In Our Eyes

[rinard]

I saw photos on T.V I hope pictures like this will spread around so that people will start thinking with their conscious instead of their greed. I also heard that the Americans administration is afraid of such pictures being spread around and anti-war resentiment might rise again. I'm fully aware that many innocent Iraqi civilians are being injured and killed by US bombs, and that's horrific. Honestly, thoughts like this plague me every day... I do not consider myself truly pro- or anti-war, but that does not make me indifferent.
I would advise anyone in here especially young and sensitive members if you go to these sites, are aware you are going to see dead people.
http://www.almotmaiz.net/iraq_photos/iraq_photos.php?type=people.php
http://alsaha2.fares.net/sahat?14@183.a4OgkyQvll9.6@.1dd56cad
http://alsaha2.fares.net/sahat?128@185.eRwGkpIwopf.4@.1dd57bb4
http://alsaha2.fares.net/sahat?128@183.a4OgkyQvll9.7@.1dd576bc
http://alsaha2.fares.net/sahat?128@183.a4OgkyQvll9.7@.1dd57887
http://www.aljazeera.net/news/arabic/2003/3/3-22-26.htm
http://www.internationalanswer.org/

[Ironbuket]

Is that guy on fire in the 2nd link meant to be the dead guy or what looks like a dead guy being hung up further down the page?

Btw: Those are British troops (You can tell from the rifles they are using).

IMHO moaning about the “current situation” really doesn’t achieve anything. Everything you can put forward for your case is known to all the sides. The simple fact is that “we” (me being British BTW) are in this situation now and there is no “good” solution. Suddenly pulling out could do even more harm than staying. Its obvious that if things aren’t done right Iraq could easily end up with another sadam in power.

Its interesting to consider if all the civilians killed since the fall of sadam is anywhere close to the number he would have killed himself anyway if we hadn’t gone in...

Also a lot of those civilian casualties are caused by “their own people” with suicide bombs and attacking coalition patrols in crowded suburban streets etc.

[Jyncus]

Originally posted by Ironbuket
Its interesting to consider if all the civilians killed since the fall of sadam is anywhere close to the number he would have killed himself anyway if we hadn’t gone in...

Also a lot of those civilian casualties are caused by “their own people” with suicide bombs and attacking coalition patrols in crowded suburban streets etc.

Thank You.

Civilian casualties are a part of wars and always will be. Yes it's gruesome and horrific...but like Ironbucket said, consider how many citizens were killed by Sadam - and how many are being saved by his removal and the dozens of terrorists the coalition has killed.
We all know that wars aren't anything pretty - and it's understandable that any government wouldnt want it's citizens to see pictures like those, as all it does is lower the morale.

[RickStefani]

Edit, I removed my comments because I really do not think this is the place for any of this.

[Dr.N]

ya i think that is not really the place for this talk cuz im sure we gon have many opinions and fights lol

so We 'd better remove this thread

what do u think guyz?

[Ironbuket]

I think dont remove it, unless you are scared the server would get attacked by terrorists because of us talking about it.

This is the Off-Topic Discussion Forum, why should this not be appropriate to discuss here...

[Dan-3DT]

Truth is we don't really know the real reason for any of these wars. What we see in the media whether in America, Iraq, UK, Spain, etc. is all bias pertaining to that particular country. Do we really know why we went to war with Iraq...who knows...I am sure the truth is mixed somewhere in the propaganda. The point is most people don't deserve to die...the civillians and even the military are trapped in their country's politics.

[Zergling]

I'm American, and i'm pissed off by the fact that we have lost more troops in the 2nd Gulf War than we did in the first. Also, my respect for the British gets higher every day. When Ashcroft (sp?)sent troops in, he was supporting America's decision (Well, Great Britain is in closer missile range of Iraq anyway, so i would have done it too) he was going against the wishes of most of the U.N. and his own country. Now British and American soldiers are dying in surprise attacks and ambushes because their superior officers won't let them kill the enemy.

Civilian casualties are indeed part of the war. If you don't like the "civilians" in iraq who are weilding RPGs and AK-47s getting cut down in "cold blood" look at how many civilian British were killed in the bombings in the Battle of Britain. eh? What about that? What about Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The estimated death toll for invading Japan without softening the country up with bombs was around 2,000,000 soldiers dead. I'd say 160,000 of the enemy's civilians dying is better than losing a large chunk of our fighting force.

War is hell, there's no question. But what's happening in Iraq is not war. We are not shooting the enemy, and they are attacking us. How can we be affectionate and protective of a people that stab us in the back every chance they get? Did you see the liberated French killing our soldiers and pulling them apart? Parading around town with charred corpses of our fighting men and cheering?

This whole idea of restricted war is bull****. Do any of you know any soldiers in the war? I know America has around 36,000 soldiers over there, and I know several of 'em. I sure don't wanna hear that one of my buddies was killed, dragged around, dismembered, pee'd on, disrespected... to save the people that did it to him. It's bull. We need to either fight this war or pull out. And as Ironbuket said, pulling out would be more devastating that staying in.

I feel very strongly about this. It's about time we stopped moaning about human interest and saving the Iraqi's country and started trying to win the war.

[RickStefani]

OK, I will say what I did before in lighter terms. Look at the crowd of people attacking the british in riot gear. There are kids. If Kids are going to be in situations like that they will be killed. The chared body is not of the british troop. That was of one of the security gaurds that were ambushed driving in one of two cars. That is how animals act. Animals.

Propaganda is a big part of war.

Anyone know the story on how that M1 got taken out? It is under a bridge so it could have been from the top down a hatch or maybe a well placed explosive under it.

Will someone tell me that anyone could actually think that exicuting hostiges will get a country to want to pull its troops. Even a country that was thinking about pulling them would want to stay in for the principle of it.

[Ironbuket]

The kids getting involved in throwing stuff at the troops is not an Iraq issue. Ask any psychologist, theres a thing called mob psychology. It’s a documented fact that normally law abiding people will involve themselves in violet and illegal activities when surrounded by a large group of people doing it already.

If you got a load of people throwing stones at cops in New Yorks time square passing kids would probably join in.

Plus the Iraq kids know they can get away with it. Can you imagine what would have happened to kids throwing stones at Sadams troops pre war? This is progress in a weird way :D