Spain to pull their troops out of Iraq

[bullethead]

Well I was watching the news way earlier in the day but past out and forgot to come here to type this to see if anyone else had heard. I dont know what to think. On one hand its a good decision on their behalf because Americans are the ones that want to set new law in Iraq and stop terrorism, but in the other hand Spain was attacked by terrorist and you think that would give em motivation to stay in and help fight the cause to stop Terrorism since it was brought big time to thier homeland....what is everyone elses thoughts about this?

[Jyncus]

I think it's more of a decision out of sympathy for the Spanish citizens (the wives and children of the soldiers).
Err, they just took a huge loss - and I'm sure the last thing the Spanish government wants is more killing of their soldiers and grieving in the country.

*shrug* That's purely my guess of course.. I think it's an understandable decision - but only temporarily.
I doubt the American people would've been very happy if Bush decided to send troops into Afghanistan not even a week after Sept. 11th.

My prayers and condolences to the Spanish familes who lost people last thursday; I hope the government changes or reconsiders their decision as time moves on and the grief fades.
:(

[bullethead]

I agree tottaly with the statement you just made. I really dont have any words of whats gonna be happening now. America needs everyone they can to help win this war that cant be one...lol. I just hope as time goes by they do reconsider but if they dont then I bow down to em for having some smarts in their heads. Only if bush would realize this and pull our troops out.

[RodrigoRosa]

i am really sad due to that decision... and as said by Jyncus, the spain's government would reconsider that decision when the mourn passed off...

the question that remains is: "How many countries will undergo losses like that??"

the terrorism has to be stoped and decisions like that only strengthen terrorism

[bullethead]

And I agree with your statement as well. Rodrigo. Something like this shows the terrorist they have made a very big victory now in this war with the retreat of a ton of troops. But what happened to them is very tragic, and they do need time to heal from this big lose of theirs, but they need to turn this lose into a means to get the ones responsible and to get revenge. I mean, I am in no ways for WAR. I despise war and only bad comes out of it, but lets say your little brother was beaten up by ten bullies, wouldnt you grab your friends and find them bullies to get back from them beating up your kid brother? I know I would, but war is a far differnt siuation, but both do have very close similarities.

[Goig!]

Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism to begin with, as far as fighting groups like Al Qaeda not only it´s been completely unrelated, but in fact has made things worse by increasing hostility.
Besides, Zapatero said that, if control of the forces is passed to the UN Spain will keep a pacekeeping force; they just don´t want to have their troops over ther under command of the USA.

[RodrigoRosa]

Originally posted by Goig!
Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism to begin with

i'm not sure about your statement. Though the USA have not found any proves that associate the Iraq with terrorism, the iraq citizens always dislike the americans (as for the War when the bush's father was on power, as for the ban, and so on), so them could be helping the terrorism (well, if i was an iraqi, i would help that 'cause'). What i am trying to say is that it's complicated make such statement ("...Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism...")

peace

[john silver]

I would say that the U.S. being in Iraq is a magnet for terrorism. Why travel halfway around the world when they're in you backyard. Another thing, the reason Spain was bombed is because they supported the U.S. in Iraq. The real scary thing here is the message this sends to al qaeda or it's affialates(whoever did it, and it doesn't really matter there all on the same team). If they can topple a government with a few bombs, and get what they want, then they'll do it again. I mean seriously, this is a huge victory for terrorists in general.

I also have a very alternative view to terrorism. These people don't have any hope and that's why the majority of arabs support terrorism. They see it as their only hope. If we give them hope they won't support terrorism. I think it would be more cost effective to drop 52" plasma screen tvs on them. You're a lot less likey to fight when you've got 52" of goodness in your living room and a lot less likely to fight when your friends and neighbors aren't being fragged.

[RodrigoRosa]

Originally posted by john silver
I think it would be more cost effective to drop 52" plasma screen tvs on them. You're a lot less likey to fight when you've got 52" of goodness in your living room and a lot less likely to fight when your friends and neighbors aren't being fragged.


rotfl... i am with you john, good idea.... :dance:

[bullethead]

Originally posted by john silver
I think it would be more cost effective to drop 52" plasma screen tvs on them. You're a lot less likey to fight when you've got 52" of goodness in your living room and a lot less likely to fight when your friends and neighbors aren't being fragged.
Originally posted by RodrigoRosa
rotfl... i am with you john, good idea.... :dance:

NOOOOO.....give me the tv instead...:D Thats a good idea though. Its alot cheaper to drop 5000 dollar tvs on someone then a 5 million dollar 5 bomb.

[RBL]

Your answers are in the government. Aznar (the past president) took part in the iraq war, against the country opinion and against the UN. In the last elections Aznar lost and the new president have to fix the several mistakes that made our country into a terrorism target.

[Goig!]

Originally posted by RodrigoRosa
i'm not sure about your statement. Though the USA have not found any proves that associate the Iraq with terrorism, the iraq citizens always dislike the americans (as for the War when the bush's father was on power, as for the ban, and so on), so them could be helping the terrorism (well, if i was an iraqi, i would help that 'cause'). What i am trying to say is that it's complicated make such statement ("...Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism...")

peace

Yeah, sure and if my grandmother had wheels she´d be a bicicle. :roll:
It´s not a matter of opinion, it´s a matter of fact, Al Qaeda didn´t operate, train or colaborate with Saddam´s regime. (http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/breaking_news/6176302.htm) Actually, there was one terrorist organization, connected to Al Qaeda, Ansar al-Islam, that operated in northern Iraq, in Kurdish territory an area protected by the No-Fly Zone enforced by the USA and UK and thus out of reach of Saddam, go figure that.
Al Qaeda was a sworn enemy of Saddam, Osama himself offered to kick him out of Kuwait in 1991. (http://www.worldhistory.com/binladen.htm)
You can make scenarios of probabilities of possible connections because both Osama and Saddam are very bad boys till the cows come home, but it´s just unfounded, improbable and debunked speculation, not the grade of certanity wars should be based on, don´t you think?


Originally posted by RodrigoRosa Spain was bombed is because they supported the U.S. in Iraq. The real scary thing here is the message this sends to al qaeda or it's affialates(whoever did it, and it doesn't really matter there all on the same team). If they can topple a government with a few bombs, and get what they want, then they'll do it again. I mean seriously, this is a huge victory for terrorists in general.

The Spaniards voted for the PSOE because Aznar crossed them one time too many, first, against 90% of the population he goes to war in Iraq. Before the bombings his party had a 3-4.5% advantage over the socialists, a percentage within the error margin of the polls, and, since the numbers for the PP had been constantly dropping for months saying that the PP would have won if it wasn´t for the bombings is simply impossible to know, it was a tight election.
Now, bombs go off and what does Aznar do? he and his goverment try to stick the blame on ETA regardless of the evidence (http://www.guardian.co.uk/spain/article/0,2763,1169070,00.html) , people see the goverment concealing the truth and don´t feel particulary compelled to give the party a pass, that was the straw that broke the camells back.

Cite (http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,3367,1433_A_1146495_1_A,00.html)

Cite (http://www.ipsnews.net/africa/interna.asp?idnews=22921)

And cite (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040313.wspai0313_3/BNPrint/International/)


Now if Al Qaeda wants to make hay out of this, so what?, what did you expect? the Spaniards voting for the PP just to stick it to Osama? Then again the vote would have been influenced by the bombings.
They didn´t vote for Al Qaeda, they voted for themselves; they saw a party that was not acting resposibly, was being manipulative of the truth and failing at it´s obligation to protect the Spanish people; Al Qaeda didn´t topple Aznar goverment, the Spaniards decided that they didn´t want more of the same and showed his party the door out.
Spain has endured terrorism for decades, and has never surrendered or made concesions, if anything they are more motivated than ever to go and get the suckers that blew those trains up.