View Full Version : Matrix Revolutions? er... what the....
07-04-2004, 02:05 AM
Just wathced it on DVD and was pleased with it, as i had read lots of bad reviews, that was until around the 110 minute mark, when the final scene(s) came up. I thought the end was very disapointing.
A few questions though. If the machienes gave up all their fields of pods as the Architec said, they would all die right? cos thats their energy source! That seems crazy as they wanted to wipe out the rebels to protect the fields.
Also the second last scene with the girl and the cat. I thought that was the matrix being taken offline when they did the green writing washing over the pavement, but then the last scene is set in the matrix(right?). Oh my god!!!!!!!
Anyway the CGI was very good. I only wish Neo had kicked a$$ more in the super brawl rather than just being Smiths punchbag......
07-04-2004, 02:39 AM
Yeah - surely the world will become a stinking mess of rotting corpses - so much for those freedom fighting new agers living in the tunnels; they just murdered their enitire race. Messy film if there ever was one - a pity because it looked like a lot of people spent a lot of time in the artwork department only to have all their work chopped up into a mangled mess.
Coming to think of it, when was the last time you saw a big budget American production company make a bloated film which was any good?
Bag o' ****e
07-04-2004, 03:31 AM
I loved that movie. Especially the way the hull buckles whenever a depth charge goes off near the sub.
Still, like all Hollywood productions, it was unrealistic and unconvincing. But a good movie for what movies are...
07-04-2004, 05:15 AM
U-571 is unwatchable if you know the true history. Its such an audacious distortion of history its incredible they had the guts to do it.
During the storm following its release, even the filmmakers claims that the film was about "an enigma machine and not the enigma machine", still isnt a defence, because: It was the British that captured the first enigma machine and the 2nd and the 3rd etc etc. I dont remember the specifics, but either the USA never got one at all or it was after the Germans had already worked out the allies had them and so it was useless (it was one or the other).
Even if you forget about who did it, its still rubbish because nobody knew about the enigma machines. It was salvaged by chance and nobody knew what it was until it was analysed back in Britain later. There was never a mission to capture one at all, which is the whole premise of the film…
07-04-2004, 05:36 AM
Yeah man- I'm in the same boat as you on that one (geddit?!?!)
I saw U-571 on pay per view in a hotel while working in Hong Kong - it was laughably trite - and then guess what was on the 12 hour flight back to Blighty? U-571! You'll just have to imagine how swindled by fate I felt...
Back on subject: last great fantasy I saw must have to be Dark City - absolutely blown away at the cinema and endlessly watchable. Richard O'Brien's finest hour (not counting Crystal Maze)!
07-04-2004, 05:43 AM
well as for your take on the ending of Matrix, I don't think you got it. The machines didn't release all the people. It's just that they will let people leave the matrix if they wish and go live to Zeon, (or what ever you spell it as). But some people will choose the luxury of the Matrix, where they can fool themselves into thinking the world is still a good place to live.
07-04-2004, 07:41 AM
OK, back on track
Lets face it Matrix 2 and 3 were cack. 1 was ****** good, and they tried to extend the script and it just didn’t work. The first one had a few holes in its logic and as they tried to stretch it across 2 more films it just fell to pieces. It was nothing more than a money making machine for the studios.
Keanu would have done better to refuse to the do the sequel as he did when asked to do Speed 2 IMHO
I enjoyed the Animatrix more than the “real” Matrix 2 and 3. The Second Renaissance rocked!
As for Richard O’Brien’s finest hour, I would have to strongly disagree on that count. Rocky Horror RULES! :D
Matrix reloaded is much better !
07-04-2004, 08:09 AM
i like these movies and thats all...whatever they are.....the action is superb.....!
07-04-2004, 10:08 AM
beg to differ....i didnt see any holes in the matrix script...all three episodes.....
the source of the A.I. was the sun in the first place which the humans tried to block...it was only then that the machines took over the humans......(as seen in second renaissance).....so even if all the humans were set free the machines could still survive provided the cloud was removed which was only a matter of r&d.....and the matrix xould then cease to exist once all the humans were released........
all three parts of the matrix made total sense...atleast to me....anyone wanna point out any loopholes i'd definitely like to know..:)
07-04-2004, 11:41 AM
Why not put cows in the pods then theres no need for a matrix at all?
Why not lobotomise all the babies, then theres no need for the matrix at all?
Why not just keep everyone sedated?
Why is there a need for a matrix at all?
They don’t even need to keep them asleep. If they just lock them in pods from birth with no nurture or education they will act like cattle. Eat/sleep and not much else.
Since the animatrix was made after the 3 films had already been scripted, I dont think you can really say look they make sense because XYZ happened in the animatrix. The Animatrix attempted to explain the illogical things that were going on in the plot, and to some degree succeeded. Plenty of people have never seen them though...
The whole Neo/Smith balance, matrix being restarted many times before stuff was complete boll**ks and made no sense at all.
07-04-2004, 12:18 PM
I only say the 2nd and 3rd installments in the cinema and can't be bothered to see them again. I sort of ranted about the 3rd but I don't particularly remember all the loopholes I pointed out - there is another thread here somewhere.
What particularly bugged me was how Trinity went from one of the greatest movie characters ever to a mindless doting girlfriend in the last film. It was like the script was put to a boardroom committee and all they could come up with was a bunch of stock characters and situations.
I don't regret seeing these movies, but they leave me with the same feeling that Star Wars Episode 1 left me with...I couldn't imagine how someone could ruin such great intellectual property, but they managed to. I guess that's what happens when you're more interested in sticking you movie's logo on everything that drives by the studio rather than write a script.
08-04-2004, 03:24 PM
LMFAO @ Ironbucket.
Yeah, why do the machines always go for the hardest methods of getting psi power or whatever? HAHAHA
I've studied a lot of WW2 history, and the Enigma was commerically available before the war even started, so we already knew how the commercial version worked. The British did indeed capture the first enigma machines, but i think the tribute in the movie was for the naval captures (don't know why they needed more than one enigma... the machines weren't that complicated).
The dude who actually cracked the enigma code (or rather, figured out a way to crack it) didn't even have an actual enigma to work with. All he had was theory, and he managed.
I only saw the first Matrix, and i wasn't very impressed. I can't watch a movie if the plot makes no sense :p
08-04-2004, 06:46 PM
your trying to go too deep into the story... Just appreciate it for what it is man, not everything has to be 100% realistic... :p
08-04-2004, 09:50 PM
Partly right, but wrong
The British were able to decipher the German airforce enigma codes without capturing a machine. Maybe because of some of what you said. But, they could not decipher the naval codes. Breaking this was important because despite the fact the British had the largest navy in the world, most of their ships were slow. Knowing where things would be in advance was of huge value to them
This only became possible when an actual enigma machine already "programmed" was captured
It was captured by BRITISH forces. NO US PEOPLE OR SHIPS OR ANYTHING had any part in it. NONE WHAT SO EVER!
That’s why so many people were a tad miffed at the film which made out the US did it all. I can remember some of the actual people from the crew on the news when the film came out saying it wasn’t right to dishonour the people that died on that mission. The US didnt just have a minor role in this, they had no role in it at all…
09-04-2004, 06:37 AM
Yeah, i knew they (British intelligence) had deciphered the Enigma codes before they captured a wartime enigma. One guy (can't for the life of me remember his name) invented the "bombes" that ticked away... think it took 'em 4-5 hours to decipher one transmission, but of course once they deciphered the code for the day they could just plug it into a captured machine.
I'm from America, but i can understand the miffedness of relatives of soldiers and sailors who died trying to capture a wartime enigma when a movie disregarding thier efforts comes along... And you should see the way the public over here eat up anything Hollywood puts out as fact. 's pathetic. In any case, I knew i had some of the details wrong...
What was the intelligence headquarters called again? Something like the black room... I'm probably way off... It's in the back of my brain and it won't come out. I've tried hitting my head several times, but nothing yet...
y'know what i'm talking about? The institution where all the code-crackers were during WW2...
09-04-2004, 07:24 AM
The enigma machines the German navy were using were physically different to the ones used by their airforce. They had an extra wheel or whatever it was, an extra layer of encryption. So that deciphering the airforce one didnt really help them with the navy one.
Of course the British had their new invention for detecting planes (radar) and a very good system of lookouts and communication watching for German planes so even without deciphering the airforce code they had early warning of most attacks. This is the main reason Britain won the Battle of Britain. Britain was hugely outnumbered but could send the planes they did have to be in the right place at the right time and use them very effectively.
As I said the problem with the British navy was that the German ships in general were much faster. So they could just run away when outnumbered, which was most of the time.
Check out the story of how the Bismarck was finally destroyed. The British were chasing it all over the atlantic trying to catch up with it. They managed to get an aircraft carrier in range of it and the strike from that is what slowed it down and allowed the British fleet to catch up. This has some conjecture though as some claim that the Bismarck slowed down for some other reason and the airstrike was ineffective.
Anyway back to the Matrix for a sec. If they have the resources to produce hundreds of those mechs with guns that they used to defend Zion. How come Morpeus’ ship has no weapons at all?
The end of the first film could be very different. Here come 5 squiddys. DAT DAT DAT DAT DAT… BOOM. Don’t worry Neo take your time :)
09-04-2004, 10:12 AM
Yeah, i've read a lot about how the Bismarck was detroyed. Supposedly, a Swordfish got lucky and jammed the rudder all over to one side, making it go in circles... Then the big ships came up an' finished 'er off. 's amazing such a huge battleship could outrun the entire British fleet... Well, for a little bit, anyway.
Tell ya what's really sad is the Hood. But I don't want to talk about that right now.
I didn't know there were 2 separate Enigma machines for the air force and navy. Thank you for educating me :D
And I still don't know why the machines didn't just hunt the people causing trouble in the matrix rather than bugging them while they were in the matrix :p
09-04-2004, 10:35 AM
I saw it on video over a year ago, and I thought it pretty good, but not as good as the original of course
09-04-2004, 10:50 AM
I cannot believe someone would rewrite history like that. That is almost plagerism. That is terible. I am also from the US and I cannot belive he did that.
As for the Matrix, I like the story and effects.
09-04-2004, 10:59 AM
hehe. ALMOST plaigerism? i'd say all the way mate.
Besides, plaigerism is just stealing someone's writing. Then again, Hollywood is the LAST place you wanna go for facts...
I think the first movie is good... the rest pretty much suck.. but the CGI is good though.... One thing about the third movie... there's a girl on their ship.. the doctor or somthing.. she had short blond hair.. I think you'll know who I'm talking about.... Anyway... this girl gets killed by some evil guy on the ship with a knife that is maybe 5 cm long and 2 cm wide..... and she dies 4 seconds after being stabbed in her stomach.... Trinity though, she gets like five giant metal spears through her body.... even though she gets hit by these metal things she still has got 2 minutes to say goodbye to neo.... Well I don't think thats fair.... :p
09-04-2004, 10:05 PM
Death can be weird. Some people can slip in the bath and die instantly. Then the other day I was watching a documentary and they talked about this guy in WW2 that got shot 72 times and carried on fighting.
well... yes.. I guess thats true. I still think it's wierd though but maybe trinity is stronger because she has got the love from neo or something...
10-04-2004, 05:12 AM
I think that the scene was way to long. I remember being in the theature and saying "Die already"
12-04-2004, 08:41 AM
Does everyone remember cringing each time ol' Keanu calls her 'Trin' - the swooning loveboid? He deserved six o' the best for that. Pretty lame and humourless scriptwriting that one.
Fink the place where Enigma messages were decoded was called Bletchley park and what's more (truth might be stretching here a little), all the mathematicians/ secretaries/et al working there didn't know of the increasingly more secure levels and work that was going on below. Pretty hefty bit of project management going on there that most film companies can only dream of when guarding their projects. All under the guise of a stately home in the country - don't us Brits have style or what?!?!
12-04-2004, 11:25 PM
The last movie was a script disaster anyway. he gets an other sight? Come on.
After the 2nd movie, I supposed there were several layers of matrixes, each matrix over time creating their own matrix, and that Neo was just in another matrix. But a second sight, a smell, and a telepathic connection with MACHINES? Yuk.
The special effects were very very cool though. And at least he didn't save her like in the 2nd movie, bullet to the heart should stay there I think.
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