View Full Version : Ghost Orchid
24-02-2008, 05:39 AM
Here's something I've been working on in my spare time for the last couple of weeks. It's a rare type of orchid- you may have seen the movie Adaptation, if so you'll recognize the name.
Here's a quick composite of that's getting toward what I want it to be like. Obviously needs more samples and such.
Here's a render straight out of mental ray:
Here are some other lighting tests:
And some wireframes from awhile ago. I drew the shape with splines first to get it right, then used that as a reference to poly model it.
It's still very much in progress. I haven't finished texturing it at all- no bump, no specular, etc.
I'm planning to do one still pretty much from this angle- not sure about the background yet. I might go ahead and model the root structure of the plant which attaches to a tree like in this picture:
Comments and suggestions welcome :)
24-02-2008, 10:42 AM
looks great so far according to the reference I`ve checked out.
The only difference I see is that the first 2 white parts of the petal should protrude more and come closer to the end petals ,they seem a little small at the moment.With some SSS the proper lighting and some subtle DOF i can see this being photo real.
24-02-2008, 04:20 PM
Here are some of the references I've been using (I have about 100 photos of this flower I've collected on the web.)
You can see in the first 2 the little petals you mentioned vary in size quite a bit. I guess mine don't look like either of those, but I think I'm going to stick with the shape I have- hey artistic license :)
The last pic shows how pretty the SSS/translucency is on these flowers. They have an almost greenish glow. I think I want my image to be a night scene lit by bright moonlight that illuminates the flower from behind and I want it to have an eerie feeling. I'll post more progress later.
24-02-2008, 05:10 PM
Lighting keeps it from standing out much, but otherwise it's good so far.
25-02-2008, 02:06 AM
Lighting keeps it from standing out much, but otherwise it's good so far.
Agreed. Lighting is giving me issues. I played around with the SSS Fast materials today- with mediocre results. Example:
I've never used any of the sss materials before- any advice? I'll figure it out eventually I suppose!
26-02-2008, 01:19 PM
That looks great so far. Very nice and clean modeling. I wish I could help on the SSS front... but my use of them is limited as well. :(
26-02-2008, 03:07 PM
I'm moving away from the lighting for the moment because it is making me frustrated. I'm going to finish putting in the details on the flower such as the stem and finishing up the little nubby part in the middle and then get the diffuse and bump mapping in order.
I was thinking about my lighting ideas and maybe they are flawed. If it is a clear night and moonlight hits the flower from the back, maybe all you would see is a dark silhouette with highlights. I don't know. If I can't get something decent looking, I'm going to change my idea and do a sunny day instead. Much easier. I want to figure out the SSS thing either way. Guess I'll just keep playing!
27-02-2008, 03:36 AM
Some more modeling...
27-02-2008, 04:28 AM
Try this site, great resource
might help you with your sss issues
27-02-2008, 05:08 PM
This stuff makes a splendid mood to me! Waiting for your further acts!
28-02-2008, 04:00 AM
Found this tutorial today:
which was really good. It's for Maya, but works for Max too. You can just skip all the rendering nodes stuff if you use max, it's a lot less confusing.
Here's a test I did while following the tutorial:
Acquiring skills necessary to get the result I want...
28-02-2008, 02:47 PM
So these magic means helped people to achieve vivid, miraculous scenes~! Hey! :lurve:
28-02-2008, 03:24 PM
It is almost like magic :)
In case you don't realize it, that last image has only one directional light coming from the back. No GI or anything. Without the SSS, the whole scene is black, except the highlights on the left. The Fast Simple SSS material adds about a second to the render time- totally negligible.
If there is interest, I will write a brief tutorial for 3DS Max, but I do recommend the gnoman tutorial if you really want to understand it.
29-02-2008, 01:01 AM
I have the gnomon tut (haven't yet watched it though), but if you could write a brief thing about the things you need to be aware of when applying it to Max, that would be really good.
29-02-2008, 02:04 AM
Modeling on this is great. The first time I saw this flower was in Adaptation. It gave me a kind of uncomfortable creepy feeling. Your model gives me that same feeling. But in this case it means you've done a good job.
You'll be able to figure out the materials and all as you go. It's coming along very well!
29-02-2008, 04:26 AM
....Don't you think the plot of the movie adaptation defined a first impression deeply into the spectators' mind? I mean it may be like a kind of mental suggestions... I hadn't watched the movie until this morning, so at first glance of kate's model and the photos I didn't think the plant was anything creepy! Imagine that if a movie had put it into a scene of a fairyland and everything in it was fine without fear and terror, would you have thought the stuff creepy? You would perhaps think it to be saintly! Or is there some deviation of artistic feelings of me??:!!!:
Hi, kate! For me I'm still concentrating on the very basic skills and thoeries currently. I'm only going to learn this kind of special techniques summaryly recently. If you write a tutorial for max that will be a much fine asset for us beginners when we need to study it! Over all, thanks in advance and take your time! Cheers!
29-02-2008, 05:20 AM
I love that movie.
29-02-2008, 02:00 PM
If you use Max and you watch the Gnomon tutorial, you can skip these parts:
7:14-19:27- he describes how to set up the material and get it working in Maya. In Max, you can just choose the SSS Fast Simple material type and apply it to your model.
54:49-56:03 - he goes over this again.
The other difference is just how maps are applied. If you are a Max user, it will be obvious like all the other materials. (Apply a bump map by clicking the button next to bump, etc.)
You can use whatever kind of lighting you want. I set it up with one MR direct light, next I'm going to try it with a daylight system. One thing I've already learned is that if you use indirect lighting, there is an option in the SSS Fast material parameters to "scatter indirect illumination" and that must be checked. You also have to turn off "Screen soft compositing of layers" when using indirect light.
I'll see if I can make a quick simple tutorial for Max.
02-03-2008, 03:01 AM
Thank you very much for your tips!
02-03-2008, 03:36 AM
You're welcome! Still messing around with it. Another test:
02-03-2008, 11:55 AM
I've never seen the fast SSS material. (Max 2008) - Where is it?
02-03-2008, 02:45 PM
Make sure you have Mental Ray enabled as your renderer. The SSS Fast Material is the one I've been playing with and the one used in the tutorial.
04-03-2008, 03:10 AM
More render tests:
09-03-2008, 02:41 AM
09-03-2008, 10:25 AM
This is looking very pretty and accurate, honestly looking at your references I can't say for certain how you could improve it, maybe by adding some translucency, I think that rendering and lighting will be key for getting the best out of this piece.
09-03-2008, 12:51 PM
Thanks for the comment, 0202742. I'm going to model one more stem with a flower bud, finish up the composition then move back to lights and textures.
17-03-2008, 02:43 AM
18-03-2008, 03:41 AM
18-03-2008, 04:07 AM
Agreed. Looks a bit washed out overall though.
18-03-2008, 05:48 AM
Really like the direction this is going in, love the myst, personally I would like it if you could try to find a way to add a bit of warmth to the image. I think the orchids look a bit too perfect imo even if they are accurate to the concept, maybe try imperfecting the colour maps slightly to give them a slightly more realistic look.
18-03-2008, 11:43 AM
Thanks for the comments guys. I think I've made the flowers too green and I want them to be more white. Agreed about the perfect thing. I think when I finish the texture, I'll finish make one of the flowers different somehow. Smaller, more curled up, or something.
I'm going to be trying different lighting situations to see what looks right. The mist certainly takes care of the "what should I do with the background?" question!
18-03-2008, 04:20 PM
You're headed in the right direction, I think. You have the modeling looking good, so your skills with materials and shaders will make or break this image. Lighting will also play a huge role.
19-03-2008, 08:50 AM
as a back ground i'd probably would put another tree in the distance.(no detail that can draw out the eye....
makes the fog more spooky with depth.
05-04-2008, 11:38 PM
I've been thinking about what I want to do with this scene and I've decided to also model the Giant Sphinx Moth, which is the only insect with a probiscus long enough to pollinate the Ghost Orchid.
So I've been collecting pictures of them. Man are they freaky. With a wing span of up to 7 inches, I wouldn't want to see one of these for real. I like the creepy factor though and I think it will add the missing element to the scene- make it more dynamic.
Here's a picture of the creepy Giant Sphinx Moth:
Yes, that IS its tongue.
Here's a picture of a similar moth in flight. I'll probably do a motion shot like this:
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