Don't like them...

[martix]

Hi, I must to say that I dont like firtst 3 of your textures CD's :(
I have almost never used them in my production, especially now, when I have my own pro digital camera and I can make them much much more better.
Textures have visible seams somewhere on the map, looks like you really rush with them. They really sux for big tilling, cuz start to pattern too much. Color and light correction sux, because if this pattering thing.
Dirtmaps - is so lame thing! You have just used some inverted photos from similar CD, in some cases even from another (from dirt or rust) theme, like wood or bark. It sux!

And stop to promote them too much, cuz it sux too :( Who want them - will find and buy them...

bye

[ThinkTank]

So your saying that you just bang the textures on to your models with out editing them first???? Pros and such actually mix the textures ;)

[the_solidshadow]

amen!

[Tom-3DT]

Hello Martix,

Thank you for your comments, let me address them one by one.

Textures have visible seams somewhere on the map, looks like you really rush with them

This is not true, we do not rush them, quite the opposite in fact and take a lot of time with each texture, we also double check seams, maybe some parts of a seam on certain ones have slipped through the net but it will be a very small percentage and you word it as if it could apply to the majority, which is not true.

They really sux for big tilling, cuz start to pattern too much

Tiling is always a problem with textures, we do paint out areas that have obvious repeats and rework other areas in order to keep this to a minimum. With our latest collection we have done a first for any texture collection I know that is available and tiled them up 2x2 and 4x4 then reworked them more and painted out yet more repeats for the best possible results for mid and background textured objects.

Color and light correction sux

Again I have to disagree, much time is spent on these issues.

Dirtmaps - is so lame thing! You have just used some inverted photos from similar CD,

This comment I find particulary harsh after we work hard to provide such high quality dirt maps as bonus material for all our cds. Some are made from similar photos but you are wrong, they are not just inverted, they are many extracted colour selections and adjusted levels to mention a few of the techniques used. Here is an image textured with the first 3 cds you refer to, almost every object uses a dirt map too, impressive results we say.

http://www.3dtotal.com/images/texture_ex01.jpg

And stop to promote them too much, cuz it sux too

We have few ads on 3DTotal for the CDs, we promote them with tutorials that provide tips and advice from experienced and professional artists, whether you intend to buy our CDs or not these tutorials are a great source of learning material that are free to all. I am sure your final comments of 'we should have less' of these would be in a very small minority if put to the general community.

Here are some more examples of artwork created with just the first 3 CDs you mention, there are approx 50 more images like this in our new gallery we have opened too which can be found here :

http://www.3dtotal.com/images/texture_ex02.jpg

http://www.3dtotal.com/images/texture_ex03.jpg

http://www.3dtotal.com/images/texture_ex04.jpg

http://www.3dtotal.com/images/texture_ex05.jpg

I have my own pro digital camera and I can make them much much more better.

Please feel free to post some of your work in this thread too.

Again many thanks for your comments, hope you have found my reply enlightening.

Tom Greenway

[Goj]

I'm one of those guys who doesn't really use any map besides the diffuse/specular/bump, and I'm curious what a dirt map is.

[JHarford]

great post tom . gave some nice pics and some good information

as for the original post . - your opinion doesnt hold up much in contrast to the reviews from rendernode and 3dworldmag

[zuc]

Haha!! Great Tom! Lol, really really nice. I don't have the cds yet, I'm sure I can't find them here in romania:) and i can't buy over the internet...so...

But I do think they are great! They look really good on these pics!:) I would like to have textures:) lol:P

[ben-3DT]

Just a quickie for Goj :-)
Dirt 'Masks' (not really maps) are basically greyscale 'opacity' maps as you are more familiar to them. We create these masks from photographs of dirty or rusty materials and extract the areas of dirt and rust. These masks can then be put over other maps of metals / bricks etc and only the 'clean parts show through, giving the whole texture a 'dirty' feel. Check out
http://www.3dtotal.com/services/cds_new/v5.asp
and scroll to the bottom for a few examples of dirt maps.

Ben

PS. On a more personal note: I think some people are totally unaware of the alternative options of texture collections available in the market place today. We have an incredible collection of texture cd's unmatched by content and value for money anywhere else. We produce these cd's to aid hobbyists, amatuers and professional artists create the fantastic images we see on the site every day, without having to spend loads of money and hours of time creating textures for themselves. We are genuinly sorry to hear from un satisfied customers but we are not out to make a quick buck and have in the past gone far beyond the call of good customer service to make sure that every customer is happy with what they have purchased from us.

If you feel you have been let down by the Total Texture Cd's then please please please feel free to send your questions and comments to:

cdsupport@3dtotal.com

Thanks for all your support.

Ben Barnes
www.3dtotal.com

[martix]

Hello Tom-3DT, thx for the great answer. Sorry for my angry post. Maybe it was a bad day for me, or I was just borred by another one adverstiment of your textures... :o
I just don't use your textures in my production a lot, maybe thats why I want to make some disbalance in positive reviews. I think it will just sparks additional interest about your CDs ;)
But I must to say, that Marlin, texturama, RansomActive or got3d textures I dont like much more then yours. Marlin and texturama - for price/quality proportion, Ransom - just because they made bad small maps from bad small reference, and got3d - because he often use InfinityTextures soft to make textures for sell, if I ever use this app - I will make them for free.

About seams:
They are not so critical in final render, because Maps filtering will blur them anyway, but seams are still present in your textures. When I'm not rushing with my maps I'm trying to check out ever part of map ;) Just to defend my words:
http://martix.nm.ru/seam01.jpg
http://martix.nm.ru/seam02.jpg
http://martix.nm.ru/seam03.jpg

About patterning:
Yes, I must to agree with you, that it is hard to make texture good for high tilling without removing a big part of "cool" details. So you make right decision in your last CDs to make a couple of variants of the same texture. I often do same thing for my own textures.
But it doesnt change situation about first 3 CDs (which I have "reviewed") ;) Because there are no any tex. variations. BTW as far as I remember I have seen similar note about fair repeating on 2nd or 3rd CD in one review (that was linked on the mainpage of 3dtotal some time ago).

About dirt maps:
http://martix.nm.ru/dirt01.jpg
http://martix.nm.ru/dirt02.jpg

Just a couple of examples from 1st CD. I dont bother how you made them, its matter of couple of minutes in time. When I read Bonus - I thought it will be real bonus, nothing else.

About promotion:
Cant understand why you have added those pictures in this thread, I have seen them before and I have some problems with viewing your post with them added in :) Another adversiment? :) ...joking, I understand that it is your right to promote whatewhere you want on 3dtotal, and you have done a lot of great things for 3d community.... even dunno why it makes me so angry :(

About my textures:
Hmm, I dont know why I should show you my textures :) I'm sure our tecniques of making them are really similar, especially if you are using Photoshop...
But if somebody want - I can make texture from his reference, just give me this reference (in good resolution) :)

ps: if you can - I'd like to know how you are making bump maps for 'brick' kind of textures. Some of them looks like you have paint b/w 'brick'/'seams' map and mixed it with desaturated original map, other looks like you have just corrected them a bit. Some looks like you have 'corrected' them brick by brick using some method. How you are making them? :cool:

[daagom]

Bravo 3dTotal team. I personally love the first 3 cd's. I'm currently in college, and can't quite get a digi cam. I use these cds a base for many of my textures and the dirt masks help greatly in creating complex and realistic textured scenes. Thanks for a great product. I plan on buying others if I get the chance. Not only are they great textures, but they are priced extremely well for their quality. Thanks.

~Jeremiah

[Tom-3DT]

Hello Martix, Lets take them one by one again

About seams:

If you looked at all the seams in all the hundreds of textures that we have made I think the mistakes would be less than 1%, I said already that some parts of a seam may slip through the net even when double checked.

About patterning:

That's right the more 'interesting areas' the textures have the more obvious the repeats/patterning can be, this is why we include the 'dirt maps and masks' with the cds and have many free tutorials on the site showing how to effectively use them. They are very effective at disguising patterns as they can overlayed upon tiled texture without being tiled themselves.

About dirt maps:

Dirt maps and masks are excellent, no two ways about it, even if just used to fix the patterning issue you go on about. An excellent map/mask is still excellent whether it is created in 2 minutes or 2 hours. Hense they are a real bonus, as so many artists will vouch for.

About promotion:

I showed the pictures in this thread to help prove the value of our textures as you claimed that many aspects of them 'sucked' or to be 'lame'. This section of the forum is currently linked from the frontpage of 3DTotal, do you really think that I will let hundreds of people see your comments without defending our hard work in any way i can.

You are right we have several methods for bump maps, hopefully they will all be revealed in a future book we have planned.

On a lighter note, thanks very much daagom for your comments, very good to read :)

Thanks

Tom Greenway

[TheOne]

Well, dont think that the quality is bad, quite the contrary, they are great. I only got V4 but I think the others are as great!

You may be right that there are some mistakes on some maps, but you may not slap them on a model without editing them anyway. Normaly you should unwrap the models first, and then put the textures on it.

If you know how to use them they are great in my opinion!
I like V4 and I will buy the other ones, too!

Only my opinion tho.

[LittleFish]

Just from reading the descriptions and staring at the maps and all, I have come to the conclusion that the textures improve with time. CDs 4,5,6 are higher quality than 1,2,3 because of experience; however, the textures on 1,2,3 do not overlap and are thus irreplacable.

(sorry, can't afford. when am concerned with texturing more than drawing, will look into them)

[JJ54]

I can't afford to purchase these textures yet but I am a texture freak :) and will purchase them within the next year I'm sure.
This user that initiated this thread is welcome to his opinion but a professional texture artist should have BodyPaint or DeepPaint 3D and use the textures to paint with. This overcomes ANY repetition problems. I'm sure that they can be used to make brushes within 2D applications as well, cloned feathered, etc. to make viable textures. Texturing is to me (along with good liughting techniques) what makes CG "happen"! It isn't and shouldn't be without work on the part of the texturer or texture artist otherwise everyones textures would start to look alike. I might suggest the thread initiator read a good texturing book like [digital] Texturing and Painting. I'm beginning to understand what goes into a good texture and this looks like an excellent resource to START from - not a one click solution!

After looking at the preview pages, I saw some things I liked and some I wasn't wild about. That just jelped my creative juices flow to start seeing how the previews were great starting points and could be combined into really unique things!! If the tiles don't work quite right and look repetitive, do some cloning and healing brush things in 2D programs if that is what you are using. If I were a young guy and not disabled, I'd enjoy being a texture artist. They are paid well for good work and results - not tiling with instantaneous results.

Sorry - my 2 cents - Just felt that this post wasn't consistent with what the promos are offering and what I know about texturing.

Jim

PS - Keep 'em coming, Tom - When I can afford them, I'll get the whole set - hehe - you may be up to 10 by then :)

[martix]

Hi guys, I have free time to check out new releases of Total Textures, I thought experience after first CD's will help you to make new stunning collection of the outstanding quality. hehe, I was wrong ;)
Ok, I have seen v5/6 but will talk only about v6.

The most disappoint moment in this CD is whole content structure. Only about 80-90 Mb of this CD are useful maps!!!
Pretiled maps are frustration. They looks like a really dumb cheat, because doesnt realize their mission. They repeat and make 'pattern' effect. Bricks in pretiled modifications are repeating in the same areas of map - this is really ugly, you should spend some time and make them various in the same areas. It is how I imagine pretilling. The main bad thing is that this dumb modifications take up almost all free CD space.

Next, you guys were really hard-working on this CD :) Just look on quality of images you have done:
http://martix.nm.ru/v6/v6_01.jpg
http://martix.nm.ru/v6/v6_02.jpg
http://martix.nm.ru/v6/v6_03.jpg
http://martix.nm.ru/v6/v6_04.jpg
http://martix.nm.ru/v6/v6_05.jpg
http://martix.nm.ru/v6/v6_06.jpg
http://martix.nm.ru/v6/v6_07.jpg

I dont like to make stone maps too, but guys there are ways to make it better then dumb cloning with nasty smooth result :) Yup, they are time-consuming ways - but we aren't lazy, are we?

Ok, I think it is time to stop there, you will always find to answer something in reply but it will not the quality of this maps.
In overall I can't advise this collection to somebody who need 'clean' textures. There are much more professional done textures on the marketplace and for the much cheaper price, for example Texturama 1000 maps collection or Absolute textures(expensive but ultrahigh quality maps).

thx

[enjoiskating543]

im sorry, but quit complaining about the textures..you said you dont like them. that was your input... go make your own textures and stop picking apart their hard work. im sure anybody can find flaws if they look hard enough, but as some others said..pros mix and edit textures, this cd might not be all that good for beginners, but there are some really usable and nice images

[Tom-3DT]

Who actually are you Martrix? You seem like someone who is on a mission to search through our textures find just 1% or 2% of errors somewhere along a seam in a few hundred of very high quality texure maps.

You just seem to want to tarnish our name and try to bring us down in your own little way. Are you someone you has tried to make and sell texture collections of your own for example, reading back I think this may be the case. I have always tried to answer you points clearly in a friendly manner. Your last post just resorts to insults, sarcasm and claims that we lie about the amount of work we put into our cds.

Why do you bother doing this, what exactly are you trying to do here?

We have many hundreds of very happy customers who keep coming back each time we release a new CD, so who do you think is right about whether we produce great products . . all these many hundreds of returning artists, many of who are professional individuals and studios or just you, sat there on your own whinging?

Not too difficult to answer is it Martix . .

Tom

[martix]

"You just seem to want to tarnish our name and try to bring us down in your own little way. Are you someone you has tried to make and sell texture collections of your own for example, reading back I think this may be the case."
Yeap, its exactly me.

"I have always tried to answer you points clearly in a friendly manner. Your last post just resorts to insults, sarcasm and claims that we lie about the amount of work we put into our cds."
Yes, my post was sarcastic but I have no plans to abuse you, instead of your last pretty rude reply. I have just 'reviewed' your textures, as somebody other do, I think that I have right to make this? Exactly in the place where you want to hear it? Can I?

"Why do you bother doing this, what exactly are you trying to do here?"
It's the matter of my life to bother you. Or what do you want to hear in answer there?

It was real surprise to see such nervous reaction. I have just post there my own opinion about this textures.

[JHarford]

seems to me , if people are buying them , they are worth making

[Tom-3DT]

So a competing texture collection maker huh? I had a sneaky suspicion this may be the case very early on in this thread, comments such as "And stop to promote them too much, cuz it sux too " didnt sound quite right in this 'review' thread.

My reaction wasnt of the 'nervious' sort, or at least I dont think it was, we had some bad experiences earlier this year and really I am just defending years of work . .. . . Anyway now we know what is really going on here there isnt much point me me saying anything else.

Tom

[martix]

Relax, Tom :) My answer was a joke, it was really funny to heard your next reaction :) Why do you think that other competitors should say bad things about your collection? And why I am 'promoting' texturama and Absolute textures in my comments? Why I cant have my own opinion, have you ever didn't liked the film your friends were shocked with?

"comments such as "And stop to promote them too much, cuz it sux too "
hehe, I am just tired of additional advertisement you have add to almost every part of your site and its all, it's really unpleasantly to read articles full of advertisement :) Nothing more...

[Tom-3DT]

My answer was a joke, it was really funny to heard your next reaction
are you actually enjoying wasting my time?

Why do you think that other competitors should say bad things about your collection? I dont think they would but when someone does say bad things about and then claims to be a competing texture collection maker you might just be able to see where I made the connection (just returning your sarcasm)

Why I cant have my own opinion You can have your own opinion, even if it only talks about bad points you seem to spend a lot of time searching for, I just defend mine and my collegues work in return.

it's really unpleasantly to read articles full of advertisement They are not full of advertisments, anyway, if you dont like it, dont browse 3DTotal, tis a simple solution to your troubles ;)

Hope we can leave this one alone now, as i said plenty of my time has been wasted and I sure plenty of yours too. I prefer to concentrate on making our future 12 CDs which I am 100% sure will make the community (with the very odd exception) very happy. Stay tuned for them people, ancient tribes and civilizations is coming next! oops sorry was that another annoying advertisment ;)

Later martix

Tom

[martix]

I really dont want to answer and continue this stupid disputation, but I want to correct some things you've said in last post, sorry for wasting your valuable time, if you dont want to spend it - just dont browse this thread ;)

"are you actually enjoying wasting my time?"
Actually yes...

"...made the connection (just returning your sarcasm)"
Sorry, my fault. It's all my stupid sense of humor.

"You can have your own opinion, even if it only talks about bad points you seem to spend a lot of time searching for, I just defend mine and my collegues work in return.
Actually I spend really small amount of time enjoying your textures because I dont have them at home. I have spend 10-15 minutes to browse your CD at my friend's studio and I have crop only a couple of examples that I didn't liked from the first (and last) look.

"They are not full of advertisments..."
Call this whatewhere you want, it's just disturb me when I am viewing 3dtotal (which I am really like all this time). But you should pay for traffic and other things, so there is no need to defend yourself.

I'm hoping to leave it for some time too...

Later Tom

Martix :roll:

[Nappa]

if you dont like them dont buy them and if you really dont like them download them to hurt the team.....your not really hurtting the team your hurt all of the fan of the cds

I love debates you get the best of both of each point of view


Hey martix you wouldnt have nothing to do with the recent attack would you to 3d total :evil:

[Tom-3DT]

Thanks again martix for your opinions, however they have wasted too much of my time already and so It's time to close this one I think. All the best with your future projects.

Tom

[Tom-3DT]

Wow, just noticed this thread has had 717 views! As it's getting so much attention I though I would say a little about an upcoming collection we have, hope you dont mind Martrix :p

Ancient Tribes and Civilizations is being created mainly by hand painted works from 5 professional texture artists :-

Categories covered are :-

Aztecs
neanderthal
medievel
Celtic
Scandanavian (vikings)
Red Indian
Roman
Egyptian
Aboriginal
Mauri
African
Japanese (and other far eastern designs)

here are some early test renders from the hand painted textures, stay tuned for more news!

[daagom]

Woot.. sounds like an awesome texture collection Tom. hehe This thread has been a great advertisement. :)

Ciao,
Jeremiah

[3dtodd]

Wow, looks exciting. I personally love 3DTotal textures and believe they are some the highest quality textures around. Especially for the money.

I "saved up" to get the Sci-Fi textures from Marlin Studios. When I got them I realized they are only truly good for distant renders. They don't hold up to use for close-ups. For $159 that was rather disappointing.

RansomActive are thieves. I won't go into detail because it's not my place. But, I know the guy who originally created the textures that they "took over". It was ugly. But RA are jerks and cheap (expletives), which explains the quality of their current selection.

[Argalius]

here are some early test renders from the hand painted textures, stay tuned for more news!
Wow they look awesome, to bad I won't buy them, they are too expensive for a n00b modeler as me :(, maybe in a year or so ...

[martix]

Tom, if you still want to hear my opinion - last pictures you've showed looks nice :p I really love hand-painted maps of such style and quality...

3dtodd, yeah, I dont like Marlin's stuff, they have some nice maps there - but resolution is low. And I have already told my opinions about RA maps. Can you tell more details about them? How it is possible to steal whose work and sold it 'legaly'???

[Sublime420]

You should post updated maxlibs for the newer versions of max.
I believe that's what 3dworld said as well.

[Tom-3DT]

If you try the current ones, they shold work fine for newer versions of Max.

Thanks

Tom

[Sublime420]

I was just saying that it would be cool for you to post the updated ones in the download section of the web site, for the earlier cd's, since you already made them and everything.

[Nappa]

Why dont the tutorails come with models to texture i mean for me just lookings at something isnt enought i need to have it in my hands:) i mean give me a rock or something

[Tom-3DT]

That's an interesting point Nappa, I dont have a deffinitive answer. One of the reasons are some of the CDs are actually completely full and another is we just have never gone into giving away models too, we have over 100 tutorials on the site and they dont have models to download either, but still seem to do the job just fine. I guess at the end of the day they are texture cds, the tutorials are a bonus so what would that make the meshes? a bonus for the bonus stuff ;)

Our latest CD v8 vehciles, coming out this week is actually the first one to include some meshes too but they are just for alloy wheels.

Thanks

Tom

[Nappa]

If the cds are full then charger for a floop disk. Or host the mesh on the site like the ones you already have. Most of the tutorails on 3dtotal that i use never have nothing to do with texturing if it does i dont go that far because it will take a little to long for me to produce the model that the tutorail presents. Plus i havent learned how to uv map that well

[Tom-3DT]

Sorry Nappa, it's just they are texture CDs and we already work flat out to cram them with their current contents and bonus material. Additional models would be too much for us. Hope you understand.

Thanks Tom

[3dtodd]

Well, I have to put my two cents in about some of the "disgruntled" words that have been posted about the texture CD's.

I checked out Texturama and Absolute textures. While they both provide textures that are very useful they both suffer from the same limitation: textures that are ladened with extraneous details (i.e. geometric indentations in cement textures, pipes and extrusions in metal textures, etc.). In some textures the extra details are so numerous that any amount of cloning to remove them would only lead to an utterly useless texture map.

The problem with such textures is that while such detail serves a purpose on one day, they fall to the wayside on other days where you need more control over your textures. For instance, you cannot "edit" these textures or blend them with others to create new and different textures. You're literally "stuck" with a texture that is best used in certain circumstances. And that goes for a majority of the textures from both Texturama and Absolute.

That's what separates 3DTotal's textures from most texture providers. Not only do you get a large collection of various surfaces, but you are given files to help you edit those very textures. Such as dirt maps. An under-appreciated tool by many.

With the alpha maps, dirt maps and tutorials that 3DTotal includes with their texture maps, you are given complete and wide control over the creation and use of your textures. Again, while Texturama and Absolute can provide you with useful maps; they are still limited in their application merely by their design.

In truth, you would probably end up using Total Textures in conjunction with the other textures of windows and metals from Texturama and Absolute. But, as a resource of textures, 3DTotal's collection can work as a standalone product. Honestly, the same cannot be said for the others' collections.

[Tom-3DT]

Thanks for the comments 3dtodd :)

Tom