Apocalypse

[Vertigo]

Hey guys,

I just started this model today and thought I'd post my progress so far. The character is Apocalypse from the X-men comic book. I used to be a big fan years ago and he was always one of my favorite villians. I've been wanting to try and model an overly muscled character for some time now as aposed to the cartoon characters I usually do and thought he'd be perfect for it.

Obviously I've only concentrated on the face thus far and I still have a lot of work to do on the face, but I will still take any suggestions you have at this point.

Here is the first image...

[Vertigo]

second image

[Vertigo]

and the 3rd and final image for tonight...

[Downup]

The eye sockets Looks very good!

But the ... ehh..

Do you have a concept soo i know why u modelling the mouth like that :>

[Vertigo]

thanks IDownupI

I'm kinds surprised you thought the eye socket looked good since I haven't really focused on that area too much yet. But I must be heading in the right direction.

Here is a concept. The pencils were done by Ian Churchill I believe, not sure who did the inking and coloring.

[Vertigo]

and here is a sculpture I found online. I think I like how they did their mouth better here and I may change my model a bit to look more like this.

[Vertigo]

I was able to get another hour and a half worth of work on it this morning and this is where I am at now. I have mostly roughed out the upper torso and tweaked the face slightly. The abs look horrible right now, but I think I'm gonna do a little research before I do much more work on that area.

Does anybody have any reference pics of the backs of bodybuilders? I'm not completely sure how the muscles should look on his back so if you have a pic please post it here.

[Vertigo]

Well, this is as far as I was able to get on him this weekend. Overall its not too bad for about a 24 hour period. I wanted to get more detail into the shoulder and biceps, but that'll have to wait for now.

Come on guys, bring on the crits

[Vertigo]

Today I did a complete overhall of the edgeloops on the back in order to better define the muscles. I have some of the major muscles defined, but they need a lot of tweaking still. I hope to fix those tomorrow and then add some more smaller detail of the muscles into the back and sides.

[Cyrenn]

Good Lord,

I'm in awwww. This model is incrediable. I'm suprised no one has even gave any crits.

I have to ask , which way do you prefer to model.

Especially how do you model your muscles, If you get the chance, I would really like to know.

I'm looking forward to seeing this one complete.

This is just amazing looking.

Cyrenn.

My WIp -
http://forums.3dtotal.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16717&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

http://www.digitalvamp.com
http://www.transformersmovie.com

[Dragonkiss]

pretty nice.... i like it a lot...
but did you really made that in so few time.; i mean... for me to do that it would take me a little more i guess... anyway, there is nothing to say, except that i want to see it finish , it seem good so far.....keep going....
maybe you can post a wire frame....bye

[morinaga]

Chicken and rice!!!


Could you show the wire frame low res and hi.


I like it!!

[dlavre]

Very cool character.
The head is like the reference but you need to smooth a bit the muscles of the body and change a bit the body's pose, is beter for you to use a body anatomy reference.

[rubberduck]

Looks great vertigo;) just need to smooth those ribcages and abs some IMO

[Vertigo]

Thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate you taking the time to let me know what you think about my work.

I couldn't get too much done tonight. I basically added a little more detail in the back and started fixing the edgeloops in the shoulders and upper arm. I think I'm getting the muscle layout right, I just need to go back and tweak out the shapes. I'm kinda over exaggerating the muscles for now as it is helping me see them as I model, so I'll go back and de-emphasize them later. Espcecially the triceps.

Cyrenn - thank you for the great compliment. To answer your questions, I prefer box modeling. Its much easier to me to rough out form and proportion with as little vertices as possible first, then go in and add a little more detail and fix edgeloops as I go. Same with the muscles. After I have the basic form down well enough, I'll look at which way the muscles run over the body and adjust the edgeloops to follow that direction. I'll start with the major muscle groups first and work my way down to the smaller muscles. I hope that answers your questions, if not let me know. But remember, this is the first time I've done a model with muscles like this, so I am no expert by any means.

Dragonkiss - Thank you, and yes I started this model late Saturday so I've been working on it 4 days now. I'm moving along so fast on it because I haven't really done the slower task of tweaking out the form yet. Once I get to that point my progress will slow down tremendously.

morinaga - I'll get a wireframe up for you, but you have to remember that the model is still very early on so I wouldn't really recommend studying the wireframe at this point as it has a lot of problems that need fixing.

dlavre - I totally agree with you on the muscles. I'm still in what I call the rough stages of modeling. I'm mostly concentrating on form and edgeloops right now so the muscles are need a lot of tweaking and they are appearing very exaggerated now. I'll tone them down a lot once I am happy with the edgeloops. Also, I should have mentioned that I am not trying to replicate the concept precisely as it is, I'm more using that as a guide and am creating my own version of the character. Thanks for the suggestions, I appreciate it very much. I hope when I get into later stages of modeling that you'll stop in and offer more advice.

rubberduck - thanks man, I will smooth them but not just yet. And those aren't the ribs, they are the muscles over the ribs.

[Vertigo]

Here is the wire for where I am at right now. Keep in mind this is still early on in the project and the edgeloops still need a lot of work.

[Cyrenn]

I think the muscles look good if not perfect for the comic book look. Nothing wrong with over exaggerating them. I persoanlly think its true to the character.

The over all look gives it power. I mean. Like I will F**K you up power.

Like his bicep will crush your melon like a grape. :D

And he will stomp mud holes in you.:eek:

Good job.

Keep it up.

Cyrenn

WIp
http://forums.3dtotal.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=176477#post176477

[Daniel]

awesome, I saw the head and I knew imediatly it was Apocalypse. Indeed true to the old comic books I used to read. keep it up.

[Teyon]

I think I'll stick my two bits in here.

So far the face and back muscles are excellent and the arm muscles seem like they may go that same route. HOWEVER, the front of the torso is just really not up to par with the rest of the model. I know you're in the roughing out stage and all that but it looks like you took more care in getting the back muscles to look and flow smoothly at this stage than you did the front and I am worried for you that it may cause some extra work in the long run. For one thing, the distance from ribcage to ab is just a bit too much and is the most glaring bit at the moment. I think the entrie front of the torso below the chest area needs some smoothing out at the basic cage level in order to correct that.

I will say that this is the best (and I think only) version of Apocalypse in 3D that I've seen.

[Vertigo]

No update just yet, I just got back from work. But I'd thought I'd post my reply to you guys.

Cyrenn - LOL, yeah I am trying to make him look like the biggest bad ass on the planet, but I do feel that some areas of muscle are so over exaggerated that it is drawing my attention to it and away from his face. So in terms of character design I feel I need to tone down certain areas. Just a little.

DanielB - Thats great that you immediately recognized him. That tells me I'm doing something right here. Since you seem to be familiar with the character, let me ask you something. Is Apocalypse part machine? I never really figured that out and I'm looking at the drawings and its difficult to say for sure. Certain areas, like his neck, look like it could be machine, but it could just be the costume to.

Teyon - yup, you caught me dude. I totally skimmed over the front compared to what I've done with his back. I said it before in this thread, and I'll say it again, the abs look horrible. But I don't think fixing them will be too difficult as I think I have all, or close to all the edgeloops necessary already in there. I just have to tweak the vertices to fix them. I will certainly look into them though. I also plan on making them asymmetrical as I've noticed body builders abs seem to look really gnarled up. Almost like they are twisted in knots. Thank you for the crit though. I need more crits like that as I go on.

I threw some lights into the scene just to see highlights on different areas to better check the form. It really allows you to see mistakes you could look over otherwise, I totally recommend others do this time to time when they model if you aren't already. Here is what I came up with.

[Vertigo]

I barely even had a chance to play around with him today. I basically started on the legs, but I am still at such an early stage that its almost embarrassing to show. But I'm trying to update this thread everyday if I can. I'm looking forward to this weekend where I should be able to get a lot done on him again.

[Daniel]

Uhm, as far as I know Apocalypse isn't part machine, just a mutant. It's been a good 8 years since I read the comics, but I do remember he was the overlord of this alternate reality in X-men, had a son too, so I doubt he was machine. That's from the series 'age of apocalypse' series, which is the only ones I read pretty much. It's too bad I can't just go dig up the old comic books, they're in my old house, live in montreal now :roll: Did a quick search on the net, can't find any info on him either.

[geoMan]

the muscles are awsome...this is some good modelling.....

i really like it vertigo!

[Teyon]

Well, his ability to change his physical structure at the atomic level and tendency to prefer angular forms (see his first appearances in X-Factor) can easily lead folks to assume he has machine parts. Couple that with the cables that run from his gauntlets to some unseen place in his back/sides and it is easy to see why one would assume him to be a cyborg. While his origin story in the Age of Apocalypse does show his early years and that most (if not all) of his features are ones he was born with, no one has ever explained the cables or why he would want to manifest his form that way if they don't serve a function. That's what prompted Joe Maduriera to drop them when he did his redesign for the alternate reality Apocalypse that appeared briefly in the X-Men. So saying he's part machine may not be totally inaccurate.

Now that the speculation part of my post is over, I'd like to say that I think the model is moving along well. I'm glad you noticed and plan to include the asymmetry of the abdominal muscles, as that will add some level of realism to the character. I would also suggest that, if possible, you should extend this asymmetry over the entire body as we are, none of us, perfectly symmetrical.

Post when you can, there's no rush...you're doing this for fun not for profit. :)

Edit:
One more thing:
You may want to conisder defining his collar bone more also when you tone up the front of the torso. As it is right now, it kind of gets lost in the muscles of the chest (which are nice by the way).

Edit again....

I forgot about the collar of his...costume, actually, I think it's his skin just made to look like a costume but who cares?...anyway, that may take care of the collar bone issue though the parts not covered up by the costume's collar still need definition.

[Vertigo]

Hey, you guys are awesome. Thanks for all you feedback.

DanielB - The Age of Apocalypse storyline is when I started reading the X-men too. Though I managed to keep reading on up through the Onslaught crossover which was also awesome. But I still prefer the Age of Apocalypse as my fav story. I'm hoping this model turns out halfway decent, then maybe I'll do another character from that storyline.

geoMan - Thanks for the encouragement. Its always nice to get those kinds of compliments. I hope I can continue to please you with my further updates.

Teyon - Thanks for weighing in on the whole man/machine issue. I'm glad to hear that nobody knows for sure if he is or was part machine. I'd rather stay away from the machine aspect in my model actually. The way I see it is that Apocalypse's view on the world is "only the strong shall survive." If he had to be augmented by machine, it would, to me at least, make him look weak. He would in fact not be among the strong, which would seem to contradict his own beliefs.

These legs are turning out to be a lot tougher than I ever imagined. Those knees especially. There are just so many wrinkles and such around the knees. But I think I'm starting to get the base structure of the legs there. With some more time and patience I should be able to get them. I'm hoping to have the legs mostly finished by tomorrow so I can work on the hands before the weekend is up. Wish me luck.

[Teyon]

Looking great so far. Just a quick structural tip for the thighs...the muscel group circled in red shoud be a little longer and somewhat straighter down the center. Just keep going at this level of detail and you will be getting one of them shiny CGTalk awards. :)

Edit:

I know, I know, wrong forum but that doesn't mean ya can't post it there too ya know...

[rubberduck]

Looks great!;) But something about those smaller muscles on the thighs, looks a little weird, now I'm being picky

[Vertigo]

Thanks again Teyon, I'll look into fixing that muscle group there. It did look off to be too, but I just moved on at the time. But I'll certainly go back and fix it. I think that was the same thing you meant Rubberduck? And go ahead and start nit-picking. I've got so much going on here that I haven't dealt with before that he must just be filled with tiny flaws. So feel free to point them out.

Okay, so far today I've begun work on the boots. The part with the arrow pointing to it is going to be loose cloth, so as you can see I haven't begun to model that yet. Detailed wrinkles in cloth is another new experience for me, so I'm excited to try it out. The shoes part, I was originally thinking, would be more of a regular tennis shoe material, as it is in the picture below. But now I'm thinking it should be more metal like for protection. Which of course would need a little redesigning so he could still flex his foot and be able to walk. I'm hoping to get much more done on him tonight, so I may update late tonight again.

[Nappa]

can i see a wire with facets without the mesh smooth

[Vertigo]

I'm not exactly sure what you are looking for, but here are some links to a bunch of faceted wireframes of the barebones mesh.

Wire 1 (http://amcmahon.250free.com/wire01.gif)
Wire 2 (http://amcmahon.250free.com/wire02.gif)
Wire 3 (http://amcmahon.250free.com/wire03.gif)
Wire 4 (http://amcmahon.250free.com/wire04.gif) Wire 5 (http://amcmahon.250free.com/wire05.gif)

[Nappa]

sweet just what i was looking for i dont think i could make that many cuts in a model and be able to work

[Vertigo]

I'm sure you could model with that dense of mesh if you wanted to Nappa. It just takes a little practice.

Here is another update. I changed the boot to be made of metal around his foot. I also started on the cloth around his shins. I still have a ways to go on that area. Also I started blocking out the armour on his arms and shoulder pads. I've barely begun on the shoulder pads so they look atrocious. But I wanted to get a sense of his size when he had them. I think he looks a lot more intimidating with them on in terms of size. And I think the cape will only add to that sense of scale. But we'll see.

[sarN]

WoW vertigo, your stuffs the best. Does he wear any pants? :o

[arshlevon]

i only have a few crits... i have read lots of x-men.. i think the bridge of his nose is not that long.. his nose should be just a little under his eyes.. and his whole abdominal area needs some work... but the rest is just about perfect.. i love his boots.. they are really great.. his back is also incredible.. keep it up!!

[Corth]

His head and his back are definitly the best parts of this model. All my crits have been said before, and you've replied to them saying those area's were already on your to do list, so there isn't really much for me to say except I can't wait for updates :)

[nico3d]

wow, I love those boots ! the rest too

[Nappa]

Originally posted by Vertigo
I'm sure you could model with that dense of mesh if you wanted to Nappa. It just takes a little practice.

Lol thank but have you seen model its my first human ever second thing i ever model http://forums.3dtotal.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17127

[3dway]

The model looks really good and reminds me a bit of that hulk one that was up a while ago.

Your leg anatomy and abdominal anatomy are a little bit off.

Particularly in the quadriceps

http://orgs.jmu.edu/strength/KIN_425/kin_425_muscles_quadriceps.htm

The rectus femerus does not extend down far enough towards the knee and the vastus medialus comes up too high.

I think this is a result of the reference pic you're working from is super exagerated musculature.

Also take a look for some anatomy drawings of the abdominal area. Pay particular attention to how the intercostals are laid out (muscles over the ribs) and how they tie in with the serratus (little toothy looking muscles up by the armpit)

Also in the chest area, some of the muscles look like they're "drawn on". I don't believe that they run under the skin. It looks a little bit like you just pulled up an edge in the outline of a muscle group. They look pretty good, just there's no depth there. It's one of those things that's hard to describe.

Keep going at it. You'll have a model the same quality as that hulk one, very soon.

Oh and good cloth. it has that elusive believable quality that I can't seem to be able to describe.

You know when you start drawing serious crits that may seem harsh, that you've got a good model and people want to see it be the best. It's when you only get fan boy replies that you know you need to work harder.

[Vertigo]

sarN - Thanks for the great compliment. About the pants... I don't know. I would hope those are at least some spandex he has on :???: At any rate, I did add a cup for some more protection of his ... equipment :D

arshlevon - Thanks for the great suggestions. I looked at some more comics and sure enough some of them show him with a much smaller nose. But not all of them. I did bring the nose up a little and I will try to play with the shape of it some more to see whether I like it more like it is or if it should be shorter/fatter. And yes, as I have said twice now, the abs are horrible but I am waiting until I can collapse the mesh down (it has symmetry modifier on it now) before I go in and tweak them out. After I fix them up a bit I'll let you know any you can tell me if they look better or not.

Corth - Thank you. Yeah, I do have a big to do list building up quickly. But I'm waiting to tackle the small details until I have all his areas at least roughed out. Which I'm not too far off from. I think I'm gonna block out the hands either today or tomorrow then there is still some work to be done on the armour. But after that I'll go in and tweak, tweak, tweak. I love how everybody loves the back, and here I am covering it up with armour and a cape :grr:

nico3d - thank you, but the boots still have a long way to go yet. So hopefully they'll only get better.

Nappa -Hey, we all gotta start somewhere. Just keep at it and you'll learn very much, very quickly both about using the program quicker and how to define form better. I've only been using Max for about a year and a half now. It really doesn't take too long to master if you keep at it.

3dway - Thats one of the best crits I've ever gotten. Very helpful. Looking at the picture you linked to, I can see what you mean by which muscles to fix. But I just can't see the form in my mind's eye yet. I'm gonna have to find more visual reference before I tweak out these areas. I've noticed how the serratus and intercostals sort of intertwine. I do have the edgeloops in there, I just haven't gone in and fixed that area yet. I'm fast approaching the poing where I'm gonna go back and tweak out the muscles, and once I do I'm sure I'm gonna need more help. I hope you'll stick around to offer some more help. You seem very knowledgable of musculature. Me, this is the first time I've taken on a project of this sorts. So its a learning experience.


All right. I've run into a little roadblock. I'm blocking out the armour on his shoulders right now. I still have to add in the plates over his pecs, but the trouble is I'm not sure what to do where the shoulder armour meets the "collar." So if you guys have any ideas on how I should attach these two pieces, throw them at me. Here's a close up of the trouble area...

[Daniel]

this is really looking great. The only crit I have are his legs, they should be elongated I think, they look stumpy, kinda like he's a dwarf. Apocalypse is really tall, he stands over people at an anazing height.

[Cyrenn]

From the looks of it on the comic picture you posted, the shoulder pieces and the collar are all one unit, and that they wouldn't move with the shoulders if it were to be animated. I could be wrong though.

I would just either weld the shoulder plates onto the collar. Or build right off the edge of the collar.

I hope that might help you on what to do about your problem.

Other than that. He looks fabulous.

If you texture him great. This one has to be put up on the gallery section.

Cyrenn

[Stuh505]

yours looks cool, but he looks a lot different from the x-men apocalypse...his full body suit covered up his pecs, and was all attached to the neck collar and shoulder pieces..but the shoulder pieces did not project over his arms and they were much simpler one-piece units.

[Nappa]

well the Pads connect in the back you cant see it because of the cape the collar is connected to his body and he has no So called Equipment lol i got a little draw over i hope it helps should get a good idea and giggle

[Vertigo]

DanielB - Yeah, I've been looking at that for a while now. When I added the armour it really changed the look of him and now he seems short so I'll extend the legs to see how it looks. Initially I was taking him in a much more realistic direction and was going to avoid the mis-proportioned body of the comics. But, Like I said, I'll try it and see how it looks.

Cyrenn - I was thinking it was all one piece too. But I wasn't sure how to attach them. I just found a new pic of him by Joe Maduriera in which the he drew that area just a little different which might solve my problem. I'm gonna give it a try and I'll let you know how it turns out.

Stuh505 - Yeah, I'm going with the Age of Apocalypse design right now rather than the normal X-men timeline version. I was thinking of possibly modeling both versions since basically I would only have to change the armour. We'll see.

Nappa - Yup, I actually already have back of the pads modeled where they are connecting in the back. That wasn't the problem. I was asking whether or not I should attach the collar and shoulder pieces. But thanks for the goofy drawing nonetheless. You say Apocablypse doesn't have any equipment? Man that sucks. No wonder he always looks so angry. The poor guy :D

Well guys, no updates today. I know, I know... commense with the stone throwing :D Actually I was just too busy today. Life just got in the way. I know what you're thinking, "a 3d modeler with a life? This cannot be!" But I was actually working on 3d related work as I was getting some demo reels all packaged up and ready to be sent out. I need to find a way into this industry and for the time being that is taking precedence over modeling. But that doesn't mean I won't still be working on him. I promise updates soon.

[Daniel]

that's cool, I'm sure he'll look great either way, just that I've always been a fan of the comic cartoon proportions :D

[Nappa]

Dont attach the collar to the pad

[rjsmal]

your doing it again man making great S*** 4 real man always a pleasure to see you model ;)

peace

[Nappa]

you should do a Juggernut model after you finish this one and have them arm wrestle.

[Cyrenn]

I could only imagine how cool the Juggernaught would be.

This model is off the hook.

Great job Vertigo. The Boots look tight.

Did you ever figure out what your going to do for the collar.

Cyrenn.

Wip-
http://forums.3dtotal.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=180072#post180072

[arshlevon]

i think this post has inspired me to do a Juggernaught model.. when i am done we can fight them...;)

[Nappa]

Originally posted by arshlevon
i think this post has inspired me to do a Juggernaught model.. when i am done we can fight them...;)

WE you guys can fight them i sit back and watch the blood fly:halo:

[Vertigo]

I'd love to see a Juggernaut model. Strangely enough, I was actually thinking of modeling the Juggernaut, but changed my mind to do Apocalypse at the last moment. Arshlevon, if you're serious about modeling him, I think that it would end up looking amazing. I'm loving your self portrait and could only imagine what you could do with a character like this. In fact, I'd love to see more people modeling characters from the X-men. I'm already looking at other characters I'd like to do. There are so many of them like X-man, Sinister, Holocaust, Phoenix, Magneto, Colossus. The list just goes on and on. But I think after Apocalypse my plan is to force myself to learn Maya. Max has been great, but I need to broaden my horizons a little. Plus, knowing Maya certainly couldn't hurt in my job search. Speaking of which, that job search is taking up most of my time lately. Thats why there's been no updates in a while. I'll try to get something done on him this weekend though. Thanks for all the comments.

[Cyrenn]

The all time coolest villian was Sabertooth. When the marauders were around.

Man I had collected so many comics when I was younger. Got a bunch sitting in boxes. Started collecting Uncanny X-man since issue 170 I think. Stopped back in early 90's

I hate what the movie made Sabertooth look like. They made him all neandrethal like. Like he was some kind of caveman.(Fred Flintstone type)


The original Sabertooth back when he used to kick Wolverines ass all the time. The one with the Huge Main and all, he was also smart and a trained assassin. Trained by the forginer.

Maybe I'll model Sabertooth from the late 80's, The kick ass one.

Cyrenn

[Vertigo]

Okay guys, I pretty much have every aspect of him roughed out now except for the cape. Here is a link to a big pic of him as he is now. (http://www.adammcmahon.com/apoc/apoc01.htm) I'd like some crits on the overall impressons of him so far. Mostly on proportion and the general look of him and his armour and boots, etc. Not so much on the little details yet. In the meantime, I'm gonna start gathering more references on muscles and faces before I go in and start tweaking him out. Does anybody know of any great muscle anatomy books?

[Nappa]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0736041850.01._PE30_PIdp-schmoo2,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg


my favorite

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0684857219.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg


http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0809247151.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

http://health.netezshop.com/related-products/bodybuilding-books.html

[Cyrenn]

Looks like a winner to me.

No crits here.

Can't wait to see him textured.


Cyrenn

[arshlevon]

looks awesome... for anatomy i use this site..

www.fineart.sk

its got everything..

[Teyon]

Awesome model so far.