View Full Version : Character: Natalie (This will be a laaaarge project)
12-03-2004, 01:25 AM
I've started this project a week ago more or less, and I think now I have something to show you. This is a very important project for me, cause I want to do a full rigged character, with and without clothes, and I want to create the environment too, so it will take me a lot of time.
Here you have the body and the legs. I still have to work more on that part, but I think that can be showed. C&c really welcomed.
12-03-2004, 01:27 AM
thats looking asome, the detail is realy realy good keep it coming
however as a cirt i think the knees could use some fine tunning
12-03-2004, 02:48 AM
Nice i am selfe doing a female right now (in 3d) :D This gives me some insperation :!!!:
12-03-2004, 03:03 AM
Wow, a female with normal proportions.
This is really excellent. Looking forward to following your progress. :)
12-03-2004, 08:15 AM
:D ust joking
we need to do that soo we dont die.
This is COOL show me a lowpolymeshwireframed image
13-03-2004, 01:57 PM
laaaaarge project my a$$
I want more pictures:!!!: :!!!: :!!!: :!!!:
looking good, she looks great from behind, but the toes look a little weird
marcia: i agree its great to see, modelled with normal proportions and the body still looks hot, slightly ironic though that photos are airbrushed for unrealistic perfection and as 3d artist we go for imperfections for realism
this project should be a great achievement if you reach the goals you have set, we'll be here helping you man
Originally posted by mat
looking good, she looks great from behind..
hem.. what do you mean mat? :D (just kidding..)
Woody: awesome! i really like proportions, you'r coming to a real impressive character!
14-03-2004, 02:22 AM
Great stuff, Woody, and welcome to a world of pain and tweaking. Prepare to become obsessed!
Anyway, I really want to wait untill we see some arms and a head etc. For now, I think the only thing to pay attention to is the ankle joint, something doesn't look quite right there. Keep it coming, as mat said: " we'll be here helping you man." :D
14-03-2004, 04:06 AM
Thanks for the comments to all. I don't know why, but for some reason the forums were not loading in my computer this days... Now I have no time, but later, if the site is still loading I will put some wires an a very, very small update.
Originally posted by Mr.T
hem.. what do you mean mat?
i see where i went wrong Mr T, the way the words came out werent the way they were meant to come out, i just meant her back view had fewer problems than the front, but thankx for pointing it out to everyone who is apart of this thread ;)
will be more carful with my wording in future
14-03-2004, 01:36 PM
Here's the little update. I've changed a little the knees and I've done a little larger the lower part of the legs. I've been changing the topology to prepare the model for creating wrinkles in the stomach when I move her. So if now you see nothing diferent in that part I've done a good job :P.
I'm happy you find my model with "normal" proportions, cause this is exactly what I'm trying to do, a real character with imperfections.
Some of you toldme about problems in her feet, so I've done a closer render of them (a little overiluminated, sorry :P).
14-03-2004, 01:36 PM
Here are the feet.
14-03-2004, 01:40 PM
And the wires... but I will post a better ones when I finish the modeling, or when I finish the body.
14-03-2004, 02:39 PM
Wow, it's safe to say you understand not only the human anatomy, but the true female form also.
The little details that you modeled instead of texturing impresses me, but I think the roundness of the ankles are still off and maybe the veins stick out a bit too far.
Also, this is a problem in all 3d breasts, I've circled it on the attached image. Whenever I see 3d breasts from this angle something doesn't seem right, it's like they're not resting against the body right. On yours it could just be lighting causing the issue though.
Can't wait to see updates.
15-03-2004, 12:04 PM
Well, I don't think I'm an anatomy expert, but I use a lot of references. It's impossible to know all the details of a body.
Maybe you are right with the veins, cause I don't know how this will look with texture and a better lighting, I will have to test it. And maybe it's the lighting what causes that problem in the breast, but I have a lot of bugs in all the parts arround the arm hole (the breast, the shoulder, the shoulder blade...), and I will tweak it when I have the arm attached. Anyway, I know what you are talking about.
21-03-2004, 12:17 AM
Here you have the hand finished. Tell me if you see something wrong.
21-03-2004, 12:48 AM
Well, it's look pretty good to me and perhaps you could show a side view of your hand to see the "fat" cause i think it's a little bite thin...otherwise i think it perfect, and very nice so go on keep working....:)
oohhh and i forgot to ask you if you work from a sketch that you did or from a picture reference?
still good anyway...
21-03-2004, 04:32 AM
I think it looks pretty good... when I study my own hand in a flat, relaxed position, though, I see a slight upward incline from the base of the fingers to the knuckles, then the back of my hand from the knuckles to about mid-line (corresponds approximately with the base of the thumb) continues to slope upward ever so slightly, then it sort of plateaus (may even look like a bit of a dip) for a short distance, then it begins to slope upward to meet the wrist. It also gives the impression of increasing thickness in cross-section.
So I have to conclude that the back of the hand is not really the flat plane it appears but, on closer inspection, has its own subtle curves. Study your own hand. I compared mine with my husband's, which is naturally much heavier and thicker, but has the same basic anatomy.
21-03-2004, 10:25 AM
Thanks for the comments, I'm agree with you. Here's a render from both sides. There's nothing diferent from the last update, and seems obious that it's too much thin, so I will tweak the back of the hand.
I'm using picture references, but the problem is that I have no reference with the hand from a top, bottom amb side views, so I'm modeling with no references on the visor (that's probably the reason of the proportion problems).
21-03-2004, 12:57 PM
Ooohh, what a boring tweaking session :ugh:. Well, I think I've solved the problem, but at the end I didn't now if I was doing it right or wrong, or if I was doing a hand or a foot :p, so tell me if it looks better.
I come from a traditional clay sculpture background and I think your anatomy is excellent. Really first rate. The only small suggestion i would make is turning the feet outward just a tad. A standard posture is usually with the feet forming a "V" as opposed to converging "^" or parallel "u".
I look forward to seeing how you do the head.
21-03-2004, 04:43 PM
You need a bit more fat where the thumb connects to the hand... and at some more "EMPH" to the hand dude... as in look at the side view, look how skinny that hand is... bulk it up a bit more dude... but good job!
The thumb looks a bit strange to me. Especially the last picture shows that the thumb seems to be bent wrong - it tends downwards. Nevertheless it looks great. Keep it up!
22-03-2004, 06:10 AM
I think it looks a lot better now, more realistic. The area where the hand connects to the wrist needs to be smoothed out and better integrated. I agree with Da3X about the thumb position, although it's much improved over the earlier version.
It may have been a long, boring session, but next time that part of the modeling will be easy for you because you studied it so intently. :)
22-03-2004, 07:53 AM
IHIHIH NIIIIIIIIIICE WOODY !
it remember me , the time when i was making my woman char ... i have no time since december :'c , but one day !!!! i hope i will continue her !!!!
i must work more !
and stop playing ! lol
cheers woody !
i can't wait to see her face :)
22-03-2004, 08:22 AM
:eek: :eek: :eek: just awesome.
22-03-2004, 12:07 PM
Thanks to all for your comments. This is what I've changed this morning. I've corrected the thumb position and the strange bend, added a little volume to that zone and lots of really diminute changes.
Tomorrow I'm gonna start with the arm (I hope, if I have time to work), but tell me if you find more things wrong, cause I will do a last tweaking session before attaching the arm to the body.
kgg -> Yes, you're right. I will look at it when I finish with all the arm. I'm looking forward to see how I do the head too, :D.
Jason-Lavoie -> Sorry, but I don't know what you are talking about??? What "EMPH" means?
Da3X -> Yes, you were right. I think now it's fixed.
Marcia -> "The area where the hand connects to the wrist needs to be smoothed out and better integrated." Sorry, but I don't know exactly what you are talking about. Maybe I've fixed it, but I don't know (My english sometimes fails me :p). But yes, I hope the next hand will be easier for me.
SAPPER POPOV -> Yes, I remember your character. Were all waiting for updates!!! Stop playing and start working NOW :D.
zortech -> Thanks!!!
22-03-2004, 01:00 PM
Yeah, it looks like you fixed the wrist issue. This is really looking great. So, we can count on you to write a tut when you're done, right? ;)
23-03-2004, 12:53 PM
I'm not sure if my modeling method is really pedagogic, cause I do lots of tweakings on "finished parts" continously, but I can try to write something. :D
Well, here's the arm. I still have to do some little tweaks, but it's near to be finished so tell me if you find things wrong, cause the next time I work I will rotate it to attach it to the body and will be harder to change.
23-03-2004, 01:04 PM
i think personally that the veins need to be toned down
23-03-2004, 11:32 PM
it's still perfect to me, except the line in th red circle i think this line should join to the elbow bone like the green line or something like this, anyway you are doing a very good job....
and are you working from a reference picture?
keep going, wanna see more...
24-03-2004, 09:59 AM
DoperMan -> I have the same problem with her feet veins. I don't know if once textured the exagerated "bump" effect will be seen as exagerated as now, or if it will be reduced, cause the actual lighting and texture highlights a lot all the holes and protuberances, so I don't know what to do with this.
Dragonkiss -> I'm using references, like the one I've attached (really this little size I'm using :( ), but I have no good reference to put on my visor. And as you can see on the image I think that part is correct, or almost it's similar to the image.
24-03-2004, 11:34 AM
this is breath taking...it looks so real. I can't wait to see this project unfold
24-03-2004, 11:47 AM
Wow, you doing a great job on this model;)
24-03-2004, 12:15 PM
Your anatomy is pretty consistent with reality in the disputed area, but it needs to be a little wider behind the elbow, and curve just a bit (look at your reference again) on the upper arm side.
Part of what you're seeing is the tendon end of the triceps brachii (plus the flexor carpi ulnaris in the forearm and others), where it comes around from the back of the arm so the extensor tendon can connect to the ulna (the larger bone in the forearm). That's what allows us to extend our arm the way yours is shown. Bear in mind that the triceps start out with three narrower branches at the shoulder and upper arm, then unite to become one largish muscle in the back of the arm. Then it connects from the back of the arm to the ulna via a long tendon that wraps around the elbow joint and ends up on top.
If that was a confusing explanation (anatomy without pictures!), try googling on "arm anatomy" or "triceps brachii" to get a visual reference.
And I like the way the veins stand out. To me, it adds to the realism. jm2¢. ;)
25-03-2004, 12:16 PM
Wooow... thanks for your anatomy class, Marcia! :D It was dificult to understand with my language problems, but I think I've got it more or less... the practical part at least :p. Have you studied something related with that??? It seemed like a doctor's explanation.
I've tweaked that part and a few more, but there are no updates for the moment. Now I'm in the attaching process, and I have an anatomical question, maybe anybody can help me. I have problems with the shoulder blade. You know if when the arms are in a relaxed position (the tipical modeling position, for example) this bone is visible, or only when the arms are in certain positions??? or it depends on each people??? I don't know what to do with that part.
26-03-2004, 01:12 PM
Sorry, the explanation even confused me. Hope you were able to get some use out of it.
The shoulder blade, you are talking about the scapula. Yes, it can look different from one person to the next, depending on weight and musculature, and also the movement or position of the arms and back. On a slender female, they would be visible from the back; however, how much would change depending on her posture. If she's sticking her chest out, they would be much more noticeable than if she's slumped over.
I should say that the scapula always has the same basic shape from one person to the next, but is larger on men. If the person is fat, it may not be so noticeable, and if the person is very cut, it may be more noticeable, but you will also see more of the shape of surrounding muscles.
I studied Anatomy and Physiology in both high school and college, mostly as a way of avoiding physics. Got an extra dose of dissection one year because my lab partner got expelled for bouncing our pig's eyeballs around the lab (yes, they really do bounce... bonus physics lesson. lol.). :eek:
26-03-2004, 01:44 PM
it looks like the arms were modelled after a more slender woman, also the hands look a bit large compared to the diameter of the arm. i can't find a flaw in the rest of the model you have there!
28-03-2004, 12:04 PM
Its a great job overall, but if you'll pardon the pun, one thing that sticks out like sore thumb, is your thumb. It looks way too long and ALOT fatter in comparison with the other fingers. Have attached pic of hand I did for a character at work. Cheers!
28-03-2004, 02:03 PM
I've finished attaching the arms to the body, so here's the "finished" body. I still have to tweak lots of little things, but more or less will be that. Now in the side view I've seen that the wrist is really thin, and maybe the arm is a little large too (thanks Stuh505), so it will be another thing in my to-tweak-list, but I think I will take a rest with the body and I will start with her head, and when I finish I will go back to the body.
This time I had no space in just one image, so there are two :p.
Jango -> I don't know, but I think the thumb works well, and the thumb of your hand looks too much little for me :D. Maybe were looking to diferent references.
Marcia -> "bouncing our pig's eyeballs around the lab"... beeeej :crazy: A friend of mine is studying biology, and he told me about what they do with rats... really disgusting :p
Well, here are the images. C&c welcomed, as usual.
28-03-2004, 02:04 PM
And the second...
30-03-2004, 07:16 PM
Excellent job so far. Looking forward to seeing the face.
BTW What kind of lighting are you using?
I'd like to see your reference pics.
31-03-2004, 05:36 AM
It's looking great. She needs more prominent shoulder blades, though, like you were asking about. I'm looking forward to seeing the head, too. :)
31-03-2004, 07:22 PM
Great model man. In my opinion she could be a little more curvy :D , but its great work nevertheless. It's cool that you decided to deviate from the generic 3d babe. Keep up the good work.
01-04-2004, 01:35 AM
Thanks to all for the comments. I don't know when I will post the next update, cause I've just started the head and now I'm ill and I have no forces to stay more then 10 minutes in the computer, so lets see when I can reestart working. :(
Anarion -> The lighting is very simple, I spend no time doing it. I'm using Brazil to render, and there's just and skylight and an area light. I will post a ref pic the next time I post something, when I will be a little better and I can stay more time here.
Marcia -> Yes, it can be, really I'm still not sure with that. Maybe with the head attached to the body I can see better that part. I note it to my list :D.
Phynius Gauge -> Thanks, man. I wanted to do something real, so I thought the generic 3d womans will not work. And I find more attractive that kind of woman that the others. :o
05-04-2004, 08:52 AM
Finally I'm alive, but I've been a week ill :( I worked a little more in her head, but nothing to show yet.
Anarion -> Here's a ref pic of the woman I'm trying to do. I've obtained lots of her, but none in the standard modeling pose, so it's not really funny to model that way. :grr:
05-04-2004, 10:51 AM
MM i love porn ; O haha well awsome model woody.
05-04-2004, 11:40 AM
nice work so far,
i think the area below the collar bone needs work it seems off, maybe a close up pic?
i understand you want to deviate from the generic now fit/ sexy 3d women, but this women looks pretty used up ;) damit.
05-04-2004, 11:51 PM
hey it's good you show your reference picture so that we can can compare now:)
even if your model is very good to me, i think there is some parts to change a little bite maybe , to fit more with your model, anyway, it's pretty hard to modelise without the good reference pic, so i respect your work a lot....:) anyway, perhaps you could show us a rear view of her cause i think your model's butt is a little bite larger then her, of course i not sure... so if you have a "butt view"....:)
anyway keep going it's very good...
06-04-2004, 01:19 PM
I think I will have to censure the ref pics I will post... :p
cgstripe -> Yeah, maybe that area will have to be tweaked, but I will do it with the head attached. Anyway, I will do a closer render when I have a little more time.
Obviously, she's a really beautiful woman, and this is my first serious full model so I want to do something nice, but what I wanted to deviate was that tipical 3d woman with really big breasts and a perfectly smoothed body. I'm trying to do all the bones and little "imperfections" she has, to avoid that.
Dragonkiss -> I post here one of the few refs I have of her back view, but for the moment I think I will post no more ref cause the people is starting to confuse the target of this thread :D. What I had noticed last time I saw the body was that maybe the legs were too short, but really I'm not sure...
Well, I don't know when the next update will be, cause it seems I will have more work this days, but I hope to have something to show soon.
07-04-2004, 03:13 AM
ok now i see...yes you made her butt to large...you have to imagine her in the same position you've did her....so her butt is more thin.....for the moment this is the only stuff i see..if i notice something else i let you know...:) anyway it's very good don't worry, it's just a matter on details now....:)
07-04-2004, 04:05 AM
Those shoes are weird. :D
07-04-2004, 05:03 AM
Those shoes are weird.
Prolly cuz that's the only thing she's wearin'? :D
07-04-2004, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by lilCara
Prolly cuz that's the only thing she's wearin'? :D
LOL. Noooo. Go back to the first reference photo... they're really, really pointy and about six inches longer than her feet. Last time I saw shoes like that was on the Wicked Witch of the West.
Poll: How many of you guys even noticed she was wearing shoes??? :D
07-04-2004, 02:58 PM
Belive it or not I did. I noted to myself that those shoes must be hard to walk in on a possibly muddy forest floor.
The heels sinking into the ground and all. :D
07-04-2004, 06:58 PM
WOW! okay the gal is fine but that freakin mesh is mind blowing!
In fact it is so impressive I can think of nothing to say....
other than this.. I do hope you are classifying your work n progress for that would make for a very impressive tutorial becouse the one out there are not impressive at all [just my opinion]
the method you use is most curious?
08-04-2004, 12:11 AM
First of all, YES, that shoes are really, really ugly. But don't worry, I'm not gonna model it :p.
Dragonkiss -> Ok, I will try to compare with more refs when I finish her head.
EBOLII -> Thanks. Really I'm not doing something strange. I've learned from the mythic Joan of arch tutorial, I use more or less the same, just extruding faces and edges, cutting edges and all that things. What maybe I'm trying to do diferent is adding lots of details and trying to create a realistic anathomy. I don't know if I'm gonna make a tutorial or how will it be, but I think what helps most are the wires, and I'm gonna post all the wires you want when I finish.
14-04-2004, 10:03 AM
Cgstripe askme sometime ago for a closer render of the collar bone area. Here it is (nothing changed from the last render, just another view). I have to say that I will finish that zone when I will attach the head, and I have to explain that "bones" just under the collar bone. In the actual position of her body it will not be visible, and that zone will be smooth. I will only show that bones (with a morpher I supose) when she bends her backside.
And this is a little stopped for the moment, but I will try to find some time to work on this this days, and to show you something of her head in a week or so.
23-04-2004, 05:32 AM
Here you have some shots of her head. It's not finished, I still have lot of work to do on her neck, I have to do all the inside of the mouth and tweak a few things more, but I think it was time to show some progres.
So tell me what do you think, if see looks as the references I posted before.
hey, nice modeling there!
like the reference pics too!! :D but I think the face is a little too flat on the front...
...nice work though... wanna see the textures!!
23-04-2004, 07:41 AM
hey nice modeling but like it was said before, i think you didn't have a profil view of her face, and you had to guess how she could be, right? 'cause i think she'snot so flat, i don't perhaps she's really like this but i have doubt....nice modeling anyway, it's just a detail...
23-04-2004, 09:19 AM
Nice, but I agree with the others that she has a flat face, and you could also improve the ears, take a look at them, especially the bottom part (see antropus ear tutorial).
P.D. A cascarla.
24-04-2004, 05:57 AM
Face too flat on the front.
But the features look pretty good.
24-04-2004, 02:36 PM
Yes, you were right. I think there was a few bugs in the same zone. I think the external part of the eyes was too forward and that's why all the zones arround looked flat... If tweaked it, and I think it's better, but I don't know if it's enough.
Youre close! I would say you still need to move it a bit.
Move the forehead back a bit, and the bridge of the nose forward--and you should be there. Looks really good otherwise.
how long have you been modelling and
what program did you use?
And can you post a wireframe of the feet? I want to see how you detail it if you dont mind. :)
You might also move the chin forward a bit--but anatomically there are people with faces like that.
26-04-2004, 10:04 AM
I will try to do some more adjustments to the head, but tomorrow I will start with the inside of the mouth, and then I hope I will see the head with more perspective.
kgg -> I'm using max 6, and I've been working on the head for a month more or less, but I was a week ill and other on holydays, so we're talking about 2 or 3 weeks... Unfortunately I have no much time to work, and I usually can work 3 or 4 days of a week, just a few hours each day, if it's a good week. So really, I don't know how long I've been working on that... :p
Anyway, here are the wireframes of the foot.
26-04-2004, 11:50 AM
Great looking head;) But I think the forehead looks a little flat and boxy, the cheeks needs to be more rounded IMO, maybe pull them back some. I don't see any earlobes?
Thanks. Great feet.
I am using maya but I seem to see the best polygon meshes with max users.
27-04-2004, 03:45 PM
I love the work, only the head seems kind of square to me.
28-04-2004, 12:24 PM
Thanks for the comments. I will try to fix a little more that problematic zones arround the eyes, trying to have a more rounder head. I've been working in the inside of the mouth, and I've finished it. Here are the teeth, just to show you something.
rubberduck -> I now she has a strange ears, and seems to have no earlobes, but this is one of the few thinks I have a reference of, so I'm sure she has the ears that way... She just has strange ears. :p
28-04-2004, 12:58 PM
hm, i think that outside area of the eyes and around there should be pulled back to give the head a rounder look
i mean it doesn't look that bad, but its not very accurate to the ref. pics as far as that part
otherwise, i think its one of the best woman models I've seen (hi-poly at least) people always have proportional problems (myself included...) and alot of other little vertex problems on the human body
nice job so far! :D
28-04-2004, 02:00 PM
the head looks too boxy I must say, and the "ribs"...well I don't like it, they make her look like a zombie or somrthing out of the dawn of the death. her nippples are nice maibe to big but maybe your references are that way only thing there is that ou need also model the (I don;t know the word) aureola, the "brown/pink" area around it, and the breast could help a little if it gets a little upper. (do that make sense?) great model Man
28-04-2004, 02:41 PM
Woody - This is awesome work. I always get a kick out of some of the crits given to female anatomy on this board...hehehehe, seems more like some personal tastes coming through instead of crits...'butt too big', 'breasts not round enough', etc... Personally, she looks fantastic!
The only thing I seem to agree with the group on is that her head looks a little 'blocky', but then maybe she really does look like that! Won't know for sure until the hair goes on. Keep it up, looking forward to more!
30-04-2004, 12:27 PM
Thanks another time for the comments, they really helpme a lot.
I've been working on the head, and I've tried to fix all that bugs, I hope now it's all solved. If you think that now the boxy look continues I would create a kind of hair mesh to compare with the references, cause now I don't know what more to change... :p
As you can see I've attached the head to the body, so told me if you find something wrong about that. I still have to tweak some more things on her body and add some more edgeloops in some parts of the body and the head, but this is near to be the finished version.
30-04-2004, 12:29 PM
And here's the body with the attached head...
30-04-2004, 12:29 PM
And the last one...
30-04-2004, 12:59 PM
VERY nice! looks awesome and extremely anatomically accurate
great job so far!
Girls usually dont have veins sticking out on the top of their hands and the face isnty working but maybe it will when there is hair. Otherwise is looks great!
30-04-2004, 01:42 PM
The body is awesome, but... the head needs work. It is much too boxy. Cheek bones don't just end like that, they slant backwards with the rest of the face, which I think is too flat as well. The top of her head is also too boxy. And I had another look and the back of her neck is flat and needs detail. She could use slightly larger lips in my opinion. I think if you fix these things your model will be a masterpiece (not that it already isn't :) .) Keep up the good work.
02-05-2004, 11:43 PM
So the head seems not to be finished yet... :p I think I'm gonna fix some things I what to tweak in her body, and then I'm gonna create the hair mesh. Maybe that way it's easyer to see the correct head shape.
I'm planning to do patches to create her long hair. Anybody knows a faster method to create the patches over the head than cloning and moving each one??
03-05-2004, 07:09 AM
So Wood y are you going to send a pic of this model to the girl from the photo?
03-05-2004, 09:44 AM
Maybe it's just me, but IMO her thighs, butt and ankles looks too big compared to the rest of her body and her head is still a little boxy looking, don't get me wrong, it's a great looking character:)
04-05-2004, 03:43 AM
she has a massive forehead, you need to do something about that, and for the ass and thighs, im not so sure, because what you need to fix first is her back, it doesnt have the shapes it should have, also the woman from the reference porno works out, and thisone just sits on her ass all day...
05-05-2004, 12:46 PM
OOOOOoooookaaaaaay!!! I finally have seen the light!!! Now I think I've understanded what you were saying with "boxy head". I was just tweaking in the side view, and I think that the boxy look was in the front view. Now I've tweaked that, and the head is much more rounder, and I really like how it looks... but there's no pic yet... :P
Now I'm tweaking lots of little things in all the body, adding edges to the zones that will need to be wrinkled. I think I will finish soon and I will put the "finished" version (just the modeling on her, of course) and the wires.
secobb -> It's a good question :D. It would be funny to show the model to the girl, but anyway, I don't know how to send it to her :p.
rubberduck -> I don't know if the ankles are too big, but I've compared the model with my references too see if the body proportions were right, and it seems she really is that way. But you're right with the head, I hope this is solved in the next update.
keescopyright -> I don't know what you see wrong with her back :dunno:
07-05-2004, 05:41 AM
Here's the "finished" version of the body. I've just changed little things, so they will be dificult to be seen. What I've changed the most is the head shape... I think that finally it's ok, but lets see what do you think.
07-05-2004, 05:42 AM
07-05-2004, 05:43 AM
07-05-2004, 05:44 AM
And some wires...
07-05-2004, 05:45 AM
The last one.
07-05-2004, 05:49 AM
well woody, i think you have something really good now but yo know it..the only thing i would say it's about her face the profil look really flat to me, but if the reference is like this you don't have to change anything....wait for texture now...:) go ahead...
07-05-2004, 03:06 PM
do you have a life? because that must have taken forever!
07-05-2004, 07:01 PM
You know I am constantly looking around at what people do in 3D and I must admit this is up in the top 15 I have ever come across
I have an odd request? a yes or no will do me fine with no feelings on my sleeve. We discussed earlier about how much you learn from reviewing wire frames. If you are willing can I get some high quality wire views so that I can study your mesh techniques? Because from what I see you are perfect.
I look forward to the next batch of updates
07-05-2004, 08:44 PM
It is an awesome looking character, but, the earlobes still looks weird/wrong IMO;)
08-05-2004, 11:33 PM
Thanks to all for the replyes. Now I think I will have to do a little pause on this project to work on another things, but I hope to do the next updates soon.
Dragonkiss -> Before doing the texture I still have to model the clothes and the hair, so there's still modeling work.
anouser -> :D Yes, I have live. The problem is that I didn't have all the time I would to work on this.
EBOLII -> Yes, no problem. Tell me, do you want wires of specific zones or in specific views?? I learned a lot from wires of other people, so I will post anything you request. (except the max files, obiously :p)
rubberduck -> Anyway, probably the ears will not be seen cause the hair will hide it, so no problem with that... :D
09-05-2004, 04:37 AM
Excellent model, Woody. You've really put a lot of work into this.
I think the issue about the back is that she appears to have no shoulder blades, and there is also musculature on either side of the spine that should show at least a little. Other than that, she looks just about perfect to me. :)
09-05-2004, 12:58 PM
loooove the model....flows....although about the flatness of the face....maybe this can help...though i dont think u'd like to go back to that stage...anyways....i noticed that the two corners of the eyes are on the same plane...which isnt usually the case.....the outer corner is deeper than the inner ones....and try setting the eyes deeper with repect to the face....and push the outer dies of the lip corners a little deeper...that would round up the face nicely........ur model looks really nice though....will trun out to be a really cute woman!!:)....no crits on the body....just compliments!!....waiting to see updates.
09-05-2004, 02:01 PM
Not sure what you mean by zones vs views. Will be greatfull for anything your willing to post, concerning what you think is best as far as learning. Do you prefer to post them or send them email?
09-05-2004, 03:58 PM
How do you make the wires soo heavy black?
10-05-2004, 12:47 AM
Marcia -> I've worked on that, but maybe I've didn't done all tweakings needed. Anyway, when I rig and skin the character I will try to make the shoulder blades more visible when she moves the arms.
hells angel -> I will revise the model one more time, cause this seems to be the problem that more people say. I think she's a little flat-face, but anyway, I will try to search for other references of her... maybe with a diferent reference I can see what's wrong. I think the eyes are good now, but maybe you're right with the mouth.
EBOLII -> I was asking if you wanted reference from the front or side views, or if you prefered to see how the hands (for example) were made. I will post some wires that I think are useful. Almost, I've learned from wires like that.
IDownupI -> I wanted to try the wires that way, to see how they look, but I think the traditional wires are better :p. I've used the lattice modifier in max, that creates a 3dwire of the model. You just have to clone your character, and use the lattice in one version and no meshsmooth on the other version. But I think I would not do the wires that way anymore... What do you think are better, the last wires or the wires I'm posting now???
10-05-2004, 12:48 AM
the front head
10-05-2004, 12:50 AM
The side head
10-05-2004, 12:51 AM
And finally the hand, that it's always a funny part... ¬¬'
10-05-2004, 01:58 AM
i prefer the new wires....easier to see detailll.....
and can u post a smooth of the body without wires??....would like to see that too....thanks:)
11-05-2004, 11:42 AM
I think renders are better than the smoothed version in a visor, but here you have... :p
11-05-2004, 09:11 PM
amazing attention to detail in your model, Great work
12-05-2004, 01:17 AM
i dont know what exactly but she doesmnt seem right from the side, like her body is helled over to far forward, I guess its something like that, you fear the comicbook lines so much you dont want to use them even when their necessary, give her a little back man...
12-05-2004, 08:15 AM
very nice attention to detail i must say...although i do have a certain crit....
she semms to be a healthy woman...well rounded if u would.....and in such a case...the ribs on the top of the chest and the sides wouldnt be so visible.....they would be very subtle...more like added through textures...that too shades of diffuse maps...not even a bump.....cos the ribs would be so distinct only in an anorexic female...or soeone with fat in the wrong places......just an observation....i could put up a few references if u like.....nice work though...keep em coming!!:)
12-05-2004, 11:33 AM
hells angel -> Yes, I know in this pose she will has to had "invisible" ribs. But what I'm planning to do is to create some morph targets with the ribs that way and with no visible ribs, and this way I would have the controls to make the ribs visible when she bends her body to one side or to the back.
Now I've started with her clothes in my free time (not much cause now I have to do another thing), but I will try to update soon.
17-05-2004, 01:20 PM
Here you have her trainers (I think this is the name in english :p). Now I think I will have to do a real pause on this to finish another project, but it seems I can't stop doing things on this project, even if it's just few time a day... :D
great modeling so far Woody :)
her face looks to flat, it looks like you model only in side and front view . try looking at 3/4 pictures of her face and also model in a 3/4 view (and after that 360 degrees tweaking, rotate a bit and tweak, rotate again and tweak again... and so on )
18-05-2004, 11:40 PM
I've done a few changes on her face, in the eyes zone and in the mouth zone. I think now there's no diference with my model, cause I've compared with lots of images. Maybe the hair will help to see how this is going. When I put it... someday...
19-05-2004, 05:55 AM
Very....VERY nice you gonna animate a strip scene with here or something? :D
Good luck with the project
26-05-2004, 07:47 AM
madmenno -> :D :D :D... No, I don't think so. This would be really dificult, with all the cloth dynamics... And that's not my project idea.
Here's the first update with her clothes. Hope you like it!!
26-05-2004, 07:51 AM
26-05-2004, 09:34 AM
her underwear look a little loose
26-05-2004, 01:07 PM
I've changed a little her panties, to avoid that loosy look, but it's dificult to see. I can't see nothing bad in her bras, so I didn't changed.
What do you think about the underwear, looks loose or looks ok?
26-05-2004, 01:08 PM
26-05-2004, 01:56 PM
wow, that is amazing
I am not worthy.
I love the model its awesome.
The underwaer looks good... can't complain!
26-05-2004, 09:24 PM
oops! clicked on organic models hehe. thought I'd check this out. everything is looking great to me! keep it up, man! I'm working on a scene at the moment but once I finish that (a month or two hopefully) maybe I can talk my girlfriend into letting me model her. I hope it'll look as good as yours. Later!
26-05-2004, 11:38 PM
you rule! ill give my comp to be able to do that! =] looks great! nice referance :P
27-05-2004, 07:17 AM
Looking pretty awesome there Woody. I'm glad to see you working this one fully before jumping into textures though. Having said that, I think texturing will really bring this to life, but patience is the key. Great stuff man. :)
27-05-2004, 12:43 PM
if you can then post another referance pic from another pose and what her name?
28-05-2004, 12:26 AM
Thanks to all for the comments!!! I will finish with her clothes as soon as possible.
MonteCristo -> Really the textures will be the last thing I do, I first will finish all the modeling, then rigging and skinning and... well, lets see how I do her hair. Anyway, the texturing proces is the only I don't know exactly how to do, so it will be the last one.
Bloodkiller -> I found her with various names... Natalie, Ruby, Nastasja... But I don't know her real name, she seems to be just a model for nude photography. I will try to post another pic, but when I will be better, cause now I'm ill (another time, fourth in less than a year :grr: ) and I was just checking my mails and going to the bed another time...
28-05-2004, 12:59 AM
for the hair`s u can try ...http://www.ibmr.net/Ornatrix/
It`s first beta and for free ...but.....
I think her gap between the leg on the underwear seems to wide...anyway i want to know if i can model my blood veins using subd..:)
31-05-2004, 07:33 AM
stunning work, how do you plan on completing the hair.
The shoes are awesome as well.
31-05-2004, 08:00 AM
This Is Really Impressive Work Woody !
But I Really Cannot Help Myself......Oh No.....I'am Doing It Again.........The Side Of The Head Reveal What Needs To Be "Tweaked" To Make This A Great Looking Head.
Right Now Its Impressive, I Mean The Whole Body.
But If You Call Me To Zoom In On The Head With The Printed Version Of The Side View In Front Of Me, The First Thing I Will Do Without Your Permission Is Redraw The Eyes Backward[Deeper]One Eye Distant.
Now For The "Personal" Stuff: How About Making The Face Taper More Abit ?
But Please Note That I Myself Is NOTHING When It Comes To Expert 3D Stuff, So You Can Choose To Ignore This Thread.
01-06-2004, 08:23 AM
No updates for the moment, but I'm back from my illness, so tomorrow I will continue with this work. Let's see if I can post her t-shirt (don't know if this is really the name in english of what I'm gonna do) soon.
bobpuls -> Thanks for the link. I've downloaded it and I've seen the tutorials and the gallery. I hope that they will have the product finished when I will have to do the hair, but can be a good help.
snowMAN -> Really I don't know yet. I was thinking in the tipical planes-with-texture, but maybe a hair generator as shag or the one bobpuls said could be great to... I think I will do some tests before deciding me.
Bracer -> I don't know, but in the final version of her head all seemed to be working. Anyway, now I'm doing the clothes and when I finish maybe I will see her face with more perspective.
05-06-2004, 01:34 AM
I've been working on her t-shirt. It's not finished, I have to add wrinkles and some assimetry, but the general shape is finished.
Don't mind the colors, I've just done fast renders with default colors.
06-06-2004, 06:03 AM
ah, much better, yea some wrinkles in the shirt will help, get some hair on her head though:)
06-06-2004, 03:50 PM
This is some great modeling.The shirt needs wrinkles.I hope you'll be adding them soon.Keep posting.Great work,
06-06-2004, 10:37 PM
Looking good bro. I still think the head needs work (too flat maybe)? But that's just a personal preference. No crit's on the technical side of things. I guess the head just doesn't look all that feminine :dunno: . But the body is all chill. Keep it coming dude :) .
07-06-2004, 11:42 AM
Here's her top. I till have to tweak a few things (like that bug on her back near her but), but it's more or less finished. What do you think of the wrinkles, are they ok?
Aichi-Val -> Yes, hair, good idea... maybe it can work... I will try... :D Really, I think I'm gonna add the hair before rigging her, to see how she really looks.
Phynius -> I decided not to tweak more the head till I add some hair, cause I will never end. I hope with it will really see if it's wrong or not. I hope you see her better then :p.
07-06-2004, 11:42 AM
And the side view
07-06-2004, 08:03 PM
*goes and finds rope to hang myself*
ok hmm...must find something wrong...*two hours later*
well usually those shirts have slits in the sleeves, just a thought:p
07-06-2004, 08:25 PM
i mean it
08-06-2004, 10:24 AM
looks great:!!!: :!!!: :!!!:
and you forgot the referances i asked for
08-06-2004, 10:32 AM
Thanks for the coments. I will fix that bug on her back and start with her jeans asap.
BloodKiller -> Yes, you're right, I forgot, sorry. Tomorrow I will post it for sure. Are you thinking in a special pose??? Cause I think I posted front and back views some time ago.
great work Woody, the shirt looks awesome :)
09-06-2004, 10:09 AM
Very nice work :cool: The shirt has great detail!
09-06-2004, 11:04 AM
Thanks another time for the comments. Today I've just started her jeans, but nothing to post yet.
Bloodkiller -> Here you have another image of her. I don't know if this is what you were asking for...
09-06-2004, 12:13 PM
She's very pretty...
and so is your model :P
I've some pics of Natalie but they're maybe not so good as references :)
Or if you're gonna use them because your model kicks ass anyway ATM.
10-06-2004, 03:38 PM
It's coming well.The shirt looks better now.It'll be great if you could make the shirt a bit loose rather than fitted to the body.
11-06-2004, 06:44 AM
Here are her jeans, another time with no wrinkles yet and with this beautiful colors... :D
Cayheraz -> What I have is not good as reference too... But I do what I can combining images...
11-06-2004, 11:38 AM
this is so impreswsive there is nothing one could possible say?
11-06-2004, 12:49 PM
Very nice pants :) .
11-06-2004, 07:47 PM
just a smile of appreciation...woody.....very nice work....!!!...love to follow this thread till end!!!
13-06-2004, 08:37 AM
Amazing project woody !! even though your model looks really good, I'd rather be with the girl in the photo :p
I have to say though that looked from the back, she doesn't seem to fit the real lady's proportions. She looks somewhat fatter in 3D...I can't still say precisely what it is. Maybe the ankles are a bit chubby...maybe the legs proportions from the back.... Probably her butt is a bit down....don't precisely....
Overall I think she should be a bit more slender.
could you post a wire of the sneakers? They look terrific.
can't wait to see more ! keep them comming...
13-06-2004, 09:07 AM
wow.....guess i missed a lot of good stuff while i was gone!!!.....woody.....whats that word i'm lookin for...umm....oh yeah..."flawless"..........keep that awesome stuff comin!!:)
13-06-2004, 02:31 PM
Thanks for that nice comments. I had really few time to work this weekend, I reserved this night to finish her jeans, and I think I've finished, but this night my computer will be rendering (cause I changed the light set and it takes more to render), so you will have to wait till tomorrow to see all the clothes finished :p.
nico3d -> Here you have the wires. Tell me if you want other views, but it's late, I'm sleepy and I just taked this one... :D
13-06-2004, 02:50 PM
thanks a lot woody....
the shot is ok, it's a bit dark to see the wires in some places though ...
did you use references for it or "solo a ojo" ?
14-06-2004, 02:14 AM
great progress made here. i like the way you started with the figure then built it up layer by layer. with loads of detail even though it may never be seen.
Keep up the good work and cant wait to see that render.
14-06-2004, 12:01 PM
Sorry for the wait, but the renders took me much more than I thought. Here's all the modeling finished (except the hair). Maybe I can tweak few things yet but it will be more or less this.
nico3d -> I try to use references of anything I do (or almost in this project), cause the "solo a ojo" system give me worst results. I found some pics of this sneakers, and that's why I did that (and cause I like it, obiously). I only changed the "W", cause in the reference it was an "M". :D
Nibby -> Sometimes I don't know it I'm doing too much details, but this way I will be able take images of anything. I'm trying to do a kind of virtual model able to "work" anywhere.
14-06-2004, 12:01 PM
And the side view, as usual...
14-06-2004, 12:11 PM
just excellent !!!the clothing is very nice and the chest area looks amazingly real. can't wait to see the hair, that's gonna pretty tough !
14-06-2004, 01:45 PM
love the clothing :) the creases seem really well positioned :) the upper back seems to be quiet ironed tho, seeing tho the rest is quite wrinkly :) not important tho :)
how are you going to do the hair are u going to model it like in box fom, try and model each starnd, or use a plug in? :) i'm quite intriged :) i planned on trying to model strands of hair for my first character project, not sure that'll ever see the light of day tho :)
good luck with it :) and great model :)
EDIT: overdose on smilies! weeee :)
14-06-2004, 08:12 PM
First off, this is one great model, I'm loving it. However as much as I hate to nitpick, there are some small things which are keeping your model from becoming a full blown superb and realistic peace of graphics. I think you should devote just a wee bit longer for tweaking and modeling, before moving to the texturing itself.
First off, something seems a bit wrong with the hands in the front view. Besides the thumb, all the fingers seem extremely skinny - a little too much. It shouldn't take you too long to address this, so I think you should at least do that.
Secondly, and I know it's been said, but the face has some very un-human characteristics. It's as if most of her facial components are entirely flat, and I've never seen anyone look like that, perhaps besides certain Asian people. Anyways, I know it would probably be a hassle to start re-tweaking the face, but It's practically the only thing that's truly bothering me. Oh and last thing is the ears, which look very good, however they seem to connect to the head in an odd manner, did you model them as one unit? Just wondering.
Again, I'm nitpicking, but if you truly get every aspect of the model right then it would be truly amazing, and after all the time you've put so far, it would be a shame to neglect certain aspects.
16-06-2004, 04:00 AM
Ok, let's talk about the head :D. As Drew Carey says, lot of people tell me about the flat face, but I still don't know what to tweak to solve it. Here I post the last renders of the head, the wires and some more references. Lets see if you find what's wrong, cause I really don't know what to tweak. Please, help meee!!! :mad:
goronking -> Really, I'm intriged too with the hair, cause I still don't know how I'm gonna do it... :P I will have to explore the systems and think wich will be better, but I still have to decide.
16-06-2004, 04:57 AM
hi woody, i tryied to show you how you could correct her face, i think you can do that easly, it would a pitty to not correct this little details the modeling is perfect save her face....:) just give her some more deph she's really too flat and if you look carefully your pic ref, you'll see she not as flat as you reproduce her...i htink you just have to move some vertex in the back, just select all her skull and the jaws parts and move them in the back you'll understand directly what i mean then...good luck...
16-06-2004, 05:36 AM
Hi Woody, I'm gonna try and pin this down.
-- First off, her cheek bones or more accurately her cheek bone area is problematic. The face needs to curve evenly in the cheekbone area where as your model kinda corners, if you know what I mean. Try and pull back the entire cheek/cheekbone area and make it curve more evenly.
-- Secondly, the bridge of the nose - the area where the nose reaches the eyes is a tad too flat. It seems Natalieâ€™s nose IS indeed small, but I think you've overdone it BY A BIT.
-- Thirdly, I think her forehead is too big. It's kinda hard to picture a woman bald when all of her pics aren't showing much of her head, but just look at how low the eyes are compared to the top part of the head (in your profile shot). They're practically half way through between the very top and the chin. I'm fairly sure it should be a lot closer to the top, or in your case, the top simply needs to be lower as the rest of the face is proportional.
-- An additional problematic area is the jaw line. Look at the front view how the bottom part of the face kind of expands after the chin, Natalieâ€™s face is a lot narrower and her chin is a lot more pointy (sorry for lacking a better way to describe it).
-- As for the eyes, they seem o.k. except that we should be able to see the entire iris (the round part incase I'm mistaking the Iris with a different component) at all times, so I would make that a bit smaller as yours kinda escapes a bit.
-- The lips seem good as well.
Hope I've helped a bit!
16-06-2004, 08:08 AM
Other than the comments in the previous post, I think her eyes are too far forward ie they should be more set into the head.
Btw great job otherwise
16-06-2004, 09:44 AM
Also, IMO her mouth should curve around her face a little more so the corners of the mouth are just a little bit further back. Right now it looks a little too flat. But you can probably accomplish this when you pull her cheek back by pulling he corners of the mouth with it. Anyways keep up the good work :) .
17-06-2004, 04:03 AM
Thanks for the replies, keep them comming, they are really useful. Now I'm doing a list of all I think I have to tweak, with your comments and looking to the references, and I will fix it as soon as I have free time.
The most important thing is to move the eyes back, and then all the cheek zone will move back, the nose will look a little bigger and I will try to round all the cheek zone. I will do little tweaks to the chin, ears, nose, brows... But I think the most important will be the eyes.
17-06-2004, 05:14 AM
hey woody can you make a close up render of her panty for me? to see the way you did it? of course if it's possible and if it doesn't bother you...:)
17-06-2004, 12:13 PM
Here's your render, Dragonkiss, hope it will be useful for you.
17-06-2004, 08:31 PM
I wonder if she realizes that she turned from a girl modelling for cheap porn-pictures to a subject of 3d-art. ;)
19-06-2004, 03:32 AM
Here you have the head changed after a morning of tweakings and tweakings. Now I've see her much better. The only thing I'm not sure is that maybe now the brows are too much pronounced... what do you think???
Chris -> I don't think she knows :D. I hope to really convert her in a subject of 3d art. :o
19-06-2004, 04:00 AM
hi woody, she's much mcuh better now, but hse still needs more depth... but she looks more human now:) even you , you think she's better, maybe a little bite more and i wil fall in love with her...:d
19-06-2004, 11:42 PM
I changed all the brows zone an some little changes, and I think this can be finaly finished. Do you think there's something more to tweak?
Dragonkiss -> I rendered her in the same poses than in the reference images I posted before, and the eyes seemed to look ok, so I decided not to change it. Maybe with the changes on the brows you see her better and yuo can fall in love anyway... :D
20-06-2004, 01:36 AM
i know it's prolly been mentioned before, i haven't read every post in this thread but if you could fix the lighting on the ear so the groove isn't completely black...but i guess that's not important now
looks much better tho
23-06-2004, 06:00 PM
Hi Woody, I love your modeling, you get really detailed! I've been following this thread since it started. There's only been 2 things that have bothered me, 1 - the ear, I'm really picky here and I did a paint-over in the attached area to show how it should look (realistically) and 2 - I see some likeness to the girl, but the proportions on the face are off. The nose for one is too long and her mouth area could be a little more round, oh and the top of the forehead should be brought back a little.
I also have a question about the pose of the head, it looks like she's pulling her chin back quite a bit, is this for rigging purposes?
p.s. I know the side by sides arn't perfect, but it's really hard to find front and side views of models from the internet :)
23-06-2004, 06:04 PM
I agree ^^. I love your model, but I still think the head needs some work :) .
23-06-2004, 09:10 PM
its looking pretty good
i think your face is really close man. i think right now the biggest thing i see is that its just a bit flat. it look as if the face exists on the a plane, when it should exists on a sphere if you know what i mean. like a cross section of the face should sweep back and right now it seems like that sweep isn't there.
i did some outlines but i'm not sure if they'll help. i'm basically trying to illustrate that the face should be sweeping back.
looking good man
24-06-2004, 03:30 AM
Thanks for the comments and images, they are really useful. This days I've been doing the rigging just to change a little. I think this way when I finish (it's almost finished, I only have to fix the fk hand rotation of one arm and a breast system I thought), I will see the head with more perspective and I will see better what's wrong.
Corth -> That's just cause the only side reference I found (now I'm seeing it wasn't a good reference) was that way... :D I don't think I'm gonna have rigging problems with that.
26-06-2004, 01:30 PM
It seems I've finished the rigging. I've been playing a little with it and it seems to be working, and I'm happy with the result (this is not common with my own work), so now I'm gonna change the head (another time) before I start skinning.
26-06-2004, 02:55 PM
woody, where did you learn to rig? I have to start learning rigging soon !!
26-06-2004, 07:41 PM
hey looking awesome!! i have been keeping an eye on this.. really makes me want to get back on my self portrait project... tyring to get this job.. maybe i will get it so i can start working on my stuff some more.. but i was wondering if you seen this???
its really amazing... if you look at the making of vid it shows some very interesting solutions for rigging a female... i really love how they set up her brests and butt.. very nice jiggly motions.. but not too crazy... also some very nice solutions for shoulders... i recommend you check it out..
26-06-2004, 07:52 PM
looking great man!, what about look-at controllers for the eyes???.are you planning to add that as well to the final rig?
waiting for updates :)
27-06-2004, 12:27 AM
nico3d -> A good tutorial to start with rigging is the own max rigging tutorial, the first rigging I did was that. It's not a perfect rigging, but you can learn a lot from there. And when you finish that, you can search for tutorials over the net, it doesn't matter the software you're using cause if you get the idea you can more or less do the same in any software. Anyway, I learned a lot from this guys:
They have tutorials, scripts and files you can download to see how are they done, and there you will find more links to rigging sites. Hope it help you :p.
arshlevon -> No, I didn't seen, they have done a great work! I'm not gonna do that on the breasts and butt just cause I'm not planing to do an animation with Natalie nude doing fast movements, so it will not be apreciated, but if I will have to, that will be a good system for sure (I've seen it before in the breasts, but never in the butt). I actually have bones to move her breasts, but they control if she's horizontal o vertical and things like that, not that bouncing movement. The shoulder bones are nice... I think I can solve Natalie's skining with what I've done, but if it don't work I'm gonna try to do something symilar.
jawahar -> Yes, I'm gonna do it, but this is just the rigging of the body. When I finish the skinning of this I will rig her face, cause I thing I'm not gona use morphers, just bones for her face.
27-06-2004, 06:52 AM
thanx a lot Woody, I'll try them out. I started the MAX one once but I found it too hard when it got to programming expressions since I'm null at programming.
And apart from that I read in a forum that it has a few mistakes which are hard to sort out by beginners...
anyway, I'm gonna give it another shot I guess !!
27-06-2004, 09:13 AM
Head update... Hoping to be the last one :p... well, I've changed more or less what you've said, so the nose is shorter, I've changed a little the ear, the chin, curved a little more the mouth and I've tried to unflat all the zones arround the eyes. Tell me if this time is ok or not, or if it's better at least.
27-06-2004, 10:51 AM
Looks good around the eyes, the only problem that I have is the nose. Its ver sharp as it meets the cheek area, it needs to be much smoother as it meets the cheeks and not as creased, I hope this makes sense.
27-06-2004, 03:37 PM
I would agree that the eyes are much improved (as is the mouth) - but the nose still doesn't quite look right. The nostrils look a little to CG and not real enough to me.
27-06-2004, 04:24 PM
mmm, I think it's b/c the nose is so straight down on the sides, there is no little bobble at the end and the sides don't come out, dunno what it's called
but still good anyways ;)
but the ear....just...make...it...smoother...transitioning to the side of the head...then perfect! it's just bothering me :p your call of course
can you show a close up of the neck (like maybe a 3/4 encompassing type view), especially that annoying muscle thing that goes from right underneath the jaw to the front of the neck...not sure if you know what I'm talking about but I'll find it myself if you post it, i just need some help with my own character
27-06-2004, 07:06 PM
I think you have a little bit of the flat face effect going on. I often see this is 3d models. I'd say grab al the polys around the eyelids, turn on soft selection and just pull it back into the head some more. Same with the corner of the mouth. Other than that, I'd say you have an amazing model. I'm envious.
28-06-2004, 12:29 AM
This night I've been rendering the head, it's more or less the same. I've only changed what Jango said yesterday, cause I was agree, I was not sure of that part while doing it.
I'd tried to change the ear, but I don't liked the result, thats why it's still in the same way. Anyway, the hair is gonna cover that zone, so it will not be a problem.
hpslashluvr -> Here you can see more or less that muscle. I'm gonna post a wire of that later, if you want.
28-06-2004, 07:49 PM
Here are the wires of the neck, hope they help you, hpslashluvr. (Sorry but I had no time to post it yesterday).
29-06-2004, 04:40 AM
I've been doing some quick skinning tests (not really started), and I have a problem. When I move her legs, in the body-leg connection zone, the vertexs of the leg enter inside the body structure in a really bad way. I don't know if I just have to work on the skin parameters or if the leg bones are in a bad position.
Looking at the image, if the red line is where I want the leg to bend, anybody know if leg bones are in the right position or if I have to move them up or down? There's some kind of rule about that??
29-06-2004, 05:50 AM
Your bones are in the right spot up/down, though perhaps they should be moved outward slightly (not much, between 1/2 and 1/3 toward the outside).
The line you have marked for the fold is not where your reference model's leg folds up (see page 4), but somewhere around here (green line):
29-06-2004, 11:39 AM
I'm not sure which picture is right, but when I bring up my leg it fold like right exactly under the hip bone (pelvis? i dunno any anatomy terms ;) ) and makes a pretty straight line down to the middle of my legs. I know that's obvious though. I think cohort may be right or somewhere around there. Stahlberg had pretty good deformations in his body topology thread is all I know, but prolly you got plenty of refs anyhow. Thanks for the wires too.
29-06-2004, 03:46 PM
hello woody, it doesn't matter where your bone is exactly, for me it's the good position, after you just have to set your vertex weight and on the line you show us, put them at 0.5 i don't know if you know how the vertex weight work but when you understand the way it works you can do what ever you want and also use the vertex weight board (i don't know if it's call like this exactly) i just a matter of vertex setting nothing else, i don't see any problem for you skinning part, continu and if you have problem you can ask me, i don't pretend that i know it perfectly but i play enought with vetex weight to know that it's just a matter of weight value between each bones...good luck
30-06-2004, 01:32 AM
Stahlberg does have good deformations. He uses blend shapes that coincide with bone rotations. I'm not sure if you can do that with max, but that methood works great (with only a small amount of weight painting!). The joint looks like it's in the right place to me, comparing with pictures of skeletons is always my prefered way of placement.
Also about the ear... :)
The Helix does not connect with the antihelix like that. The antihelix should curve into the skull on it's own, true there is a small fold where the helix does connect, but it's barely visible and should be done very subtly.
30-06-2004, 06:19 PM
i love this model!!!
i have been looking at it from the first post - i like how you made it like first nude then started adding cloths nice going! waiting to see the last render
30-06-2004, 07:45 PM
Looking at the references the blend zone seems to be the red line. Anyway, I know I can change the weights of the vertexs with skin but even before changing the weights, with the bones as in the image the upper part of the leg entered into the body in a bad way, as if the bone was too down and the pivot of the leg rotation was wrong. I think I will finally have to test the two methods with good weights and decide wich looks better, cause some people tell me that the bones are ok, and some tell me that the bones are to low... :D
Corth -> Yes, I know about Stahlberg method and I will try to do something symilar with this model, but even with more "blend shapes" than he uses... probably I'm crazy :P
BloodKiller -> Thanks, but I think the last render will take some more months yet...
14-07-2004, 02:49 PM
i found something this morning that would be very usefull for you,
the perfect nathalie reference for her profil so that you will see that she 'not so flat like you did...so if you are intersted just tell me and i'll give you all her reference picture....and for the moment i'll give you a sample to see her profil...
14-07-2004, 07:53 PM
I've started with the skining of the body and if I decide to change more things on her head I will do it when I finish (I've tested it and there was no problems with the skinned parts), cause I needed to take a rest from her head. Now the legs are finished, tell me what do you think. I know this are not a really good poses (she's crossing the floor or floating in some places :P), but I just rendered them fast, so if you want I will post some more. At the end I moved a little up the leg bone and used morpher to solve it, but I actually hate all the skinning and creating morphers process... :( It's boooring and really slow, and I've been searching for a good way to create morphers and I didn't find it. Anyway, lets talk about the legs, tell me if you find something that looks weird or that could be better.
Dragonkiss -> Thanks for the reference, but I have this image too (I found a lot of her in that site). But I'm not sure she's in a perfect profile in this image, the head seems to be a little rotated to me. Maybe you're right, but I didn't find an image where I'm sure she's 90º from the camera. Anyway, thanks for your offert.
14-07-2004, 11:20 PM
i know this model is quite skinny, but perhaps her stomach would "sag" a bit more when she is kneeling? like fatter i guess just a tad
but maybe she really is a perfect model! and doesn't do that ;)
14-07-2004, 11:20 PM
Hey, been following the thread.
I think the bends in the legs are great. They deform really well in that squat and the back of the knee is incredible. However there does seem to be some kind of weird sharpness or strange deformity on the inside of the right knee there. I circled it in red. See the pic for locations.
15-07-2004, 01:38 AM
Nice deformations. I'll have to disagree with you ^^ . If you look really closely that's not really a problem with the deformation on the back of the knee, I think its just a shadow :p .
15-07-2004, 07:17 PM
Well, there's a shadow there and maybe what looks wrong is just that, but the fact is that there's a little range of the knee's rotation that has some problems in that part, so maybe both are right. Maybe I will try to solve that in the future, but first I prefer to continue with the rest of the body, cause it's a veeeeery laaaaarge proces, and now I hate the legs in general :D.
hpslashluvr -> Yes, probably you're right, but now I've just skinned the legs, I've done nothing to her stomach yet.
15-07-2004, 08:00 PM
nice work so far man,thos poses make me horny for some reason...:o :p :D :D
looking forward to updates
15-07-2004, 10:11 PM
it's going AWESOME !!!
te aviso que van a terminar todos calientes con semejante mujer :o
16-07-2004, 12:57 AM
thos poses make me horny for some reason...
te aviso que van a terminar todos calientes con semejante mujer
:D :D :D :D :D
It seems this thread is gonna make the nataliety grow... Muahaha... ha... eerrr... ok, I'm gonna shut up... :crazy:
16-07-2004, 01:55 AM
No words. Too astonished to speak.
Woody excellent deformations. very impressive. Keep it up. looking forward to see the rest rigged to that quality.
17-07-2004, 03:45 AM
Thanks. I will try it, but I'm creating looooots of morphers, and this is starting to be sloooow, and I thing max will finish imploding and destroying all the computer or something like that... :p
24-07-2004, 09:50 PM
Really nice, keep up the good work!
26-07-2004, 02:06 PM
A little more skinning. Here you have the arms skinned till the elbow. Now comes a difficult part, cause there are lots of bones affecting the same zones.
26-07-2004, 03:00 PM
Tell me Woody, I'm curious as I'm not a wiz at skinning. Wouldn't you have to re-skin her later with the clothes on? If not, how do you go about adding the clothes?
26-07-2004, 05:16 PM
looks good :D
26-07-2004, 07:21 PM
Great Skinning Woody.
I can see a small sharp edge in the hip area.Well I don't know what it is.Perhaps you should take a look.
26-07-2004, 10:35 PM
i think the sharp edge is suppposed to be the hip bone or pelvis or whatever it's called but it looks strange from the back view
27-07-2004, 03:30 PM
Yes, that thing is the hip bone, and I supose it looks strange cause of the lighting (or I hope :P).
Drew Carey -> This is an important point. Maya has a tool that more or less works as an ffd with the shape of the object you want, so I think you can select the clothes and use this tool with the skinned body, so the clothes will move with the body. But I was searching to do something similar in max, and I didn't find it (a possible new feature in max 7??? It could be great). So I will have to reskin the clothes. I will have much less bones afecting each cloth, but it will probably be really dificult to make some zones move equal to the body... I will tell you when I do it, cause neither I'm an expert in skinning.
27-07-2004, 07:29 PM
Thanks Woody, I'll be waiting to see how you go about it. Did you consider perhaps using cloth simulation (Reactor in Max)?
28-07-2004, 12:10 AM
tHE hand looks bad (the modelling is great) but the animation ;-(
28-07-2004, 01:48 AM
I think this will gonna be a nice tutorials at all!!!
I think is time to model my GF lol
after my exam....:roll:
28-07-2004, 05:15 AM
It looks really really good, but hte hands look odd. The veins, might be a bit too visible. And she's pretty skinny at the neck base and at the ribs. She looks like a fine healthy woman. I don't thinkg she should look skinny. Despite of that, it look GREAT!
29-07-2004, 12:01 AM
Thanks for the comments.
Drew Carey -> I thought it, but I'm not an expert with reactor and I don't know if the clothes and the wrinkles will react as I want... Anyway maybe I will try it before doing the typical skinning method.
shiroii -> In the next update she will not have visible ribs nor that bones under the neck in this position. I modeled it that way just cause I thought it will be easier, but the ribs will only be visible when she blends back. I think this is what you were talking about, isn't it?
29-07-2004, 02:25 PM
I would recommend SimCloth for 3dsMax. It's a very good plugin and it's free (which is rare these days). With it, you can put the clothes after the skinning is done. The help file that comes with it will tell you all you need to know.
If you need help finding the plugin just PM me.
Also, very, very nice work. This is awsome stuff.
Hope to see some more soon ;) :p
Woody really great job so far. I agree about the ribs. but sounds really interesting to see them come out when she moves. great job rigging. keep it up. If you have the money clothfx is pretty good. but it's $$ so...:(
03-08-2004, 03:48 PM
Thanks. I will try simCloth, it seems just what I need and if it works it will save me loooot of time. I will told you, crazygui, if I don't find it. This is a personal project, so I prefer not to buy anything. I supose clothfx would be better if it's not free, but anyway, I don't want a cloth symulation, just avoiding to do another skinning.
But have you seen the new max 7 features??? Edit poly modifier, allowing to control morphs with the rotation of two bones (what I'm doing now with lots of scripts), and a new tool just to solve that cloth problem we are talking about... and I can't wait max 7 to be released to continue, so... :mad: :mad: :mad:
This will be muuch easyer with new max... :( Anyway, it will be easyer for my next character :p.
I will post updates soon.
03-08-2004, 04:33 PM
Woody That's what I meant! :) 3ds Max 7 sounds intresting indeed, altough I'm not a Max man. :D
04-08-2004, 03:02 PM
Here's the update, it's almost finished. She can move everything except the upper arm. She can move it down, but not up, forward or below... Well, it can be moved, but in a gore way. :P
I hope reactor or simCloth will make a good work with the clothes, cause this is so slow...
04-08-2004, 04:23 PM
Nice work on the ribs!!! :D :D :D I'm really impressed about your skills! Great work man!
Is she gonna get hair? That'd be cool :)
05-08-2004, 06:35 AM
Man what can anyone possibly say about this? Great stuff
05-08-2004, 07:10 AM
she looks like she's part of an exercise video :D
altho i've never seen naked ones o.O
05-08-2004, 08:05 PM
Thanks!!! She's gonna have hair, cause it sounds as a good idea. I'm gonna add it when I finish the skinning. But I did a little test with simCloth and I don't know if it will be useful for me. It was just a test, but clothes collapsed in really strange shapes. I don't know if there are too much vertexs or if the clothes are modeled in a bad way for simCloth, but it seems I will have to reskin the clothes too, and this will slow the process... :( Aaaah, if I had max 7... :P
05-08-2004, 09:18 PM
download the demo o max 7 :???:
07-08-2004, 05:21 AM
There's not a demo yet. :( They just anounced the new features.
07-08-2004, 06:02 AM
I can't stand it when companies continue to release new versions every other month. Seems like a money making scam. I use max5 and will be a long long time before I can afford a upgrade. I have a long way until I get to your quality. Your skills a very impressive as I watch this thread very close. I am confident even though slow you will amaze everyone with the solution
08-08-2004, 03:56 AM
Read through the whole thread and this is about the coolest thing I've ever seen! :eek: :!!!:
But one thing is aching in my brain - We HAVE TO find her and let her know somehow!! What if you were modelled like this and never found out about it, that would be really sad! :grr:
I have no idea on how to get in touch with her though...
09-08-2004, 04:05 AM
Looking good as always Woody :) . I can't wait to see her with hair :o .
But one thing is aching in my brain - We HAVE TO find her and let her know somehow!! What if you were modelled like this and never found out about it, that would be really sad!
She'll either be totally stoked, or totally freaked out :p .
10-08-2004, 03:10 AM
awsome work, Im new to charater modeling and I have been messing around with the skin modifyer, I haveing some troubles with the creases near the knees and such I was wondering if you could post a screenshot of the skin process being done just so I can get some better idea?? Know of any good tutorials on skining a charater I have been using the tutorial from the joan of arch and max5 tutorial
thanks cant wait to see updates your work is amazing
10-08-2004, 04:16 AM
EBOLII -> Well, that's the world we live in... just making money. :( Each year a new version, and they are not cheap... but this max 7 seems to have very interesting tools, or almost tools I was needing doing this.
anarkizt -> :D. Yeah, this could be great... I think she's russian, so we can start with the russian telephone list...
Phynius Gauge -> I think the hair will be one of the very next things I do when I finish this. But I'm not sure how to do it. I'm gonna use a plugin, but ornatrix is just a beta and it can cause problems, and shag have to be more stable and I think there's a new version of it (hairfx), but I'm not sure if it's avaliable or not...
R2Wrace2win -> The knees taked me a lot and I still want to tweak them a little more. I can only remember the Joan of arc tutorial talking about skinning... It's not a common subject of the tutorials... Anyway I basically know two systems to solve that.
- In the skin modifier you have a "gizmos" rollout. There you can add 3 diferent gizmos on the vertexs you want (I don't remember exactly how it works...). I don't know if you have to select the joint or the bugle angle deformer, but one of those creates a kind of FFD box that will afect the vertexs you select, so you can change that FFD depending on the bones rotation. I'm not sure, but maybe this method is explained in the standard max tutorials.
- What I'm doing with Natalie, is harder and slower, but it give better results. I'm using morphers to change the knee shape depending on the bones rotation. The problem is you can control easily the morph % with the bones rotation (with max 7 it seems you will can) so you have to use a helper and a script. What I do is this:
Create a helper and align it with the lower bone, so the helper is positioned just were the two bones are bending.
Link the helper to the upper bone and make and orientation constraint with the lower bone.
Open track view and search the morph channel that will afect the part you're working on. Add a float script controler. The script will be something like that:
r = (($Point01.transform * inverse $Point01.parent.transform).rotation as eulerangles).z ;
final = (r-10.2)*0.8;
Point01 is the helper's name.
The ".z;" in the second line is the axis the bones are rotating, so you can change x, y or z depending on the bones. This line give you the angle betwen the two bones. In the skin pose it will have to be 0, but normally you have a diferent value. Imagin you just write the two first lines and the result is 10.2. This is the value I substract in the last line, so when the character is in the skin pose the result for this morph is 0.
So in the last line you have the (r-10.2) that make's the morph start with a 0, and the "*0.8" is a value you have to test to have a 100% with the maximum bending angle, so when the knee is at it's maximum bending, the result of (r-10.2)*0.8 will be 100.
Well, I don't know if I explained it very well... Tell me if you have problems and I will try to do a better explanation.
12-08-2004, 11:19 AM
What You are doing here is nothing short of amazing.
Keep it up.:D
12-08-2004, 05:31 PM
It seems I've finished with the body skinning. I've just done this renders in strange poses just to test it, but I don't like the actual render (it's too laaarge and there are some too white parts and some too black shadows). I will try to change it soon. I also changed a little the head, I've reduced the upper part. I will post closer shots of the head soon. Anyway, now I will start with the hair, but I didn't decided yet... shag or ornatrix??? Anybody knows which is better???
12-08-2004, 05:33 PM
Two more shots...
12-08-2004, 08:53 PM
In the first image it looks like the right shoulder blade has sunk into her body...
Wow, you are doing great, but if you take a close look where the girl is sitting and her leg is up in an "A" form there is a weird pinch going on, you might want to see if you smooth that out.
13-08-2004, 12:26 PM
WoW!! That is a very good model! Keep up the good work...
When are you going to do hair?
13-08-2004, 12:59 PM
on lastestpicutre. my leg skin doenst bend like that.
13-08-2004, 03:38 PM
Thanks for the comments!!!
elros -> Yes, you're right. It was late and I posed her as fast as possible, so maybe moved the arm too much forward or something like this.
Rych & energizerrabit -> I think you're talking about the same. I think the lighting is increasing the effect, but I can try to tweak it a little more...
neo_710 -> I'm deciding if I will use shag or ornatrix, while doing a simple scenery with better lighting and maybe I will do some unwrap, but once decided, hair will be the next important thing I will do.
14-08-2004, 06:01 AM
Here are the closer shots of the (I hope) final head. Now I'm gonna start with the hair, so I could see better if the head is ok or not.
14-08-2004, 11:07 AM
This head looks MUUUUCH better then the original one, I think you have it nailed.
Once you get hair and textures are on this model I think it's going to look exactly like her.
For some reason the eyes / eyelids seem a tad bit off, but I cannot figure out what the problem is. Maybe the missing eyebrows/eyelashes/textures is the problem, we'll have to wait and see.
Update faster please!!
14-08-2004, 02:13 PM
I think what's making her head look weird right now is the no hair. The missing hair causes her forehead to look large. I can't wait to see her with hair!:D
Keep up the great work!!!
19-08-2004, 04:50 AM
I've started with the hair (with the eyebrows) and finally I'm using shag, but I have a problem, maybe somebody can helpme. I've used a few hairs to define the eyebrow direction, but when I move the head that hairs don't move and I lose the right direction. I have to attach that model hairs to somewhere or is there a way to fix the hair when you're happy with the result???
I will try to update soon!
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