werewolf

[chaos_seed]

So seeing to much dragon 'rond here I decided to make a werewolf wich is going to appear in a short movie I'll should end on august with some friends.
Problem is our designer is overworked so I'ain't got no refd pics nor any image so I'm doing this only on the feeling wich is quiet hard...
So I'm asking you gys a lot of crits and images or drawings to help me making him "reel" with some plausible muscle structure.
i should have ended him by the end of next week if follow our planning So I'll need all the help you can give me 'cause I'm not an s great modeler and it's been a while since my last organic modeling....
So here I go get your imagination burning !!!!

first ref views

[chaos_seed]

and the tow front and bak in perspective views

[Nappa]

that looks like a alot of polys for leg's cant you get the same look with a bump map?

[JHarford]

Originally posted by Nappa
that looks like a alot of polys for leg's cant you get the same look with a bump map?

eh? you cant model muscles with a bump map -
it is poly excessive but your solution wont help at all.
good start man - i cant think of ideas for you right now - maybe later. keep up the work though. i belive you posted the smoothed wire no?

[chaos_seed]

of course it's the smoothed model ! !! :eek:
Are you crazy how to anim with that res ! ! I'll try to post the toed version tonight as soon as I'll be happy with it

No ideas for ref ....:(

[FCR]

no refs, but tons of pics that might be useful to you: http://www.goldenwolfen.com.
another idea: on http://www.rowsby.com you can find some good stuff. be sure to check his fur tut, 'couse there are some helpful hints.
else you should try google or lycos or other search engines.

[Avatar-3DT]

FCR gave you some awsome reference site but let me tell something: the legs you did do not respect in anyway the anatomy of any living thing and a man could not become that in anyway. The dog like leg is perfect for this because the only part that really changes is the foot, that alongates and flatens to sustain the body.
It will be easy to let yourself swept by the tide to create a hairy werewolf. Remember that hair does not grow over night and even if it grows is rather short. So start from the ideea that this is a man becoming a wolf, not an ape, becoming a wolf. Make hair only where humans have hair. Then the features, they must have some humanity left in them. Don't go with the total wolf features.
Good luck and feed us updates!

[chaos_seed]

here we go !Small updates and problems on feet ...
First of all thanks for the links fcr there on the best pics Ihav since I started this project !!!As for you avatar I know it'll be hard for a human to get to this but in fact I will not have to do the morpher so it could be a nymph with three feet 'bout the same :p But I agree with you on the problemsof anatomy I've got but well...I was thinking that this bacside part h'ad to be musceled 'cause she's carrying all the weight of the body so that's why I made it like that but I do think I'll change thos too melon like muscle for an unique long thin one. Well I'll see ....

Anyway here is a small apdate before going to bed It makes him look more and more to a chiken but I hate those three ronud finger wich normally go with werewolf...I'll puyt those ones and try too get them more like woolfy ones...

Keep on going people and thank's for the crtis and links again !

[FCR]

one thing i forgot to mention: don't exaggerate the muscles too much, especially don't make them too sharp. give him some fat under his skin by blending smoothly from one muscle to another, because imo that will make him more believeable.
and allways rember: there are no rules how to make a werewolf and what he has to look like. it can be a human with a deformed head or a wolf walking upright. or anything in between. just try to keep the common rules of anatomy.
i'll check back later. cheers

[Avatar-3DT]

Do as you like. This is your concept so you have all the freedom in the world. Mine were mear suggestions and advices.

[chaos_seed]

here we go for an update I fixed a few things on the back of the legs that where bugging my anim test and started the upper part It's just a wipp and I only got night to work so It's not exactly how it'll look but I think it's ok....

PS: the tow parts aren't wellded yet !

[rubberduck]

It is looking good;) , but I have a problem with this area, looks wrong IMO, looks like 4 calf muscles too me

[chaos_seed]

what's 4 calf muscle ?!?
I was just thinking that this part had too be pretty musceled 'caus it's the one how carries the hole body and by looking to other pics I found they usualy dont have them but if they have to move I suppose they can't...So that's wyh i gave him these back muscles but as I m'not a good drawer I had to do it without ref pics so just le my imagantion go on those things...
An I must finish this for monday (without the head...)So I'don't have much time for tweaking .But I think I ll refine some part when the main form will be done it's just that we must have an idea of the shape to get throw the layout animation....:(

[Neox]

nope there are no goof trained muscles.. look at some drawings of dinosaurs or maybe photos of birds... there are no muscles that can get this big... remember every animal on this planet has nearly the same skeleton and nearly the same muscles... you don't have such a muscle constellation on the lower side of your feet ;)

[rubberduck]

Look at this ;)

[Avatar-3DT]

In fact, rubberduck is right! The werewolf's weight does not press on the calf muscles, but on the sole! And that's because a werewolf "tip-toes", it moves on the tip of his crepes! Bear in mind that, aldo a werewolf can stand and walk like a man (due to his dual man-wolf nature, walking being a human feature), he runs and sneack like an ususal wolf, and that's in all his four limbs.
In fact, the leg of an werewolf does not transform so much from his original human form! The only part that realy shift is the foot, that alongates until becomes a third segment creating the illusion that a werewolf's leg has four segments. In fact, the leg remains the same. Try walking on the tip of your feet, keeping your knees bended at all time and you will see what I mean.

[owenc1979]

Hi Chaos,

You got a good start there. your Model somehow resembles the dragon i made, but its a pretty good coincidence.:)

Yeah, i think i agree with the other guys on the calf. The creasing is quite deep. But again its your concept, it'll change overtime, esp. if you put texture on it. I cant wait to see the face :)

[chaos_seed]

Yeah well I 'm far rom here at the moment:( Iknow about the calf and think I'll change it but at the moimment I habe to first think about completing the mesh...

But thanks to all of you for the crits ! I'll try to update the torso tonight...

[chaos_seed]

so just a quick post !! I'll put more tomorow !Updated the legs a bit an the torso !

[Avatar-3DT]

You should adjust the feet claws a little bit, maybe give some sort of paw to the leg, it will help you when you'll rigg also. The torso is looking very good for now.

[shagadalex]

Since werewolves don't exist (or we think they dont), I dont really know how to comment on the anatomy :P but try different theories and such and see what you like best!

[Teyon]

The legs still feel wrong. I wouldn't look to a bird or a Dino for an idea, though those would help, I'd go to the source. A werewolf is a man transforming into a wolf like thing or a wolf transforming into a man-like thing so why not look at the hind legs of a wolf? Just seems to make sense to me. Then you can adjust it by adding human features where it would make sense to do so. As an example, and I'm sorry for posting an image in your thread, have a look at a recent Rhino3D model I made. I simply took a dog's leg and and extrapolated what it would look like with some humanoid characteristics.

[chaos_seed]

Yeah I'm now working on the end of the torso try to find where to put muscles...I'll post the update tonight I've finished the upper part and I'll refine the lower part of the leg but not now because I first need to finish the over view...Anyway the idea is that it's a kid dreaming himself as a werewolf so it can be really anything But I to am disliking the lower leg they don't correspond to what I'm willing to have.

[chaos_seed]

here's the small update !!!

[JayEdwards]

If you want some good reference have a look at the Underworld dvd at the behind the scenes stuff and also the Mummy Returns stuff with the Anubis warriors!!

Cheers

[chaos_seed]

yeah that's a good idea I did not think about the momy !!!
Could you send me some image 'cause i'm not sure to be able to aford it these days ...but I'd love to see the work they've done on it !Here is an update of the torso not much more but just reworking....It's still not perfect ....But it's starting to get a good shape !

[Teyon]

Looks good...kind of like that character from Darkstalkers now. In case you don't know the Capcom Fighting game, it's got a very stylized look and this torso reminds me of the werewolf from that game. In other words: I like what I see.

[Phynius Gauge]

Nice model. I want more :crazy: :shout: .

[Avatar-3DT]

Here is a werewolf I've done some time ago. Use it as reference, I hope it will help you.

http://www.visualart.ro/test/data/media/110/werewolf.jpg

[rubberduck]

Looks great!;) , but I don't like the feet, please do something to them:)

Avatar: Awesome sketch;) Which I could draw like that

[chaos_seed]

thanks a lot for this image !!!I'm having a hard time on the back and side muscles of the torso ...
Don't know how they should look like ....
If you have some mor sketch I'll be really pleased !!!
I'm now having to finish the layout animation of the cameras by fryday so I don't think they'll be any update until this week end but I'll try... (or until I finish those). Thanks a lot to all of you for your support !!!

PS I know 'bout the legs my terachers told me the same I'll change the lowoer part but I have no time a the moment

[Teyon]

here ya go. These are concepts from the Mummy Returns.

[Neox]

@chaos_seed: as you can see in all those drawings there is no second pair of calve muscles on the leg, this is just a longer feet with the monster it self walking on his toes not the whole feet as we are doing ;)

[nafi]

looking good. ya the mummy idea is good

[shagadalex]

keep in mind that the creatures from The Mummy are jackals, not wolves. I believe wolves are more stocky than jackals.

[chaos_seed]

sorry for the waiting had things to do lately reworked the hole thing...

[Teyon]

This new one has loads of potential. Looking foward to seeing it done and I'm glad to see the forums and site are back up.

[chaos_seed]

progressing slowly....Have to make the forearm longer and the hand shorter....

[Cyrenn]

Keep up the great work. I really like the design of this character. Very unique.

[chaos_seed]

here's a small update more will come soon !I still have problem on the forearm but I need to keep moving so I'll get back on it later !

[Teyon]

Before you go any further, you may want to smooth the transition from bicep to forearm. He's kind of looking like one of those bendable Popeye toys I had back when the movie was released with the arms like that.

Otherwise, great work I should say. Don't want ya thinking I don't like it. I just don't like the elbow/bicep transition area.

[Chokin Hazard™]

lol wat does this look like???
LMAO

[chaos_seed]

update finished the hand and started the leg .Legs are only a rough in order to get an idea of how the proportion should be !
Will get in detail soon !

[Teyon]

Okay. The legs look blocked out pretty well but you still need to work on the forearms and that transition. Also the transition from forearm to hand needs some work too...he has no wrist at the moment it seems.

[chaos_seed]

here's the progress so far.Been reworking the leg and arm.
still quiet a lot to do.....

[chaos_seed]

more views

[Avatar-3DT]

Starts to look ok but there are errors. I will draw some lines over what I see wrong if you will allow me. Untill then, here are some pinponts: The torso is too big for the lower part of the body,the shape of the arm is not corect. You are on the right path 'tho. Keep it so!

[Teyon]

I'd have to disagree about the torso being too big for the lower part of the body. The size seems right but yes, there are things that need fixing.

[Avatar-3DT]

Here is what I meant about the arms. And believe me Teyon, the torso is too big for the entire structure of the werewolf. Think that it starts like a man (so has the proportion of a man) and changes to some wolf-like features. But I guess this is up to C.

[chaos_seed]

thnks a lot for that drawing !!! I'm working on the arm at this exact moment and that 'll be a great help !!

Here are some new render I just played a bit with them I've reworked arms and leg and attached all those to the torso still work to do on the arm and hand !

[chaos_seed]

and the front oh yeah and rework the torso a bit too

[sarN]

very nice, almost has the comic book feel to it. Sorry if youre going for the realistic look though, just think it looks more exaggerated for some reason, but i like it :)

[Cyrenn]

What would really be considered a realistic look.

Unless you go by what movies had produced over the years. to be able to compare what would be considered a realistic werewolf,

But as for this model, I think it rocks, I love the over all design, It really pops out at ya. Throw some shag hair on that if you are working with 3d Max and this model is going to kick some serious booty.

The actually head of the model is exactly what we were looking for in a short film we were trying to do in school. but the members that were doing the concept, just couldn't nail exactly what I was trying to imagine.

I am still planning on trying to get the short film done before Feb 2005.

I haven't actually read the rest of the thread. But are you getting this modled for a short film, My teacher had started the Boulder City Short film festival in Las Vegas, well actually outside of Las Vegas, Its going to happen in Feb 2005,

The info is at http://www.beezlebugbit.com for info,

Just a thought , incase you intrested in working with other 3d artist, Then again Im still a student, I wasn't sure if you are already working professionally.

But wouldn't mind working with ya, if your ever intrested.



There should be alot of entries,

[chaos_seed]

so here's an small update on small details fixing. I'm actually reworking arms 'cause school folks didn't like them.... Here is an clearer render

And yes Cyrenn it's already for an short movies that should be released in the begining of september. It's made for school and I hope will help fining me a new job 'cause I'm actully working in architecture and would like to pass on video games but I'll see...
I' would have loved to help you but for the moments they're to much thing we have to do on our oown short so I wont be able to give you a hand... But if you need advice don't hesitate !
I have myself tmade this werewolve without anydrawing 'cause our drawing skill aren't very high and the story board tooks us most of our drawing time so we couldn't aford tospend times on making model sheet. What I have done and suggest you do is gather a lot of image of monsters wolves and werewolves make a good idea of what you like on all of them and then do it once you have it clearly on you're mind ! Good luck for your short !It's a great expeirience to do it and ti makes you do great progress !

BYE !

[hanzo]

:) good drive, you need to work on those feet though... :D

[Avatar-3DT]

You got the proportions now buddy! The only thing that strikes me is the butt. IS TOO LARGE MAN!:D
Putting jokes aside, the thigh are too big near the pelvis, compared with the pelvis itself. So, eather you enlarge the midsection of the werewolf, or you tone down the buttocks and the thighs. I really like how those legs are going and you are doing a great job. Enlarge the chest a little more, you'll make the shoulders smaller this way. If in need of more "red line drawing" just tell me.

[chaos_seed]

here I come back I konw updates are getting hell of a time but I got so much thing to do on this short....Anyway here we go !
I'm on the fur at the moment tyring things and I'm not sure about texturing him...I'll see

[Avatar-3DT]

Throw a nice short tail there buddy. We have it to (the coccis bone) so it will grown on us if we devolve into a werewolf.

[Phynius Gauge]

Nice work, just fix the ass, right now there's a big space between the cheeks, and he's lacking his crack :p . I'm assuming your going to work on the feet and connect the head and neck. Other than those little issues, your model is pretty nice.

[Cyrenn]

Looking great. I like the way it turned out so far.

Keep up the great work.

Can't wait to see him textured. Are you going to use Shag fur or hair. Or something like that.

[chaos_seed]

yeah nice to see you still all there !:o
Well the weird butt is the tail place that's why it's so large I plan to maque the heir using ornatrix a great new plugin wich should soon get way better than shag hair !A lot more quicker and a great render
It's a beta plug and I'm really wayting to see everyone using it 'cause the beta is already amazing !!!

here is the link to that plug

http://www.ibmr.net/Ornatrix/

You'll have updates soon I'm working on skinning and fur at the moment so maybe on sunday they'll be a nice skin with a small anim....(lets hope so)

[Cyrenn]

Thanks for the link, For sho I'll check it out.

[chaos_seed]

so many things to do on these short...We've got past all deadlines !But still it's nearly finished I suppose you'll see it soon over the internet !:p
But first I need to make a fur for taht wolf wich is already animated and everthing ornatrix plug in is really great byut I can't make it work fine with an so complex mesh wich is just to bad 'cause it'd be just perfect....
Anyway here you go on an update !

[chaos_seed]

Here I come back ! It's been so long since I had time to check in here ...
I've been busy with all the animation part needed in a short and with my level it takes a hell of a time !!
I'know have time to finish working on the werewolf .Texture with stay a small bumpskin will change color tow be a bit more blue and the back of the head hair should be done bye tomorrow night.

Hope you'll like the progress


Update 'll come soon with render with scene

[Avatar-3DT]

Looking nice. Two thing 'tho: the image its too dark for now and I don't know if you thought at a skin shader for your werewolf but I see it like a grayish color. Imagine human skin with a grey shade. Ever seen a dead person (yeah, creepy question, I know)?

[chaos_seed]

Here it is for the update !!!
scene test render with the wolf without fur and the final fured head !
I'm encountering prblm with the body but well who isn't confronted to prblm....

I'll post update as soon as the body will let me get a render !
As for the fleshy skin I thought about it but w'ere on a toony render and I've already gone a bit too far...So I gess it'll stay the way it is as my collabs like it like this !Thx anyway !

[chaos_seed]

and the scene forgot how to put two image in the same post...:o

[<<GhosTS>>]

The scene is very good. But the moon is very prominant Like an external addition to the scene.Keep it up...

[FCR]

Wow, this model lives again? -or better lived... but a month isn't old yet *gg*- Cool, really cool.
I don't like the typical classic horror movie type of werewolves, but it really looks nice in your scene. More? ;)

[Avatar-3DT]

Agree with Ghosts. moon is somehow distracting and draws attention from the main character. The werewolf is looking sweet! You should take advantage of that white, shiny eyes and, in the scene, make them larger, gazing fiercely to the camera. Great work! Keep those updates coming!

[NWH1983]

This is a cool thread. Avatar idea with the eyes is a good one. You could even give the werewolf glowing eyes.