D-DAY + 60 Years

[Jon]

D-DAY + 60 Years

Well, as I'm sure you know, this Sunday marks the 60th Anniversary of D-Day, perhaps the largest military operationwhich took place during the Second World War.

May 1944 had been the time chosen at Washington in May 1943 for the invasion. Difficulties in assembling landing craft forced a postponement until June, but June 5 was fixed as the unalterable date by Eisenhower on May 17. As the day approached, and troops began to embark for the crossing, bad weather set in, threatening dangerous landing conditions. After tense debate, Eisenhower and his subordinates decided on a 24-hour delay, requiring the recall of some ships already at sea. Eventually, on the morning of June 5, Eisenhower, assured of a weather break, announced, "O.K. We'll go." Within hours an armada of 3,000 landing craft, 2,500 other ships, and 500 naval vessels--escorts and bombardment ships--began to leave English ports. That night, 822 aircraft, carrying parachutists or towing gliders, roared overhead to the Normandy landing zones. They were a fraction of the air armada of 13,000 aircraft that would support D-Day.

http://search.eb.com/normandy/art/onasuex001p1.jpg

Thousands of men lost their lives.


http://search.eb.com/normandy/art/onavsup001p1.jpg

The airborne troops were its vanguard, and their landings were a heartening success. The American 82nd and 101st airborne divisions, dropping into a deliberately inundated zone at the base of the Cotentin Peninsula, suffered many casualties by drowning but nevertheless secured their objective. The British 6th Airborne Division seized its unflooded objectives at the eastern end more easily, and its special task force also captured key bridges over the Caen Canal and Orne River. When the seaborne units began to land about 6:30 AM on June 6, the British and Canadians on Gold, Juno, and Sword beaches overcame light opposition. So did the Americans at Utah. The American 1st Division at Omaha Beach, however, confronted the best of the German coast divisions, the 352nd, and was roughly handled. During the morning, its landing threatened to fail. Only dedicated local leadership eventually got the troops inland.

http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/war/d-day.jpg


http://search.eb.com/normandy/art/onormay030m4.gif


Meanwhile, the German high command, in the absence of Rommel, who was home on leave, began to respond. Hitler was initially unwilling to release the armoured divisions for a counterattack. When he relented after midday, elements of the 21st Panzer Division drove into the gap between the British 3rd and Canadian 3rd divisions at Sword Beach and Juno Beach and almost reached the sea. Had they done so, the landings might have failed. Fierce resistance by British antitank gunners at Périers-sur-le-Dan turned the tide in late evening.

On June 7 the beachhead consisted of three separate sectors: the British and Canadian between Caen (not taken) and Bayeux; that of the American 5th Corps, between Port-en-Bessin and Saint-Pierre-du-Mont; and that of the American 7th Corps, west of the Vire River behind Utah Beach. The narrow gap between Gold and Omaha at Port-en-Bessin was quickly closed, but it was not until June 12 that the American corps were able to join hands after a bitter battle to capture Carentan. The beachhead then formed a continuous zone, deepest southwest of Bayeux, where the 5th Corps had driven nearly 15 miles (25 kilometres) inland.


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Do you know anybody who took part in 'D-Day'?

Or do you have any plans to remember 'D-Day'?

Thank-you for reading.


Links of Interest

If you would like to research D-DAY, you may use the following resources (http://search.eb.com/normandy/links.html)

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[Chris-3DT]

The liberation of Europe was a great day for her, one that cannot be duely celebrated and apreciated.

This year's celebration is of special importance - for the first time in the history of the d-day celebrations Germany was officially invite to it. Bundeskanzler Gerhard Schröder will take part in the celebrations.

That is ineed a fine day, one of forgiveness, one of friendship.

[Jon]

Indeed, this year marks a great event. After this time, it is correct that it should be remembered, with the German nation (who lost as many troops during the Second World War as the allied forces).

Does anyone have any plans? I myself am going to Normandy with my dad (I'm 15), for the day.

My Great-Uncle took part in D-DAY, and made a total of 13 Channel Crossings, before being shot at the barracks when a fellow soldier was cleaning his gun. It is events like these, and D-DAY as a whole which will effect the world for years to come, so I feel that it is important to remember.

[john silver]

that'a pretty odd, that germany would take part in celebrating a battle they lost that eventually led to it's destuction and to the soviets dominating half of germany for 50 years. I would never celebrate the enemies victory under any circumstance. Even if the war was fought for the the wrong reasons and if the then enemies are now friends.

I could give examples like vietnam, and the indian wars as american examples. No one in america celebrates our lost battles in viet....wait we didn't lose any major battles in vietnam. ummmm...I guess politicians suck. They drag us into wars with the domino theory(commy then democracy now)and then put the military in an impossible situation in which they handcuff them and tell them to win. They didn't do that before, they used to understand that to winning hearts and minds is horse pucky and that we should get to grips with the enemy and kill them. Whatever though that's just my 2 cents though.

[3dGator]

john silver: the U.S. didn't loose any major battles in Vietnam, no... It lost the whole major war, along with their allies, the South Vietnamese. But that's beside the point...
I think it's a great honour that Germany is finally invited to participate in the celebration: its a sign of forgiveness and a strenghtening of its alliance with the E.U.
I cannot speak for the German people, but I'm sure no one is celebrating this because it was about "beating the enemy", in this case Germany.

[JHarford]

1. thanks for the great information cool_guy . i appreciate it and commende you for it .
a time of forgiveness is what this 60 years should mark. i intend to celebrate' the time . by doing some research and reading on teh event and thinking about how it must have been like exactly.
one can only imagine.

2.john silver . youve done it again . adding nothing of value or opinion to an important thread. confusing with contradictions :S.

just by 1 p

[3Dan]

My father's sister's husband's brother died in the landing, a native of Washington D.C. (my aunt met her husband-to-be in Natal-Brazil, on an airbase built and kept by the US Army - there was no USAF yet - in 1942)
I was in Normandy during the 50th anniversary, driving on the way to Mont Saint Michel. Watching those beaches so peaceful was hard to imagine war raged there. But then it was hard to imagine war and its anihillation wherever we went, old Europe so beautiful.
The Blitzkrieg ended when Germany lost the Battle of Britain, and it became clear that the nazis would not win when Stalingrad refused to fall. Still millions would die until the bitter end.
Let us celebrate and remember so we won't forget.

[Knut]

OR, we could celebrate that we WON and mock the Germans who bothered to show up muahahahaha

*Refering to mr. Silvers post.*
Seriously, show some respect.

[UnsteadyTeddy]

Unfortunately, this could be the last 'proper' celebration of D-Day. Considering that in 10 years time most of the veterans will have died by then.

[LittleFish]

This is to all of the people who keep saying "Germany lost" or "forgiveness" and whatnot. Germany didn't fight WWII. The people of Germany under the control of the current regime did. I don't see what forgiveness has to do with it. But yes, "rememberance" is important due to it's historical (yes, and even emotional) significance.

[Chris-3DT]

john silver, the people of today's Germany see, as all other peoples in Europe, the Allied invasion as a liberation from the Third Reich. This liberation is what we want to celebrate.
This whole celebration is not about the battle, in my eyes, but about liberation and freedom made possible through the effords of many brave men who gave their lives. Somone who rejoices a battle as a battle must be retarded, I should think.

No, the annual D-Day celebrations show respect for those who died in the sand on the beaches of the Normandie and rejoice the outcome of this battle: a free and now united Europe that is growing each day in wealth, size and most of all friendship.

If you can't udnerstand that, John Silver, then i don't know what more I can say.

[Jon]

Casualties

637,000 soldiers were killed, wounded or captured during the battle of Normandy, June 6 - Aug. 29.

Allies: 237,000
Germany: 400,000

[john silver]

okay, what chris said makes sense. Liberation? Freedom? Oh come on now, are we forgetting 50 years of commie domination? The rape of berlin? I guess I am upset because it feels like we(the americans) were fighting the lesser of 2 evils. You guys say the liberation of europe and I laugh. Are we forgetting the iron curtain? I guess you that you guys don't see eastern europe as part of europe then.


also if I may, The big bad 3rd riech was legally elected by the people, the people of germany fought world war 2. They fought world war 2, they killed the jews, the killed 20 milliion russians, not some third reich that didn't have any support.

[JHarford]

wow . you know even less than we thought.
ill leave this one to someone else

[claWda]

yes they were elected by the people, they promised lots of work and that's appealing, they started out as a worker's party, but when they had control they ignored everyone, I thought you knew everything John, did you miss that?

stop being so ignorant, I'm not german (thank god, I would really be telling you off if I were) but seeing how there are lots of germans in threedy, you should really tone down

besides, your own country is the biggest terrorist-nation in the world, YOU elected a bigger dictator than Hitler, really, the third reich wasn't much when you compare the your glorious (.......) country today...

please, just let it be, it's bad enough people still connect germany to nazis, I know german people and they are EXTREMELY nice, it's really time to move on from WWII, people like you make me sad, you remind people of the big bad germany and they automatically connect that to the german citizens, you shouldn't forget WWII and relax, no-one ever will but show a little less hate and a little more love

[3dGator]

Originally posted by john silver
okay, what chris said makes sense. Liberation? Freedom? Oh come on now, are we forgetting 50 years of commie domination? The rape of berlin? I guess I am upset because it feels like we(the americans) were fighting the lesser of 2 evils. You guys say the liberation of europe and I laugh. Are we forgetting the iron curtain? I guess you that you guys don't see eastern europe as part of europe then.


also if I may, The big bad 3rd riech was legally elected by the people, the people of germany fought world war 2. They fought world war 2, they killed the jews, the killed 20 milliion russians, not some third reich that didn't have any support.

So much ignorance in so few lines...

[JHarford]

zis iz un outrage!

[Chris-3DT]

3dGator, I have heard much worth.

Americans have "insulted" me as a communist, other Americans have insulted my as a Nazi (that was really an insult) and yet other Americans have insulted me as a Nazi-communist.

All three groups knew neither: what communism is, how it is supposed work and why it doesn't work. Neither of the groups knew what "Nazi" stands for and to call me a Nazi-Communist ist just beyond words.

I am used to be insulted by Americans (for I don't recall having been insulted like that by anyone else but Americans and English actually, when I was in London with my class). Such shouting/tyoing of words that they don't understand merely illustrates their immense ignorance and is disrespectful towards the victims of the worst ever committed by humans.

Now, I know there are many, many great Americans, superb buddies, good friends and sensible thinkers, but unfortunately we only remember those ignorant exceptions.
We also only remember it when the queue at the check is long and the cashier is slow and curse about it, while many times we are served swiftly but don't think of it for a second.

Now then, this thread is heading to its closure which is very sad, so I'm giving you another chance to honour the victims of an unneccessary, violent war that will never occur again.

I don't want to read anything about Americans anymore either. I know it's unfair because I just said something...well, call me a Nazi, if that makes you feel better. :p

[3dGator]

And you, Chris, are a very wise man. You have put into words a valuable lesson in life.
You mentioned having been to London once. I once lived there for 12 years. A diplomat there once told me "We may be very much welcomed to a foreign country, but we will always be strangers to its inhabitants." What I mean is that, people tend to insult strangers out of many reasons, the main one being fear.
And the fear of the return of a regime, such as the Nazi regime, is very great indeed. May we always remember these celebrations, so as to not let it happen again. john silver, that is perhaps the most important reason of these celebrations: to prevent future generations from repeating WWII.

[claWda]

about the whole american attitude thing, I've been wanting so say that for such a long time you just read my mind and wrote it down (yeah I read no more but I had to), and as for what you've heard in life, we all go through that though being called a nazi is probably worse than your average comments...I don't think john silver meant to be this aggresive in his posts, he has some points actually, he just doesn't know how to put them forward for anyone to listen to

[Jenn]

I normally avoid discussions like this and to be honest I don't really know why I'm even posting my opinions. But for what it's worth...

It's really easy for the average person to get trapped into using stereotypes. Afterall one of the very basic ways of learning is by using association. All Germans are nazi's, all americans are gun toting, ignorant, natural resource consuming warmongers.....Or how about all canadians and swedes play hockey? Do you see a problem with this? I sure do.

To believe that all germans during wwII were nazi's only proves ignorance. To hold all germans (now or then)responsible for acts that were commited by a small portion of the population is stupid beyond words.

America is the place I call home. In fact, America is the place that more than 6 generations of my family has called home. Should I be held responsible for slavery? Should I be held responsible for the native american tribes being systematically relocated and exterminated, nevermind the fact that I can claim cherokee blood? Should I hold England responsible for the irish potato famine? afterall, my mother's family is irish.

What I'm trying to say here is that I have serious problems with pigeonholing people into little stereotypes based only on where they live in the world. It's just wrong.

For that reason, I never enter into global political discussions. I find the only way to avoid this kind of stereotyping is to take things one person at a time.

As for D-day, I whole heartedly agree that it should be remembered, celebrated seems like a strange word to use for this occasion. However, look how far we have come and yet look how very little progress has been made:(

Finally, I realise that it's very popular right now to hate americans. But I can only hope that you think of me as a fellow 3d artist and not as just an american.

[claWda]

Jenn I have friends from LA and california, and they're without doubt some of my better friends, I guess I'm a bit annoyed with america overall I won't deny that, but here in Europe there's a bit of "hatred" towards america, since you do everything your way,

I have absolutely no hate at all towards american citizens, it's hard to say why I reacted, my guess would be John Silver representing the political side of USA and what he says is just so stupid and adding to that the fact that he's from USA, well, made my go a bit far I guess..

I apologize to you and all other americans for that matter, I know how you are as people and you're really open to others and really friendly so sorry for generalizing

p.s. all swedes do not play hockey, all swedes play football ;) :p d.s.

edit: to make things clear, with football I mean soccer, there you go again only country in the world that has it's own word for the largest sport in the entire world :p oh well

[Chris-3DT]

What did i say? Did i say: go talk about american/european-realtionships? No!
I did not.

Would anyone listen to me for a change?!

[Knut]

Chris: guess not:p

Anyhoo, they showed Saving Private Ryan on tv today, which I hadn't seen in quite a while. Pretty thought provoking movie.:roll:
Makes you think how it was being on the battlefields back then. Uff:eek:

[LittleFish]

awwww... and I thought Chris summed it up really well on the previous page.

[Wormin8or]

Chris, I'm truely sorry that you were called a nazi in London. Unfortunatey, my country (England) is going to hell in a hand basket because of this stupidity that infests our nation.

On the up-side, I'm taking a G.C.S.E. (the exams you have before taking your 'Abitur' I believe) in History. European politics 1900-1964 is the core to the syllabus and our teacher is very good at highlighting the true nature of the political situation in Europe that led to the rise of Nazism in Germany.

We cannot blame Germans of the past (and certainly not those of the present) for going to war under the banner of the Third Reich when our government under Chamberlain stood in awe at the development of your nation.

p.s. SOME americans should also realise that their government's actions in the 1930s added to the hostility in Europe, for example the idea to contradict the League of Nations and increase oil exports to Italy in the middle of the Abyssinian Crisis.

[john silver]

I didn't say germany today is nazi, I din't call anyone a nazi or communist.
It's a fact that hitler was elected by the people. It is also true that they took over the government by enacting emergency powers. It's also fact that the german people knew about the death camps. Perhaps not the details of the camps, but they knew something was going on. Have you seen the videos?!? The videos of regular hans and franz being led through the death camps that were a stones throw away from thier homes. I have, I don't know what they teach you in european schools, but here in america they teach us that it could happen here. That our society is not so different that it couldn't happpen here, that people can get swept up in things like nazisim. and yes, to some degree it is happening here, but not in the executive branch, it is happening in the judicial branch, just as thomas jefferson said it would happen.

also in response too wormguy, I do know that the british are not angels walking on water. That to maintain power for as long as they had, being a small island nation, they had to be a little, hmmm...underhanded?

Most americans see communism as worse then nazism. It is also the opinion that of many informed people that the reason we (the allies) went to africa first is that churchill want the nazis and commies to duke it out. To bleed the russians.


quote thingamabobber
"besides, your own country is the biggest terrorist-nation in the world, YOU elected a bigger dictator than Hitler, really, the third reich wasn't much when you compare the your glorious (.......) country today..."

/\okay this, this is ignorance. /\
also what do you mean by bigger? that hitler was 5'4" and bush is 6'2"?

[Chris-3DT]

*sigh*
can we never live in peace and harmony? seems not.


here we go...

- No death camp (Vernichtungslager) was ever built on German ground, as far as I am informed, they were located outside of Germany, mostly in Poland. There were however concentration camps (Konzentrationslager) on German ground, where enemies of the government (communists, clergymen, jehowa's wittnesses, homosexuals, criminals, "asocial beings", handycapped,...) were held as prisoners mostly for forced labour. Or where Jews and others were gathered and sent onwards into Vernichtungslager outside of Germany. It is therefore unlikely, to my understanding, that many Germans knew of the Vernichtungslager. Those who knew however can and should be accused of not trying to make it public.

- A note on camps: concentration camps were not invented by the Third Reich but have been in Cuba by the Spanisj (1896), by the British in South Africa (1899), by the Bolshewyks in 1918, later by Stalin, then in Chile, Cambodga and many other places including the U S of A (where Japanse were arrested, if I am not mistaken). I am not mentioning this to excuse the German camps - the attempt alone would be remarkably stupid - but so as toshow that the camps built by the Thrid Reich were no unique things in the history of mankind.
One could perhaps call the prison opened by the Americans in Cuba to inprison supposed terrorists concentration camps.

On communism: There is no communism anymore. It is a mirracle how one can be afraid of something plenty of years after it ceased to exist. Also, being afraid of "communism" is a dillettant way of putting things,

What you are afraid of, in my eyes, is that Red Russia regains power and conquers the USoA. That is ridicolous to say the least. The Federal Repulic of Russia and the European Union are friends and partners in many affairs

[RickStefani]

And I thought this wound be talking about Iraq by now. I was wrong.

This was ment to be about the rememberance of an important day. A day of Loss that was inevitable. War is never good. Death is never good. It just has to happen. Lets leave this with our respect for people of both sides who gave there lives and risked them for the greater good.

[ronrn]

uhh..c'mon guys. This thread is about D-Day, correct?

D-Day .....A day of remberence, not a day of celebration. A day to remember the soldiers who died on that day. Soldiers who did not hesitate to lay down their life......because their country ask them to and no other reason..... how many of us would have that kind of courage?

D-Day .....A day of remberence...so that the world can remember those terrible events.....so as to learn NOT to let them happen again.

PEACE:)

[Daniel]

John Silver, just let it rest man I think you've demonstrated the way of thinking what we've all come to know by now.

I kind of avoided this thread since I didn't want to get caught up in it really.

I think it's great that they are now open minded ennough to invite germany to the rememberance and D Day is a day that must never be forgotten. And the end of the 2 fronts were liberated from both war and opression.

[hereiamonthewep]

Originally posted by cgstripe
zis iz un outrage!

translate please

[RickStefani]

hahaha:D

[novoAlias]

i watched a D-Day doco last week (about the actual d-day landing in colour (im pretty sure they didnt add the colour in. they told us so :p)

cool stuff.. much history+much dead people :roll:

[Chris-3DT]

Originally posted by DanielB
I think it's great that they are now open minded ennough to invite germany to the rememberance and D Day is a day that must never be forgotten. And the end of the 2 fronts were liberated from both war and opression.

With that said I will close the thread before it gets dirty.