Total Sculpting Noob- Help Me Learn (Brancusi's The Kiss) [Archive]

RockstarKate

01-07-2008, 03:47 PM

Ok, I have a small vacation coming tomorrow. I have the trial versions of Mudbox and Zbrush, a tablet, and I am an experienced 3D Studio Max user. I want to complete a small project using Mudbox and Max and the same project using ZBrush and Max. I would like to go through the whole deal -Max to Sculpt back to Max, render a turn around in Mental Ray. At the end of this, I will purchase one sculpting app and hopefully never look at the other again
I have chosen Brancusi's The Kiss for this exercise. It is simple and has texture, some symmetry, some asymmetry... Picture attached

I have watched all videos on both apps and done some small tutorials, but never made any thing in either (other than a big mess, LOL)

First question: How should I start? How much modeling would you do in Max to start? Just make a simple box of the right size? Or should I model some of the major details? I want to hear from Mudbox and ZBrush users- please tell me why you think your software is the best Fanboys welcome.

***EDIT JULY 15***

JohnnyRaptor

01-07-2008, 04:40 PM

In both cases, i would start with a box, preferably of the right size. subdivide a few times, and start sculpting.

RockstarKate

01-07-2008, 05:00 PM

Ok, I'm doing mudbox first because it doesn't scare me as much a Zbrush :)
So here's my simple box from max, correctly UV unwrapped and brought into Mudbox:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c15/rockstarkate/box.jpg

Too simple?

Here it is on subdivision level 3:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c15/rockstarkate/subdivided.jpg

So let me see if I get this- I should start sculpting in major features on a lower subd level (3? or should it be higher do you think?) on one layer, then make a new layer and add more subdivisions and more detail and so on?

JohnnyRaptor

01-07-2008, 05:16 PM

well, some people like to start at lowest level and sculpt there, and then go up one step and so on and so forth, and some people (like me) sculpt on a mid level, then go up and down and adjust accordingly

pables

01-07-2008, 05:18 PM

Hi Kate, here are some really basic tuts of Zbrush, really helps and you can watch them all in less than one hour. Hope it helps.

http://www.pixologic.com/zclassroom/registration.php

PS: Forgot to say that...despite those tuts are Zbrush, well, they explain some zbrush tools, but also explain some useful things that are valid for bth zb and mudbox.

Cheers

JHarford

01-07-2008, 05:21 PM

watch some basic vids first kate, some basic training on either program.
I'd go in with your cube base, level 3 and start cutting in, just sculpting that shape. It's a relativly easy one to do. Sculpting has less rules, it's more free.. enjoy it.

RockstarKate

01-07-2008, 05:21 PM

Yup I've watched all of those. Most of them twice. Something about ZBrush just rubs me the wrong way- but I will attempt to beat it into submission one more time before I give up and declare myself a Mudbox user.

***1000th post! It only took me 3.5 years!***

JHarford

01-07-2008, 05:22 PM

come on kate.... post ... I want to wish you happy 1000 :)

[Edit] Happy 1000! :)

About zbrush , it's better right now becuase it's a more complete package, has a lot of other features.. sure the interface might look scary but hey :/... the results don't.
Either way.. carry on with mudbox, it's only interface your learning when you swtich to z. same on the flipside.. so don't worry right now about picking a sculpting app.

disco stew

01-07-2008, 09:12 PM

is zbrushs interface really that bad? its so gotten into my head by now its the other programs that look weird

RockstarKate

01-07-2008, 09:18 PM

I don't think it's the interface as much as the 2.5D, 3D, tool, canvas thing.
If I get it right, you can't zoom in ZBrush, instead you scale the object. You don't rotate abound or pan, you just move the object or rotate it. Even though the end result is pretty much the same thing- it seems very odd to me. Me no likey.

NeXt 0ne

01-07-2008, 09:54 PM

hi kate, this will be an interesting thread as i also dont know how to properly use mudbox or Zbrush. Soo i hope i can learn something from you. I (tried) used mudbox a couple times but almost evertime i got a werid error. Must get to the bottom of that thin.g

Aleks

01-07-2008, 10:49 PM

Ok,here are my two cents...

When it comes to sculpting,I like Mudbox better.You kinda have more control over what you're doing, compared to ZBrush.Plus,this software has a really great "Local subdivision" system.Unlike ZBrush, Mudbox will actually create a new subdivision level ON TOP of every other level you got there.To better explain this,let's say you have a full body model and you want to make more details on the hands.Instead of subdividing the whole thing,you can simply select that area you want to work on and subdivide it.Like I said,in Mudbox you will get a new subdivision level that you can easily delete without affecting the main model.In ZBrush on the other hand, you will actually change the whole topology if you want to make this procedure.In other words,the model will change its topology from level 0 so there is no way going back to the original model.And if you ask me - this is a really bad thing.I actually messed up one of my favorite models this way :dunno:
Another thing I like about Mudbox is its layer system.It's very simple,yet very powerful. Create a new layer,make some details on it and if you don't like it - delete it. In ZBrush the layer system is kinda funky.You can make all those details on a separate layer,but when you try to delete it some details will still remain on the model.It's just stupid. I'm not really sure if Pixologic fixed this problem in 3.1 but it sure was in 3.0.

I do agree that ZBrush is a very powerful program.It's brilliant when it comes to rendering or previewing your model,but it still has a lot of issues.Instability is one of those.You can't even imagine how many times this program crashed on me. I also hate the hot keys feature.I'm not really sure if it's just me,but when I try to change by brushes,their settings change automatically.Let's say I'm using Standard brush with Lazy mouse and with Zintensity set to 20.When I hit 2 on m keyboard to change it to the Move brush,it will actually start using Lazy Mouse and change Zintensity to 20 or near.It's VERY annoying.

Anyway,personally I'm using both these programs.I usually make all the general forms and most of the stuff in Mudobx and then bring it into ZBrush for detailing. I do believe,however,that when Mudbox 2.0 comes out I'll forget about ZBrush completely ;)

As for your model, personally I would detail that cube a little more.I would actually extrude that edge between the "legs" and "head" inwards a little.I find that these things are easier to make in MAX rather than in ZBrush/Mudbox and they usually look more accurate.

JHarford

01-07-2008, 10:54 PM

Almost all the problems with zbrush you listed are fixable, or have an intended use. Which is a problem with the programs learning curve and usability still
The layer thing shouldn't be a problem if you work in the way it was intended to be used, but as with a lot of things in zbrush and other apps, if you stray from that, it's not too friendly, same with smart resym(awesome), and reproject. As for keeping settings across brushes,it is an option to keep settings across brush changes, you can activate this or not use it. Muxboxes local subdivision is a nice, very useful feature.

RockstarKate

01-07-2008, 11:04 PM

Thank you for that great reply, Aleks!
I messed around with it a little and you're right, I was trying to figure out how to make that seam, unsuccessfully. I will add a little more detail to the box model. I may as well make the most of the skill I already have (traditional modeling).
I'm asked myself why I want to learn a sculpting app and here are the answers in order of importance to me:
1. To maintain a current skillset. I don't want to fall behind others in the field.
2. To be able to make cool looking textures and details to models I make in Max.
3. To add a new artistic possibility to my arsenal of tools and take my images to the next level.

Maybe that seems a little backwards, but really I'm still quite inspired by traditional modeling and I really like it. I've sculpted with clay and I think I have a good eye for proportion, but it never caught my interest the way 3DS Max did. I would like to try out some anatomy studies though- seeing so many cool ones on this site and others :)

pables

01-07-2008, 11:09 PM

This post is getting more interesting with each post!

Aleks

01-07-2008, 11:51 PM

The problem about ZBrush is that this software is just packed with all kinds of stuff.You can't honestly expect from all these to be working correctly.Mudbox on the other hand is all about sculpting.And the guys from Skymatter nailed it.All you need is just set some hot keys and you can easily work in the "expert mode" (hides all the panels).In fact,Mudbox was the first software where I used hot keys :eek:

I do see where you are going with this whole "sculpting" thing.Basically I'm doing the opposite at the moment.I went to this "art school for kids" for like eight years, so I have experience in working with real clay.In fact,as far as I can remember I was really good at it.So when I found out about ZBrush I was just crazy about it.I spent more than three years doing some really fun stuff in it until I realized that I actually want to do those things for a living.But sculpting in not enough to get into the game or movie industry,so currently I'm practicing my "traditional modeling" skills in MAX.
Like I said,I'm doing quite the opposite :)

RockstarKate

02-07-2008, 02:00 AM

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c15/rockstarkate/base_model_02.jpg

Too much? Not enough? I'm going to delete the smoothing, I just had to add it to see what the object will look like when smooth.

FYI, I plan to ask a ton of stupid questions in this thread, like this one:
So does it matter that now there are some really small faces in the seam? (For ZBrush or Mudbox)

RockstarKate

02-07-2008, 02:05 AM

I do see where you are going with this whole "sculpting" thing.Basically I'm doing the opposite at the moment.I went to this "art school for kids" for like eight years, so I have experience in working with real clay.In fact,as far as I can remember I was really good at it.So when I found out about ZBrush I was just crazy about it.I spent more than three years doing some really fun stuff in it until I realized that I actually want to do those things for a living.But sculpting in not enough to get into the game or movie industry,so currently I'm practicing my "traditional modeling" skills in MAX.
Like I said,I'm doing quite the opposite :)

Sounds frustrating :) I think it would be stranger to go in that direction than the way I'm going. Really, there aren't jobs for excellent sculptors/detailers? I'm surprised about that. Give it a little time and I bet there will be. In fact I'm guessing no one will be poly modeling characters or organics in a couple of years.

Bigley

02-07-2008, 06:51 AM

In fact I'm guessing no one will be poly modeling characters or organics in a couple of years.

Nooooooo! :ugh: I think I came into the 3d world at the wrong time. I love the traditional modeling method. It is fun and takes skill. I am also interested in learning sculpting, but I think it should just become part of the texturing pipeline. I really don't want it to go to the extreme and it be the only way to model in the future...

anyways... I think I will keep an eye on this thread Kate. I think I could also learn alot from this. :D I would say as for what you have made in 3ds max... it looks fine. You have the basic shape of it covered as well as the crease (which will save you time) and you will just leave the rest up to mudbox.

oh and if you plan on texturing the box in 3ds max when you are done sculpting, don't forget to unwrap it :P

I am just now getting back into 3d. I am going to do a model in max and then take it into Zbrush and do my learning (new DVDs :D :D :D) on that model.

RockstarKate

02-07-2008, 01:07 PM

Jeremiah- in this business you can expect that everything will change constantly so don't get too attached to any one method or piece of software because it might not be relevant tomorrow.

JohnnyRaptor

02-07-2008, 02:42 PM

You could use that, or you could easily use even simpler geometry, a simple box. Id suggest using a simple box so you can try out sculpting on a clean surface.

RockstarKate

02-07-2008, 04:14 PM

I started to try it with a simple box and I couldn't figure out how to get the seam down the middle looking right. Then I tried it with the model I just posted and I couldn't figure out how to get the "mouth" part between the faces. So I went back into Max and added the mouth.
Here's where I am now. I made the female's belly area using the move brush, then I just lightly sketched in where the major features will be with the soft brush. I'm planning on doing this on a bunch of layers because I'm sure I'll eff it up before long :)
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c15/rockstarkate/mud01.jpg

JHarford

02-07-2008, 04:23 PM

Seems like you don't even need mudbox, if your going to do it all in max.
I doubt we will be using zbrush/mudbox for all modeling in the future, it's got it's uses, and with retoplogy, it's basically the same thing is building the low res from scratch in max anyway. It's all about results.

If you want measurable accuracy, do those parts in max, else leave it for your sculpting. The seam and eye could be sculpted fairly easily , just with a few strokes. You have to keep layering it on and build up the forms, flesh them out.

RockstarKate

02-07-2008, 04:51 PM

Hmm, well my intention right now is to continue modeling and rendering in Max and to use a sculpting app as a way to add extras that are hard to do in Max (Like on this model the hair and the little chips in the stone and the texture) It took me literally 10 minutes to make the model in Max but it would take me a lot longer if I wanted to model the hair and the rest of the details. I certainly could do it, but it wouldn't be very easy.
I'm not sure what to do now. Do you think I'm taking the easy way out, or is it reasonable that I would make the easy things in Max and just detail in Mudbox/ZBrush?

brentagain

02-07-2008, 09:02 PM

well...I know less than you Kate about sculpting..lol...but it seems to me the only things you`ll need mudbox for is the eyes-hair and indents for the fingers.
The hair is a definate,you`ll have to do that in mudbox,mabey concentrate on that part for now.
I have a question though...you mentioned that you unwrapped in Max before exporting.Does this mean no matter how complex you go with Mudbox this initial unwrap is the only one you`ll need to texture the final model?

RockstarKate

02-07-2008, 10:34 PM

I have no idea Brent :) I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm determined to figure it out.
I don't make many characters. I'm thinking more about detailing flowers and leaves for close up renders or adding cool texture to a tree trunk. Sure, one could do all those things in Max Photoshop, but sculpting seems like a more intuitive way to do it. I want to figure out the most efficient way to do it that gives the most artistic control.
By the way- I started over with the basic box again and it's looking better. Will post later.

RockstarKate

03-07-2008, 03:21 AM

Ok, like I said I scrapped that one and went back to the original simple box, so this is done all in Mudbox. I'm having fun, some things are starting to make sense.
Unfortunately I've had a few crashes when I tried to move up to level 6. So I'm still on Level 4 here. I wonder what that's about. Any guesses would be good. I'll try updating all my drivers.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c15/rockstarkate/mud02.jpg

Edit: When I subdivide up to level 6, any rotating or panning causes wireframe to show then everything shuts down.

Also, what does the spacebar do? I have hit it accidentally quite a few times.

Aleks

03-07-2008, 09:11 AM

What are your system specs? Also,how dense is the model on level 6? (poly count)
I think in total Mudbox crashed only tree or four times here.Because models got messed up after importing from ZBrush.Try loading one of early saves and subdividing that to level 6 and see if the problem still remains.If not,there is something wrong with your latest save file.

As for the spacebar,it's called "Quick Preview" or something like that.Basically it allows you to rotate/view the model several times quicker.But use it only when the model is really dense,otherwise it will look really bad .It doesn't mess up geometry in any way though.All you need to do to get back to normal view is just click on the model with any brush.
This feature is quite handy actually.If you have like 4 millions of polygons and the frame rate gets to like 10-20 when you rotate the model,just hit the spacebar and FPS will be around 50-60,yet the model will look exactly the same.

RockstarKate

03-07-2008, 12:53 PM

On level 6 it has 1,100,000 polys. As for the laptop I'm using:
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7800 @ 2.60GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 3582MB RAM
Page File: 503MB used, 4961MB available
Card name: NVIDIA Quadro FX 1600M

When it crashed (happened 3 times) I was using a Wacom Bamboo. Researching I found some others having problems with specific tablets- but couldn't find mention of this one. However, I will check for a driver update and then I will test it with the mouse if it still happens.

pables

04-07-2008, 10:53 AM

How is it going?

RockstarKate

04-07-2008, 02:54 PM

It hasn't gone anywhere right this minute- but I will work on it some more today.
Yesterday I set up dual monitors and a new desk chair :) Using a tablet didn't make it practical to work the way I have been for years- with my laptop on my lap and a big book on the armrest of the chair for a mousepad :) This works surprisingly well for me for anything with a mouse. But trying to use the tablet in that way was making my hand fall asleep!
Will post progress (or failure) later!

RockstarKate

04-07-2008, 07:25 PM

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c15/rockstarkate/mud04.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c15/rockstarkate/mud03.jpg

RockstarKate

04-07-2008, 10:20 PM

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c15/rockstarkate/mud05.jpg

RockstarKate

05-07-2008, 09:53 PM

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c15/rockstarkate/mud06.jpg

DaddyDoom

05-07-2008, 10:04 PM

Wow Kate, been watching this thread for some days and this is truly starting to shape up!
Being a ZB total noob myself, I'm pretty digging all those fancy little details you're managing to get.
Great work and good luck!

PS. Love you new avatar :D

RockstarKate

05-07-2008, 10:25 PM

Thanks for the comment, love your cute avatar too :)
This is the Mudbox version. Soon I'm going to call it quits and try it in ZBrush. I've spent probably about 8 hours total mucking about in Mudbox so far. Started over the hair about 8 times...

I'm really digging the layers. Interface is easy, not too much to it really. Simplicity is good. By the way, no crashes since I updated my tablet driver, so that must have been it.

DaddyDoom

05-07-2008, 10:29 PM

I'm actually stuck on ZB2, since the ZB3 version for non Intel Macs is not yet available (and it wont be, so I'll have to try it on my laptop). MudBox does not run on Macs either so... for now I'm totally stuck on ZB2 :(

Makaveli

05-07-2008, 11:11 PM

DD: Why dont you just bootcamp XP on your Mac and run ZB3 on there? I did it and it actually runs pretty smoothly

DaddyDoom

05-07-2008, 11:14 PM

My main use Mac is a Dual G5 and that doesn't allow the bootcamp... I've been thinking in investing in a new Mac in a mid term basis, and maybe then I might just do it. My laptop runs Intel but I'm not using for 3D right now...
Tnx for asking though!

RockstarKate

06-07-2008, 01:39 AM

Ok, the Mudbox portion of this experiment is complete and rendering some frames in mental ray right now. The sculpture is certainly nothing fantastic, but I'm blaming that on my skill and not the software. Anyway, it is pretty easy to figure out how to use Mudbox, but the tools do seem somewhat limited. This tutorial was very helpful for figuring out how to use the displacement map in Max, but it was pretty straight forward overall.

Tutorial (http://www.neilblevins.com/cg_education/mudbox_max/mudbox_max.htm)

RockstarKate

06-07-2008, 02:25 AM

Mudbox Result, rendered in Mental Ray:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c15/rockstarkate/Mud_Turn_Kiss_small.gif

Time spent: approx 8 hours including base model in Max, Muddling about in Mudbox, exporting displacement, setting up render, and rendering.

General thoughts:
Pretty simple. Not many issues. One crash related to tablet driver. Mostly I think I'd just need practice to get used to it. It isn't quite like sculpting. When I sculpt with clay, I pull off chunks of clay and smear it back on. You can't really do anything like that, and I feel like I had to use the "smooth" brush quite a bit more than I'd like. Maybe this has something to do with my skill level, but I had difficulty making a smooth brush stroke. Frustration level low. I found working with Mudbox mostly enjoyable.

Now onto ZBrush. I'll admit, I've messed around with ZBrush several times, but never got anywhere with it. From what I'd read and experienced though, I know it is going to be a lot more complicated than Mudbox. I'm going to try my best not to get fed up and finish the sculpture in ZBrush too, if nothing else, it will be useful to someone else probably.

RockstarKate

06-07-2008, 02:32 AM

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c15/rockstarkate/Kiss.jpg

What do you think is causing the facets to show on the arm and corners?

RockstarKate

06-07-2008, 03:30 AM

First impression of starting in zbrush: I'm shaky on where the tool settings are (must look this up) but the actual sculpting feels much more pleasant, and much smoother, than Mudbox.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c15/rockstarkate/zb01.jpg

pables

06-07-2008, 05:59 PM

Wow Kate, those Mudbox+MR renders look pretty good to me.

RockstarKate

06-07-2008, 08:00 PM

gracias Pables ;)

I like ZBrush. It is very fun. Interface is somewhat convoluted, but seems like it can be transformed into something workable with some effort. I'd probably have to mess with it some more before deciding which tools are relevant to me. Love the viewport shaders, they look really cool (always the first thing I notice when I look at a zbrush model)
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c15/rockstarkate/zb02.jpg

Triclone

06-07-2008, 08:33 PM

Looking Nice kate, and the model evolves nicely.
And the Renders are also looking nice.

Sathe

06-07-2008, 08:46 PM

Crispy4004

06-07-2008, 09:12 PM

I feel like I had to use the "smooth" brush quite a bit more than I'd like.
I know the feeling. Give the clay brush a try in Zbrush. It's good for filling in cavities you've made too deep, but don't want to smooth down.

Anyways here are some Zbrush specific hot keys that might make the transition a little easier.

"Space" - everything you need.
"L" - Lazy mouse, helps draw more accurate curves.
"F2" to swap between different brushes.
"Shift+ctrl" Mesh select. Point and clicking off the mesh will bring everything back.
"Alt + left mouse 1 click off model" - scale to screen size.
"Alt + left mouse, let go of alt" - scale.
"ctrl D" - new sublvl
"D" - move up sublvl
"shift D" - move down sublvl

That's basically all you need to know. Once you get that down, there's very little reason to navigate through the interface. I usually hide it when I sculpt.

Oh yeah, make sure you turn on persp under the draw menu set.

RockstarKate

06-07-2008, 11:14 PM

Oh yeah, make sure you turn on persp under the draw menu set.

Thanks for all the tips, Crispy. This one is something I especially wanted to know!

RockstarKate

07-07-2008, 01:07 PM

Ok, I believe I have made my decision. ZBrush is awesome. I'm still working on the Brancusi sculpture, but I just wanted to say that Crispy gave some excellent advice. As soon as I hid all the menus and just used the shortcuts, everything fell into place. Plus now I look like I know what I'm doing ;)
Anyway, all that frustrated me before about ZBrush seems to be gone with this method and the actual sculpting just feels a lot better than it did in Mudbox. All the brushes seem faster, it is easier to get a smoother stroke, It feels more like sculpting and less like manipulating polygons.
So, thanks Crispy4004. Anyone else have any useful ZBrush shortcuts?

silvaticus

08-07-2008, 08:52 AM

Assigning hotkeys to brushes is also a good idea since you have to switch between them quite often. Here is the way to do it:
http://www.zbrush.info/docs/index.php/Custom_Hotkeys

RockstarKate

13-07-2008, 03:58 AM

I got distracted by playing with sculpting a head out of a sphere.

10 bananas to the first person to guess who I'm using as a reference. (You deserve way more than that if you can figure it out from my sad attempt at likeness)

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c15/rockstarkate/zb_tyra.jpg

thee

13-07-2008, 09:03 AM

mix of angelina jolie and nina simone

DaddyDoom

13-07-2008, 09:12 AM

...Or just invest in a PC Problem solved.

You can pick up a Quad workstation for sub 1k now.

If my living was based on 3D, I'd be working on a PC for sure. But I'm on graphics so...
Let's not start a Mac VS PC argument on Kate's thread ok? :)

Kate, looks like you're getting more and more confident with the thing, keep up!!! :dance::dance::dance:

RockstarKate

13-07-2008, 12:58 PM

Not Angelina Jolie :) I think there should be a ban on any more models of her, and I think she looks like an alien.
No, you need hints, but I will keep trying to get the likeness. Let's see... She's American. She's black. She's on more than one popular current television show.

Yes Daddy (that sounds funny) I am starting to have fun with ZBrush.

Oh and by the way, I have 2 macs and 2 PCs and they are both great and horrible in their own ways. I prefer the PC, only because it runs the programs I want- Max and now ZB 3.

BenniKImmel

14-07-2008, 04:36 AM

No clue who it is, but I have to say I love the work you've done in the time you were playing with ZB and Mudbox. I havent started working in either yet, still nailing down my regular poly modeling in Maya for now. Played a bit with both, but not enough to get my own preference. Good luck!

AutopsySoldier

14-07-2008, 04:52 AM

is it Brandy???? do I get the bananas?!?!?!?

Edit: maybe it's Meagan Good?...dammit...I want to win...

tillaart36

14-07-2008, 10:30 AM

Im going for tyra banks :D

RockstarKate

14-07-2008, 12:51 PM

For Tilaart :)
:dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance:: dance::dance::dance:

(Tyra also looks like an alien if you look at her too long)

RockstarKate

14-07-2008, 12:52 PM

Hmm, it only wanted to give you 9, so here's your bonus::dance:

tillaart36

14-07-2008, 05:40 PM

Oeeeh 10 :dance:'s from Kate...

this makes my day! :D

Anyhow keep it up...i tried zbrush sometimes but i couldnt get it to work to well...maybe i need to be a bit more motivated :D

RockstarKate

16-07-2008, 02:06 AM

Fun. ZBrush is really fun. I lose all track of time...

Kage

16-07-2008, 02:20 AM

I don't tend to come into the Organic section a lot, but the amount you've learnt in such a short time is amazing!

tillaart36

16-07-2008, 10:57 AM

I don't tend to come into the Organic section a lot, but the amount you've learnt in such a short time is amazing!

jup it is...i have used zbrush for very short amounts of time but couldnt get the motivation to try it further...what you done so far is way out of what i could produce then...

With vacations on the way maybe i need to try some more...

BTW i never saw a tutorial which does a real 'noobish' explanation of how to work out a head...you know one? or you just have a good feel of the human body shapes (dont know the term anymore :cry:)

EDIT: Anatomy is the term i guess :)

RockstarKate

16-07-2008, 01:15 PM

Thanks Kage, that's a very nice thing to say :)
Tillaart, I didn't follow any tutorial for the head. Just making it up as I go along. I did watch a video on Youtube of a guy sculpting a head from a sphere and that was pretty helpful to get started.

RockstarKate

16-07-2008, 01:18 PM

Oh yeah, and lots of staring at references :)

RockstarKate

17-07-2008, 02:08 AM

I worked in Max today for the first time in about a week. Hmm, that might be the longest I've gone since I started! Anyway it was very confusing at first. I kept clicking and dragging to try to rotate :) Why can't there be a standard for viewport navigation??? :wall: Is it possible to change the viewport navigation in ZBrush so it will be like it is in Max? Damn, I'm fast in Max though :) Sooo nice and familiar...
More ZBrush fun:

RockstarKate

18-07-2008, 03:49 AM

Started the ear:

RockstarKate

18-07-2008, 01:01 PM

I haven't been able to find a good picture of Tyra Banks in profile. The nose looks very strange from this angle, but when I build it up, it doesn't look right in the other views, so I'm not sure if it is wrong or if I'm just so used to looking at super-average white people's profiles that the flatter african-type nose looks odd. What do you guys think? Anybody happen to have a profile view of Tyra or another black woman with a similar nose?

xxxcubanxxx

18-07-2008, 01:12 PM

Yeah the nose is looking kind of OFF, I got some different pics of her even a 3d model, hope this helps some how.

brentagain

18-07-2008, 01:20 PM

like most celebrities she`s probably very particular as to what images get published.Usually you see very staged 3/4 views.
Your model looks great so far,the nose is a little odd yeah your right and mabey the lips need to be fuller.You picked a great subject though...sh`s a gorgeous woman

RockstarKate

18-07-2008, 01:38 PM

I have that bald one, but I'm pretty sure it's not really right in the forehead area. Looks like they tried to make her giant forehead smaller. That's the best reference of her ear I've found.
Also, like most supermodels, she is very strange looking, in a beautiful way. I mean her features aren't average. She has a very strong jaw for a woman. I want to make it look like her. I'll try messing with the nose later. She has a very asymmetrical mouth too. I guess eventually I will have to break the symmetry.
So, if I wanted to take this head back into Max later and render it in mental ray- how would I do that since I didn't make a base head? I don't need to animate or anything, so topology doesn't really matter.

xxxcubanxxx

18-07-2008, 01:53 PM

Well there is different ways you can go by to do this, your gonna have to export your model in which ever subdivision you want (as an OBJ file) and import it into 3ds max, but your gonna need the UVs for it. I founded this TUTORIAL (http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=59918) some time ago that explains it in detail. By the way Blender is a free program so no need to spend money on that.

RockstarKate

19-07-2008, 02:41 AM

I think I've improved the profile.

xxxcubanxxx

19-07-2008, 06:55 PM

Looking much better, I took the liberty to point out some of the things I saw.

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5294/possiblefixeshh8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

RockstarKate

19-07-2008, 09:47 PM

Thanks for the comments, some more changes:

RockstarKate

20-07-2008, 04:49 AM

Base hair shape. I like all her crazy long hairstyles, but wanted to try something a little more feasible.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c15/rockstarkate/Tyra_Hair_01.gif
Reference:

JHarford

20-07-2008, 07:00 AM

definately heading in the right direction! Good work so far kate, looks like your picking up zbrush fast!

DaddyDoom

20-07-2008, 07:50 AM

Tyra Banks is a tigress! Naomi Campbell is so damn overrated when compared to this bombshell.
Great evolution Kate. Getting better by the minute :D

brentagain

20-07-2008, 09:47 AM

I have a feeling zbrush has a new fan...:)
All is looking good so far except the eyes,mabey angle them downwards on the outside a bit.
Crafty use of a thumbnail also....lol

RockstarKate

20-07-2008, 04:57 PM

I love ZBrush now :) I loved being able to plop a sphere on her head as a subtool and sculpting her hair without worrying about messing up the head. I'm pretty tempted to try the body too now, so let me preempt comments about her shape with her own words (she won an emmy for this!) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ5unYaNd3c
Will check the eyes.

DaddyDoom

20-07-2008, 05:59 PM

Those legs go all the way up to her... neck :D
Good luck on the rest kate!

tillaart36

21-07-2008, 11:08 PM

Hey Kate,

i'm officially jealous on how fast you got into z-brush...

I usually model inorganic and therefore mostly check inorganic and finished sections the most...but whenever i come in this section i'm always amazed what people can do with software as z-brush and i always get the feeling it would be kinda amazing to be able to this kinda stuff myself...

Can you please tell me few things: how many days you needed to get comfortable / familiarized with the interface and tools in zbrush? You didnt follow any tutorials?

Anyways the times I tried zbrush i couldn't make much out of it...couldn't quite grasp the feeling of it (interface and stuff) and the use of tools and when i tried to find tutorials either i found the verrry basic ones which bored me fast (maybe I should have looked at them more closely) and the others were mostly timelapses where you can't follow what the modeller is doing...

Somehow i feel that i'm scared of by zbrush or im not commited enough to engage further in it and find things out on my own but when I see how fast you pick this up it makes me willing to do the same...just can't seem to get there...maybe i just need to spend a week long 8 hours a day of messing around and trial and error or someting...

WOW long post...anyways you did and do a great job at this :D

RockstarKate

22-07-2008, 02:11 AM

Thanks for the compliments, I'm really just having a lot of fun :)
I think the best advice I got was to stop watching videos and just play around and to use the shortcuts instead of the interface.
I watched all the videos and never really got anywhere either- same as you I just felt lost or scared or something. Maybe because I am very comfortable in Max and it is very different.
I'm honestly only using very basic tools for this head so far. I think it is coming out pretty well because I have good figure drawing skills and have sculpted before. I've also made quite a few heads in Max.
I will never do that again. I might make a base head in Max, but probably not. This, my first try with ZBrush, is 10 times better than any of the heads I tried in Max. It was too easy to lose the proportion in the edgeloops if you know what I mean :)
Anyway, yeah just spend a weekend playing with it. It is fun :)