first low poly character with arm problems

[SijbrandIwema]

The thread title says enough. I recently started modelling and i wanted to make some humanoid models. I started with a horse like breed but i'm having some problems with my arms.
I might be because i dont have any reference at all (just a skeleton picture modified in Paint).

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9297/paardarmprobleemqh2.th.jpg (http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=paardarmprobleemqh2.jpg)

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2740/paardarmprobleemedgedxq7.th.jpg (http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=paardarmprobleemedgedxq7.jpg)

As you can see the arm is now going to the front and is quit ugly at the shoulder. Can anyone help me get it to the side and fix the shoulder? (no modelling help, just tips or pictures)

Thanks alot :)

[pychan]

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_03/HorseFight1DM_800x548.jpg

urs too small and rounded? that what i think..hope it help..

[SijbrandIwema]

hmm i think i know what you are saying but i think i need to explain a little more.

I am trying to make it a game character, able to wield weapons and stuff zo de front feet will become hands (i allready started that) and the arms should be a bit more like a human (sticking out the side).
Would it be a good idea to model human arms and try to attach them to my model and then modify them to look more 'horse-like'?
Or does anyone have a better solution?


PS: I find that picture offensive cause i'm against animal cruelty, so would you mind removing that? (or any admin?) thanks

[McKronic]

If its going to be a horse wielding weapons you might want to stick to more human aspects for some of the anatomy because realistically theres no way a horse can effectively swing a sword. I would start with human anatomy and then modify it to fit some of the characteristics of a horse such as the longer neck, inverted knee, tail, hooves, etc..

[SijbrandIwema]

Thanks McKronic.
I allready thought that would be the best way, though i wanted to make them really look like horses so i started of with some horse reference.
I'll try a human reference and make it look like a horse afterwards.

Now for another favor, could anyone help me with finding some simple reference for a human model?
thanks in advance

[McKronic]

No problem, if you just do a google image search for human anatomy, human skeleton, and human muscles it should give you enough reference. You always want to take into account the shape the bones make as well as the muscles.

I also found something that may help, a lot of people model minotaurs and there pretty much upright bulls so the anatomy should be similar to a horse, heres some random images

[SijbrandIwema]

Thanks McKronic for posting those pictures. I really like the second one when it comes to arms/shoulders.
I will try to just that to make my own arm.
I attached some pictures of my new model. I started with the legs and i'm now working on the body en next will be the arms.
Any tips?

EDIT: a small update on the arm and armpit/shoulder

[SijbrandIwema]

just a small update of my model.
number of polygons at this moment: about 1600 without meshsmooth.
What do you guys think of it at this stage?

[BiG ToE-3DT]

First, if this is going to be a low poly character, toss out the mesh smooth. You don't need it. Also, make sure your counting tris, not polys.

Second, the model looks good so far, the porportions look ice, but if you go back to the ref images McKronic posted, you will see that when modeling horse/cow characters, the back legs usually have that animal leg bend at the knee going on. I'm not saying you have to have it in yours, but it might help push the fact that your character is a horse and not just a guy wearing a horse head.

Last, could you show some screen grabs of your model, I would like to see the flow of your mesh.

[SijbrandIwema]

I hope these pics will be what you wanted. I got rid of the meshsmooth so you wont see them on the shots.

I also attached a file to explain a little anatomy (i hope you guys allready knew that). But as you can see, a horse/cow does not have an inverted knee, it is just really high up the leg at the belly. It's a common mistake. A horse/cow walks on its toes and has its heel high of the ground. Many mistake the heel for the knee and say it is inverted (or different from a human). My model has a completly straight legs at this moment but when i get to the part where a skeleton is inserted i will get to the knees and the stand seen on the McKronic showed.

Thanks for replying BiG ToE

[poopipe]

cool , you understand the legs ok then

if you're going to use biped (I know it's frowned upon but I like it) you'll want to use the extra "horse link" bone option in the legs rather than building them "correctly" - if you don't do that you'll have to argue with the IK blending on planted foot keys when you want to pose/animate it.

[SijbrandIwema]

thanks poopipe.

Since this is my first model, i have to learn all stages. Making a texture for it will be the next thing when i got the hands complete and the mesh is all finished. After that i need to figure out how to work out the animation. In the max tutorials there is a bit about animation with foot keys and i hoped i could use those for my model.

EDIT: I have just decided I will not be making it a low poly game character. I will try to make it 'good enough' (in my opinion) to make an animation with it.
This decision was made after reading a post somewhere on this forum (cant remember the exact thread) but it stated someone willing to learn all to make a game. The list was way to long for me to accomplish as a hobby modeller. Even making a small movie/animation will be an enormous task but that would a good goal. It would take me through alot of things in the modelling business (still live modelling, character modelling, texturing, animation and more).
So this character will no longer be low poly (though i'm not going to 30,000 poly's orso, i'll start with 10,000 as a target).
I have done some shoulder, back and neck work and am now working on hands and fingers. When those are done, i'll update with some pics again.