DWIII - 3D - Omnicypher - Cyrano Starchaser

[omnicypher]

maybe next year...

[omnicypher]

i might make a wizard/pirate looking guy with a glowing glass eye as the artifact. then again big proportions usually win these things, and the idea in my head is a bit more thin.

[omnicypher]

im definitly more of a 3d modeller than a concept artist. i dont think this is the best way to go about it, but im starting naked and adding clothes layer by layer.

[L3XICON]

I would say its the best way to go about it :D looking great so far mate, ) love the idea of the artifact being the skull

[omnicypher]

i took some ideas from killadees workflow and decided to make a few 2 tone silhouettes. i might just give up on the 2d and start sculpting concepts in zbrush.

[Tank[NL]]

i like number one, but thats because the other 2 seem more like rocks...

[omnicypher]

trying to get outside the box.

[Tank[NL]]

dont you mean "outside the skull"?

looks, erm, cute? reminds me of pirates 3. a mix between captain "undead" sparrow and davy jones.

[lampshadehead]

dude! that's awesome!

[L3XICON]

woah, thats pretty darn cool :D and i notice just 9 minutes between posting your last concept sketch and posting the sculpture... your fast sculpter mate :D i agree, you could do concept work straight into zbrush

[omnicypher]

yeah that one was me taking a break from getting proportions correct, and at the end i just started pulling stuff with the snake brush. im a sculptor at heart, not really much of a painter, i hope its not nessacary to have a 2d concept.

[omnicypher]

i should make a base mesh before sculpting, so far all these have been from cubes. you can always append more cubes in zbrush3, but it makes the ones your not sculpting transparent, which doesnt look great.

[omnicypher]

i just figured out how to use the retopology tools in zbrush3, still need practice with it, but it is better than tracing in max! then again it only lets you control on the vertex level. it would be complicated, but faster if they threw in a few tools for working on the polygon and edge level. like extrude and select ring/loop.

[omnicypher]

i just had the coolest dream last night. i dreamt of a classical jester with a hood that made his face really dark, but his eyes glowed red, and he played a magical flute that summoned the dead, after raising hell in town, he went to battle against slash the guitarist, who used his guitar to summon demons. an army of undead fought an army of demons in an epic battle. i wish you could all see what i saw!

[Star_Scream]

Hehe nice dreams you got, had to laugh because of Slash :D

[Incredibo]

reminds me of sloth off of goonies. after he hit the gym. Baby Ruth! Hey you guys!

[omnicypher]

heres kinda what it looked like:

[katana]

you need more drugs...lol

[omnicypher]

winner faces off against the devil in an epic battle of the bands!

[Star_Scream]

Hehe i think he has enough drugs :D that's really funny dude.

[omnicypher]

i started making a low poly generic human for zbrushing. my plan is to zbrush 3 bodies, one normal, one buff and one fat. then ill photoshop concepts over them and decide how i want to do this. one thing i might keep from the dream is to have a musical instrument be the artifact.

[omnicypher]

heres a wip test sculpt of the mesh im working on, head needs more defining, needs hands. this is just to test my topology and find where things dont work so well. shoulder topology isnt anitomically correct, groin angle needs work. eventually this will be the standard model. when im done ill inflate some stuff to get a body builder version, and a fat/powerfull version. then ill photoshop ontop of all those for clothes. then model the clothes, then photoshop armor, model the armor, photoshop accesories, model accessories, and then i guess it will be done. in 2 months ill probably have 10 variations to choose from. if i have nothing better to do, half way through i might start modelling a female version. im usually a procrastonator, so i have to shoot to finish way early in order to finish on time. with this concepting method, ill be prepared for any changes to the rules or story line when the real war begins.

[clockwerkz]

Yeah I'm definitely feeling these characters. I can see your progression with the actual character, and I'm also very happy to see you're keeping those artifacts. You're going to want that potion and large book on your model to make that personality shine. Keep rocking, man!!!

[omnicypher]

started cutting into the face. trying to get my topology nice and neat, while slowly pushing all the triangles/ngons twards the ears. once the topology is there, sculpture should be a breeze.

[Puckducker]

Your topology seems pretty good so far. Watch the loop that goes under the jaw to up around the forehead (kinda like a chin strap on a helmet). It's really needed to get a good transition between the front and side of the head. Right now you've got a fairly large empty section right where the side cheek would go that'll translate bad in zBrush.

Looking good so far though. Don't get too far ahead though....slow and steady, right?

[omnicypher]

im taking a break from anatomy to think about clothing style. 1000 years without machines. last time we were without machines was the 1800s, so i might barrow some of the clothing style from that era. i want to have somthing dynamic, loose, and flowing with the wind. i also want parts to be contrastingly tight. i will also include straight lines with high contrast in color and shape, with sharp angles and perfect curves to accent the clothing and represent the futuristic side of things. buttons, collars, belts and accents should be enough detail for the clothing layer. i might use civil war general/army/pirate clothing for references. i want it to be elegant yet powerfull. it should have flow and style to represent wealth and respect, but also have flexability to allow for proper combat. the goal of the standard model will be representing agility, very light if any armor, and the grace of a well respected general.

[DemolishMan]

good thinking, 1000 years is a long time.

[omnicypher]

maybe a bit too oldschool looking, might need to add a few futuristic elements, but it is a start, comments and critisizm will be appreciated. (and yes i know he has a little captain in him, lol)

[Puckducker]

I like your concept for cloathing. I think you should maybe push to have more dynamic cloth, since it'll really give a lot more energy to a still posed character.

Your style does sorta remind me of Cervantes from Soul Caliber...you might want to look him up as good reference for design. http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4165/concept4534c06fbyh8.jpg

[omnicypher]

WOW! i didnt even think of that for a reference, its perfect! plus they change him a little every game, so theres alot of reference from one character. i started looking up civil war general, got inspired, and just jumped right into painting. i havent even got to pirate or army references yet. im thinking of making a quick concept to see what an impossibly huge/strong pirate might look like. after making a few similar concepts, i might frankestine the best parts together. thanks again for the reference ideas puckducker!

its difficult to find any references on cervantes. the one that was posted here is the best one i can locate, and its fan art. i might have to break out the ps2 for this one...

[omnicypher]

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20000720/gard_pfv.htm
after reading this, ive come to realize theres more to think about when it comes to character design, than what ive been putting into this concept. i dont think a great character can be built from just tacking on various accessories. the most well known, recongnizable characters are stripped down to thier core, and only essential, defining items are present. i havent fully taken into account the environment, or gameplay aspects of this character. i think i will start by designing a mood for this character, then a personality, then a stance, then the clothing and then only the essential defining accessories should be included.

[pingu722]

Hi Omnicypher

I really like your guitar character
because it's a Brand-new idea I never saw it before,
Maybe they can use instruments to conjure some dark force...:evil:

[omnicypher]

thanks, hes pretty much based completely on slash from guns and roses. i think i might include a musical instrument in my final work, it might help me stand out from the crowd. ive been working on super human proportions. basically i put on some heavy metal, and i keep chanting in my head bad ass, with an angry look on my face, hoping the energy will flow into my creation.

[omnicypher]

im liking these proportions so far. i fixed the legs and made the stance a bit more dynamic. changed the weapon to a spiked ball with our symbol as the spikes. comments and crits are helpfull.

[omnicypher]

his dog tags are ancient summoning artifacts passed down for generations, giving him unlimited ammo and every accurate bullet kills and revives the enemy, forcing them to kill for his cause.

[omnicypher]

can i change my name to Cyrano Starchaser?

[omnicypher]

started coloring a bit, still testing different color schemes for this guy.

[omnicypher]

i feel the whole point of this competition was to vaguely move away from robots and electronics towards a more magical fantasy timeline. robots=future, fantasy=past, and my current concept is somewear in the middle. so im going back to the drawing board for some more fantasy inspired creations.

[omnicypher]

more concepts

[omnicypher]

i almost finished my base mesh, and i started sculpting some muscles. proportions still might need a little tweaking. comments and crits are apreciated.

[lampshadehead]

those are like muscles without the skin on? Is this a skinless warrior? Because that'd be really scary

[Tank[NL]]

ya, i agree. whats the deal? did he filet himself, or what? (yes, i know the term is "skinned", but filet just sounds more gruesome :) )

[omnicypher]

Progress:

[omnicypher]

im sculpting with rakes, which is why everything looks like muscle. i love the tools in zbrush 3, they let you sculpt like it was real clay. if i was to sculpt somthing in real clay, i would always try to keep the surface rough and messy until the end, making it easier to see the imperfections on a large scale, instead of focusing on getting everything perfectly smooth. it also makes it easier to smooth everything perfectly later. once the sculpting is completed, i plan to smooth most of it, but some of these lines will stay to keep it looking like rough skin. a skinned warrior would be cool, but sadly i did that for the last competition i entered (Baal Durok)

[lampshadehead]

Cool! Nice that you can stick with the skills you've already built with real clay, keep up the good work

[omnicypher]

i feel like ive been concentrating too much on making a human, and not enough on making a character. im thinking about scrapping all ive done so far and starting over.

[Puckducker]

I wouldn't consider totally scrapping everything. It can be tempting at times, but I think your last update concepts look pretty cool...especially the one human dude with the skin texture the way you had it.

Just cause he's human doesn't mean he can't dominate in this competition....just have to be creative with how you plan to implement him.

[omnicypher]

i realized i never really made good armor or clothes before, i would always start with a base mesh and sculpt with alphas in zbrush, but i think i might have to create the high poly armor in 3dsmax to keep from getting a pixolated normal map. i dont know of a way to make a normal map in zbrush from a bunch of objects and bake it onto a single solid object. i might have to learn to use max's baking features for this one.

[Puckducker]

Your armor there looks pretty good...I remember tacking buckles and straps in zBrush and how tricky they can be, but you've done a pretty solid job on them.

Regarding baking normals, there are tonnes of options open to you for baking normals from many objects to one....but I'd recommend baking objects separately and then combing then normal maps together in photoshop....it's much easier to control your bakes and it makes everything much much simpler.

[Chung Wong]

Nice looking straps and buckles.

[omnicypher]

thanks, the straps and buckles were modeled in max and stamped on with an alpha in zbrush. but i think i might acctually model all the buckles and straps in max realistically, rather than just stamping it on. i probably will bake the organic stuff and clothes in zbrush, then separatly bake the armor in max.

[omnicypher]

wireframe:

[omnicypher]

i just got back from megacon (anime convention) and i saw alot of inspiring characters. i might make a few more concept sketche before i jump too far into this one.

[omnicypher]

ive done normal and strong concepts, so i decided to start thinking fat. im not sure if miniguns are machines or are they acceptable?

[omnicypher]

the future/fantasty/no electronics is driving me nuts! when i think future/fantasy, i think alot of plastic, LEDs, and cyborgs. when i think of fantasy without electricity, i think of ancient fantasy. but that leaves out the future element. in my mind, it all boils down to somthing looking not futureistic or ancient, but something inbetween. the prompt keeps destroying my concepts' magical and futuristic qualities. as long as i keep using humans, theyll probably keep ending up looking current and magicless unless i make them ancient, wich will kill the future vibe. to sum it up, future/fantasy = easy, no robots/fantasy = easy, future/fantasy/no mechanical = headache! my only hope might be to give up on the human race and move on to aliens and monsters. fantasy+alien might be the only thing that equals future/magical/non mechanical/galactic.

[omnicypher]

some more work on my human model. should his waist be wider? are his ears too small?

[omnicypher]

wip: currently retopoligizing my mesh. im around 3150 tris so far, working outward towards the feet and hands. my goal will be between 4500 and 6000 tris to leave room for armor, clothes and weapons.

[omnicypher]

good topology can go a long way. in 4000 tris i can get almost as much large detail as my zbrush sculpts. if all else fails and i dont finish this comp, at least ill walk away with the best topology for an anitomical model ive ever made.

[Puckducker]

That's what it's all about. When it comes down to it, the most important thing to walk away from this competition is the experiance of trying to build as solid a character as you can.

Your topology looks great....I think his shoulders hang down just a little too low, but it's perfectly acceptable. And, yeah, good low poly topology is about using your polys for the shape, form and silhouettes of your character and leaving the normal map to take care of superficial details that you'd never see a shift of perspective on, like the muscles and folds.

[kicksachi]

The dream is awesome...maybe its a sign. Keep the work up Bro.

[omnicypher]

im sick of humans, their week, stupid, non futuristic, and cant use any good magic, worst of all, they killed my inspiration and creativity. im going to go more demonic/alien/antihuman for the rest of this comp.

i think your right puckducker, i liked sculpting the simpler version alot better. i could decide to erase detail and paint it elsewhere, without having to drag or move anything. if the details in the base mesh are set in stone, it traps the sculptor in a box. but it is a good excercise, and i plan to finish it once this competition is over.

kicksachi: thanks, i might still use the guitar axe as a weapon idea, maybe mixed with the following concept:

[omnicypher]

ive been sculpting alot of random head concepts.

[omnicypher]

fixed some proportions. every concept i make is better than the last by leaps and bounds. before this comp, i couldnt draw concepts for characters, i would just model and sculpt them. then again, before this comp i didnt have a wacom tablet.

[omnicypher]

ive built alot of torsos recently, and this is the best one i made as far as simplicity, topology, and ease of sculpting it. i also started on some armor and a boot. i think for the armor, i will sculpt a single plate and copy and paste to make all the parts. i might add some chest armor or shoulder armor eventually.

[omnicypher]

built a new hand. my old one was 265 triangles and this one almost doubles that.

[omnicypher]

im almost done with the base mesh, 3,364 tris so far. i think the human head is just a place holder. this body isnt quite as proportionally anintomically accurate, but it seems to have more character, style, and strength.

[Puckducker]

Your latest update looks great, and I love those little hand studies. Turned out really well.

I think the waist might be a little too small. Also, I agree that human head should just be a place holder, since the more demon like face you concepted would probably be a more interesting fit.

[omnicypher]

thanks, i wasnt quite sure what was wrong with the waist, ill have to take another look at that.
i did some more sculpting and some painting heres what i got so far.
im not sure if i want to turn this into the demon concept, or just throw on some kind of jacket or shirt and give him a sawed off shotgun
maybe ill play with both ideas and decide later.

[omnicypher]

testing the normal mapping and playing with armor ideas. i think i will have a few versions to choose from in the end. the heavily armored one (most of his armor is made of a single piece at the moment) is at 5996 triangles. i dont like the chest plate much, so i might trade it for some strapping or chain. i still have to make a weapon (im thinking axe guitar that summons demons) maybe ill add some spikes to his shoulders, and some alpha hair on the human version.

[omnicypher]

right now its almost to 8000 triangles and only taking up 512X512 texture space. with this technique, detailed armor can be quickly blocked out and will take up less texture space. once i add enough ill simplify it a bit and add blue, translucent ice arms as a result from the artifact. plus, cyrano sounds kinda icy.

[lampshadehead]

very cool work. great modelling and normal mapping on the guy

[omnicypher]

thanks. todays been productive, but i should start eliminating some choices before i make too many options.

[omnicypher]

i made some progress on my human, but theres still alot to fix.

[grindill]

I'm partial to #4, blue skin with heavy armor. I think it has the most potential out of the bunch. Good job so far.

[kicksachi]

I,d say 3 or 4. But don't cover the face. Its a great way to express a great ROAR!!!. The armor is perfect.

[omnicypher]

thanks for the replies, i added the helmet for variety, but i never really planned on covering the face. theres really only 2 types of characters, one being personalized and one being vague. if your going to have an army of cloned characters, like in an rts, its good to give your character a helmet to keep him vague. but if you cover a main characters face (halo, carmine, kenny) you loose the personal connection the player has with the character. this is also the reason carmine and kenny always get killed, no one cares and he can always come back. in most character competitions, the idea is to make a personalized character, so covering up that meal ticket could lessen the odds of winning.

everyone ive asked so far said 3 and 4, and i like #2 too much to eliminate it this early, and 3 and 4 are the same thing with different textures. i might try blending all 3. i like the idea of blue arms, but a crystal blue transparent face is hard to see or understand. so i might make the face human, and the arms gradient fade from human to crystal ice, and the fabric of #2 seems to contrast well with the hard surface of the armor.

[omnicypher]

for a quick skin tone, i put a desaturated pink in all the valleys, cyan on all parts with hair, and desaturated yellow on whatevers left, then lightly cover all of it with a light tan.

[omnicypher]

i realized the new guy is a little weaker than the old one. im not sure if i should change his proportions to somthing more superhuman. the future is showing, but the magic isnt there quite yet. maybe he needs magic accessories like a potion, book, pouch, cape, staff, or hood. or maybe glowing blue crackled ice arms would do the trick.

[omnicypher]

i think i want to make him a more barbaric and magical looking warrior/wizard and a little less futuristic soldier. so im removing some armor and i plan on putting him on some steroids. im thinking sword or staff of ice or fire. i might add spiked wrist gaurds, or just wrap them with bandage. still might give him a dogs head or somthing wierd. the one on the right is at roughly 6500 tris and alot of that can be removed.

[omnicypher]

Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire, I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate, To say that for destruction ice, Is also great,And would suffice.
-Robert Frost

im not sure which direction im going in. blood, fire, ice... probably ice.

[omnicypher]

i started adding accessories and so far im at 6386 triangles (less than before because i deleted half the chain.) im having seam problems with the hood. almost all of the armor is just a size/shape placeholder.

[kicksachi]

I miss the old armor. Its ur choice. Give him 02 gloves. It might look neat.

[omnicypher]

i liked the old armor too, but it didnt look magical, brutal, or practical to make without machines. im going to try to steer everything towards handmade while still keeping the future vibe from the earlier concept. its the only way i could think to find the equilibrium between future and magic.

[Puckducker]

Nice update. The armor is looking pretty cool, especially the back piece. Not sure I entirely dig the blue jeans though. He kinda goes from being a street thug to a D&D character just because of the armor. It's an interesting look, but for me it kinda clashes too much.

Also, what are you doing for lighting? Some of your updates has this strange sort of under light key, but intense fill light. It's kinda making it hard to judge your work. I find it's best to leave the lighting right until the end, that way you're able to get your model and texture to look it's best, even in a dull default lighting setup. Then when you move onto real lighting, everything will look incredible!

[omnicypher]

yeah, the latest wip has default lighting, the one before it had 4 lights, one of them being negative, wich i wouldnt recommend using (it caused wierd red shadows). the reason im using blue jeans is, i would guess they would be the most likely clothes today to make it into the future, i might change the color though, green or black might work. besides changing the color, im not sure how i would change the pants. D&D/fantasy/magical is kinda what im going for. as long as it looks magical, im ok, as no one knows what future looks like.

[L3XICON]

maybe leave the colour of the jeans as mostly blue (fits team colours after all :D ) though really 'muck' them up. think dirt, rips, tears, stains and repairs etc.

[omnicypher]

ive been taking a break for the past 2 days to come back to my concept with fresh eyes. i realized i need to break up the symmetry, add more cloth (maybe a cape), and add more contrast (maybe glowing runes on his armor). i might get rid of the ice arms, turn the book into the artifact, and give him the power of necromancy. then i could make his pedestal a grave with an arm comming out. i might even give him the elf hood and the flute from my dream. im running out of time, and im beginning to procrastinate.

[omnicypher]

time is almost up and ive studied my character to the point that im beginning to loose interest. hes the best character i have ever made, but i think i could do alot better a second time around. i guess thats just the nature of progression. the expectations i have of myself rise as my abilities strive to catch up. if this continues eternally, i will never truly love anything that i complete, but i guess this is a burden all artists must bare. being fully content with ones creation shows a lack of gained experience and knowledge. i hope to never be content with the level of my artistic abilities!

[omnicypher]

its been fun and ive learned alot, but im officially throwing in the towel. i never came up with a solid concept to start with, and my base mesh wasnt great for sculpting on. the ears, nose, mouth, and neck all had horrible topology, the armor was repeditive (its all the same piece, i never got around to changing it like i planned), the accessories were half assed, and after moving the legs around too much, the boots texture became streatched out. i kinda liked the pants and boots, and the proportions of the body came pretty close to what i wanted. the sculpting of the face came out ok, but with my topology, certain areas baked with normal map artifacts. i never got around to painting eyebrows, or lips, and his ears baked so bad i gave him a hood to hide thier imperfections, while the hood itself had a bad texture seam right down the middle. i planned on overlaying fabric normals on all the cloth, but i never got to it. the hands were never touched in zbrush, which is why there still baby smooth. using chain to hold his armor on is kinda cool but logically, it makes no sense, other than to show off the sculpting i did on his chest. then again, that is the area i did spend the most time on. towards the end i procrastinated alot, because every time i would open the file, i would see all these imperfections that would be more difficult to fix than to start over. this was a great competition, and it greatly improved my concepting skills as well as my skin painting, and my anatomy sculpting has come a long way as well. i also learned a few more zbrush tricks like zproject, and material capturing. i have to say thanks to Fred H. for putting this all together and helping all these great artist strive to out do themselves, and for pushing the boundries of next gen video game art to a whole new level. good luck to all who fight for threedys dominance once again and thank you to everyone who helpfully commented and critiqued my work along the way. although i am a casualty of this battle, i will be resurected to fight for threedy next year, as revenge will be mine...

[omnicypher]

RIP Cyrano Starchaser, i never liked your name!