DWIII - 3D - arathalion - Losloth

[arathalion]

name: Losloth
race: Human
class: Invoker
artifact weapon: Frost Spear
Energy type: cold/water

some things are open to change depending on what happens when i get coloured concepts done.

ok, so after i read the brief i thought that a fantasy cross sci-fi design was in order... then i realised that a lot of space opera was just this but with specific themes of dirty and disreputable looking characters coupled with uniformed soldiers....

so i just went meh, this is gonna be interesting.

she has leather and boots that you would expect to see in something like farscape (which i just finnished watching, funnily enough). I figured that as an envoker she would have little to no armor, so i decided to go with leather clothes and give them hardened strips on her shoulders and left arm... then i realised thats just screams peace keeper, so i added in the tunic... dunno lol.

at this stage of concept im unsure as to weapon and power, but hay. for some reason im thinking staff.

im also unsure of what ill do with her hair.

in any case, after i get some idea of weapon then its off to GIMP with my tablet to play with colours.

here are a couple of (Very) rough sketches

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs30/f/2008/051/2/9/DWIII___Rough_Concept_01_by_arathalion_5.png
http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs29/f/2008/051/8/2/DWIII___Rough_Concept_02_by_arathalion_5.png

[arathalion]

i fail at frosting blades
http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs30/f/2008/051/7/4/DWIII___weapon_colour_01_by_arathalion_5.png

[arathalion]

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs29/f/2008/052/2/f/DWIII___character_concept_01_by_arathalion_5.png

ya know, i really have no idea what catagory this should go in. dA needs a concept art catagory (or i need to find an exisiting one).

i got lazy with that face and hair.

im going to have to do a larger version... the idea was to give her a vairing hair colour that was shot through with gray.

for some reason i think i should scrap the invoker thing and give her a bow, making her a stalker.

i suppose i could leave her as an invoker though. ill have to sleep on it.

in any case I'll do another couple of pics before i start modeling, i need a better pic of her head...

and i suppose i have to come up with some kind of finality for what she is.

any critique is welcome, from design to painting technique.

EDIT: hmmm, there is a question. now im thinking if the spear really nessasary. if she is an invoker... then perhaps its to much. perhaps i should just changer her two stalker and be done with it... perhaps give her knifes instead. dunno.

[Beindulin]

I'd suggest working on her actual appearance, as currently there isn't really much fantasy about her. Hair is a very important element of any woman (just ask one lol) and her current 'do' isn't doing her any favours. Is she going to have long hair -loose/pinned up/spiked or short hair ect... The grey, is that due to her age or just a design quirk?

Outfit... Currently lacks shape and direction and gives a frumpy appearance. Work on the design alittle more. Perhaps adding straps, changing the neck line, pockets ect. At the moment it looks alittle like something a waitress would wear (IMO)

Also I see no reason why an invoker wouldn't have weapons on them, besides either way she does need an artifact of some description :)

[arathalion]

design quirk, i figured if she is playing with frost...
yeah i have been rather iffy about what to do with her hair. i think i said a close up of her head to work this out was next on my todo list.

as to her general appearance, i never got outfits with random straps everywhere. that tunics colour can definatly be played with and im not sold on those jackets pockets. i dunno. i was kinda wanting something reasonably simple as apposed to pointless detail.

i dunno, the input is appreciated, sorry if i seem a bit stand offish...

i think i gave her a bracelet in the rough sketches... i had been thinking a necklace run around her wrist with a pendent as an artifact. we will see.

[arathalion]

http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs30/f/2008/052/0/b/DWIII___character_head_01_by_arathalion_5.png

and we have a head

looks like im going with windbroken hair... not sold on it... ill probably have to do another pic or two to get the length.

i think i could use a mid shot or two.

how to make her more "fantasy"

EDIT: i think she needs a fringe

[arathalion]

http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs30/f/2008/052/4/8/DWIII___character_mid_shot_by_arathalion_5.png

i really need a name, every image i scan and save... she needs a name.

in any case, i think im killing the right sleeve entirly. she can have a completely bare arm me thinks...

the left sleve now reaches to the bottom of her arm and connects to her finger. perhaps instead of leather i can make the gauntlet steel... though im a little iffy about it in the first place now.

think ill make the tunic shorter and change that collar around.

brought back bulky pockets to the jacket.

EDIT: no, i dont know whats with the book

[arathalion]

http://fc03.deviantart.com/fs28/f/2008/052/b/4/DW___character_backshot_01_by_arathalion_5.png

hair is shoulderlength excepting the ponytail

[arathalion]

perhaps if i change the way the jacket is tanned it will look less sci fi.

i dunno.

any ideas on how to make it more "fantasy" and less "sci-fi" whilst still keeping both would be appreciated.

perhaps simpily changing it to a cracked brown or even making it more swady.

thing is, if they once had the whole sci-fi thing going, how far would their fassion sense revert, even without tech.

i suppose as melee weapons would be back in so would steel armor, but how far would fabriced colthing regress? it would be relative, i supose, as to their production....

i dunno, perhaps if i make that bracer steel and give a steal shoulder pad... change the colours a bit...

[haikai]

any ideas on how to make it more "fantasy" and less "sci-fi" whilst still keeping both would be appreciated.

One thing that says "fantasy" to me is that hand crafted items often are custom tailored for the user and unique in embellishments. Sci-fi gear to me is mass produced, less unique looking, and less decorative. Technology allows for very clean lines and stitching is often well hidden and very small. For me, fantasy = more curved lines and natural forms, sci fi = more straight lines and geometric shapes. Just a generalization.

At the moment, her clothing does seem rather contemporary, in part because of the rectangular pads on her jacket. Perhaps a quilted look would appear more hand made. The boots also look kind of like modern military issue.

I like your idea for the staff. Perhaps you can work more of this frost idea into her clothing as well.

[arathalion]

One thing that says "fantasy" to me is that hand crafted items often are custom tailored for the user and unique in embellishments. Sci-fi gear to me is mass produced, less unique looking, and less decorative. Technology allows for very clean lines and stitching is often well hidden and very small. For me, fantasy = more curved lines and natural forms, sci fi = more straight lines and geometric shapes. Just a generalization.

a good one i think, especially the point about geometry. thinking about it for a bit afterwards i was thinking about everything looking really clean, new and sterile and i think i said something about uniformity before.

ill give the quilted look a go... i dont know what ill do with the boots. perhaps ill give them some more thought when i get the rest of her right.

[arathalion]

http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs28/f/2008/053/5/9/DWIII___she_still_needs_a_name_by_arathalion_5.png

mmm, more concept art.

i fail at frosting again, thought that if the bracer was steel then it would frost over.

changed the tunics colour, added freying and colour bleaching towards the buttom.

the jacket lost its shoulder padding. and is more brown

appart from her jacket she is going grey. though that might change.

EDIT: oh, i think im going to have to name her now, arent i.

i think the jacket is going to have to either go or change. might turn it into a coat of some discription with more colour.

[arathalion]

http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs29/f/2008/053/4/7/DWIII___losloth_by_arathalion_5.png

ok, ill call her losloth.

why not. its only sindarin for snow flower.

so,

losloth
human invoker
spear of frost.

lost the jacket, went with a heavy woollen (probably) coat, with some colour bleaching at the bottom...

so, thoughts on the change anyone?

[arathalion]

http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs29/f/2008/053/8/0/DWIII___losloth_back_and_boots_by_arathalion_5.png

quick drawing to show the back of her coat and a new boot design. now just soft leather laced at the side. simple design. it also shows the bottom of the tunic, the split is now a tear. done on perpose. ill probably put a seem right up there aswell. hmmm.

thanks to big toe for renaiming the thread. now ill go officialy enter.

might also update details in the first post....

[arathalion]

and so ive started modeling. still not sure how much i like the concept, but its better now.

how bout those ears.

http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs30/f/2008/054/d/2/DWIII___Losloth_WIP_by_arathalion_5.png

[ballo]

ey! good job. Only, I think the concept has appearance like a clerigon, but with modern clothes.

http://kepek.csillagkapu.hu/albums/evad9/9x06/SG1-906-0001.jpg

[arathalion]

lol, stargate.

do see your point. as far as im concerned the concept could still do with a bit of a touchup. we will see.

[Puckducker]

Nice. I like the pole arm weapon you've got so far. Wires for your head look good too. I think with your character your success is going to lay in how well you can model that head to look realistic.

[arathalion]

a good challenge i think. i personally don't expect to win but id like to make it through at least one stage. otherwise i'm really only in it for the learning xp. i don't have nearly enough mudbox xp so it will be a good learning process.

something im also going to enjoy is frosting over metal. ive thought about a few ways to tackle it but for the moment ill stick to getting the base mesh down.

[Beindulin]

grins* Not a problem ;p My latest thoughts... Outfit design is MUCH better with coat. Any reasons why it stops mid calf? I know you said you wasn't interested in finicky details, but I think changing the shape of the tunic (eg: one that crosses over sort of like a wrap-around) or thickening the belt up would help her figure out :)

I've always imagined an Invoker to just be enraptured in their own power. So hair wise have you thought of trying something that portrays that? Some sort of "up-do" or could be shorter and spiked like icicles

[arathalion]

Any reasons why it stops mid calf?
not particularly, that could change.

perhaps a change in the belt. part of me wants to drop it completely. we will see.
the crossing over thing could work two... the problem with the coat is that it alows for less room to move with this i think.

So hair wise have you thought of trying something that portrays that? Some sort of "up-do" or could be shorter and spiked like icicles

actually, i was origonaly going to do something done up with chopsticks or something and try to give her a more regal imposing look. then it just didnt seem to work with the original concept and my idea for hair shot through with grey.... perhaps something that was neatly done up and is now been pulled out in places and made messy.

perhaps ill give it another go.

im actually thinking of having a snowish effect on her cloak to go with the frosted metal, to give the impressions she had just been thick in it.

unforuntatly i dont think im going to get any time to work on it till friday, and maybe even not then. atm im a student for the first half of the week (mon/wed) and then a student teacher the other half. i just got home from 12 hours of strait school, 4 hours of school and the rest was tutoring. i am tired (and yes, all those people joking about saying goodby to their loved ones for this war. its no joke.)

[arathalion]

http://fc03.deviantart.com/fs29/f/2008/060/5/4/DWIII___losloth_02_by_arathalion_5.png

and i has arms hands an a body. ill extend that down to the bottom of the tunic then do the legs as an element underneigth.

i think im going to go work on that nose again.

EDIT: picture update

[arathalion]

http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs30/f/2008/060/e/f/DWIII___Losloth_03_by_arathalion_5.png

currently at a quater of the poly limit.

really need to get some reference for hair done up so i can think about changing it.

[arathalion]

http://fc03.deviantart.com/fs29/f/2008/060/c/b/DWIII___Losloth_bracer_by_arathalion_5.png

after much distraction, i has a bracer.

a rather high poly bracer.


and i really dont like that hand

[L3XICON]

one thing I like about your concept work is how much of a real world feel it has to it :) no crazy huge armour, massive boots and ten foot broadswords, everything, although fantastical you can imagine in the world we know :P is quite refreshing and different. If you can get that sense of realism into the models and textures then I think you will have a truly original entry for this competition :D good work, and good luck!

[arathalion]

heh, its all going to be in the textures.... there is no way ill get anywhere, lol. ahh, we'll see.

thanks, id wish you luck too but i saw your entry and your "quick tests". don't think you'll need it. cant wait to see your finished entry.

[arathalion]

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs30/f/2008/061/d/2/DWIII___Losloth_Spear_01_WIP_by_arathalion_5.png

and i has a spear.

might make it octaganal instead of hexaginal, poligons alowing. im also thinking hte same for her arms.

3,730 polys down

EDIT: and i cant get the join between the blade and the shaft to my liking when viewed from the side

http://fc03.deviantart.com/fs28/f/2008/061/0/a/DWIII___Losloth_spear_02_WIP_by_arathalion_5.png

[arathalion]

http://maxious.lambdacomplex.org/oekaki/pictures/OP_2.png

ok, so being into hair now ive done another study, if you can call it that. i think ill just model both and see what i prefer, then its onto cleaning up and detailing.

[arathalion]

http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs28/i/2008/061/a/5/DWIII___Losloth_hair_study_01_by_arathalion_5.png

hair study time.

windbroken done first cause it seemed easer to block out quickly.

i think i spent more time uploading it than i did actually putting it in there. seing it was just several edge extrusions and why isnt firefox spellchecking stuff anymore......

anyway, i know i should reposition those two shots so that they arnt facing eachother but im just going to block out some kind of hair bun. brb

[arathalion]

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs28/f/2008/061/e/b/DWIII___losloth_hair_study_02_by_arathalion_5.png

ok, so i has two rough hair study things.

i kinda like the first. but then that could just be me and my liking long hair.

opinions?

[arathalion]

http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs28/f/2008/063/8/7/DWIII___Losloth_concept_03_by_arathalion_5.png

and my so my i get to use the same character for both my modeling assignment and dominance war. that makes life easer.

teacher wants me to touch up concept a bit, which i kind of agree with doing cause it is a bit lacking. so hear is some touched up concept art.

[haikai]

your concept has improved a lot since i saw it last, and i think you found a reasonable compromise with her clothing. i wonder if the blade of the polearm is a bit plain though. perhaps you want to keep things understated, but things are always a little over the top in game art for readability.

for the most part, your mesh looks decent as far as topology is concerned although her proportions are unexpected. from the concept, i was expecting a slimmer, "regular" heroine figure, but the model seems a bit wide bodied at the moment. the head is a bit on the large side which makes her feel short, and her fingers are rather stubby. of course, it's still very early, but it's probably easier to address these things sooner than later.

since this is a game model, perhaps having her coat as part of her body mesh would make more sense. it would be easier to rig to prevent clipping. if you plan on sculpting this further in zbrush/mudbox then keeping them separate may be a good idea, but you may still want to consider having it be one mesh for the final low poly model.

i wonder what you had in mind for the final look of your model, like what kind of body type and face you're after. at the moment it doesn't look like you're necessarily aiming for the typical supermodel heroine look, which is fine except that sometimes that's actually harder to pull off successfully.

[arathalion]

your concept has improved a lot since i saw it last, and i think you found a reasonable compromise with her clothing. i wonder if the blade of the polearm is a bit plain though. perhaps you want to keep things understated, but things are always a little over the top in game art for readability.

perhaps, im not so happy with how its turned out so far, so ill have a look at changing it a bit latter but for the moment i think im going to concentrait on the body.


for the most part, your mesh looks decent as far as topology is concerned although her proportions are unexpected. from the concept, i was expecting a slimmer, "regular" heroine figure, but the model seems a bit wide bodied at the moment. the head is a bit on the large side which makes her feel short, and her fingers are rather stubby. of course, it's still very early, but it's probably easier to address these things sooner than later.

yeah, i have had a couple of comments on the size of her head and i will go and have a look at those proportions. i just grabbed the first photo ref i found to make sure the proportions where correct, now that they are ill be able to play with it. her hands are something im really not happy with so i might have to hunt down something about them. but yeah, i wouldnt be supprised if she does turn out being short.


since this is a game model, perhaps having her coat as part of her body mesh would make more sense. it would be easier to rig to prevent clipping. if you plan on sculpting this further in zbrush/mudbox then keeping them separate may be a good idea, but you may still want to consider having it be one mesh for the final low poly model.

i had been tossing up how to do the coat, and now that im changing the concept im still looking at it.

i had been thinking about both making it a single mesh or just deleting the polys underneith. one way i dont have seem problems, the other way saves polys and could perhaps be better. ill keep your suggestion of keeping them seperate till ive normal mapped them in mind when i do her uv's.


i wonder what you had in mind for the final look of your model, like what kind of body type and face you're after. at the moment it doesn't look like you're necessarily aiming for the typical supermodel heroine look, which is fine except that sometimes that's actually harder to pull off successfully.
i always had been a bit of a glutton for punishment. lol.

i was glad when L3XICON noted the "reality", shall we say, of the character. i suppose i tend to like doing more serious and more real work than most. part of the reason she is clad head to toe is probably a subconscious aversion to the standard "female fantasy armor" (aka mail bikini)... infact probably the whole reason my character is female. but yes, you are correct. id like to do someone who is more "real" than your supermodels or your normal game characters. im setting myself a pretty large chalange there and yeah, my teacher looked at my concept art today and was basically telling me it needs more to it. so it looks like im going to have to sit down and do a coupe of really detailed pics to get the idea across. ]

thank you very much for the detailed critique. good luck to you.

[arathalion]

http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs28/f/2008/066/b/b/DWIII___Losloth_WIP_04_by_arathalion_5.png

ok, ive made some fixes to propotions, her face and arms, detailed her ears a bit more and made some fixes to her hands... that said i think im going to jump strait back in and fix that hand/lower arm a little more.

[Tejay]

yo neil, most people have wrists :P otherwise sweet work

[arathalion]

if you read the comment below the pic you'll notice that i said id fix that.

hows barney going? lol

EDIT:
http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs26/f/2008/066/b/6/DWIII___losloth_hand_by_arathalion_5.png

[Tejay]

pft barney, whos doing that? unless he became angry cool and blue, i would assume no one. My model on the other hand is going well, i am almost ready to bring it into brush and make it even better :P

[arathalion]

lol, i dunno. did johno actually do that colour correction?

[Tejay]

yes but the only thing that made it even remotely like barnie was the colours, if i had seen it properly though i might have hurt him for ruining my design

[arathalion]

http://fc03.deviantart.com/fs28/f/2008/067/d/0/DWIII___losloth_concept_back_by_arathalion_5.png

another concept image of her back. hopefully that'll be it.

[arathalion]

http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs25/f/2008/067/7/c/DWIII___Losloth_WIP_05_by_arathalion_5.png
and so she has hair.

http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs25/f/2008/067/f/9/DWIII___Losloth_WIP_06_by_arathalion_5.png


full body shot. i guess next i have to attach that cloak and then use some of those 4,500 polys i have left. (yep, im at half the poly count, though after attaching that coat to her body this is likely to change.)

[arathalion]

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs25/f/2008/067/7/1/DWIII___Losloth_WIP_07_by_arathalion_5.png

i deleted the coat and started over it over. the dark blue jacket under it will probably only appear in the normal maps.

extruded some polys and removed shape.

4484 polys in total.

[arathalion]

well, it seems i have been rather busy this week... i would have liked to have more time to put to DWIII but hey. ive gotten a bit done, so i should update.

first, my teacher wanted me to do a bit more with my concept so here it is:

http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs27/f/2008/075/8/b/DWIII___Losloth_concept_05_by_arathalion_5.png
http://fc03.deviantart.com/fs30/f/2008/075/3/5/DWIII___losloth_back_02_by_arathalion_5.png
http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs26/f/2008/075/7/3/DWIII___losloth_face_by_arathalion_5.png

yeah, i might have cheeted with that face a bit. not that happy with it but hey. that said, im now worrying about how im going to get a skin tone for her texture now... photo sampling perhaps...

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs28/f/2008/075/8/9/DWIII___Losloth_WIP_08_by_arathalion_5.png
http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs30/f/2008/075/f/d/DWIII___Losloth_WIP_09_by_arathalion_5.png
http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs30/f/2008/075/9/1/DWIII___Losloth_WIP_10_by_arathalion_5.png

ok, so im relativly happy with her mesh atm. only problem is that i feel i should use all 9000 polys while im currently at 5378. there are things in there that i only want to detail in normals. i played with the idea of her coat being part ofthe main mesh, and actually did it then decided not to after talking with teachers. i wont have as many seem issues and it works better around the her neck.

anyway, i think ill try to put a bit more detail in and unwrap her. any crit/suggestions would be apprecated.

[arathalion]

http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs26/f/2008/080/9/8/DWIII___Losloth_WIP_11_by_arathalion_5.png
http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs26/f/2008/080/b/c/DWIII___Losloth_WIP_12_by_arathalion_5.png

started normal mapping.

ill see how much i can get done in the next four days.

[L3XICON]

good progress arathalion :) you may want to bring out the hair a little, at the moment I think its a little close to the head, almost like it is wet. keep it up :D

[arathalion]

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs30/f/2008/080/9/e/DWIII___losloth_WIP_13_by_arathalion_5.png

heh, i just "finnished" her hair. which means that really im not happy with it and may redo it.

basicaly made the mistake of doing the top layers of her hair first. you may notice that her poneytail has a more subtle bump than the rest of her hair. i think i like it more.

i did bring it out a little though. i was kind of going for reasonably strait hair originaly, which is probably another reason to redo the normals. they make it look a little bit like its thick and wavy, or perhaps wet curly as you suggested.

another thing is i think her face looks a little gaunt. may change this too.

thanks much for the comments and encouraging words.

EDIT: actually theres a question, what do people think about how heavy i should make the bump. i read through a tutorial suggesting that hair normals should only be clumps of hair and such. one of last years dominance war chars actually. what do people think on this? heaver bump like on the top of her haid or a more subtle one like on her pony tail?

[arathalion]

now that those bandages are "done" my hand is so sore.

mmmm, seems

http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs26/i/2008/080/0/f/DWIII___Losloth_WIP_14_by_arathalion_5.png

[arathalion]

http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs29/f/2008/082/f/f/DWIII___losloth_wip_15_by_arathalion_5.png
just to show that i havent spent all weekend doing nothing... though that said i really need to move onto that coat and/or finding stamps.

[Tejay]

how ya finding normal mapping neil, lots of fun huh?

[arathalion]

indeed. i really should be sculpting now... but im being lazy. its easter, etc.

mostly done though... well, if you exclude fine detail likely to be stamped on...

[Tejay]

hehe nice, i'm still considering redoing my high poly model a third time, that and i have to unwrap...evil unwrapping...

[arathalion]

http://fc08.deviantart.com/fs30/f/2008/088/b/b/DWIII___Losloth_WIP_16_by_arathalion_5.png
http://fc08.deviantart.com/fs27/f/2008/088/8/d/DWIII___Losloth_WIP_17_by_arathalion_5.png

Ok, so, you might notice that i need a glosiness map, and probably to generally play with the diffuse.

less noticable is the failing snow. as in i failed at making it, not the snow itself failing... which i suppose it would do anyway. i guess ill have to look into that again tomorrow.

perhaps even looking into ref maps. what are they called? envornment maps? well, i suppose im getting ahead of myself there a bit. i need that snow working.

i also have yet to give her grey streaks. i wanted to get her hair working first. its probably the only thing im happy with... cept the alpha seems to be weirding out a bit.

oh, it also seems she is a bit crosseyed atm.

[arathalion]

http://fc08.deviantart.com/fs27/f/2008/090/f/a/DWIII___Losloth_WIP_18_by_arathalion_5.png

so i got distracted this weekend.

um, well, the snow is fixed ish.

ill probably rig her tomorrow, and continue working on textures as needed.

currently got diff, normal, spec, ambient and gloss... though it seems that ambient is not one of the aloud maps... so itll have to come off.

got a few bits on the mesh to fix up now im going to rig her (eyes are crosseyed.)

also thinking about removing the snow from her arm...

dunno yet.

[arathalion]

http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs29/f/2008/095/9/5/DWIII___Losloth_WIP_19_by_arathalion_5.png


ok, so i fixed the opacity issue and got amient colour working.

also started rendering with lights and have done facial morph targets for the mouth.
next step will probably be ones for the eyes to show emotion.

that and rigging the hp mesh.

few things that need to be done with the textures. i need to fix the ambient colour, but i can only use that in the glamour shot so its not that high of a priority.

[arathalion]

and im out.

or in and "finnished"

meh to the texture. dont like it but what ever.

very meh.

7though something polycount.

i think i need sleep before i start other stuff.

so yeah, theres my entry. pitty that textures make the model. cause mines pretty crap.

http://www.gameartisans.org/contests/events/uploaded_images/38-game-3d-art-5384-1207755667-image.jpg
http://www.gameartisans.org/contests/events/uploaded_images/38-game-3d-art-5384-1207755716-image.jpg
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