AVATAR - 2D - mr_carl - "goat of the earth"

[mr_carl]

Hi everyone, I know I´m a bit late but I´m a bit of a lurker here at Threedy forums and it was quite some time I was here actually.

Anyway, for a couple of days ago I surfed in here to see what was going on and I saw this challenge,( and a challenge is always interesting right :roll: ), so I had to check it out.
When I looked around here my mother called and just wanted to have a little chat and asked me if I knew in what Chinese year I was born, of course I had no clue and had to check it out. It turned out that I was born in the year of the Goat and the sign of earth or dirt (don't know the right word), and as I was looking around here I kind of thought that an avatar of the earth in the shape of a goat would be cool so I started to work out an idea.

So that's the background of my idea and here is the idea.

As I mentioned my avatar is of the earth and since I´m born in the year of the goat it will have some influences from that, like the horns and goat-beard but in stone or dirt.
The character is also influenced by Chinese and Japanese midevil warriors and futuristic robots like gundam and there will of course be a dragon and the environment will be something like a futuristic city with neon signs and stuff.

Anyway I hope you will like this as much as me, and here is a first draft layout of the scene.

[mr_carl]

worked some on the character.
Will maby change the name of this image to something else.

Second image is 50% size of full image.

[outlander]

did you use cinema 4d for that effect of "destruction" of the dragon/snake? (maybe explosion fx?)

[mr_carl]

It´s actually made in Modo.

It´s really simple effect to create, first make a sphere and subdivide it a few times make random selections and delete or invert and delete the rest. When you have the faces you want make them thicker with an "Extrude" or like in Modo "Thicken". After that I just used vertex jitter.
To get the tail of the dragon I did the same with a part of the tail and I used some parts of the sphere.

I hope that helps.

[POSEIdOON]

Like it:dance:
Really interesting concept, i like chinese mythology.

Your going to use this 3d for the foundation of your drawing,
or it will be a totally 3d work?

Hope to see more:)

[mr_carl]

The 3D will be for the foundation, and I will probably use the ambient occlution pass and reflection pass.

More will come soon.

[mr_carl]

So worked a bit more with the background, but most work is done with main character. Placed some basic shaders which makes it look like a little of a child's painting, but I will change that :lame:

Second image is character in 100%crop, if I don´t change the size,

[outlander]

thanks for the answer, it's always a good thing to share knowledge. one more thing to say: excellent work until now, the composition is very dynamic and powerful

[POSEIdOON]

Really good work
But what i'm really curious is to see how this will look in drawing...

Really good i think:)

[mr_carl]

Thanks allot guys.

The main problem I have now is to make the environment to look more alive, there has to be so much detales to make a believable feeling.

Anyways, continuing with more lightning and basic shading of the character and then I´m off to Photoshop for the rest of the time I think.

[CLP]

hi there, thanks for the comment on mine, i dont think you'd need to alter your colour palette really because I think the overall feel of your image will be very different from mine. definitely gonna be interesting to see what it looks like painted.:cool:

[mr_carl]

Thanks CLP,

Yea you are right we have kind of different feels to our images and as I mentioned before just some more 3Ding now and then photoshop all the way.

[decosouza]

Amazing! Lovely concept! I really want to see the 2D image. I liiked the pespective angle. No critiques for now. All the best mate!

[mr_carl]

thanks for very nice comment decosouza.

So here is last update for tonight.
Started to light the image and ad some more detales. I hope I will finish this stage tomorrow so I can continue to 2D face.

[ez5k]

I like idea combination dragon and warrior with present day.
Neon light of town can make nice scale )

[Jibberwocky]

This is really starting to kick ass. You're putting a lot of work into the 3d for just a foundation. It's gonna be epic, I can tell.

[-IdanI-]

looking good man keep it up

[mr_carl]

Thanks mates,

@ Jibberwocky - It gets a bit easier to do the 2D part with much information in the scene. I have started the 2D face now but I wanted to do more 3D but no time.

Anyway update to come soon.

[mr_carl]

Started to painting the warrior, still looks a bit cluttered and so but I think I have most of the colours down at the moment, now it´s just a lot of work to make it look good.

[Jibberwocky]

I like how he's literally coming from the earth. Didn't notice it before in the 3d base.

[mr_carl]

It´s there just a little bit hidden behind stones in the air :)

[mr_carl]

continued with some stuff.

Tried some new shoulder-pads, the right one looks ok but the left one looks like s**t, also continued with the stony leg, I´m pretty satisfied but there is still very much left to do there, the left leg on the outer hand read the comment on the left shoulder.

[CLP]

looking good man, just wondering how long do you take to do a finished piece? Also, are u gunna paint the stone texture on the leg or use some photo reference? I find painting morphing materials, especially stone, really hard.

[Mr.fE]

I like all the shattering going on! gives a huge sense of happening and movement!

Can't wait for some photoshop wips!

AVATAR (http://forums.3dtotal.com/showthread.php?t=64917)

[mr_carl]

Thanks for the comments mates,

@ CLP - I usually never finish my pieces if I´m not on a deadline like in a challenge, I get bored to quick so if I wont finish within a week or two I move on to the next one.
I mostly do 3D modelling but I wanted to try something else this time, and off course to get better at painting.
As for the stone, I´m going to use textures mixed with painting and I agree with you It´s damn hard to make it look the stone to look good/"real".

[Daniela Blanco]

Your entry is awesome............ it makes both the 3D and 2D contestants shake a little :]
The feeling of movement you put in your image is the strong point for me......keep it up

[mr_carl]

Thanks for the very nice words.
Update coming soon, I´m a bit stuck with the stony leg but I´ll solve it :)

[mr_carl]

So just had to start blocking out the city to get going with the painting, extremely the first state and no detale just some thoughts of signs and colour blocking.

[mr_carl]

Then I just had to see it with the dragon and warrior in place, also just blocking but a good way to see what's going on and how much I have to do left.

[mr_carl]

And finally the warrior a little bigger.
The stone is starting to look better think I will leave it now and come back to it later with textures and some more painting, and of course ther will be alot of compo with the rest of the image.

[mr_carl]

So continuing with the background today, haven´t had allot of time so only had time to start with the windows.

[mr_carl]

Have taken a day to rest my head from painting and be able to see the project with new eyes I hoped and I realised that I don´t really like the background, so I have done some tests with a new one and this is it.
Just the background building blocks, a bit more futuristic but with lightning and in the wrong place, but I will only put main light in 3D and paint the rest.
So what do you think, should I go with this, stay with the old or make a new one?

[mr_carl]

Made some changes and started to paint the city again, I think I will go with this one, mostly because time is running out and I think this will look more SciFi and cool (I hope).

[CLP]

i like this scifi backdrop better ;]

could take a while to paint though, looks like a lotta detail to go into it, maybe concentrate on the most important aspects when painting? and sometimes unfinished parts can look cool if u jus block em in and add some appropriate highlighting.

should put in ur avatar before continuing to save time and not paint too far in areas covered by the dragon? dunno if thats a great way of doing things but i like to do that cos im lazy

wow didnt think i'd say so much, anyway good luck

[mr_carl]

Thanks CLP,
I plan to block out most of the city and then just as you said place my avatar so I save some time and don't spend to much time on this. Then maby later I will make it an image of itself. That´s my goal that every part should be able to be shown by them selves and still be looking good.

[corny47]

looks like you've got alot a work ahead a you. but i'm looking forward to see how this one turns out. maybe u answered this already but what program did u use for this part.

[mr_carl]

As you said a lot of work and I hope for an update later today.
For the 3D I use Modo www.luxology.com and the 2D is Photoshop.
Thanks for comment.

[decosouza]

Hey mate. Good jop here! Time is almost over... we need to go fast!

[mr_carl]

yes yes, we need to go fast but I´m stuck in my mind at the Dominance War VI thingy so I have to do something about that, but update coming soon I promise.

[Jibberwocky]

Looking forward to that next update, man. Don't dwell too much on unfinished business, though. Dangerous this late in the game. Actually, I could take some of my own advice in that department... Crap, never mind.

[mr_carl]

thanks for the verry good advice Jibberwocky. I think I have a pretty good idea for the Dominance war mini challenge so there will be some work on that today and maby tomorrow.
It´s my girlfriends birthday today so have spent allot of time with here offcourse and that means there will be some visitors this weekend and so, so I better start working fast to get done.
Anyway it´s always good to get some feedback so thanks again.

[miycko]

There are so many details going into this. It's gonna look seriously good when it's finished. Oh and I know you said you didn't like your first general for Dominance War but i did, so i hope you'll get to finish him some time.

[POSEIdOON]

Yeah, i also agree, the new background is better:)

can't wait to see the dragon:D

[mr_carl]

miycko - Thanks, my biggest problem will be all the detale I thing, very time consuming but I hope I will make it in time, and thanks about the war general, the reason I didn't like it was because it looks more lie a regular space marine soldier or something like that and I wanted something well strange :)

POSEIdOON - thanks mate and youre prayer is heard I will start with the dragon asap.

So Dominance war mini challenge is done and I feels good to be done, I learned some things and I think I got a little quicker which is good when time is short (like in this one).
So here is my plan for the rest of the challenge if there isn't something coming up which it always is.

may 2 - dragon contoures and bace colours
may 3 - finish dragon
may 4 - goat samurai warrior continues
may 5 - warrior finished
may 6 - city continues
may 7 - finish city
may 8 - fixing stuff up and done

That´s the plan I just hope I can hold it.

[elenadintroia]

you can do it, keep working and you'll finish in time, you still got this week.

It's really interesting your composition

[Jibberwocky]

Seriously looking forward to this. Good luck.

[mr_carl]

Thanks elenadintroia & Jibberwocky, as I said there will come up something to make my time disappear and offcourse it did, it´s not a bad thing because I got a job (or rather maby got a job, have to see how it works first), but anyway this means I will have allot less time on my hands, and it probably also means no or very little sleep on Saturday :)

Anyway first update on dragon, just a little light placement and surface test.
Pretty happy with the result so now lets go to colours :)

[Jibberwocky]

Nice, it already has some serious pop. The beak thing looks a bit off though. Kind of looks like a human nose. Oh, and congrats on the possible job!

[Husam]

The beak thing looks a bit off though. Kind of looks like a human nose.

Quoted for agreement. But other than that the dragon looks seriously awesome.
I'm keeping an eye on this thread. Can't wait to see the final result :)

[mr_carl]

Thanks Jibberwocky & Husam, I agree about the beak, it looks a little weird so working on that.

Time for the last update for today.
As mentioned changed the beak some and started to work on the detales. Some of the texture detales is´t showing because of the jpg compression but I will post an 100% cropped image later when I have the time.
Still allot of work to do, it will be a long day tomorrow if I´m going to able to finish the dragon.

[elenadintroia]

the dragon looks really great, I like yhe way it's painted especially the head.

you can do it!

[mr_carl]

thanks again elenadintroia, I hope I can do it but there is still very much left to do.

Time for an update, a bit more done It think I can finish the most of the dragon today, so enjoy and wait for the next update :)

[Jibberwocky]

Looks awesome. I'm loving the colors and the beak looks much better. Can't wait to see the Samurai.

[mr_carl]

Hey thanks Jibberwocky, Samurai will begin tomorrow or Thursday.

Last update for today,
Finished the top part of the dragon, added some textures from cgtextures.com a really great site with allot of textures, offcourse I fixed the textures some.
Still allot to do but I´m getting there and as mentioned I hope I will start with samurai tomorrow.
Allso a 50% crop of the image, 100% was a bit to large.

Enjoy.

[Jibberwocky]

Amazing. I like how the tongue and seams between scales looks like molten rock.

[iatriki]

I like your approach of painting over the 3d sketch. It looks like it will be a great piece when finished. there are still a few days left! come on! HURRY! HURRY! :)

[mr_carl]

So time for an update, and thanks for comments.

Started with the warrior again, Added some things and removed a leg but there will be another (leg that is)
Anyway still lots of stuff to do better hurry.

[mr_carl]

One more update for today and then I´m off to bed.

Continuing on the Warrior, still some things left to do, tomorrow I hope I will finish warrior and maby start on the city, I hope.

[POSEIdOON]

I love your avatar but specially the Dragon:)
really good details.

:D

[elenadintroia]

keep working! you are progressing very well. Looks great!

[mr_carl]

POSEIdOON - I here you, there is something of with the "helmet" of with the Avatar that makes it look werd, I will see what I can do about it, but first I have to finish the most of everything :)

elenadintroia - Thanks allot.

So time to go to work with this again, I have had to wright a game review today so much time went to that but now I have to work, work, work to finish in time.

[POSEIdOON]

I have you question for you...

You're showing the dragon and the avatar separated, do you work
them separated or is just here to show us?

Thanks:)

[mr_carl]

POSEIdOON - At the moment I´m working on them separated. The final image is 9000x6000 pixels so it gets a bit heavy to work with everything at the same time. It will all come together tomorrow I hope :smug:

Just a little update today, I have had to do some other things so not much done with this, but now it´s time for some sleep then work till finished :!!!:

[mr_carl]

Almost done with warrior now, just some small things left to fix, and then city.

[trashmito]

I hope you can finish your work in time mr_carl!
Good luck to you! :)

[Daniela Blanco]

I reaaly hope you can finish it........it's getting so great.....and could be an outstanding work!!


Keep up! and Good luck!

[mr_carl]

trashmito - thanks, Im working my a** off do get it done in time :)

Daniela - Thanks very much, I really hope so to.


Time for an update again.
The Warrior and Dragon together again :), added some blur to simulate motion of the transformation of the dragon.
Anyway I´m done with this for now, I have to start working on the background, at least one more update today I hope.

[mr_carl]

Last update for tonight.
Started on the city background. There is still so much left to do, I will see what I can do in the time.

[spartan118]

Hi mr_carl, talk about last minute rushes, i hope you can finish in time. I'm just rushing mine aswell but i think we can make it.

[Jibberwocky]

Looks completely badass so far. The posing is awesome and I love the color choices. Almost there, man! Keep it up!

[mr_carl]

spartan118 - keep it up man, hope you finish in time and thanks for comment :)

Hey Jibber, Thanks alot :kiss: :haha:

Update time.
Shanged the background again, wasn't really happy with the last one but now I have to go with this one, no time for changes :eek: and I´m pretty happy with this one and I have some Ideas that I hope will make it look fabulous or something :)

[mr_carl]

Oo0ps forgot the image :wall:

[miycko]

You seem to be really picky about your backgrounds mr_carl. But i must say i quite like the latest one.

[spartan118]

Ya the new background looks a lot better, but you better put the peddle to the floor.

[mr_carl]

miycko - Yea offcourse I´m picky about the background, it is what brings the eye to the foreground and main objects if you know what I mean :)
And thanks for the comment.

spartan118 - Thanks, peddle is pushed.

So I think I´m about done with the big stuff in the background now, it becam some kind of a little inferno and sci-fi feel to it I hope.
Doing to fiddle a bit more, have about 2 more hours before I´m really in a hurry :cool:

I had to make the ship just a bit smaller to still have the feel of the dragon being quite big and that thing on the right just did´t do it for me so now it´s bright :)
enjoy.

[Jibberwocky]

Yeah, I like this new background. Makes the figures pop so much more. Those lite fixtures could use a little grime, though. And the one on the far right looks like it's lighting is backwards considering the slope it's on. Not a big problem at all though, so don't let me distract you or anything. Epic stuff.

[mr_carl]

Thanks jibber, I´m working on it, and good point about light and grime, all comming in next update (I hope :))

[decosouza]

The last background is the best of all. Looking far to see your final image mate!!

[mr_carl]

thanks decosouza I like it the best to.

So here is the final image, no more time for fixing and trixing.
Added some layers with noise and motion blur etc.
Compression makes the colours a bit off. wip sheet coming up later after I have uploaded it to the final site, and offcourse a link to full res image, but all that later, now for the image.

[mr_carl]

So here is the wip collage, didn´t turn out as I had planed, got a little stressed when time almost had run out.

[POSEIdOON]

It seems like you had the same problem as me,
not enough time:)

But it still looks great:D
Love your art

[Jibberwocky]

I actually rather like the half-rendered background. It's reminiscent of a camera's focus, but looks stylized too. Bravo, good sir!

[mr_carl]

Thanks everyone for all the comments and good luck to everyone that finished in time.
High res image coming soon, a bit of trouble with compression at that size :)

[decosouza]

I"m glad you made it in time mate...and with a beautiful final image. The dragon looks amazing. Congratulations and good luck!

[xeni]

Thanks for the comment, good luck, you work is kool, like it.

many thanks and again good luck.
tc



SHKELZEN KERAJA
http://forums.3dtotal.com/showthread.php?p=696536#post696536

[washka]

You finished it in time but i'm complaining...
I said that because your 3D buildings work on the background really rocks too.
I said "too" because your character and the dragon are amazing, I'm a fan of the dynamic side of your image. There is some big action there, we can feel it easily because of your representation skills.
I like to mix technique, I got a "matte painting" technique I can use to mix 2D & 3D image, I've used it before on a architecture work.
If you agree I can use it on your work, it won't take me a lot of time, and i'm sure there will be a good result. I don't ask anything for that, it's just mixing. If you don't want to, I'll understand, because it's your painting. Seeya.

And good luck for the judging!

[mr_carl]

Thanks for the comments guys.

washka - I understand you're complaint and I would have liked to make the city background but there just wasn't enough time.
I would really much like to see what you could do with the image so you have my permission to do as you like with it, if you want a higher resolution and layered image just let me know, and thanks for the nice comment.

[washka]

No it's ok, I'll work on your med def posted images, it's easier for me :) but thanks. Next time I'll explain the technique.

[mr_carl]

Nice, looking foreword to the result.

[Husam]

Love the composition and the sketchy look of it. Good Luck!

[mr_carl]

Thanks Husam

[washka]

So this technique is some sort of photoshop matte painting.
Basically you start with a 3d render (or a 2D painting), then you use 2D painting
(or texture) with incrustation mode over it with somes layer adjustements.
Sometimes I also add some low opacity normal layer of the texture, and a low
opacity lightning layer.


I used 4 images from mr_carl as layers, they all got the same size that helped me a lot:
*A*: The 3D image with a complete modeling on the dragon and character, and with colors.
*B*: The 2D painting with only the dragon and the character on a white background I erased.
*C*: The cold colors 3D second background (the ones with skyscrapper boxes and reflexion).
*D*: The final 2D painting with the filtering.

The first step: The foreground:

-1: The *A* layer on 100% normal, it's my 3D base layer, the main one.
-2: It's just the dragon's horn part from the *B* layer (30% normal), it's just because
the 3d layer had no horn, this layer is just detail.
-3: Again the horn part with a piece of the dragon's stomach, and a piece of the dragon's mouth
from *B*. It's on 74% product. It gives some consistance to the horn, and shadows on the stomach
and mouth. This layer is just detail.
-4: The *B* layer on 60% incrustation, this layer is important, you mix the 2D with the 3D here.
I added a mask to lower a little bit the opacity of some 2D zones.
-5: The *B* layer on 20% crude light just on the dragon part, that's how I get back the volumes
from the 2D painting *B* layer.
-6: The *B* layer on 50% tint, that's how I get back some colors from the 2D painting *B* layer,
but it's not really effective here, this layer is just detail.

*E*: The collapsed image result from the first step, but just the dragon and the character, I erased the
background.


The second step: The background:

-2: The *C* background 3D layer on 100% normal, it's my 3D background base layer.
-4: The *D* painting on 30% product, it gives some consistance for the next layer.
-5: The *D* painting on 60% incrustation, an important layer, I start to mix the 2D painting with
the 3D here.
-6: The *C* 3D background on crude light 60%, it's because I want to keep the 3D lightning over the
painting. The added mask go with the patch, I'll explain about it later.
-7: The *D* painting layer on normal 85% with a mask. this mask allow me to control the opacity
of the 2D painting parts I want to merge on the 3D. It's an important layer. (You can also switch this
layer with 6, you get a better 3D background, or duplicate it to sandwitch the 6 crude light layer with
two mid opacity normal layer)
-8: It's a black shadow product on 45% of the character and the dragon.
I used *E* (the first step image result), reducing luminosity twice to get it black, and a vertical
scale transformation. Finally I used a mask to project the shadow on the ground only.
-9: The *D* final painting on 100% normal, but just the character and the dragon, not the background part,
the added mask is because I erased a little bit the rising and flying stone from this layer. This is my base
layer for the foreground integration.
-10: The *E* result layer on 65% normal, I used a mask on the stone again. This is the link between first
and second step.
-11: A free 100% normal layer with some black and white low opacity touch for lightning details on the dragon,
not really important.
-12: The *E* result layer on crude light 25%, but just the dragon's head using a gradient mask, this layer
gives volume and add details on the dragon's head, because this last one is more on the foreground than the
character, I think so...
-3: It's a low luminosity piece of *D* on normal 75%, it's some sort of hiding patch on the
boxes near the dragon's head, it's because those boxes mess with the dragon's head's contour.
-1: The left frame is from a scaled piece of the left border, it's a copy from all the collapsed layers of
the second step. Now the image is larger (maybe too much) but I think I got a better diagonal dynamic with
the dragon. The right frame piece is for balance, this layer is just composition details. (100% normal)

I finished collapsing the whole image, duplicating it for a 30 or 40% superposition layer (don't remember),
collapse, reducing the saturation, some details correction, and playing with the level correction because I
think it was too dark, that's all.

I know maybe it seems complicated but it's mostfully playing with normal, incrustation and crude light layers mode.
If you've got any questions do not hesitate, I've got my internet connection back.
I've lost somes interesting details of the 2D painting during the process, there are others corrections to add
to the image, the mixing technique is not perfect... What do you think about it?

[mr_carl]

Hi washka and sorry for the late reply but that Dominance war is taking up alot of time.
Anyway, I have read through what you have done a coupple of times and you´re final image does bring a bit more the the hole, it has more depth and the lightnign looks really good, but just as you said some of the detales from my final image have been destroid, but thats easy to fix i think.
I actually dont have so manny questions be cause you explaind really good how you did what you did. I will have to read it through some more times and try it out with my beuty shot in DWIV whan the time comes.
Thanks for the effort.

[Sebiomegas]

Man, that style is so inspiring. Painting over 3D renders is so fun.

[mr_carl]

Thanks man, it really is fun to paint over a 3D render, and combine them in new ways and getting results you never would imagine.

Love you're DWIV bots BTW.

[CHAO5]

nice to see the work process... to go from strength to strength :!!!: :!!!: :!!!:

[mr_carl]

Thanks mate.