ME-262 fighterjet (germans nearly achieved air superiority with this one in ww2)

[ClayCreator]

I thought I´d show my ME-262 model since it´s still a wip(I started making it a couple of months ago) and I´ve just started working on it again. I´ve begun making part of the tailfin now, have to make another mesh to join it with the tail...this is one of the most complex models I´m working on now.
Comments and suggestions are very much needed here. :)

[ClayCreator]

- Side View -

[Psistorm]

good start so far, keep it up :D
cant wait to see some update :)

[dave3d]

Hey ClayCreator!

It's looking good dude, do you use blueprints?
About the air superiority... The Me262 was good, the only problem was that it came in too late and wasnt produced in the sufficent amount to regain air superiority.

Btw, what happened to the OT-34-76?

[ClayCreator]

Thanks for your comments guys. :)
dave3d you´re right about the lack of produced 262s, Hitler was having way too much trouble all over the world to concentrate on mass producing it in considerable numbers...hehe and the allies bombed too many of his factories.
As for blueprints I´m using 2d drawings in black and white to model after,and also some real photos. I´ll update as soon as I finish the tailsection.
As I posted in my OT-34 WIP section I have too many objects in it for my comp to handle at the moment so I´ll have to wait until I can afford a better graphics card to continue the work.

[Goig!]

The wings need sweptback, the airfoil doesn´t look right and the fuselage looks too round... constructive critic, you know. ;)

I uploaded a couple blueprints to my site you may want to check.



Side view plus cross-sections (http://www.elale.net/Aero/a36.gif)

Top and bottom views (http://www.elale.net/Aero/a37.gif)

[sarN]

mmmm a sausage plane :p
modelling looks good so far, keep workin!

[ClayCreator]

Lol @ "sausageplane"...:p yeah sarN I´m gonna work on it some more tomorrow.
And Goig! thanks so much for those blueprints,very detailed I´m sure they´re gonna be of great help with modelling the wings correctly... :)
Actually the blueprints I was following were all wrong according to the swept back wing shape but I followed them anyway(the shape of the airofoil was similar to the real wings) so it would be easier to make them, I planned on rotating the outer wings once they were complete and I´m almost finished making them now, rotating them back shouldnt be much of a problem.
I think I have the shape of the fuselage ready now though, it´s not as round as you think, here´s a front view:

[dave3d]

Good job ClayCreator... I wish i could remember the armament of this one... I'm gonna look it up!

Here's some interesting facts about the Me262!

Engines: Two 1,984-pound thrust Junkers Jumo 004B-1/-2/-3 turbojets.
Weight: Empty 8,378 lbs., Max Takeoff 14,110 lbs.
Wing Span: 40ft. 11.5in.
Length: 34ft. 9.5in.
Height: 12ft. 7in.
Performance:
Maximum Speed: 540 mph
Ceiling: 37,565 ft.
Range: 652 miles
Armament: Four 30-mm MK 108 cannon in nose

There were 1,433 Me 262s built, with nearly 500 more destroyed by bombing raids before they were completed. Of that total, fewer than 300 were actually used in combat.

[Xullion]

That's interesting...

I saw a documantairy about this airplane on Discovery Channel a few months ago, the Germans were advanced in rocket science, and they were also the first who had plans for an atomic bomb......oops....it seems I'm going offtopic now :o

[the_solidshadow]

cool man!
but... that's not the textured version, is it?

[Chris-3DT]

Originally posted by sarN
mmmm a sausage plane :p
modelling looks good so far, keep workin!

W U R S T! :p

http://gastrofood.co.za/Sausages.jpg

[RickStefani]

Weren't the germans also the first to come up with the plans for a stealth fighter.

[ClayCreator]

First of all thanks to all of you for your comments and interest in this project of mine, this antique fighter jet seems to have stirred up some enthusiasm and interesting facts as well. :)

- dave3d: Great to see all those specifications you dug up on the 262, I knew it had four nosemounted cannons but 30mm...!? :eek: That´s some impressive armament it has. :D

- Chris-3DT: Those are some tasty sausages there, lol yummm :p
I wonder if the ME-262 pilots ate a full plate of those before going into battle....lol ;)

- RickStefani: You are correct, the germans did indeed create the first "stealth-jet", it was actually a "flying-wing"(almost like a boomerang) design which was copied by the british(ie the Vulcan) and later by the americans(ie the B2 Stealth bomber). However since it was only a prototype the german plane wasnt all that stable and maneuverable.

Well...I underestimated the simplicity of turning the wings into a jetwing shape, it took several long hours of mesh editing to get the shape right, still need to add the wingtips. And the ailerons meshes had points scattered all over(total nightmare but I did the best I could) so I think I´m going to delete all the ailerons and start on new ones...I really just jumped into making this jet because of enthusiasm a few weeks after I got max, hadnt really practiced mesh editing before that.....oh well I´m alot better now so it shouldnt take long to create them all again. Next update: Finished wings and engines shaped correctly following Goig!s thoughtfully sent blueprints. :)

[bullethead]

Originally posted by ClayCreator
Thanks for your comments guys. :)
dave3d you´re right about the lack of produced 262s, Hitler was having way too much trouble all over the world to concentrate on mass producing it in considerable numbers...hehe and the allies bombed too many of his factories.
As for blueprints I´m using 2d drawings in black and white to model after,and also some real photos. I´ll update as soon as I finish the tailsection.
As I posted in my OT-34 WIP section I have too many objects in it for my comp to handle at the moment so I´ll have to wait until I can afford a better graphics card to continue the work. Actually, the reason this model wasnt massed produced is because Hitler was making crazy plane concepts and blowing all his money on those. He was the first to have a jet. And also yes it is true the reason it didnt help em in the war is because he got em too late to make a differnce. Ive seen the other jet planes his team was trying to create and I must say they were hilarious...but thats the reason why he didnt have mass amounts of this model you are building...and it is a beautiful plane.

I like the job you are doing on it so far...keep up the good work.

[Daniel]

it's a good start, but you need to put some serious work into this if you want to make it look good. Right now it's way too primitive, needs details. keep at it.

[dave3d]

Ontopic: Keep updating ClayCreator :) Looking good so far.

Offtopic:
Originally posted by bullethead
He (Hitler) was the first to have a jet.
Not true, allied engineers made a jetplane in 1942 but it wasnt operational.

[ClayCreator]

Hehe,a big thanks for all facts and crits so far. DanielB I´m trying to make it look detailed but what I´m doing so far is also alot of work and seems to me that most aircraft models are made more detailed with well made aircraft textures and not multible panels and other details modeled and added to the plane itself,unless you are making the landing gear also which I am not. The biggest details in this model will be the canopy,cockpit,and tailfin+elevator meshes which I have yet to complete.

Well I promised a render once the wings were complete so here´s a small update then,the engines and nose have been shortened and whole fuselage widened to conform with the shape of the real aircraft. Also I changed the texture, made it look less like a "sausage"(as I´ve been told :p) and more like a "bloodsausage",hehe...;)
Tell me what you think of the texture please, I´m hoping to use it perhaps with bumpmaps of airplane textures( all those lines and shapes representing all the various parts of the bodywork).
Btw if anybody knows any tutorials for making more detailed renders I´d very much appreciate getting some info on that.(I use max4) :)

[dave3d]

Looking good, but god damnit use a grey material :P

[instinct]

The 262 was ready to be produced from around 1943, however new British bombers could hold a payload of around 10 times that of the germans, the reason why this plane came to late is because hitler wanted it redesigned to hold a much heavier payload that would basically bugger britain with the speed and amount it could deliver. But luckily for us it came too late.

[mmiller]

ClayCreator
Have you seen Akio Takahashi's 262?
I have no idea about accuracy, but he has generated some nice looking renderings.
http://www.h3.dion.ne.jp/~jeger/me262a_1.html
make sure you click on all the links There is another page that shows the weapon instalation

I think you have made a good start

I agree with Dave3D
That temperary texture map is nasty looking ;)
Mark

[bullethead]

Originally posted by dave3d
Ontopic: Keep updating ClayCreator :) Looking good so far.

Offtopic:

Not true, allied engineers made a jetplane in 1942 but it wasnt operational. Read what you wrote...Keyword being "wasnt":D

Ontopic: Yes that texture has to go. It just makes me shutter. please come up with something better. But all around the plane is still looking pretty good..keep up the good work.

[Yustas]

If you look at the picture, i know it's not the best, the engine was flattening out on top where it connected to the wing, so it looked like it was part of the wing. I think if you can do this little change the model will look a bit more realistic.

And it would be great to see the authentic texturing like on the pic :)

[Thahackboy]

Keep going, but remove that ugly texture!!!!

[ClayCreator]

Lol, yeah I know it´s an ugly texture...it was supposed to be an old ww2 joke anyway, germans with their sausages and bratwúrst,hehe....:p
mmiller I don´t appreciate ppl posting links to superrealistic models that are complete and obviously look a whole lot better and professional than mine....this 262 that guy made just makes my model look like **** the way it is now. :grr: I´m sure you had your good intentions though....

Yustas thanks for bringing to my attention the shape of the engines, I see now that I need to flatten them where they connect to the wings and also the bottom of the engines need to be flattened as well....

I´m not having an easy time working on this model at all it´s very complicated,lot´s of areas that need more smoothing, I´ll show some renderings in grey color so you see what I mean.

Keep posting your knowledge of the 262 guys, it´s always fun to hear more facts, you seem to know alot more about it than I do,lol.
I´ll try to work on it some more over the weekend but until then here´s some renders:

[dave3d]

Looking good ClayCreator! Keep up the good work :D

From what I've been told, the few Me262s used in service were used against allied bombers.

[ClayCreator]

A close-up of one of the turbine props....and the horrible mess I made when trying to make a mesh connecting the rear of the wing to both the engine and flaps on either side...the other side of the engine connector looks alot better than this but still.....*sigh :(

[ClayCreator]

Update!
I´ve been very lazy working on this model but I´m starting to get some more inspiration(partly from playing IL2 Sturmovik all the time now:p ) so I decided to complete the tailsection.
I know it doesn´t look perfect,but it´s still fairly decent the way it is now I think.....
Oh and dave3d I believe you´re correct about the 262s mainly focusing on bombers, but still I wouldn´t want to chase a slow moving target like a bomber in a high powered jet myself, I´d almost always overshoot my target,lol....those german pilots were crazy back then. :D

[ClayCreator]

Two full perspective views here:

[mmiller]

Originally posted by ClayCreator

mmiller I don´t appreciate ppl posting links to superrealistic models that are complete and obviously look a whole lot better and professional than mine....this 262 that guy made just makes my model look like **** the way it is now. :grr: I´m sure you had your good intentions though....
Uhhhh .... sorry
I definitly did not mean to put you or your model in a bad light.
I just thought you could get some ideas/inspiration by looking at what somebody else has done with the same subject.
In fact, I would think those images would be a great resource for you.

we are here to learn from each other
You can learn something from Akio's work
so can I ;)


BTW - your model doesn't look like ****
Mark

[ClayCreator]

Thank you Mark....I know you meant well. :)
Well here´s an update, finally...! I haven´t been working on this model for over a week now, just took the last couple of days and really dove in to it, finished the canopy and cannons. It´s roughly there now, only need to do some final smoothing to some objects and then I´m going to texture it.... C&C please.
Btw,any ideas for textures? :cool:

[gspinz]

everything needs to be shaped properly, the wings look like they have been torn off a cessna 406 and stuck on. the canopy looks like you've draged off an spit 5. the jet engines are not to shape.

i even went to the trouble of finding blueprints for you man.

http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw/me262-2.html

or

http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw/me262.html

gspinz

[ClayCreator]

I appreciate you going to the trouble of finding those blueprints, I followed them and made some adjustments....
It´s still not 100% accurate, I´ve lost interest in this model anyway,shaping it correctly totally bites...:(
Here´s some renders, say your worst about it....:roll:

[ClayCreator]

Perspective view

[dave3d]

looking good claycreator... keep up the good work!

[Cyrenn]

Great Job with the ME-262. Looking forward to seeing it complete.

I believe another reason the Me 262 couldn't be produced was because the american's ended up bombing an important ball bearing factory. Which I think was crucial to the ME-262.

Also Hitler was putting to much resources as well in those V2 Rockets. Instead of the ME-262. Ya that ME- 262 was a bad mutha. World War 2 could have been alot different if only Hitler would of paid attention to his generals.

Also another factor that came into play was the P-51 pilots were more skilled then what was left of the German Luftwaffa. They ended up figuring out how to fly against the ME-262. Besides the fact that they just stalked them in there airbases while they were grounded.

Actually the first American pilot to shoot down a ME-262 in combat , was Leonard "Ben" Drew. In fact he shot down 2 in one day. Flying the Cadillacs of the Sky. His good ol P-51 named the "Detroit Miss."

Back to your model. I think its comming along great. In fact I was going to make a scene of Drew shooting down a ME-262 about 4 months ago but never got around to finish it.

You did a great job so far. I can see you modeled the ME-262 alot better then I did. You inspired me to go back and tweek out my model.

Here's a pic of the Me-262 I did. I made the render small though. My engines are all wrong I'll have to go back and redo them.

Also heres a pic of the P-51 I modeled. Let me know if you might want a copy of this mesh to tweek for your liking, incase maybe you wanted to use it for a scene.

Once again keep up the good work. Im looking forward to seeing it complete.

http://www.digitalvamp.com

Here's WIP I started. On a Female Android.

http://forums.3dtotal.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16717

[Cyrenn]

Here's that P-51 not textured though.

[Cyrenn]

Don't give up on your model. Honestly I think you only need to make minor tweeks on it.

I can see it looks like your having a few problems on the wings.

Well Im not saying this is the right way to fix your wing. But it seems to have given me some pretty good results.

I just detach the polygons that form which ever part of the wing and then I added a quick slice on its edges, also make sure to cap off your holes on your detached parts I guess chamfer it might work but Im not sure.

I got a couple of pics here on how I cut up the wing. Hope it might help you.

Its in its lowest res form.

[Cyrenn]

Heres a close up of the edges.

[gspinz]

looking better mate...still needs a bit of work though :)

just keep refering back to your reference material :)

gspinz

[ClayCreator]

Thank you Cyrenn for your historical info and comments, I had fun reading it.
I was amazed to see how much your me-262 model looks like mine, which u say looks better...well if you say so. :D
Your P-51 looks great btw, keep at it and I´m glad I could inspire you to try to finish your 262.
Your way of cutting off the edges of the ailerons and flaps looks like a good idea although it seems to spoil the airofoil shape a little bit at the back of the movable wing surfaces(flaps etc), too flat and thick, maybe rotating the cutting plane inwards and leaving the surfaces cut and slanting inwards will do the trick, at least that´s what I´m going to do with my model. Thanks again for the idea. :)
Good luck with your model.

[ClayCreator]

The ME-262 fighter jet textured at last,what a nice feeling...:)
Seeing as how I spent over two hours trying to get it to look ok.
Here´s a couple of renders,the first one is with textures only and the second with the same textures plus an environment map reflecting off the raytraced textures. I´m not that good at texturing so any comments and tips would be much appreciated.
There´s one thing bothering me, I can´t seem to get bumpmaps to work on mesh-edited objects, only on those who aren´t,I tried both Texture and Environ settings and Environ just makes bumps look horrible especially if it´s combined with a Diffuse texture in Environ mode too(I need to make Diffuse as Environ so it will display the texture on mesh-edited objects...).

[ClayCreator]

The second render...

[Cyrenn]

Try anding alittle noise map on the texture. Im not sure but it might help. Only cause the metal on the planes weren't exactly smooth all the way around.

Otherwise it looks great.

Cyrenn

[bunglo]

Das ist sehr gut! Sorry, just testing my german. Looks better than mine. I really need to learn how to texture ( I have a tut, but i'm kind of lazy right now :) I was wondering if you were going to put the decals on, it would make it look better. Keep up the good work:cool:

[ClayCreator]

Lol! Danke bunglo. :D
I don´t know how I´m going to put any decals on it, it´s not like just cropping part of a picture and pasting it on the side of my plane like I´d do in a 2d program...3d texturing is such hard work and requires endless changes and calculations to be made, I wonder if anybody even professional cg artists can ever be totally pleased with their final render...there is always some other modifications u can make to it. lol :p
But I´m still learning and I take all advice and comments to heart.
Cyrenn I took your advice and added some noise to the texture, I´m still not sure which looks better: plain texture or same texture with environment map to give it more camo details....maybe I should combine the picture I use for environment with the metallic one I use for the texture,hmmmmm....

[ClayCreator]

noise+environment

[ClayCreator]

Here´s what the enviroment picture does to the ocean I added to create some atmosphere....

[Cyrenn]

Try playing around with the noise size of the texture.

Im not sure which way breaks up the noise. So it doesn't make it to bumpy.

But if your going to try and put decals.

Try using the blend material.
1st create your texture. Then create the mask of the texture. and then blend them together. LOL! Ya I think thats how it goes.


But for real try doing a tutorial in Max to understand how to do blends. Or do the tutorial made by Enrico on the free tutorial section on 3dtotal.


Texturing and lighting the Nissan R390 GT in 3ds max 5" by Enrico Nencini

Its a really good one.

Texporter is always great to have.

Heres a link where you can get one for which ever MAX version you have.

http://www.cuneytozdas.com

Cyrenn

[bunglo]

Hey Cyrenn, use this tutorial

http://home.wanadoo.nl/r.j.o/skyraider/tut_texturemapping.htm

That should teach ya how to put the decals on :)

[ClayCreator]

Uh well actually no.... :(
Thanks Cyrenn and Bunglo for all the help with the texturing but this is way to complex for me to understand, I tried that tutorial u suggested Bunglo and it´s just too much confusing mumbo-jumbo, I´d need to be an A-student in math or something to understand it all...and I HATE MATH! lol :grr:
I just texture my models one painful object at a time, simply: open material editor,create a nice looking texture, then just click on the object and apply the texture...that´s it.
I WILL however try using mask to add another bitmap image such as a german cross to the tailplane, good idea Cyrenn...simple too. :p

[ClayCreator]

I´ve already used the mask option to add another bitmap to the one I first made, now it´s got more camo details without using environment....
Yeah I suck at texturing so what? :p

[Cyrenn]

I really like how its turning out.

Serious, the metal of the plane looks really good.

Did you play with the noise.

It has a nice broken up feeling to it.

If you've ever watched Pearl Harbor the movie. (You know the one with Ben Aflack.) I was pausing the zero's in flight to see how the metal on the planes might have been textured.

Its petty much like what you have right now.

Keep up the good. Work.

Cyrenn

[bunglo]

Very nice! Can we see a perspective view please?!?

[ClayCreator]

You guys really think so? Lol I´m surprised...thanx :)
Yes I have been playing around with noise alot actually.
Here´s a perspective view for you Bunglo.
Oh btw Cyrenn I cut the edges off the ailerons and flaps like u suggested, looks much better.

[ClayCreator]

Modified the overall textures a bit, better glass material for cockpit windows, here´s a couple of renders with cannons firing.

[ClayCreator]

side view

[novoAlias]

hmm i think its a lot better now

the only thing i dont like is the bump map. i have never seen a plane that has a surface like that, usually the plane is covered in cloth or, these days aluminium or composite (fiberglassy stuff) unless your plane is very very special i doubt it would have a surface that rough, try taking the bump off completely for now.. if you want to break up the surface try a noise map in specularity but make it very small like 0.01-0.02, same goes for if you want to keep the bump map, try it!

[ClayCreator]

Blackwolf thanks for your crit, I was using noise in the bump slot to make those bumps, they made the lighting look better on the texture I thought....but I did what u suggested and made noise only 0,02 in size couldnt see a thing, then I made it size 1(used to be 8) and here´s the result, you can just barely see the noise. Better you think?

[novoAlias]

yup now it looks like leather instead of rock :D lol ;) its not that bad but do you have any photos of the real thing to work from?

[ClayCreator]

Well yeah I have some photos but I SUCK AT TEXTURING! Hehe remember.....I´m even putting off texturing my OT-34 tank until I get better at it :p