View Full Version : Character: Nollun Beast
I want to present you my current work where I try to modell a beast which I once found in some contept thread. The bad thing: I can't remember where anymore. So if the creator comes along - I hope you like what I do with your contept ;)
This is a first early state where I started to model the body of the beast. It's the result from about 3 hours of work. I want to get some more practice in modelling from a plane using editable poly in 3dsmax.
You'll notice that I don't stick to the concept in all details. I want to give it my own style. I hope you like it so far. I'll post a newer version as soon as I've come any further!
RodrigoRosa
22-02-2004, 11:46 AM
nice concept you stolen... just playing... :D ... nice start dude, i'm looking forward for updates....
Dedalo
22-02-2004, 11:56 AM
Nice work dude. great concept
Thanks for your comments so far. Today I've found no time but the next days I'll work on!
Again: please don't give me credits for the concept - it's not mine. I still hope the originator grants me the right to use it. If not, let me know.
MrArmless
23-02-2004, 07:10 AM
just so you know who that was from, it's Avatar's drawing :)
Thx MrArmless... I've sent him a private message - we'll see if he likes my work or breaks everything ;)
I've had not much time today but continued to modell the legs. It's the work of only half an hour but I'm satisfied for now. Details will be added later. I hope to finish all legs tomorow and then I'll continue with the upper body.
Here is the current WIP image.
I've got a reply from Avatar and I had luck! So far he likes what he sees and therefore I'm allowed to continue the work ontop of his concept. But with one condition: I have to make him proud! And that's where I need your help as I continue. This also takes you into account ;)
I'll present you the next update as soon as possible... maybe I find some time today.
Downup
24-02-2004, 09:27 AM
hehe or else :roll: :p
Phynius Gauge
25-02-2004, 01:00 AM
Wow, that's the most evil snail I've ever seen:evil:, not that I've ever seen any evil snails;). Its looking good so far, I think you need to add much more detail, but you may be saving that for last.
What kind of details do you think of? The spots on top and things like that? I plan to achieve this with a good bump- or displacementmap. This keeps the model as simply as possible and as complex as necessary. We'll see what's like at the end... maybe I add more details to the mesh when I've reached that point.
The bad news is that I'll not find time today... but I plan to spend some hours tomorrow to continue the model.
I did it again... used the past two hours to model the four legs. So far I'm satisfied... not definatly 100% but enough to stop working on them for now. The next step will be the upper body which won't be an easy one. But I'll try my best.
As evertime... comments and critics are allways welcome! So please leave your opinion! Thanks!
Phynius Gauge
26-02-2004, 09:32 AM
The legs look pretty awesome. I was just talking about all the detail in the picture, but you should be able to handle that with some good mapping ;) . Good job so far.
this is a hardcore concept you choosed, but i think you'r going to make it great, nice! good continuation ;)
It's nice that everybody seems to trust in me. Thanks.
I used the past 2 hours to build a very basic shape of the upper body and extruded some first horns to get a better idea of what the snail will look like in the end. But this is far from being finished! Just take it as a bried forecast of the things to come. I'll try to improve this tonight... my girl is out with a girlfriend of her and I have some time for my model... we'll see how far I can get this time...
Here is the actual state of the beast - comments and critics are - as allways - welcome and appreciated!
nico3d
29-02-2004, 01:12 PM
wow !! it's nice to see Avatar's amazing concepts becoming "real"
keep up man it's going excelent, I want to see it till the very end
RodrigoRosa
29-02-2004, 01:34 PM
you're being totally faithful to the Avatar's concept.... can you show a low wire?
keep up the good work
Thanks again! I'm trying my best to reach a high quality work. So far I'm really satisfied with it - compared to previous modelling efforts I've made huge improvements.
This will be my last update for today. I've corrected the shape of the upper body a bit and lowered the head. It was a bit to tall before. I've also modelled parts of the chest and the side of the head and added some more horns to the chin.
I think it won't become any better tonight... my concentration fades. Monday will most propably bring the next update.
I'll also post some low-poly-models with the following reply... here is a first high-poly-update:
Here are some low-poly-shots:
Avatar-3DT
29-02-2004, 03:52 PM
Very nice thus far. I really like where this is going. Its a pitty you don't have more time to model. The only crit targets the legs, or better said, the end of the legs, the pointy part. It's too thin! It should be round and not to pointy, a big piece of bone to suport all the weight of the beast.
Nice to hear from you :) I'm glad you like my work so far. Thanks! I'm not sure what you mean with the legs. I've tried to stay as close to the concept as possible with the legs. Would you like to change the model in a way the concept doesn't show? If you can make this any clearer I'll do my best to accommodate... and yes... the time is a shame but that's life with a cute girlfriend and a normal workday... I'll catch whatever I can...
looking great! nothing to crit. i believe it will be a nice horrible beast ( :D )
deejaysoup
01-03-2004, 06:37 AM
the beast is looking good. :)
I was looking at the concept art and what you have so far, it looks like the shell on its back should go all the way up to the head instead of stoping at the neck.
Other than that I think you doing a good job following the concept.
Thanks again for all new comments!
@deejaysoup: I plan to make a separate shell for the head. If the shell would have been made as one piece the snail could never move its head. I hope you agree with that.
deejaysoup
01-03-2004, 01:57 PM
yeah I agree, I didn't even think about that.
Avatar-3DT
01-03-2004, 02:10 PM
Sorry, my mistake. You are true to the picture. But you'll have to brack the thiness of the claws with some seriouse displacement maps.
Here is another update to the beast. I've tried to create the front legs but I'm not totally satisfied again... It's really hard to get the desired shape. But the overall apearance now at least comes close to the concept and so I post this first version. All comments and critics are welcome as usual. Please leave your feedback.
SkullAK
02-03-2004, 09:19 AM
OMG :!!!: :!!!: :!!!: your works is AMAZING, ever considered working for game companys? itd be great to have some games with graphics of that quality!
@SkullAK: No, I'm not working for a game company... I thought of such things a while ago but stranded as a well paid developer for a small company in Berlin. Maybe I reconsider my job at some time... for now my modelling is simply not good enough to compete.
@Game Companies, Art Studios, etc: Interested? Just contact me! ;)
Now for the new update... most propably the last for today. I increased the size of the stomach of this beast. It was a bit flat compared to the concept. I've also shortened the front legs a bit and lowered the angle at the knee. I'm now more satisfied with the overall shape. I've also added some more details to the legs but i'm not sure, if I should keep this. Maybe I can support it with a good texture later. What do you think?
SkullAK
02-03-2004, 10:23 AM
hmm i could argue with you a long time over your modeling :P just a suggestion, i think the side legs look too skinny, for both holding the creatures weight and for appearence, maybe have the end the same size but thicken the legs?
Avatar-3DT
02-03-2004, 02:54 PM
Well, when I draw it I never thought that those legs are for the creature to walk on. Instead she's using them to push her body while the front legs do all the work. So Da3X is not wrong.
That's what I thought about too... the beast pulls its body with the front legs and slides over the ground. I think of the side legs as a small support for moving and a dangerous weapon. The body itself will allways stay attached to the ground. I'll try to add some slime later to the scene.
Right now I think I have to rework the structures on the front legs again. I don't like how they came out. I also need some more details on the head. And I might tweak the shape of the heads shell a bit more to the concept - escpecialy the side part. I also need to rework the segments unter her body because they are way to round and smooth. I hope I can achieve this with a chamfer to the lines used there. We'll see.
Does anyone see other necessary improvements? If not I'll invest one more modelling session and start unwrapping and texturing then. My current scedule takes thursday for the modelling session and the weekend for unwrapping and texturing (the start of this of course)...
SkullAK
02-03-2004, 09:15 PM
ok sorry :) just a suggestion
Reign
03-03-2004, 01:30 PM
Awsome work!!!
how did you make it so only the orignal edges show up on the viewports and not the extra ones added by meshsmooth??
great looking character, i cant wait till detail is added to the model :) So far it looks good compared to the sketch as well. Reign, if hes using max 6, it does that automatically.
Reign
03-03-2004, 04:46 PM
Really??? i'm sold! goodbye max5, here I come max6..... maybe :O)
I thought you were using editable poly to model, but now i'm not so sure. The first couple of posts shows a hollow neck; are you using patches? or this another new feature of max6 i don't know about??
Thanks for the comments again!
@Reign: I've started with a simple plane and the Symetry modifier. At some later point the shape gets closed and than it's more like box modelling where I prefer the "editable poly" over the "editable mesh". So you're right... it's editable poly... and yes, it's 3dsmax v6 what I'm using for this. It is able to show the simplier mesh also for the smoothed version - which is great!
Here is a small roadmap of the modelling until now:
Okay, I've spend today tweaking the mesh here and there and finally think that I can't make it any better. From my point of view this is the final mesh which will be unwrapped this weekend so I can start texturing...
I've rebuild the details on the front legs. The first try simply was to bad. This one is better IMHO. It was really hard to get close to the concept with this. What you see is actually my 4th try strarting from the bare front leg. It won't become any better I think. Hopefully I can improve this with the texture later.
I've also tweaked the lower side of the beast. The old segments were far to round and now they are more chiseled and closer to the concept.
And at last I've enlarged the muscles for the side legs a bit. The old ones were a bit smaller than the concept and so I decided to make them stronger. We had some critics for that and that's a subtile change I think. I hope you like it this way.
I'm currently rendering a PAL resolution turnaround (500 frames for the details) which I'll link when it's finished. For now you'll have to be satisfied with another WIP screenshot.
Avatar-3DT
05-03-2004, 02:19 PM
Its awsome! All it needs now is some segmentation on the "tail". Take a close look at the concept and you'll understand what I meant. That's if you don't plan to do it with textures. Anyway, great work! I can't wait to see the textures on this one.
@Avatar: The tail is where I've left the concept... but I think you're right. I'll add those segments as a last step modelling the beast. Then it's even closer as now. I'll do this as soon as I've arrived at work today (in 1 hour) ;)
Over night I have rendered a first turnaround so that you can see the details from different angles... but I'm not happy with it... nevertheless - here is the link to the 3.2 MB DivX movie... as soon as I've changed the tail I'll do a better one which goes more into the details of the model - didn't have the timer yesterday.
CHECK LATER POST FOR NEWER LINK!
Phynius Gauge
05-03-2004, 10:55 PM
Great job dude :) . My only crits would be that I think I see some mesh errors on the stomach, and that the head might need a little more detail.
@Phynius Gauge: Thanks for pointing me to the mesh error. I've fixed this. I plan to add most small details using displacement whle texturing. This also includes most things on the head.
I've also segmented the tail of the beast to get closer to the concept. As far as I can say this was the last update to the mesh. I'm still thinking about some changes here and there but if I update over and over again I'll never come to texturing this beast. So this is final - let's say for 99%... maybe...
Here is a new image of the model and a link to a 7.54MB DivX turnaround animation showing some detailsin PAL resolution. If someone needs a MPG or similar, please let me know - I'll upload this if needed.
CHECK LATER POST FOR NEWER LINK!
Ah... and don't wonder about the skull... just wanted to add something to the otherwise boring picture ;)
Avatar-3DT
06-03-2004, 01:36 PM
I've just notices that the head of your snail is one piece with the back armor. If you'll take a closer look at the reference (again, I hope this not annoys you), you'll the that the "face" of the snail is separate. When i thought the concept that part was stone. A weapon the snail uses to smith his pray unconsciouse. But If you left that aside intentionaly, my apologies.
Damn 1%... thinking over and over again I've decided to tweak the model again tonight. Texturing has to wait... I've marked the areas where I plan to improve the model. If you can see anything important I've left out please let me know. This will definatly be my last modelling session with this beast. I mean it ;)
nendo
07-03-2004, 01:02 AM
i don't think there any armor on it. apart from a exoskeleton
the heads still part of the body it's just cover in a exoskeleton. well the back part of it. wah u mean the face is serperate.
I've spent another two hours tweaking the model. And as far as I can tell it won't get better... this time for sure. I've changed all marked parts of my former posting and some minor things. I'm getting more and more used to tweaking complex models. I hope you agree with my changes. Nevertheless I'll start texturing this beast today... means unwrapping first. I've never finished any real complex texture until now so this will take some time and I'll gain many new experiences.
Please give me all your thoughts, critics and of course some sweet sugar... I want to know it all. Here is a quick render. My poor "Centrino" currently renders a new turn around in PAL resolution. The last took 4 hours using area shadows - without it simply looks to boring :)
The rendering with the areashadows simply took to long. So here is one without shadows (took 35min). I've fixed the small gap which can be seen on the stomach of the above image and moved some things around a bit. Nothing really obvious I think. Enjoy the 360° turn of the following 7.5 MB DivX PAL movie... die old link has been deleted due to webspace reasons.
REMOVED DO TO SPACE REQUIREMENTS! CHECK LATER POST FOR AN UPDATED VERSION!
Avatar-3DT
07-03-2004, 02:08 PM
It seems like you've nailed all the problems andsolved them. Great! I pointed one single thing and i saw you solved another ten things even I didn't spoted. I'm sure you'll do great. I guess texturing is in order.
Thanks Avatar, your O.K. is quite important for me!
I've read some texturing tutorials to remember the basic steps of texturing. One of the most important seems to be the definition of material IDs to get separate UVW maps without much interference. So my first step with modelling has been the assignment of those material IDs. The image below shows you my current setup. If anything is seriously broken - please let me know!
It's now 4:45am here in Berlin and I need to get some sleep. Otherwise I won't get up anymore :)
PS: Is there a limit for images per user? How do they serve all those images?
Jason-Lavoie
07-03-2004, 04:58 PM
Ha ha very carfully (you know that crocodile and dentist joke right...) cool dude, i can not wait till you texture :)
Avatar-3DT
08-03-2004, 01:16 PM
I cannot see any faults. It looks very clean until now. And I don't think there is a limit of images for user.
I didn't have much time this week so the updates are rare... here is a small one. I've started unwrapping the beast... takes some time because it's my first unwrap ever... I'm learning a lot with this beast. It'n not yet perfect but should be good enough for a first start. I'll try to improve this even more and then I'll continue with next material ID. I got some time today... stay tuned for updates!
I think I've just finished the headshell... this should be good enough... working on the next...
Downup
12-03-2004, 09:03 AM
i hope u can texture becouse this will rule:!!!:
I'll take as much time as needed to make a good texture - even if it takes months ;) I hope it all comes out really good at the end. The model went by far better then I've expected, so I hope the same for the textures. We'll see.
For today this is my last update. Ain't got enough concentration to continue any longer... I've started with the body... next time I should finish it and will continue at the legs... maybe I can finish the unwrapping this weekend.
I'm still open for all comments and critics. So please let me know what you think! I want the full dose :)
Avatar-3DT
12-03-2004, 01:01 PM
Nothing to crit this far. The texture seems pretty well streched over the mesh so there are no comments for now. I guess we're all expecting the actual textures. Good luck!
The last days my time was really limited so I'm still unwrapping the texture. This takes soooo long! Hard work... and very frustrating!
To keep the thread alive I've started a first simple texture. I try to find a good color for the shell since the sketch was b/w. What do you think... which color would you prefer for the shell?
And if you have some generally good tutorials on unwrapping and texturing - let me know. I'll need all references I can find...
Avatar-3DT
16-03-2004, 11:54 AM
You can try this one (just make a bump map yourself out of it)
Avatar-3DT
16-03-2004, 11:57 AM
...or this...
Avatar-3DT
16-03-2004, 12:00 PM
...or this one. Just take your pic.
very nice unwrap! have you got any technikz?
@Avatar: Thanks! Those textures are great! Have you made them or is there any reference site I don't know yet? They will help me alot!
@Mr.T: Thanks once more! I've not used any "special" technique... just applied several MaterialIDs and used a different UVWMap for each... then I started unwrapping every ID by itself... so far I've only finished the shell, most of the head and the snails torso... I'm still very busy at the face which is quite difficult and after this I have much more work with the legs. I hope to finish unwrapping some day... :)
I still don't know when I'll find time again to continue... it's very rare at the moment. I'll keep you updated as soon as possible!
Normally I should do my work here right now but I couldn't resist. Here is another try using one of the textures from Avatar. It has been rushed though... the bumb doesn't really reflect the diffuse material. Just wanted to give you another example of what it might look like later...
Cracadoo
16-03-2004, 10:47 PM
hey,man
It's looking awsome with avatars textures... Keep up...
Q. for modeators: Where are stars??? I beleve DA3X desterves a leest 4.
Never mind... here are stars from me ****
Thanks for your support Cracadoo!
I've just rendered a quick turnaround to get a better feeling of the texture. The bad thing is that I've discovered even more failures in the face-selection so that some faces of the model are missing in the texture. And there are still some serious stretchings in the front part of the shell. That's not good. It means that I have to update the unwrapping for the shell ones more. I should definatly take more precautions to avoid such problems. But that's the deal if you make your first real texture. I guess I simply have to learn this.
Nevertheless - here is the short movie:
REMOVED DO TO SPACE REQUIREMENTS! CHECK LATER POST FOR AN UPDATED VERSION!
Maybe I get my stars now :) Should bring in more discussion here.
Avatar-3DT
17-03-2004, 12:21 PM
The textures are from my personal collection, selected from all over the net and even from games. I cannot provide you with an adresse but if you need something special just tell me.
TAADAAA!!! I've got enough votes for my stars! :dance: Thanks to all involved!
I've corrected some of the missing polygons on the material of the shell and reworked the texture from scratch. This time I also created a better bumpmap which respects the diffuse colors. I think it's much better now then before. I've also started to apply a similar texture to the heads shell which should give you a first impression. But I'll have to work on this one much more to go in the direction of the concept. I'll also need to unwrap this id much better in some parts.
Here is another render from the current status. A short animation will follow when my machine has finished rendering... in approximately half an hour.
Here I'm back with the updated turnaround animation. This time it weights 10.8 MB and comes as PAL DivX as usual. Hope you can see this.
Next time I'll improve the unwrapping and tweak the textures even more. Especially the headshell needs much work. Stay tuned!
REMOVED DO TO SPACE REQUIREMENTS! CHECK LATER POST FOR AN UPDATED VERSION!
Phynius Gauge
18-03-2004, 08:45 AM
I see a little texture stretching, and I think you should make the texture more gray and less colorful, but that's just my opinion. Good job otherwise :) .
Avatar-3DT
18-03-2004, 11:40 AM
Phynius may be right. Give it a try Da3X, who knows?
I'm aware of the stretching in some areas. I'll try to improve this some more. As for the color I'll make further tests. The texture is by far not final.
I hope to find more time the next days... we'll see!
I've worked a bit on the texture for the bodyshell. But I've got far less time than I'd hoped for. So the changes are only few. I've also changed the color of the body to make it at least look different ;)
I'll also update the animation when my machine has finished the rendering... so stay tuned for an update.
It takes so much time... and it's frustrating if you don't see much progress over the time. Next thursday I'll travel to London until sunday - so there won't happen anything in the next days.
EDIT: I've changed the picture because the not yet unwrapped body texture looked to bad! It's plain colored now.
Jason-Lavoie
23-03-2004, 10:53 AM
The textures for the body are strecthed as well, the body and the shell texture do not work... i suggest you use the old texture for the shell, it looked a lot better (sorry, my opinion)
Good stuff though, can't wait for another update :)
Avatar-3DT
23-03-2004, 11:34 AM
A few other texture you can use for skin and shell...
Avatar-3DT
23-03-2004, 11:38 AM
...
Avatar-3DT
23-03-2004, 11:45 AM
...
Avatar-3DT
23-03-2004, 11:52 AM
...
Thanks for all those textures again, Avatar! I'll try to use them as a basis for the bodies texture. But I think they should be less colorful. What do you think? I've desaturated the shell too and I think I'll need to do the same to the body - at least with those textures.
I've finished the rendering of the animation... so here is another link. The old ones won't work anymore... I'll only keep the newest one everytime.
Version225.avi (http://www.xfolio.de/Version225.avi) DivX PAL 8.6 MB
Aichi-Val
23-03-2004, 01:31 PM
......only 1 thing can describe my emotions :eek: :eek: :eek: :
http://frey.pp.jippii.fi/~burke/homer/homer.gif
Avatar-3DT
24-03-2004, 02:30 PM
In my mind the body should be colorfull while the shell should look like stone, with cracks and bumps and small pieces of vegetation growing out of it. But you have the liberty to do as you see fit. Bright colors can warn danger.
I'm a bit frustated... texturing this beast is extremly hard! It's terrible! Especially because this is the first real texture I've ever started...
Back from my short London-Trip this weekend I've continued testing some textures. This my current version and I'm still far from beeing satisfied. Maybe I should start with the bones and rig this first to find some new motivation.
I'm currently rendering a new turn-around... here is the preview picture which has allready finished:
Avatar-3DT
30-03-2004, 10:52 AM
Put aside the reflection and give more attention to the illumination. That's more important that a reflexive floor. As for the textures, don't be afraid to give them more details and even some tiling in some areas. Work some shaders to give you the ideea how it will look like. Establish this with the textures you already have on your character and the rest will be easier.
All the changes to the no-bitmap-textures are just leftovers of several tries with different types of textures. I still get to know the texturing facilities of 3dsmax. The worst part is the unwrapping which still makes problems in several areas... I think I'll have to get through this before I have a chance to succeed. Maybe my expectations are to big for this model... I'm very unsatisfied at the moment. But I'll try to take more time and keep working on those things...
All motivation is welcome... so please leave your comments - all of you! Thanks!
Phynius Gauge
30-03-2004, 12:24 PM
I think you are on the right track with the textures. Just keep working and trying different things.
While rendering I've noticed a smaller mesh-error and a wrong set material id... so I decided to fix this before continuing with the turn-around. As a result I've also changed the texture again... and this is the first version which I find suitable for the beast. I'm still unhappy with the shiny effect which must become much stronger. I want the snail to look slimy and wet... I'm working on that.
The preview picture gives you a first impression... the animation link below will make it much clearer. The effekt is more visible while in motion. So I suggest downloading the movie this time!
I'Ve applied the texture to the unwrapped bodyparts... the head still needs to be unwrapped. The lower segments of the snail - where it touches the ground - will get another texture later... I just wanted to maximize the viewable area for now.
Version231.avi (http://www.xfolio.de/Version231.avi) DivX PAL 9.6 MB
I hope you share my opinion... let me know!
Reign
30-03-2004, 08:58 PM
Ya i agree, it's beginning to come out real nice. The only thing that concerns me is that some parts of the textures seem to be blurry and look as if they're low resolution. Maybe it's just slight stretching. As I picture it, the shell should be more crisp.. other then that, great job!!
Currently I use separate 1024x1024 textures for every material-ID... means body-shell, head-shell, tail, lower body, middle body... etc... there are some stretchings left over which I'll try to improve the next time.
I'm happy that you like the current evolution... I'll keep going this way.
Avatar-3DT
31-03-2004, 01:46 PM
Use a blinn shader with high specularity to get a wet look. Take out the fallof, that gives it a more "velvet-like" fx.
MrArmless
31-03-2004, 09:30 PM
I agree, the bottom part, what is not shell, should be downright slimy. I think the shell might be a little bit too clean / brilliant. If it's to be an evil creature, give it a tint that can let hit hide in the darkness of its own life.
Maybe the shell is still to bright... I'll tweak this when I'm satisfied with the body's texture. I've tried to make it look some more slimy than before... I think it has improved some more but it's still not what I desire...
I've started a thread over at CGTalk which might bring in some tips and tricks to make a slimy material.
Slimy Material Thread : http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1241104#post1241104
It's getting better with every update I think... hopefully I'll manage to create a good body texture in short so I can continue with the other parts of the beast.
This time I've tried a completly different thing and switched the renderer instead of the material. Here is a first try with the MentalRay-Renderer in use... I've only changed the background environment and the texture for the block the beast stands on. The beast itself is unchanged... unbelievable what a big difference this makes. I think I'll stick to mentalray which seems to be much better for reflections. The default scanline-renderer never showed so much detail. The only disappointment is the somewhat blurry appearance of the shell texture, but I think I can work around this by making a more mentalray-specific material with the same properties. What do you think?
Phynius Gauge
01-04-2004, 07:14 AM
Make the actual body of the snail more slimy. Otherwise its good. Those aren't the final leg textures are they?
Hehe.. no they are not... just leftovers from some former tries with different effects. All red parts will of course be textured one by one... and I'm currently working on the slime effect... it has allready improved... updates will follow later...
Avatar-3DT
01-04-2004, 12:22 PM
I onestly think your problem is not in the rendering but in shaders. The body looks now like old stone, not slimy at all. I promis I'll try to give you a "recepy" for a slimy shader. And, as I said before, you don't need reflections right now! Not at all!
I don't get the desired effect by only using specular lightning... only with reflections the wet slimy effect looks as I prefer... here are some collected impressions:
a) Diffuse and Bump as Bitmaps, SpecularMap (Waves), Glossy (50), Reflection (Smoke)
b) like a, without reflection
c) like b, brighter specular, tiles 10x
d) like c, added reflection from a again
e) like d, with pure Specular (100) and Glossy (20), without reflection
f) like e, Glossy (30), with reflection again
g) like a plus a different environment (not the Clouds, just plain Planet Material in B&W)
h) like g, added Map for Glossy (same as Specular)
Which version is your favourite?
My favourite is d from the above and I've tweaked this some more with different settings and changing bumpmaps. Here is my current version which from my point of view is allready nearly finished. I like the way the texture comes out escpecialy on the beasts chest in this rendering.
The turnaround-anim will make it much clearer - I'm rendering in the background and will update as soon as it has finished. I've allready been asked why I allways render the anims... I think it's the best way to evaluate a reflective shiny texture... a still picture comes not as close as an object in motion.
The next time I'll concentrate in unwrapping the other parts of the beast starting at its head with the shell (which still is not good enough). Then I'll finish the heads shell texture and continue at its face... so stay tuned... the beast evolves.
The body's texture is still in discussion... if you are able to convince me of a better solution I'll do my best to come closer... but I want to make progress in the other parts too.
The turnaround-animation has finished. To speed up rendering I've disabled some reflections not really necessary for the textures (legs, ground). But have a look...
Version263.avi (http://www.xfolio.de/Version263.avi) DivX PAL 9.44 MB
I think the texture looks a bit to metallic still... if you have further ideas let me know!
Here are some more impressions for those who cannot see the animation:
ryvick
02-04-2004, 07:20 AM
hey now its got the slimy look to it, awesome
is it gonna a leave a trail of goo behind it when it walks? ^^
Edit:: oh i like "D" too, its the closest to the slime look
Thanks ryvick! Yes, it will leave its trail later.. I plan that for the animation part at the end of the project.
I spent the last hour unwrapping the heads shell in total - I did start from the scratch because the old mapping was messed up in some parts. Both shells are now finally unwrapped. Now I'll concentrate on the texture for the headshell which is still unfinished and very simple.
Here is a new render of the headshell with it's current texture... I'll add another posting with a screenshot of the unwrapped meshs of both shells below.
Here are the allready unwrapped material IDs...
Avatar-3DT
02-04-2004, 12:59 PM
Indeed, D looks the closest to the slimy look but why don't you use the shader and the materials you've used on the legs? Aldo more like gelly than slimy, it can be an awsome starting point for the slimy material.
for slimy would you need to have a small noise map applied for bump maybe? Since things usually look slimy because their surface is uneven, like on a frog there isnt an even coating of (slimy stuff) on it, and the light reflects off of it like it does on water. At least... thats what i think its like
anyways, its looking great, beautiful texturing :)
@Avatar: I'll make another attempt with the shader used on the legs... but I think the different look comes from the falloff map of those. The reflections and speculars should be similar... but I'll check that in deep.
@sarN: The bumpmap is very important and I've made several tries with different ones allready. The current bumpmap is visible quite good when you have a look at the chest of the beast in the collected impressions shot above. The model itself is much simplier modelled then it apears there.
I've also had long discussions with my girlfriend about the slimy look and we came to the conclusion that we have different opinions about what looks slimy. From her point of view the diffuse material (she didn't use that name thou) is what makes the texture look like polished stone... she expects a simplier coloring of the body without all those dark and brighter areas in greenish colors.
From Avatars pointing at the leg's texture I assume that you are on the same track. Maybe I need to blur the bodies diffuse color much more to make it look slimy to others... the reflections might allready be good as they are.
I'll try to find some references of snails and worms and compare those to the current progress.
I've found the following picture and will try to come closer to this experience...
Nappa
02-04-2004, 09:11 PM
after watchinng your animation it looks more like marble than metal
Here are some new tries with changing bumpmaps and a much more blured diffusemap. Please let me know, what you think! I allready have my favourite...
Nappa
02-04-2004, 10:45 PM
My vote is for C it looks more natural
Phynius Gauge
02-04-2004, 11:14 PM
I think B is the best, but it needs some more subtle detail. You could combine B and D but make D very subtle.
Avatar-3DT
03-04-2004, 12:38 PM
I'll vote for C. I think this is the closest you ever got to the slimy thing and it looks like the snail pic helped you a lot.
Thanks for your comments! I've tried to improve the bumpmap to come even closer to the snails reference photo and here is the result. As Avatar has mentioned before I normally would not need a reflectionmap... with this bumpmap I could disable the reflections... it only used specular... so it heavily depends on the bumpmap to get a good specular effect. Good to know! Maybe I'll add a very low reflectionmap to it later to make it look more realistic in its environment.
Please tell me again what you think! I depend on your opinion...
Here is another test with a different colortone... do you like this one? I've also darkened the shells a bit... I think I have to rework the color of those too...
bradjames
04-04-2004, 04:02 AM
in my eyes its a thousand times better..great work
RodrigoRosa
04-04-2004, 04:23 AM
great work Da3X... amazing improvements....
very nice! i think you got the sliminess down ;) keep it up
goose
04-04-2004, 07:33 AM
sieht echt wahnsinnig geil aus!!!!!!!!
kanns kaum erwarten bis die kreatur zum animierten leben erwacht!!!
Looks like all of you are excited - great! :dance:
So I'll stick to the newest version for the slimy texture.
With the darker shelltexture I'm not so happy... it has lost some detail and looks to dark. I'll go back to its last version and try some other things.
The bottom segments of the body will receive a different material the next days. The concept shows a different appearance for that part and I'll try to implement it that way.
To keep you in action I've finished another turn-around animation which shows all the details of the last rendering.
Version278.avi (http://www.xfolio.de/Version278.avi) DivX PAL 10.8 MB
The next update will feature the reset shell texture with improvments in the detaillevel on the head. Maybe I can update the bodys texture at the bottom too. Stay tuned and leave your feedback - I need this!
Avatar-3DT
04-04-2004, 12:25 PM
The brown body looks ok, just a few things 'tho. Maybe you can use just a lighter shade of brown and for the spots, instead of black, you can use even a lighter shade o brown or the same brown you have now on the body. You could also use a specular map from the bump it self. Just see what happens. As for the shell, try grey stone with lots of bump and displacement maps.
Avatar-3DT
04-04-2004, 01:35 PM
15 minutes worth of work. No reflections, no specular maps. Just Diffuse, bump and displacement and two omni lights.
[X]treme
04-04-2004, 03:08 PM
avatar are those procedural or hand-done maps?
if its procudural, how'd you get that "irregular"-cellular appearance?
@Avatar: I'll try some different brown color variations for the diffusemap. I personally like the current map. The more blured one with less details before looked to boring imho.
Your example texture looks a bit to dry from my point of view. I expect a slimy snail to look wet and shiny. As for the bumpmap yours comes close to mine so I suppose you are satisfied with this part. Let's see what comes out next with my efforts.
As for the shelltexture I more like it to look like bone instead of simple grey stone. It makes it more interesting. But I'll try some more things again... maybe I come closer to yours.
Maybe I find some time today...
MrArmless
05-04-2004, 07:29 AM
Hello Da3x, I've been following your thread for awhile, you're working hard, congrats it's really comming forward. One crit I could give you is that for a long time something with the rear end of the snail didn't seem right but I didn't really know what you could do with it. I think I can explain it as so : right now it looks like 3 seperate pieces that move in and out of each other, like goblets stuck into each other, but it really should feel like one piece, with the folds created by the skin stretching and comming back (dunno if this is making any sense..)
Ie : I think the folds should be less pronounced near the bottom and really show that it is one piece of soft flesh, with the folds being deeper on top. Perhaps make the bottom more squished too, like a snail and it's very soft tissue that doesnt really support itself (muscle without bone) anyways, those are just ideas, do what you want it'll be gr8 anyways :D
Avatar-3DT
05-04-2004, 12:15 PM
I just want to give you an ideea about what i thought. I was thinking about a beast living in the mountain and that, like a worm eat earth, dhe was eating stone, thas growing stone instead os bone. But you have freedom to do as youi please. As I said, this is a 15 minute work. As for the question of [X]treme, this are maps I've found in the 3dsmax, maps, creatures folder.
@MrArmless: I've tried to come as close to the concept as I can with my limited skills. But I know what you mean. As I found the reference picture of the snail looking for a good comparsion with my body texture I realized, that a snail normally lays flat on the ground. The concept only flattens the snail in the middle of the body with those segments. I've also thought about changing the mesh ones more but it's to late for those things now. I've decided to stick to the concept and the mesh is final. I hope I can make it better within an animation later... if I can manage to movement of the segments at the end it should look fine - we'll see!
@Avatar: I'm still happy that I was allowed to use your concept for this project. I've allready learned alot of things I was never capable of before. Let's see what comes out at the end...
Sadly I've found no time yesterday so you'll have to wait some more for a new update... but stay tuned...
The last days went by without any glimpse of time for texturing... so this thread has been quiet. Today I've found some time and finally concentrated on unwrapping the rest of the body except the legs. I've spent some more time on the slimy look and spread it all over the body.
The scaling of the texture is not the best in some areas but the diffuse, specular and bump will stay like this now. I don't want to throw away to much time with trying different textures. I'll now concentrate on the seams of the different areas and the scaling of the texture. At the end of this period I want a finished body and shell texture.
Afterwards I'll start unwrapping the legs which will be very complicated. I hope to get through this some time so I can start rigging this thing.
Any comments and critics are - as allways - very welcome! So please let me know what you think. That includes all others who didn't participate here yet - and good fellows too ;)
Avatar-3DT
17-04-2004, 12:58 PM
The shell looks allright now, sort like a crab shell. The hornes also look ok but I see you've decided to use the snail skin texture all over the soft body. I gues the unwrapping was hell, hm? Anyway, good luck with the rest of the unwrapp and texturing and keep up the good work.
The unwrapping was indeed very complicated. But I've learned alot and the worst part is still to come. I'll hopefully be faster with those new experiences now... we'll see!
I have not forgotten about the stone in the snails mouth. The texture will change in that area and I also want to change some bump details in the head area to reflect your concept better.
The lower part of the body allready uses a different texture because those segments also have a different look & feel in your concept... the animation shows that a bit better.
Version310.avi (http://www.xfolio.de/Version310.avi) DivX PAL 11.1 MB
The animation above took 15 hours this night... I like to see this all in motion everytime but I'm not sure if I will stick to those animations for all the next updates... maybe I limit them to the more obvious changes.
Stay tuned for more... I hope to find some time soon!
I've found some time and made some tests with a stone in the mouth of the snail. I have to admit that all of them looked terrible. I think I should forget about that stone and keep the snails head as is... but with changes to the bumpmap! Some first improvements can allready be seen in the following image. I've also separated the eyes from the rest of the texture. Their color is only temporary for now.
Avatar-3DT
20-04-2004, 12:18 PM
Eyes? I never put eyes on the beast, but if you feel she needs it... As for the snout, if you think its too hard to texture, feel free to do as you want. The bump map looks pretty nice but that made me wonder: if the bump map looks so good, why can't the stone texture?
The stone simply made it look wired... it didn't look right. It was not the stones texture but more the head alltogether with the stone... my girlfriend asked me what this should be and I realized that it simply looked strange and unusual with the stone if you don't know that it's in it's mouth.
Thanks for the credits for the bump :) It has just started... I plan more time on improving it all over with several small details.
rubberduck
23-04-2004, 04:57 PM
This little critter is looking better & better;) What kind of texture will the legs have?
I'm not sure yet... I've spent so much time learning to create a good texture for the body that I didn't even really think about it.
Today my girlfriend is out with her sister and I will find some time. I hope to finish at least the specular and reflection maps and to fix the seams between the several textures. I didn't found any time since the last update yet... can someone hold the clock for some days?
I've spent 2 more hours improving the textures today. The seams between the several areas are somewhat better now and I've also tweaked some bump- and diffusemaps. As far as now I'm mostly satisfied and will most propably start with the legs when I find time next. The current textures are nearly final and will only experience minor changes from now on. I need to progress with this project... otherwise it takes to long.
The JPEG is not the best quality... had to go down to 50% - so please have a look at the high-quality PNG renders:
WIP38a.png (http://www.xfolio.de/WIP38a.png), WIP38b.png (http://www.xfolio.de/WIP38b.png), WIP38c.png (http://www.xfolio.de/WIP38c.png), WIP38d.png (http://www.xfolio.de/WIP38d.png)
If you find any serious problems please let me know. All other comments and critics are welcome as usual - PLEASE tell me what YOU think!
Years have past since the last update... at least it seems so... I've not found much time over the past 2 or 3 weeks and so this thread has been very quiet. Today I can give you another update!
Until the last update I used to have a single texture for every material ID... alltogether this summed up to 18 different IDs and textures - some not yet finished. At last I came to the point where I realized that this can't stay this way. Handling the textures (most 1024x1024) in PhotoShop and 3DSmax has been a pain and was no longer acceptable. So I took the time and rearranged all materials on a single texture which now meassures 2048x2048 pixels. This a much better approach which I should have used from the beginning. But thats the deal with the first real texture I guess. I've learned my thing!
The new texture has been rebuild from scratch - I only used some patterns from the old one and used the same techniques as for the old version. For now I'm satisfied with the outcome. Only the bumpmap might need some improvments here and there... we'll see.
I've also applied a simple map to the sidelegs and started the texture for them. I'm still very doubtful with their current state... suggestions are appreciated!
I've also redone the lightning and removed all those omni lights from the scene. I use only three area spotlights with the MentalRay renderer at this point. The shadows come out better and the bumpmap has got some more details through the lightning here and there. I hope you like it.
Have a look at all the HI-RES versions linked below. The preview image is of low quality. An animation won't follow until I start the rig for my beast... the rendertime has become far to high.
HI-RES : WIP39a.png (http://www.xfolio.de/WIP39a.png) WIP39b.png (http://www.xfolio.de/WIP39b.png) WIP39c.png (http://www.xfolio.de/WIP39c.png) WIP39d.png (http://www.xfolio.de/WIP39d.png)
Avatar-3DT
04-05-2004, 05:34 AM
It looks really slimy now but i think the texture for the body might be too dark. As I said to you before you could try a lighter brown with darker spots and areas (like a old man's skin if you know what I mean). Anyway. Great look for now and I hope for more updates.
Great! The jury likes the slimey look! Finally! Thanks! :dance:
I've tried several different color tones before and found this the best looking of all. So I'll stick to this texture. For the legs I'm still not sure where to go... but maybe I get the deal sooner or later...
I said I won't do it... but I did it! I was so curious about the 360° turn that I made my notebook render one PNG image after another. It took quite long but now the animation has finished. Nothing has changed compared to the last preview!
Until the next time I plan to texture the front legs the simple way and to lower the shadows of the areaspotlights. Maybe I can manage to improve the legs texture too... we'll see...
Version358.avi (http://www.xfolio.de/Version358.avi) 360° DivX PAL 9.95 MB
Today I've tried to texture the frontlegs! The result is acceptable - but far from beeing perfect. I'll need much more time with those I think. Nevertheless, here is the current outcome...
The upper frontlegs of both sides have been textured and this is the part most finished. I've also started the foot from the left frontleg which was very hard to unwrap. It's current texture is the least satisfying for me. I'll have to try some different things there... but I wanted to show you what I have right now.
Watching the legs with their current texture it gets more and more clear that I'll need some displacement to bring the muscles to live... maybe I'll continue with the displacementmap the next time... not sure yet.
Please let me know what you think!
HI-RES-Versions: WIP40a.png (http://www.xfolio.de/WIP40a.png) WIP40b.png (http://www.xfolio.de/WIP40b.png) WIP40c.png (http://www.xfolio.de/WIP40c.png) WIP40d.png (http://www.xfolio.de/WIP40d.png)
Today I've tweaked some things here and there - nothing spectacular. I once more realized that my skills in this area are still very limited, but for my first texture I'm quite satisfied!
Except the details on the frontlegs the mesh has been unwrapped finally. The last faces will follow with the next session!
HI-RES-Versions: WIP41a.png (http://www.xfolio.de/WIP41a.png) WIP41b.png (http://www.xfolio.de/WIP41b.png) WIP41c.png (http://www.xfolio.de/WIP41c.png) WIP41d.png (http://www.xfolio.de/WIP41d.png)
Mwhahaha
11-05-2004, 10:34 AM
Hey, Image looks great.
But in your first post with the screenshot of Max your viewport art looks really hi-res.
Is that a Max6 thing or is there somewhere I can tell my viewports to be Hi-res?
I will often pull in some concept art but its always pixelled to death and I can never see the detail I need.
THanks
RodrigoRosa
11-05-2004, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by Mwhahaha
Hey, Image looks great.
But in your first post with the screenshot of Max your viewport art looks really hi-res.
Is that a Max6 thing or is there somewhere I can tell my viewports to be Hi-res?
I will often pull in some concept art but its always pixelled to death and I can never see the detail I need.
THanks
open max and pres ALT + W on a viewport... is that what you wanna know?
@Mwhahaha: The screenshot looks smoother than it is because it's scaled down from 1400x1025 to 800x600 in Photoshop... thats all. The concept art is the simple viewport background image. Nothing special.
LIMBAUL_ABIGGOR
12-05-2004, 03:27 AM
looks nice but i think the shell should be darker than the under side of him, that just me cause the ubder side is hard to see the details maybe make it less glossy :) but nice job
not sure about the floating sky thing going on , :p
This thread has reached an impressive length over the last months! I want to thank all who took part for their comments and critics. I've decided to finally come to an end and this will be the final posting.
In the beginning and up to the very end I've planned to fully texture and animate this beast. But my time has been very limited and today I have to admit that I started to become tired of this model. I won't animate it in the near future... maybe I continue with the rig sometime later - but I can't promise that.
I've finally unwrapped the complete model and finished the texture. It's not perfect but should be good enough to avoid beeing flamed :) Please keep in mind that this was my first handpainted texture ever! I hope you like it. The next one will get better - I promise!
The pedestal I've used during the WIP session has been replaced by an older gras field I've modelled sometime in the past. It's not the best environment for an evil snail but it fits quite well. I've also changed the sky to something darker and tried to adjust the lightning to the new situation.
@Avatar: I hope you are satisfied with the outcome of your concept image. Thanks again for granting me the permission to use it. It is a great beast and I've tried my best to bring it to life.
Here are the final renders:
FINALa.png (http://www.xfolio.de/FINALa.png),FINALb.png (http://www.xfolio.de/FINALb.png), FINALc.png (http://www.xfolio.de/FINALc.png), FINALd.png (http://www.xfolio.de/FINALd.png)
Avatar-3DT
20-05-2004, 02:07 AM
Great job D. The image seems a little too drak to me but it might be my monitor. You did a great job and I hope this thread helped you impruve your modeling and texturing skills. And if I helped provide you with a challenge, well this was my part in your work and I'm glad I have been of some use. Good luck with your future projects and I hope to hear about you soon.
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