The Lizabell Thread (The Elfen Woman Returns!)

[MonteCristo]

Howdy folks! Long time no hear/post/update etc. Well I've been awfully busy recently, but I thought I'd come back with a bang. Last time I left off, I was part way through Lizabell's costume, well, now I'm gonna pick up where I left off, but in the meantime I'm gonna slap this experimental image up (I did this one over the last couple of lunchbreaks) not sure what I want to do with it yet, but at some point I'm going to add some drip and splash detail. Feel free to use as wallpaper, with my blessings. I've dumped the old thread because a lot of the images were hosted from my old website, but seeing as I had no need for that any more I cancelled it. So out with the old, in with the new. Updates soon; stay tooned.


:D :cool: :ufo: :halo:

[MonteCristo]

****** attach function.... :grr:

[Gl2eEn]

oo man! i love this!! very nice work there :P

[MonteCristo]

Short and sweet there Gl2eEn, but thanks. :)

[SAPPER POPOV]

its WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaa ! lol

i like !


comments :
I think the water texture is too strech and not realistic , and , i think , it must have a deformation of the horizon water in the translucidity of the body .

Sorry for my bad english
Dsl pour mon anglais pourri ! lol



But really really nice !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i like

[lillypusher]

very nice. i like the lighting a lot.

various things like water texture, the way she looks photoshopped in - no interaction with the water (either sea/puddle or rain) are off, but i'm sure you're aware of this - as in splash and drip detail.

could u help me out with the wallpaper thing? i keep trying, but the ****** thing won't stick to my wall...

[TyKeiL]

warning warning( over critical comment enhanced by alcahol)
sorry monty but i dont like it. her head looks stretched or something, and the colourisation makes it look cheap, and the ghostly undead transparency with the pink to blue gives me the creeps, not really sure why, her eyes are staring down and teh blank expression doesnt help either,, all in all not a good display of the prowess of liza's looks(in my opinion) her blank marble look was better to me, i think its all about the expresion on her face tho(blank) thats what i dont like

on the other hand i think the text on the bottom right hand side looks amazing what with the rain behind the thing

ps: i have no problem with the production value its top notch as far as i can see.. and if you were going for the drowned elf ghost haunting some seafarers then whoohoo!! spot on,,

[MonteCristo]

Ok, good stuff guys, some excellent feedback here. Please bear in mind I've posted this in the work in progress folder, so it isn't finished, and I do value your feedback. I don't have much time on my hands to develop her costume right now, so this seemed to be a good project to work on in my lunchtimes.

After your feedback, I plan on doing the following to complete this first final piece:

1. I want to add some land mass to the distant background.

2. I want to regulate the water textures, and and add some effects to both lizabell, and the environment, to make the two sit together.

3. I want to change the aspect ratio of the shot and the lens properties, to avoid the stretched shot, that Tykeil(my constant bane;) ) was talking about.

4. I want to work liz's expression and pose to make her more dramatic.

5. Also, some volume fog and depth of field could help.

I need to keep this fairly simple, I'd like to do some much more adventurous stuff with her sometime, but it's too time consuming for me right now, so I'll keep things simple. Stay tooned.

(Oh yeah, Lillypusher, simply pick up your monitor and throw it at the wall very hard...
That's it Lilly,
Lilly...?
Lil?)

[Downup]

i must agree with the head.. BUT.. the Scene is ULTRA nice!!

How did you do t´he rain soo cool? Is it added in Photoshop or max?

[lillypusher]

*still scraping his monitor off the wall*

[Corth]

hey, that looks really cool there Monte, I definitly didn't think I'd see Lizabell like this, but it's coo!. I was so sad when you stopped updating your other thread... I cried... but now it's back, and these are tears of joy! (I might be over-exagerating, but I'm happy it's back :D ).

just one crit- there should be some refraction from the 'body' of water.

[karabo]

this is coming along very nicely but it will look even better once you have the splashes and drips.
I must agree with the previous comments about the head.

[MonteCristo]

Thx Guys, head comments definitely taken on board.

Also, Corth and Sapper Popov, good point about the refraction, I will put that into the map if I can.

Will try and get some done tonight. :)

[Mike-3DT]

crits:
I think the top part of her should be 100% opaque which at the moment she's not - you can see her trapezius muscles showing through the face at present.
There is a nice ripple effect on the upper body where she turns to water which seems to get lost further down. I suspect it's a bump effect at present - maybe consider doing it as a displacement, which combined with Corth's point of her needing refraction would make for a really convincing water effect.
For some reason her eyes & lips look grainy & almost out of focus. Not sure if that's intentional.
The water is definately too dark. It will reflect the dark sky of course but it needs to be lighter & maybe to have some diffuse colour of it's own show through. Right now it looks almost like oil.
The specular on the upper body is good & makes her look wet but for some reason it doesn't seem to go any higher than her neck. The forehead & cheeks particularly should glisten.
Lastly, I'm not sure about the pose. Maybe if she were looking directly to camera, I dunno but it seems like it should be a menacing pose, as if she is rising up from the depths, a great and terrible power but that's not reflected in the pose so much & definately not in her expression. (although I don't know if she has targets done yet.)

To tell you what I DO like about the image would take a lot longer & is pretty redundant as you don't need to alter bits that don't need it obviously. The idea itself is probably my favourite part of the image & it's conveyed very well so far. Keep going.

[Jared]

I agree with pretty much what everyone else said.

I would like to see that the water part of the body was the same material as the water below and kinda melts toghether with the body so it looks like she's originating from the water and not just standing in it and lookin all transparent.
But maybe thats not the effect you want?

[MonteCristo]

No, Jared, and Mike, you are absolutely right, I definitely do want to get a good blend together,what I'm work on right now is putting a displacement map together and blending flesh to transparent water and again to the darker more opaque mass of water.

Will update soon.

[TyKeiL]

so the idea is that she is being formed out of water? like in the abyss?

:O) and you know i love your work monte

[MonteCristo]

Yeah thats' pretty much what I'm going for Tyk, I'm trying to make some sort of Water Nymph/Siren out of her for this one, I'm not 100% sure butm, yeah I want the scene to be animated too perhaps. Only slightly though, perhaps I could make a multimedia image of it that you can move through, and look around. hmmm...

[TyKeiL]

hmm well i suggest (like otehr people)t hat having her mesh and the water mesh blend,, even though it may just eb a little.. having the highlights look like they are one piece,a chick made of water, instead of a chick in the water like it looks now,,

mabe( and i know its a littel comical) have a fish swimmign around her insides or something,,,, and if she is made of water then water wouldnt bead on her surface,, it would kind of splash into her surface

and i guess the blank expression isnt too bad,, mabe just lift her eyes so she is looking into the horison or show us what she is looking at,

i can imagine as it is now that she may be looking at something in the water thinking her watery thoughts...
and just for fun, NiPpLes
cant remember the tv show-"your wifes nipples...... :O)"

[MonteCristo]

Ok, I really want to go with this concept, and I have it in mind to animate it too. But first I need to get some certain things finished off. I've done a lot of tweaking to the mesh, and have actually completed the diffuse map, Which I was amazed to realise I hadn't completed. (This is the problem with working on projects in sporadic bursts; you forget where you last left off.) So, that's outta the way. Next thing is to reurn to the hair and to add a bump map. Then it's morph targets for facial expressions. Then it's rigging. Then I can stick her in the ocean again. This really is a never ending process, but I hope it'll be worth it.

[Emperor]

Would u mind if I did a comparison and said that thats "Stahlberg" quality u got there. Not liking doing such comparisons but I just thought thats how good I find this to bee. And oh yes...I think I'ltt be worth it. Wonderful :)

[SAPPER POPOV]

really awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

terrific !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! , excellent !

[MonteCristo]

Thanks guys! Wow Stahlberg eh? I wouldn't presume to be in that league, but well, that's what I'm aiming for. I guess this project can just go on and on. That's the great thing about 3D you can keep tweaking and tweaking until oneday you have something really special. Kumans Chinese Opera Performer proves that too. :)

[Drew Carey]

Very nice man...I like what you got going, it's pretty much perfect.
However...if I were to nit pick a little ***searches hard for something to pick*** maybe the collar bone sticks out a tad too much...and perhaps the breasts are too far apart.
Small things though.

[MonteCristo]

I'm quite tired tonite so not much of an update. Just tweaked as per Drew Carey's suggestions.

I think the breast issue is mainly a variable issue, different for different people. Plus it could also be the render angle picking up highlights. I'm definintely with you on the collarbone now you've mentioned it. How's this?

[Woody]

Really incredible. Nothing anatomically incorrect. I think there's nothing to tweak, all we can crit are just personal feelings about a perfect body.

Is she rigged now???

[Drew Carey]

You got it perfect now man.
The only other I just noticed (I looked hard ;)) are those odd stripes near the top of the leg. I could be misunderstanding this, but it looks a tad odd to me.
Here's a pic to go along:

[Daniel]

well Drew, we can see where most of your attention has been at huh?:eek:

[TheOne]

Damn!i wished i could model breastslike this!
;)

Great work! :)

[MonteCristo]

Calm down lads, you'll scare her off. Drew, I'll take a look at that later, I'm fairly sure I can deal with it using smooting groups. :)

In the meantime, guess who has her baby teeth?

I need to tweak and map 'em. I will mainly be concentrating on randomising them a bit. :) Laters.

[rubberduck]

Only one thing to say, it's looks great;) The ****** looks fine, nothing wrong with it

[Avatar-3DT]

Aldo at first I was a little dissapointed to see Lizabell leaving the ground and her warrior future for more "wet" territories and darker purposes (or should I say ghostly), I started to like the nimf ideea. She has all the qualities to do it, beauty and senzuality and this would definetly justify her nakedness.
Monte, now is the time to use those dark eyes you've tested so long ago, in the first Lizabell thread!
As for crits upon the image first posted here, adding to what was said: the water on the chest doesn't go the right direction. It flows horizontaly instead of verticaly, followin the curve of the breasts. Another problem are the waves; where is the foam? Where are the ripples around the fingers? And the pose I think should present her arched back, splashing water.
But posing is your personal choice and I beg your pardon if I broke some common sense borders.
Put some hair on her, wet hair, maybe as dark as the water she is rising from.

[Darkcloud]

Great work on the elf & the wet texture.But that water in the background doesnt look realistic.i hope you'll work more on that

[ross_coe]

great work there....nice model and textures on the bod....but i agree with darkcloud about the water in the background. apart from that....very very very cool :D

btw montecristo....I was checking out your website, and it seems to have been taken over by a petrol company :p or is my browser going nuts???

[kuman]

hey jack
lookin great man

just had one suggestion/tip

if you take a ray trace material and tilt its luminosity to a dark red, you'll obtain the reddened shade in the darkness, then if you put a falloff in the luminosity channel that's face to camera normal dependant, and that falloff goes from dark dark red to black, you'll achieve, imho, a even better shader, that will be mostly red in the edge but ultimately leads you to black or a very very dark color that will give you even greater depth in the shader.

try it out and some variants, might be a look you'll like.

-k

[tyio]

cool teeth man, try to make them more agressive like night elfe from WC III, much sharpen,and much translucide

The model is good, unless the upper of the eye (paupiere in french ??), it look like Yuna's eyes in FFX-2 (in opposing with FFx-1 one)

[Eternal10k]

Man, she looks beautiful, only one crit, and it is a question of preferences, even when the individual parts of the body look great, the whole looks a bit off proportion (looks a bit stretched in some parts or like it was attached in other), but then it may just be me....

[MonteCristo]

ross_coe: Erm this is wierd, i stopped my website a while ago, because I just wasn't ever updating it, so thought "ah well, cancel it." So now, Shell has bought it, it seems, and have a transport Photo Library on there. Bit strange.

kuman: That's some cool ideas man, I will definitely have a go with your shader tips next time I open max. Cheers James. You always have my back covered.

Avatar & Darkcloud: You are both right about the 1st image, but don't worry, I plan on working on the water and its asttributes later, the image was really to ilustrate an idea. Problem was, when I started working on it I realised i hadn't finished texturing the little darling. So page 2 of the thread is just showing, how I'm finishing her off. Thought I should add teeth, tongue and morph targets before Irig her. Then, I will finish off this image properly, hopefully before Expose 2. Worth a try. Also Avatar. I promise, once this image is done and her hair (etc,) is done, i will go back and finish off the costume, and carry on along the original route for her. This was just an easier project for me now, as I am usually too busy to work on her for long. It was starting to depress me that I had this character and seemed so far from producing a decent render to show my work off well.

Tyio: Teeth, check. I haven't textured them ye, but when I do, I shall take your comments into account.

Rubberduck: Cheers dudey. :)

Eternal10k: I think you are right. looking at the renders on page 2, I would say her arms are a tad too long. I'll check it out. :)

Thanks for the support guys. :D

[max_love4you]

hey MonteCristo-3DT,
All i can say for now is Lizabell looks hot....... man really nice modelling.......and skin texture as well...... i am sure u will add more details to tye eye texture in your final render....... well i have started modelling a female today hope it will go half as good as you cause dont have any anytomical knowledge + working form a low res picks form fineart.sk. but great work hope to see the final immage soon with all the improvements in water and materials and stuff.......

Ne0

[Avatar-3DT]

Don't worry buddy, just keep us updated. In other words keep the wolf fed and everything will be ok:D

[MonteCristo]

LOL, Avatar. "Keep the wolf fed," that's a nice expression.

Ne0 - Thanks man, be sure to post you WIP's on the forum and I'll be sure to pop in from time to time. :)

[SAPPER POPOV]

this post has nothing to do on the second page of the forum ...

So , it come back on the first now !!!!!!!!!!! lol

really awesome !!!!!! and wouaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
i like this elf woman , maybe its tooth should be more white :)

when is the update with the bow ? the short skirt ? :)))) droool

Could u post a piece of u're texture for the body :) in low résolution here ?

thx god monte ! :)

[Zergling]

All i can say: wow!

I'm not gonna comment on the first image, as that was only a concept and you've already gotten enough feedback on it. I will comment on the rest of the posts, tho.

I think the teeth are great. They are a little too white, and of course too flat (i never had my teeth filed. I used to scare kids with my canine teeth cuz they're like mutant vampire teeth. I might not be the person to listen to on the teeth...) I'd say make the canines a little pointed and make them a little more agressive. Right now they lok like Barbie's teeth (not that i'm complaining about that :D )

Okay, as for the ****** issue, it does sort of look like she's dirty or irritated from wearing something down there. Lighten up that part of the texture a little, i say. Other than that, 's fine.

you've done a great job. I wouldn't mind something pointing me back to the post you made on how you textured her. The "New UVW tutorial" that came with max5 explains just about nothing to me (and it assumes i have an options menu docked at the bottom of the edit UVWs dialog, which is nowhere to be found, so that added to my confusion) and i'm trying to learn how to texture things to make mods for (ironic, no?) WARCRAFT III!!!

okay then. good work, Monte!

[MonteCristo]

First off, Sapper thanks for the kindness mate. As requested, here is the texture.

Zergling, thanks to you also. I will take your comments on board about the teeth next time I work on Lizabell. I'm sory I can't give much feedback, Here's how I generate my texture maps:

Well the method I use is in Max 4.2 as follows.

1. On your modifier stack, add 2x edit mesh modifier. The first of these will be used to gain your coordinates, and will be deleted later, the second one is so that max remembers the UVW co-ordinates.

2. Detach each of the segments you want to ELEMENTS(not obects V IMPORTANT). In my case, I detached the whole front side of the body, the front of the head, the back of the head etc....

3. Then rotate all of these pieces to face the front.

4. Then pull all of the vertexes about so that there are no hidden faces all of the faces of each segment must be visible. This is the hardest part of the process and the most time consuming. Make sure you keep saving.

5. Once you are happy with all the pieces, drop an UVW Unwrap Modifier on the stack and go to "select face" sub object level and select all the faces of your spread out mesh. Now hit a planar map.

6. You can now use texporter to generate a template. There should be no overlapping polys and also make sure that the map is larger and roughly follows the same sort of aspect ratio as your laid out segments. Right, now save the document and keep this version.


You can now apply your texporter image, to see how it fits, you should be able to see how well it wraps. then it's on to the painting part I guess.


Hope this is of use.

Here's the map.

[Emperor]

HEZUZ...thats some good painting skills u got there man! niice texture.

[ido]

Wow, it looks very very good, nice of you to show the map so we could all learn :)

[MonteCristo]

OK, guys, this is the skin shader I'm going with for now at least, and the bump map etc... Hope it's ok. It takes forever to tweak this, mainly because the shader is so complex, that the render takes so long. I really wan to get this done, so Will move on now... :)

Kuman, is this the effect you were talking about?

[Avatar-3DT]

Did I mentioned I am inlove with her? Hum, I think I did... Doesn't matter, I'll say it again. Aldo it will certainly put to great doubt my sanity. But hey, love takes sacrifices;).

[sarN]

hey, crazy stuff you got here :D
i like the skin shader, but i think that you should make the outside part a little lighter. If you look at your hand or something, it doesnt get that dark around the edges. Well i guess that depends on the lighting lol, well anyway, its awesome, but i liked her with the blue eyes better :D

[Daniel]

The model itself to me is pretty much perfect man. But for the skin texture, I completely understand how hard it is to achieve skin, but it does appear a bit too shiny. But hell it's really awesome right now and it needs not be 100% perfect anyhow, if it is even possible, which I am not sure, lol.

[MonteCristo]

It's true, the shine map is a little bit intense at the moment. I will soften it down for the next render, but I'm gonna leave it for now. I have to finish her teeth and gums. :)

[Woody]

Much, much better now. Especially I think her face it's really better that way. Can you make a little forum-tutorial about the shader??? I think it will help a lot of people... or almost it will help me... :D :D :D

[goat]

montte realy love this lady. the only crit can see is mabey just pump up the bump on her lips,...and mabey on the skin. but I know how tough a skin shader can be. Great Job man on everything.:D

[MonteCristo]

That's funny Goat, I was really messing with the bump and the first pass I made seemed to be too much bump, so I reduced it. now I see your point. I go back and forth all the time man. :)

Thanks everyone for the support. :D

[goat]

ya i hear ya. it's tough trying to juggle it all. but take a break then go back refreshed. that always helps. looking at something for too long can sometimes do more bad than good./

[rjsmal]

i followd your forum and i must say it's nice but what are you going to do with the character ???

[MonteCristo]

Well, that's the big question isn't it. Basically, I have until the end of January to finish a proper image, so I'm going to do an image along the lines of the front image. I'm interested in making Lizabell into a Siren, a greek mythological nymph who would sing to the seas and entice sailors to their dooms. I think she would be cool as that. I'm looking forward to it, making a costume and hair etc... But I am determined to get her right before I move onto those stages. Things should move a lot more quickly now as I have a deadline for the first time. :)

[Borg]

Wow......:eek: :eek: :eek:

Excelent model MonteCristo-3DT, this thread inspired me to attempt a realistic model.

I know woody said this before but......since theres a tutorial writing frenzy from that free cd offer...um, how about a shader tut:p :D.........I know ur probably stuck for time so don't worry too much bout it....thought i'd just ask any way:p

I realy like that surreal look

[ido]

she is so beautiful :eek: :lurve: the last face render is amazing:)

i have a question about your mapping method because i'm trying to unwrap my cow now :D

2. Detach each of the segments you want to ELEMENTS(not obects V IMPORTANT). In my case, I detached the whole front side of the body, the front of the head, the back of the head etc....
do you do this on the first or second edit mesh modifier?

[MonteCristo]

Hope you don't mind, but i will lift a piece of description from an earlier thread of mine saves writing it all again:

The first edit mesh modifier is the one where you will work with the mesh and pull it to pieces. Imagine if you only used the one modifier. You would have to delete it which would take you back to your original Mesh. problem is you can't check your progress.

Remember the stack should look like this:

+Edit Mesh
+UVW Unwrap
+Edit Mesh <-----------{ This is the first one that you pull apart.
Editiable Mesh

by having the second edit mesh after the UVW Unwrap you can hide the first Edit mesh and watch the model snap back together. If you apply your texporter image you can see how well it looks.

Borg and Ido - I'm glad you like her. :)

[Jason-Lavoie]

That looks like the spokes model for Gefore card... i forget which one.. man thats hot... i can't belive i am saying that about a fircken 3d model... lol

[ido]

Montecristo I have another question if you dont mind :), did you unwrap her with Iterations 2 ? Will the map stretch strangely if I unwrap her with iterations 1 and apply a meshsmoth modifier in the end?

[MonteCristo]

I didn't unwrap her with any iterations, I unwrap Unsmoothed, and apply the meshsmooth later.

Jason_Lavoie - Yeah, you ain't the first person to say that, she's turning out pretty nice I think.

[Rinne]

Wow, this is really good stuff:eek:

great work :)

[RickStefani]

She is awsome. I am so glad to see her return. I was unwrapping after smooth up intill a while ago. Being most book taught I missed a little check box. When I used to smooth I have the check box check that says to keap internal UV geometry. The map would get all twisted. :mad:

Awsome work. Have you atarted the hair yet? I remember when we all did the paint the hair on Lizabell. She is HOT.

[ido]

thanks for your help MonteCristo :)

[Avatar-3DT]

Hey, Monte, everything is nice and dandy, but when some update?
Just teasing you:D . Merry Christmas buddy!

[MonteCristo]

Merry Xmas too you too, and to all my forum buddies!

[Borg]

Thanks for all ur help Monte :D

Merry Christmas:wave:

[Corth]

Merry Christmas! Hey Monte (when did you join the 3D-T team? GJ!) When are we going to see Lizabell's costume? :)

[MonteCristo]

Borg - You're very welcome. Merry Xmas.

Corth - I've been a mod for about 2 years at least now. Thanks. :) I will be sorting the costume out soon. I recently had a real problem where my work was accidentally formatted from my computer so this week I've been actively engaged in recovering it. :mad: I lost a lot of the recent Lizabell work, so I'm catching up againand when I've moved ahead of my last update, I wil post some more.

[kuman]

hey jack
that's what i was talking about man
its lookin good

i guess my only suggestion left on how you can see the shader work even better is to instead of having what appears to be a forward spot light, define a light side and dark side of the face in terms of illumination and where those two areas meet. this is an idea i learned from stahlberg's tutorial. i think you'll really see the shader "shine" under these circumstances

looking forward to your updates man

-k

[RickStefani]

Ya, I was just reading that. HERE (http://optidigit.com/stevens/shadetut.html) I am so sorry for loosing your work. Both you and Ido. What sad times.

[Jason-Lavoie]

She is very beautiful :)

great jobe dude, are you in the 3d modeling business or going to be (college and univerity) i want to become a 3d programmer for a game company... he he great stuff, i think you shoudl send that pic to NaVida and say that should be like her sister or somthing... lol

Very nice

[TyKeiL]

merry christmas monte :O), now... what can i pick on?...... searching.. searching............nothing

everytime i look at the pic ithink she's giving me a little smile as if to say " alright whats up this time?" and i have to smile back and give her the innocent nothing =P

sorry using my imagination.... flirting with a static cg character ( i feel so used.)

she's looking great

[mushroomgod]

havent read all this thread so please tell me to shut up:)

I like everything about it apart from the ears, while pointy ears are cool having them stand out like thay are in youre last image is not so cool.....human ears are (normaly) pinned back against the head, In my opinion its better design to have then more to the side.
more like hobits or elfs from LOTR

other than that its realy cool :D

[Borg]

i like the ears pointing out like that:D....but thats just me

[MonteCristo]

Ok, here's a shot with the hair on. I like it, and I'm sticking with it, so now ta daaa! I can make a costume!!!! At damn last!

[TyKeiL]

ooken ell mate she looks good..

th hair really tops her off nicely

[Daniel]

entirely up to you, but I still want to say it :o imho I find the hair looks too flat, like it has no volume, especially on the top of the head, would just be a shame that you concentrated on the body so much but left the hair no up to par.

[SAPPER POPOV]

ugh , but how did u make that ??? opacity map ?

really impressive

[Drew Carey]

Have to agree With Daniel on this. Though the hair does look technically realistic, I would say it would look better and probably more convincing if it wasn't so flat on the face. More volume and body to the hair (perhaps make it more wavey), anything to make it less strict as a shape. Just my opinion though...

Keep it up!

[TyKeiL]

dont touch the hair i think it looks great, these poor peoples dont understand the level of controll which can be achieved by a good hairdresser,,,

i love the hair , i love it,, and thats saying something, hair is something special to me i come from a background of hairdressers,,

[Avatar-3DT]

SWEET GOD!
Ok, I'll say nothing more before I will be considered a freack. Remember guys, the hair is still in work. So changes will surely come. I watch Monte for a long time now to now that he is hardly satisfied by his work.

[Drew Carey]

Wow Tykeil, we may have different opinions, but I don't consider myself a poor person...:( .
Anyways Monte, here are a few pics to show what I mean:
http://www.hairbooks.com/img/big/family-album-12.jpg
http://arsdata.com/mixedcompany/short1.jpg
http://www.worldofhair.com/images/Style/Beautiful%20Women/198001.jpg
http://www.henkel.com/int_henkel/schwarzkopf_com/binarydata/en/images/ACF6A0.jpg
Hope the pics show, and you gain some benefit from this...

[Corth]

Cool Monte, I hope the new costume is as cool as the last one :)

[TyKeiL]

tis ok drew, i have differring opinions than the majority of the human race
and i was using poor for fun rather than for truth

its just a difference of opinion when it comes to hair, because its the most malleable of substances on the human body it can become anything you want it to,

i was just bagging peoples opinion that its not technically realistic because hair can be so constructed its not funny so when ti comes down to hair, its only an opinion call as to what looks good

[MonteCristo]

Howdy guys, thanks for the kind words/refs. I agree, the hair could do with some work, but I shall leave it for now, as I am eager to get working on the costume, here's a sketch I mocked up, just to give me a starting point. I want to add more to it, but I figured I can wait until I have it modelled, and textured in the basic form, and I can see where we are then. :)

I want the costume to be sexy, but practical. Lizabell is IMO quite a sexy character, and I think it would be a shame to lose that. Also, I am definitely want to head as far away from the Lord of the Rings as possible.

I've started modelling, but I will update, when I have built something substantial. :)

[Jason-Lavoie]

Very nice, i think she woudl look better with like a blonde though, but that means you would have to chnage her costume, so don't he he, VERY nice!

[MonteCristo]

Jesus! you are quick Jason! lol. Thanks mate, glad you like it.

[max_love4you]

cool work,
well the hair is not exactly the kind of i like but they are good are you goin to build up layers or it or leave it like that looks mapped hair over planes and stuck to the head. any ways about the her dress why dont you give her a bit wariour look it may look good say add a sword a bow and an arrow plus have you seen old japanies samuria movies that kind of costume would look great on her i guess if you want a refrence of what i am telling about then their is one bit in animatrix with that girl under training with some guy old samuri clothes horeses and the bitry stuff cant remember the episode name but any ways i am talking the clothes kidna that style wich the guy wore with helmet and tow very long horns kind of thing attached and a armour or some thing

well i wish i could do even half good modelling and texteruing you do any ways this was just an suggestion not a ctitict so you can add those stuff if you want

Neo

[goat]

hey man that looks great. I would keep the dark hair. I like the style.needs more shine mabey. but I ike it i won' bug ya about it...for now. this is really a great peice man. i like this direction much more than the water one. thumbs up brutha!

[Jason-Lavoie]

I am picky arn't I... he he wow that is cool, anyways yeah dude, its looks SUPER amazing!

[ido]

hi Montecristo,
first I want to say that I just love your work :)
I know you didn't ask if we like the costume design or not but because Lizabell is so perfect and because I was following your work on her since the beginning I feel like It will be ok if I tell you what I think (I hope you will not get mad :o ).
so here it is (its only my opinion and I also asked my girlfriend but you know you can just ignore us :D ), I realy don't like the costume design(sorry again for being harsh), and I think Lizabell deserves better, the upper part of the shirt looks nice but everything under it looks a little cheap (in my humble opinion). you worked so hard on her body and face and I think you should work as much on her costume design, maybe you can try some other designs before you start modeling, maybe you can look in some fashion magazins or in fashion internet sites to get some ideas, and show your designs to girls to ask them what they think :)

or you can just do what you think and forget that I said anything :D
keep up the awesome work

[MonteCristo]

Well, I think you have a point Ido. I'm hitting a brick wall at the moment, and I figured, I would start this costume and see where it took me. I really want to make something practical and sexy for her, but what that would be, I don't really know. I've attached the first Idea I had, which was more the adventurer image. I think I'll press on with my current Idea, and see if Ican mak it look a little less cheap. :)

[nendo]

one thing troulbes me. why did you do thetexture for the entire body when only so little is going to be shown

[grouse]

yeah i agree with nendo...also there isn't really that much point in doing such high detail UV's if all your gonna do is cell shade.

Don't get me wrong, it's looking good so far, i just don't see where your going with this!

[Jason-Lavoie]

MONTE, perfect, keep it like that, but cell shaded... no no, make it AMAZING, like that is So cool... YEAH!

[SAPPER POPOV]

hello monte ,

sorry , but i'must say that i didn't like this cloths concept.
Too much Quake , and too much basic . too much too much .

I think , for my part , she will be better with medieval fantastic cloch , her futuristic looks will be intersting with ancient clothes.

futur look + futuristic cloth , is just futuristic , its just quake .

I suggest u something like this :)
but it's just my opinion , and u're concept is pretty nice :) , i just think this cloths concept doesn't work with lizabell

[tyio]

love redyan :lurve:

[MonteCristo]

Nendo - The reason that I have completed the entire model with all UV's is because Lizabell is a character with whom I wish to have complete freedom. If I was to create a mesh with all the clothes on then I would never be able to change the costumes later. Also, in future, it would be possible for me to use elemetns of lizabell for other projects.

Grouse - I don't understand what you mean. The images I have posted, where just painted over a render, as a concept sketch. Something to flesh out an idea BEFORE I model it. I have no intention of doing a cell-shade.

Jason - Thanks for the support, but yeah, I'm not cel-shading her. :)

Sapper, I kinda know what you mean. Whilst the image you have posted is brilliant, I also think it's a little cliche too. There are lots of those warrior women type of images out there, and I kinda wanna go for a new angle, hence my dilemma. It's true the, sketches I have posted are too basic, but I plan on making the actual costume more detailed than that. For me, the skimpy clad model would be too easy.

tyio - eh?

[tyio]

:D

it's the name of Soa's girl, Redyan ;)

[MonteCristo]

Oh, I see. :) Well anyway thanks for all the insights guys, I'm gonna get back to the drawing board, and try to solve this thing. :)

Max_love4You -I think there might be something in what you suggested. :)

[Avatar-3DT]

I can try to sketch something if it helps you M.

[Downup]

what did you do to make that hair?

plugin? or mesh:roll:

[MonteCristo]

Thanks for the offer Avatar, but I reckon I more or less figured out what I'm gonna go with now. :) I will update when the basic form is modelled. Thanks very much for the offer though, 'tis greatly appreciated. :D :halo:

Downup - The hair is modelled in a series of mesh patches, which are then applied with a hi-res opacity map. :)

[Leo Vincent]

I dont likte it at all, is looks very plastic and boring.
I seems like you got no interest in making images.
you just try to impress with realistic rendering and
painting.

[Renzsu]

Originally posted by Leo Vincent
I dont likte it at all, is looks very plastic and boring.
I seems like you got no interest in making images.
you just try to impress with realistic rendering and
painting.

geesh.. :roll:

[ido]

I like the last design a lot better than the first one :cool: :)
I can't wait to see where you are going with this, but I will be patient :dance:
don't mind this leo vincent guy, who does't know what he is talking about :grr:

[MonteCristo]

Leo - Yeah you are probably right mate.

Ido - Thanks for the crits last time, you really got me thinking a lot, but I'm not gonna update again, until I've got something concrete on the costume done. :) At the moment, the direction I'm going in is a highly modified version of the first image. hope to show y'all soon. :)

[Avatar-3DT]

Monte, don't keep us in suspence buddy!

Leo, I'm most curiouse to find out if you would be able to make something that would vie with MonteCristo's work.

[MonteCristo]

Well, Avatar, I wasn't gonna post anything for a bit, but seeing as it's you asking (and I know what happens when you get impatient. They wouldn't like you when you're impatient ;) hee hee.)

Here's where I'm at tonight. It's just the basics, mind, no bells and whistles yet. It's going to be a costume that takes elements of the original concept I posted, with a lot more additions. But you'll have to wait for the all to be revealed... :D

[Avatar-3DT]

May I sugest laces, lots of laces around the thigh?And boots over the knee.
And yeah, I know I'm not pretty when I get nervouse:D

[Corth]

Woo Hoo! Go Monte, Go Monte, it's your birthday *Makes Bass sounds and does a white boy dance* :cool:

[ido]

it sure is going to be sexy, it already is :D

[novoAlias]

hmm, i really like the character, are you sticking with the elf idea? maybe im just an lotr fanatice but id way prefer the light leather/archer style of thing... or maybe something like this...
http://www.worldofwearableart.com/images/persephone.jpg
:p...
anyway wot im saying is the ideas u guys have seem a little goth and/or fiddly for wot an elf would wear... anyway thats just me :D.. so keep going! and give her a curvy sword or something :D

[Woody]

Niiiiiceeee... I really want to see her with all the costumes, it can be an incredible model (even more than now). But how are you gonna move all this clothes??? will you have to do another time the skining for every piece of cloth or there's a way to use the skining that the body already has???

[TyKeiL]

well after the first sketch i kinda wanted to wash my hands of all of this and not reply any more,


then i saw you were just playing with ideas so i let it go,

then i saw you actually started making the first idea,, and its chicago... and that theme i particularly despise, so im sorry mate, i will be gone from here untill i have something nice to say

i havent had any technical issues with your model since the flow thing, and i dont think i ever will have technical issues your that good with it, just style issues,,

and its whatever floats your boat,, so enjoy see you when i like her again, ciao!.

[MonteCristo]

Firstly, I'm sorry to hear that Tykeil. But I really, can't please everyone, and if I try to do so, I won't get anywhere. Wash your hands of this by all means, but I'm not working up the first design at all. There are some elements, mainly the support corset that I like and I wanted to include these in the model. but the current Wip kinda, looks like sexy lingerie and nothing more. As it develops, it will become more clear what I'm doing, and you should see the lingerie image evolve into something else. I've decided not to post the concept image that I've worked up, as it seems to cause confusion, of a cel-shaded nature whenever I do this. I have to admit, your post is most depressing to me, and makes me want to delete the whole project and bury my head in the sand. :mad: :( :cry: :hurt: :ugh:

[goat]

hey monte don't fret. It would be a shame if you deleted this thread. It's in a WIP form everyone should realize that. bouncing ideas off people is a great way to grow. some people may not like it, oh well. your 100% right about not pleasing everyone. you can't. try just pleasing yourself my man. we can just help but if you like something you go for it. I personally would HATE to see you stop this model, It's a great model. And i dig how the corset is coming along I'm not just saying that to blow smoke up your a$$. more sketches would be cool too. some people may get confused but you didn't so keep going. well I could go on for ever man. remember it's all constructive criticism. well keep at it!

[Corth]

yeah Monte, chear up! you still got us faithful's following ;)

I personally like the first idea, it's got fantasy, victorian and goth written all over it, and those are the greatest styles... ever :D

And just think of all the people you'll be letting down, knowing their hero has quit because of a few bumps in the road! You gotta help us little people :)

[ido]

I totally agree with goat and Corth :)
and as I said I can't wait to more updates here (I check all the time to see If you updated) so work work work :wave: :shout: :)

[Mr.T]

wow, awesome work (the model and texture are very impressive)
:wave: :wave:

[TyKeiL]

i think, i have to learn that making a post like that may have detrimental effects on people

and i will use it as a good example for what not to say in the future,, sorry monte i meant no harm,,, my words may have been a bit strong for the feelings i felt, tone them down about 95% and that probably more to the point.

i know you will do a wonderfull job on her whatever style you choose and her body is definatly perfect.

its funny that most people can agree on a body shape, but the asthetics are something different.

:o i dont want you to stop either cause liek corth i always check this thread for updates when i see it.

[Mr.T]

eeerrrr... well.. if i can suggest something.. hm.. don't put too much cloth on her.. it would be a terrible sacrifice :D

[Mike-3DT]

Here's a thought - stay true to yourself and your vision Jack. You have the skills and artistic ability to make this the way you want it. It's already one of the best cg characters I've seen, just bring her home now.

[MonteCristo]

Goat - Man you always have my back buddy, and my respect too mate.

Corth - It seems we are completely on the same page buddy. I am piecing together my own thing here, and to do it, I am picking my own favourite elements. cheers.

Ido - You too have always been very helpful and I totally appreciate it buddy. I won't be scrapping anything, I'm gonna stick with what I know to be best, and will be finishing this baby off. :)

MR T - Thanks for the look in. Lizabell is gonna have a fairly practical but sexy costume, and well, you've already seen her with all her clothes off, so I guess it won't matter what she wears from now on. :halo:

Mikey - You sure know how to make a guy feel better buddy. You are a bit like Mickey in the "Rocky" series. "Get up! Cuz Mikey loves ya!"

Tykeil - I'm not sure where to start, but yes, you do need to rein comments like that in. I don't mind that you may not like the direction Lizabell is taking, what depressed me at the time (I was already having a sucky day) was that you took it all personally. In effect what you said to me was "I hate what you are doing so much now! You've ruined a perfectly good piece of work, and I am so disgusted by it that I refuse to acknowledge you any more!" Yeah, that's a fairly harsh criticism I think even Stahlberg would waver at that one. :) From a stranger, I wouldn't really have cared, but seeing as you've been around this project since the beginning, it was unexpected to say the least.

Unexpected... But useful, in a twisted sense. What I realised today was something that I advise you and every aspiring artist to remember when they are feeling down about their work after criticism. YOU HAVE TO STAY TRUE TO YOUR OWN INTEGRITY. You are the artist, this is your thing, and you must do it your way. How the hell can any artist expect people to understand what they are creating? My image of how I see Lizabell is maybe 5% of what she will eventually become. It is a cloudy and fragmented image, and as an artist, my dilemma is trying to bring that 'sense of purpose' into focus. But it's hard for me to achieve, and as a result, it's near impossible for any of you guys to see it too. You can only get what I give you.

My concept sketches were a fine example of this. I posted these as a direction, they were simple blocks of single-shaded colour, designed to convey a costume form. People seemed to see them as finished products in themselves, but the images were not. I got comments about cel-shading, even though that was never in question, nor a consideration. You got "chicago" out of it. Again, this was far from my intention, but looking back on it, I can see how you'd come to that conclusion. It would have been nice to have had a comment like Ido's.

Something like: "Sorry Monte, but I think it needs a bit of work, at the moment it seems to me that it's too over the top, it feels a bit "chicago" for my liking. Well that's what I get anyway." Here, I can read what you have said, and I can tone the design down a bit. I can remove the billowing sleeves, and maybe rethink the leggings. That's constructive, at first glance it might be frustrating, but I wouldn't question it, unless of course, the "chicago" look was what I was aiming for. :) Which, quite rightly, it isn't (It really really isn't) :D Ido's expression of it looking cheap, was what made me really think about toning it down.

Sorry this is turning into an essay, but I think this may be a useful lesson for a lot of people, including myself. :)

Now , what seems to have happened, with you, and continues to happen with other people too, is you see Lizabell, a naked undirected model. She has the potential to be ushered in unlimited directions. Naturally, you have found one in your head and it is how you think it should be done. However we differ. The main reason for much of this is that Lizabell is an elf. I won't go into why she became an elf early on in the project (long story) but she did. At first glance most people see an elf and they think "Dungeons and Dragons", or "Lord of the Rings". Tolkien was not the inventor of elfs, dark-elves, dwarves, ents, or even goblins really. These were his interpretations of elements primarily from norse, germanic and celtic mythologies; the rich tapestry of ancient european mythology, and what a brilliant job he did :D However, because of these products, especially the recent LOTR trilogy, these interpretations have become the "true" image of those myths, they have sunk into the collective conciousness , and they are the clear tangible definitions of these terms. We could draw the same conclusion from the myth that cavemen used to drag their women back to the cave by their hair. But again, we have no evidence to support this theory. More likely this was a comic image developed during more recent machoistic times, and it has stuck in our subconciousness as the behaviour of our ancestors.

My point is this, just as Santa's elves are an iterpretation of elves, Lizabell is my interpretation, of a more "modern" elf. She no more belongs in Tolkein's world as she does secretly fixing the shoes of an elderly shoemaker (I assume you've all heard that tale). As Corth has spotted, Lizabell is an amalgam of elements that appeal to me. I like beauty, I long to make something beautiful. I really like the colour red. I really think that short modern hair style is sexy (although I agree I need to work on it and get it more true to life). I really like gothic courtesan style lingerie. I like a lot of elements from 17th-18thCentury dress. I want her to be actiony, but I don't want her to be a typical elf warrior. I like Ivy in Soul Calibur. I like the film "The Brotherhood of the Wolf" and "Plunkett and Macleane." I like Stormy Skies and roaring spitting seas. I like delapidated castle ruins. All of these things and many more moosh together to form my vision of Lizabell. I don't want to make another elf from the "Forgotten Realms" They have been done before, extremely well, why should I try to do it again? Instead, I must stay true to my integrity, and make what I feel will work. And I can only hope that enough people, like the same things as me, and enjoy it too. :) If not I hope they can say: "That's quite cool".

Anyway, I hope you haven't read this and thought I was shouting at you, I wasn't. :D I would be truely dissappointed if you didn't stick around, as you've been about since day one. All I am asking from you, and anyone else, is to put your own vision of how this should be aside. And just help me with comments that are actually helpful. You once picked me up on the flow of my piece that was really helpful. It's that kind of feedback I need. technical stuff, or stuff that as a viewer of my work, you feel is confusing to the eye. You know? Anyway, that's my massive lecture over, and I must say I feel a lot better, and feel motivated to get this piece done as well as I can.

Stay tooned. (if you like :o)

[Corth]

Well said Monte.

Now about those poofy sleaves... maybe not in an action outfit, but maybe with her evening wear? :) and Brotherhood of the Wolf was an awesome movie, I have the DVD, but none of my friends seem to like it. At least now I know someone else in the world likes it, yay! :)

You can bet I'll stay tuned, there is nothing more that I like than seeing someone's vision come to life!

[Borg]

hey Monte,
i love this elf, i havent commented much because i don't have any crits, But i'v been following this thread for ages and i'm glad ur sticking with it:)

keep up the excelent work

[Avatar-3DT]

Wow, a real speach Monte my man! You are right, an artist must keep his integrity and I remember how iritate were you when everybody said Lizabell is an elf. I remember you even created a new race just to go against everybody:)
No matter what you do a great job. I do agree with you about integrity but I think crits are a good way to shake down the trestle which you tend to climb on. It's good for us.
I like the way you think and how complexity you give to your ideeas. Keep it up my man, you are an true and complete artist.

Corth, the Brotherhood of the Wolfes was a great movie my friend! So here, you found another "wolf" fan. :D

[Mr.T]

MonteCristo-3DT: hem.. the way you answer me make me feel like an obsessed teen :roll:

haha :D

[Corth]

Yay Avatar! that makes 2 people I know :)

I can't wait to see what Monte comes up with, I know his last costume looked really good, too bad he lost it :(

[Avatar-3DT]

He tweaked Lizabell for so long to make her perfect that I have no doubt that, whatever he decided to dress her with, its gonna be great. So I wait to be amazed.

[MonteCristo]

Well it's about time I updated. Last weekend was a total washout, Every time I renderes, it hung up on me. So I replaced the motherboard this week. Anyhow, I'm gonna really nail this sucka all weekend, so hopefully, I should make some good progress. I've dropped my marble texture on this to show the geometry more clearly. There's still a longway to go yet, but we'll get there. Stay tooned! :D

Thanks for your continued support.

<Wonders, whether Tykeil will peek. ;) >

[Borg]

Cool, i like it...but imo i think the armour on the top of the bicept would look better with a bit more shape, instead of just a rectangle.....................but thats just me:D

[ido]

I love her new hair MonteCristo:) and the modeling of the costume is awesome, I can't wait to see the costume completed

[MonteCristo]

You are right Borg, the armour does need to be more complex. The plan at the moment is to add other pads, which are all strapped together. We'll see if it still looks to simple when I've gotten that far.

Thanks Ido, glad you're liking it so far mate, You're quick off the mark, as usual.

[MariusvZyl]

POSER

No seriously. To see such dedication and thoughtfullness go into one character model is really an example few can match-(see MMiller's aircraft among others). And with the oodles of talent you seem to generate, if it looks anything like the picture in your head it will be impossable to look kak.

And even though your new avatar somehow makes me uneasy, I can't wait to see her in the fullness of your vision. (That means textured 'n stuff too. Ok, Right.)
:D

[Avatar-3DT]

Awsome, simply awsome. The possibilities this character offer are almost limitless! Go Monte, go!
As a sugestion, for the arm armor you could make plates binding one over the other in one arm protection instead of just a single metal plate. And I don't know what you have instored for the legs but may I suggest an ornated loin cloth that will show her beautiful legs yet will cover her panties?:D

[Jason-Lavoie]

I WANNA CRIT, lol arn't ya happy monte, he he

Man it looks so good, now the one thing (or a couple, if i go back and take a good look at the pic) is once your done the torso armor, i think it would look really sweet if you had like a dress (not a full dress, i mean like a skrit... or somthing) to cover the legs, but have like a nice "elvish" long sword hanging on a belt thats like sliding down on her hip. And maybe, for kicks, add like a robin hood hat to her, and like a feather, maybe a nice WHITE feather, with some gold hints to it.

The thing si, you have to make her look beautiful and classy (CHECK) but make her seem like she can really kick ass, but caring!

Good stuff, and have fun with modeling the rest dude, its fun to experiment with new ideas!

[rubberduck]

Very nice!:D Can't wait to this baby textured

[Woody]

Looking better!!

The armor looks a little strange now, but it's obious that you have not finished, so I'm not gonna say nothing about it yet. But I can see the polys in her underpants, and they look a little rigid. Are metalic underpants????

And the hair looks better than the last one, but a little strange cause there's a space betwen the layers of hair, but I supose it will be better with texture... But is that modeled??? Or there's an opacity map now???

[Gl2eEn]

jeez dude! i love the clothe, armor type.. i will be waiting for updates :D

i remember me telling u great work, humm.. well ill say it again

great work there, its a pretty long project isnt it? :p

[TyKeiL]

/me peeks ;o)

well what can i say exept marvelous, the corset looks nice, and i sort of see how the sketch was supposed to be interpreted in the first place.

i just cleaned my room a ****load, and i threw away a scan of the rogue from the diablo1 manual, Liza kinda reminds me of that atm. in idlement /me wonders what kind of environment she will be in.

thinking about it more, you could probably get usefull hints from people who live in specific regions as to what particular items are usefull to have on a person when travelling. or whatever.

im looking forward to future installments :O)

[Avatar-3DT]

:roll: Update? :) Update? :( Update! :grr: UP-DAAAAATE!!!
:D :D :D

[TheOne]

update. :mad:

[novoAlias]

heh i like that u went back to ur old avatar, tho i dont get why u made ur avatars bigger? just bacause u can? :D
but anyway, UPDATE! just because threedy is back!!
btw good work, even if i didnt like the design at first i think yopu will pull it off :D /me hopes you do another version

[Rinne]

Looks so....great.

Wow, I love it all the way, cool clothing.

[MonteCristo]

Heh heh, Howdy guys. Thanks for the support as always :)

Well, it's been a long tedious wait for the forums to be up and running, but here we are, and we are happy to be back. Should all be running a lot more smoothly now. So here's the update, I guess you'll have to switch back and forth to see how things have changed since last time. You may notice the detail added to the corset. That's my current area of work at the moment. Also the bicep straps are under way, these are basically, simple noisless tool straps, with lock picks knifes and other tools. As you can see I've started on a few of these. The knickers are crap, but are standing in for now, and will be used as a basis for the actual garment that will be revealed in due time. What else? Not much I guess. Oh yeah, I've had a complete remake of my computer so I should be able to get more done now. Yay!

Oh yeah Blackwolf, the avatars are so we as mods or more obviously the people to contact if there are problems. Also, we thought this was a more proffesional more 3dtotal kinda look :) It's good to see the wyrm-hunter back in the saddle. :)

Laters.

[Avatar-3DT]

Tremendouse details! I realy like the hair and I already imagine what an opacity map will do. The weapons look good too aldo too simple and "human-like". But awsome job overall! And I'm really glad threedy start working again, I really missed it!

[rubberduck]

Looks great!... but what is that little twig thing?:o

[MonteCristo]

Hey Avatar, I wouldn't call those things weapons, they are more like tools. The weapon comes later, and will be far more fancy. :D

RubberDuck, it's my own fair interpretation of a skeleton key.

[Corth]

The straps for her shoulder pads look like their too.... hmmm...

well, the bottom ones on the inside look too... static? and the outside ones look too... clothy?.

hmm.. well, they look too bent for leather straps anyway :)

and that's my critique for the day!

so when's the nickers update? :D

[MonteCristo]

Corth mate, I'm not sure I understand youur crit, but wanna know what you mean, I don't suppose you could draw some circles and notes to show what you mean could you? Cheers buddy :D

[Corth]

np monte, I can't think of a way to explain it that well...

let me try again.
Left=direction strap goes
Right=direction I think the strap should take (minus the wobblies)

it just looks to me like the strap takes on too much of a curve.

let me know, if not, i'll try to find a different way to explain it :)

[ColeKindred]

I can see this taking a really nice direction. I'm not sure where you're planing on going with this, but right now I feel like the armor and cloth on the chest and waist has too much weight or thicknes in comparison with what you currently have on the sholders. Perhapes a cape with a collar or just bigger sholder pads would balence out the comp of the character. Again I don't know where you're going with this so you might have already thought of that. Just looking at the character as is. Keep it up.

[MonteCristo]

Corth -- Thanks buddy, I 'm very glad of your assitance, and I agree totally with what you say. Next time I work on that area, I'll sort it :)

Cole -- Lizabell's outfit is more for stealth/action than warrior type. Therefore, the armour is actually going to be leather and other lightweight materials such as Papiermache, like in the samurai outfits. However, you may be right, and perhaps this should all be measured a little bit. Thanks for the insight.

Anyway, for now, Lizabell is on hold, while I work on my novel instead. I switch between the two to keep myself motivated. This is why I tend to have periods of inactivity. Stay tooned!

[Corth]

I hope you don't get writers block Monte :)

[sarN]

the twig thing kinda reminds me of a lockpick. This is awesome monte, im really glad you found a style that you like too. This one is different and looks great :D
Can't wait until its all textured and finished!

[rjsmal]

he as said it's a nice model very nice man 4 real but one thing looks a little strange and thats the arms they look to small for the body or maybe that's my eye's playing tricks but i like the model.
peace

[Avatar-3DT]

Good luck Monte, my fellow writter! May you be granted vision and metaphors at discretion!

[MonteCristo]

Well, I've been away from this thread for a while now, just writing my book. So, now I'm sick of that again and its time for me to get back to some 3D. So here's the armour progress. As you can see it's starting to take shape. I enjoy playing with asymmetry a lot and this kinda shows that, I guess. I'm trying to keep things detailed but fairly clean so I can really have fun with the texturing process. The piece I'm working on now will be part of a single armed piece that is designed to protect her from the weapon that I'm designing for her, but that will have to be a surprise. :)

Stay tooned!

[Borg]

wow...thats looking excelent as usual, no crits from me :)

[Avatar-3DT]

Yupeeeee, he's back world! Nice piece of armor you have there Monte! So, you've been working behind our backs hm?:D
Glad to see you back with Lizabell my man!

[Vertigo]

This is really great looking work Monte. I applaud you. I love how elegant she looks, yet I know she has all the skills of a warrior. To me that adds this sort of alluring dynamic quality to her character. The direction you are going with the clothing/armour is perfect. I do have a question for you though. On the corset, have you thought about adding some wrinkles to where the lace ties through the corset? To me, that lace would be tied fairly tight and it seems that over time it would pull and warp that part of the corset out of shape a little. I tried to illustrate my point, rather poorly I might add. But I hope you get the idea. Anyway, just an idea I thought I'd pass your way. Everything else seems dead on, you truely have an engaging character here.

[MonteCristo]

Borg - Cheers Monsieur. I've been keeping any eye on your thread too, but haven't critiqued much as I think you've been developing well.

Avatar - You better believe it buddy! ;~)

Veritgo - There are several areas, like the one you are suggesting that need some attention. A while back, Corth also pointed out the belt connecters to the breastplates. These are both areas that need tweaking. What I was planning on was adding some brass ringlets where the laces intersect with the corset. I think you are right though, these will need to generate some tug force. I will store that in my "to do" list.

While I'm at it, here are some crits from me:

1. I'm not happy with th e nose shape on the armour face.
2. The Face guard is not high enough; it needs to protect Lizzy more.
3. The low border of the big shoulder plate does not fit well to the rest of the armour because it follows the same angular contour of the rest of the shoulder plate. Perhaps a rounded approachj would work better.

[Corth]

Welcome back to us 3Ders Monte :)

I was gonna say you hadn't done anything with that strap, and crit your #3 as well, but I couldn't think of a way to say it that well. You do my work for me :D

[Phynius Gauge]

Good job dude, she rocks :) .

[Vitor]

Nice to see you working again on this :)
She looks amazing so far.

The only thing that I don't like much is the face in her arm armour :(

[MonteCristo]

Howdy Corth and Phynius, thanks for the greets guys. :)

Vitor - Interesting. What don't you like about it? If it's the fact that its there at all, then you are gonna hate what I'm building next ;)

[Vitor]

No, I like the idea of the face :) I just don't like much how it looks now. That smile doesn't fit with the armor, and the nose seens strange. ;)

[Woody]

Hey Monte, nice to see Lizabell updated another time. The armour is really great, but the face (of the armour) didn't convince me at all... the nose looks a little boxy, and the eyes looks strange to. But this is just to crit something, cause the overall it's really great.

[MonteCristo]

I think you're all right about the face. It's tricky. I think I need to strike a bit of a balance because I don't want to make it too realistic and have it competing with Lizabell. It needs to remain ornamental and therefore hand made. But i guess I can take it a bit further. Thanks guys! I'll update soon. :)

[Iron Boot]

I like it and think its amazing. Tykeil can take his head and shove it in the dirt becuase he has no respect for artistic license. This isnt his work so he can belly ache somewhere else.

I just saw this thread today and must say some people must be jealous. Leo for example. How can he say that you dont like making images and just try to impress. Hey these forums wouldn't exist if people didnt like to impress.

So I say your model kicks ass.

[rubberduck]

Nice to see an update on this thread;) Looks great, you have already pointed out some things that needs to be tweaked(like the breastplate straps and corset), so waiting for next update.

What are you going to do about the breast plate where the front of the breasts sticks out? You could make a wire mesh and put on there to protect them:p

[MonteCristo]

Iron Boot - Well, how can I not welcome you to the boards with such wonderful praise? :D Yeah I wasn't too impressed by that snide comment from Leo, it seemed a little over the top to me. Tykeil's cool though, he's usually a good critic but just shouldn't make opinions when he's drunk. LOL Still thanks for the backup man. :)

Ducky - I guess in a way, you guys don't get to see everything, because where you see the model as a plain mesh, I can see the mesh and also see in my mind's eye what textures will go where. It's not apparnet yet, but the chest plate where the breasts are covered will be metal, the rest (the raised part) will be leather. I'm looking forward to seeing your storybook stuff. Any ideas when you'll be stitching that lot together?

[MonteCristo]

Howdy again folks! Ok, I've just been doodling to figure out exactly where I'm going with this arm section of armour.This is the only heavily armed part of Lizabell, and I want it to be highly unusual. So here's a mockup part-3D and part-scribbles. At this point I'm really only concerned with the concept, here things look plastic, but when the texturing happens, it will all be much subtler. In fact the final image I have in mind probably won't display much of this at all, but I'm a sucker for details and doing things in strange ways. Anyhoo, what think?

[rubberduck]

I really like the face on the armor part, not sure about those little hands on there, well.... don't care much for them:eek: ;) Kinda makes it looks like it's an dress up amor for a parade or something:)

[GordaN]

:eek: i'm speechless, it's amazing, seriously!

[Corth]

Wow Monte, that's a cool concept, I like the idea, but definitly make the hands subtle, like just popping part of them out of the forearm plate, and the gloves are sweet :)

I can't wait to see this stuff all together!

[Vertigo]

Okay, I'm starting to feel pretty bad drawing all over everybody's posts like this. But I think its the easiest way to illustrate what I'd like to suggest.

Basically, I liked everything but the position of the hands. To me it seems like the hands would stop her wrists from being able to bend... palm up I guess. So I was thinking maybe build the hands into the lower arm plate something like how I did in the image below. You could even have the hands cradling something maybe? and that would leave room for some sort of design on the wrist plate as well.

?????

I don't know. Just an idea I had. Feel free to shoot me down completely :D

[ido]

I’m happy to see the new updates Montecristo :),
This is taking an interesting direction, I’m not sure if I read this correctly but to me it looks like an eclectic mix of your interpretation of gothic and medieval styles with your own personal design ideas. It is very hard to make an eclectic design look good, to make all the deferent styles work together and all the deferent parts fit. It is a challenge. Personally I like cleaner and simpler designs but it sure is going to be very interesting to see this original concept come together :)

[MonteCristo]

Thanks guys! I'm moving house today, so maybe no more updates for a little while until I get the internet set up down in my new place.

So, it seems that the hands are the main problem eh? That doesn't surprise me really I kinda expected it. I liked Vertigos's idea for resahping them and I may go more along that approach. At the moment the hands are holding a sheild to protect the back of Lizabell's hand and under that her wrist can bend. I had thought about having interchangeable items so that one forearm piece might have a shield, whereas another might have a sword, which of course lizabell could punch with, kinda like a wolverine claw. Anyway. Ido is right it will be difficult to tie this all together, but I think that texturing will be the key to that. We'll see.

Thanks a lot guys.

[Avatar-3DT]

Well, in the moment I saw the bracelet it came to my mind to suggest you to make the arm like they embrace the bracelet; but Vertigo came first with the suggestion. Honestly I would prefere a more suble model, just a good texture and a great bump map with an intricate model of leafs and serpents. But if you want the hands, maybe you can try to make them more subtle. Like the way Kuman did on his chinese opera performer on the ornaments.

[Corth]

Monte? Monte are you there? it's so dark here... I'm scared...

Translation: How's everything going??? :)

[MonteCristo]

You meddling headphone-wearing babys! Why oh why, d'ya have to go and reactivate this old thread man? ;) Now, I'm gonna haveta work on Lizabell again too? :D

[Corth]

hehe, YES :p

[Avatar-3DT]

What?! You didn't worked on her anymore?! You *******! :D:p

[energizerrabbit]

Hehe, I just finished looking at all of the new stuff, and was bored, so decided to dig up the past, from before I was on this forum. Came across this, and now, I must tell you to continue your good work on Lisabell. (that is a request, not an order)

[MonteCristo]

Still, my elfen woman continues to haunt me... Will she never rest? :) :blah: :zzz: :cry: :dunno: :hmm: :( :xx: :ugh:

Seriously, I have every intention of finishing Lizabell off someday. For now I have a more pressing project called "stylised girly girl" which is a commision piece, and will be updated on the is forum within the next couple of days hopefully.

Thanks for the heads up man, glad you enjoy it so far.

[dhruvsm]

hi cristemontecristo....how can i missed this thread...this is so wonderfully done...but did u completed the project or the model???...it would be nice ti see a completed work like this....hope to see....bravo

[Woody]

lol :D Lets everybody post on this thread!!! Monte will be happy for sure!!! :D

[Jason-Lavoie]

I serisouly can't wait until u start working on this rpoject again...

I remember when i joined here... this was like the best looking project i have EVER seen... still is man.. it is SO awsome...

[MonteCristo]

Ha ha ha ha! You guys are sooo funny. OK, I'll make you a promise. As soon as I'm done doing the girl tutorials, I will make it my mission to finish this whole thread off, including the scene which I started work on that you haven't seen yet, and all the textures on the armour. Y'see the girl tutorials were a promise I made to Tom, ages ago, so now that I have time. I have to honour them.

But, it would be a shame to let this one go unfinished... it will return... again.... :D

Thanks guys

[Avatar-3DT]

Ok, Terminator, that's a promis :) "I'll be back".

[jawahar]

great work as always monte...waiting for her...to return :D

[dhruvsm]

great montecristo.......great for the promise....hope to see it alive and complete...very soon...thanks....:-). ...