View Full Version : DW4-3d-Vinsanity - Untitled
16-03-2009, 07:44 AM
Alright; here we go! Dominance War IV!
Well, for my first post; some concepts! I worked on various ideas in between the mini comp and this, and found something I liked:
So I've been refining that idea:
And while I'm not 100% in love with it (I really don't like the legs; looks TOO Samurai-esque, y'know?), I'm definitely happy enough to keep moving in this direction. It's still early so whatever; I'm turning in for the night. I'll continue on my concept later...
18-03-2009, 05:36 AM
Well, I'm not entirely happy with where my character is going, so I decided to start exploring doing additional sketches. After talking with a buddy whose entering D-War on GameArtisans.org, I've discovered something really cool. A sketching program called Alchemy that's perfect to get the creative juices flowing. I've ended up with a new idea that I may push further, and I'm getting back to sketching some new ideas.
Unfortunately, photobucket is down for maintenance, so I'll put stuff up later. Still, if anyone's reading this, you may want to check this program out.
19-03-2009, 07:52 PM
These are some things I got while screwing around in Alchemy. I need to keep playing around a bit...
20-03-2009, 01:50 AM
Dude the blue guy looks cool. nice armor. :D
20-03-2009, 02:17 AM
Basically got it! In terms of character design; this guy has everything I'm happy with. The armor has the 3DT logo carved in on the front, as the first two concepts. He has elaborate tribal and asian influences in the carvings throughout his armor. He has an overall build not unlike a Gears of War cog or StarCraft Terran marine mixed with a Ninja Gaiden-esque character. His pants/boots look good (lack detail, but I'll have fun with that when sculpting). The swords look great; I'm ready to move onto model sheets, barring any terrible things that may be pointed out to me in the future:)
20-03-2009, 02:25 AM
nice hand swords. :D
20-03-2009, 02:26 AM
I really like the intial concept you threw up. Kinda looked like a cross between a medieval warrior and a parkour runner. I know it's still early, but the boots in your last concept look like they'd be too big, the smaller feet in your original design fit nicely.
20-03-2009, 04:21 AM
PuckDucker: I had a friend make that same comment, about the boots versus the original guy's shoes. However, thank you for mentioning Parkour runner -- I'll sketch up a variant with shoes again now that I have something to reference:)
M_Ced: thx man!
Btw; I know you said you liked the Blue color scheme (3DTotal colors!), but I wanna hear the preferences from anybody checking in. I'm mostly happy with the design, though I don't know what colors I wanna go with yet. Even though it's early.
EDIT: New concept, back with the parkour style footwear (though the pants are too baggy now)
tweaked it so the pants are no longer silly looking, but no coloring. I use a lot of white on my various layers, and it's getting annoying to color.
versus the current favorite:
20-03-2009, 06:01 AM
Also deciding to put up my model sheet for this guy's head. Which was easy cuz I just grabbed something I had previously worked with:
This is just a trace-over job of digital photos taken of myself for a character modeling class from back when I still in the Art Institute of Pittsburgh. Except I gave myself a slightly different, Nathan Drake-esque haircut.
However, this was a little weird to me. Plus, after seeing all the art the CGLand guys did for the mini comp, and also being an anime fan myself, I decided to have some fun:
Not yet sure which one I'll go with, or even if I've settled with the eyes for the second design, but it's something to put up, so here it goes.
20-03-2009, 06:05 AM
Oh, I guess I should pick a magic element also, huh? guess it depends on the color I choose; if the red looks better, than he'll wield flame magic. Whereas if the blue looks better, I guess I'll add some frost elements to this guy's swords and details...
20-03-2009, 06:40 AM
I liked the Samurai-esqe look of the first concept. Especially the tatoos. Still the new one's cool too. The blue armor's good it seems fitting for some reason. As for the shoes, they seem like they'd weigh him down.
20-03-2009, 06:50 AM
I'm with PuckDucker I'm liking the parkour style shoes.
You don't seem to have really decided what his role is yet, so I say to you, here's something to think about. Given the shoes, and most of the look he's got going now, perhaps with a little streamlining [more compact armor/swords], he could become a pretty nimble looking assassin/nimble type character. Sorta mixing free-running with combat, and quickly darting around a battlefield cutting down everything in reach, could make for a pretty cool fighter.
I really like the swords as you have them now, if you did decide to make them more compact it'd just be a matter of shrinking the guard in closer to the hand, and shortening the blade a bit.
As far as color choices go, I think either could work, and I wouldn't limit myself to thinking that red has to be fire, and blue should be ice. While that's the logical choice, and for ice it should probably blue, you could certainly have blue flames if you wanted. Maybe blue with the gold pants?
For the face. I think it depends a lot on whether you go full on stylized with the whole character or if you keep it pretty realistic.
21-03-2009, 11:43 PM
This is my final -- FINAL concept. The design was mostly figured out from the last one I did, but the boots were deemed too clunky and I hadn't yet figured out which color scheme to go with. Well, take most of that design and than look at this:
The colors -- from the 3DT team logo -- informed the decision to go with an ice elemental norm. I know I shouldn't limit myself to blue=ice/red=fire, as there are very, VERY creative people entering this comp, but I don't have a chance a winning, so technical practice trumps creativity this year. The pants are now a finished design, as are the boots -- not clunky anymore! The sword also now has a clear ice element to it, and the skin too has a frosty look in some areas. I'm very happy with this design now -- thanks to PuckDucker, Miyko and Warlock for their input. I'll probably still tweak this guy based on what you guys said (the gold pants/blue armor color that Warlock said, for example). I just couldn't go with the parkour-style shoes; they looked too wussy imo. Still thanks for the critiques and comments.
I have to do some model sheets now!
EDIT: Warlock is the man; made me think about a few things. I'm going to figure out this guy's deal to make sure my decisions are all informed by a consistent role/history. I'm going to take into account that comment about the swords too, to tighten their design up. Also. I'm shootin for a realistic look; I probably won't hit it, but I gotta raise the bar so that even a miss will still shoot high. I'm gunning to hit this quality:
Capcom's next gen characters, like Nero from DMC4 and Wayne from Lost Planet, were basically PS2 characters (very clean PS2 characters) with all the next-gen shader effects we westerners use to fake detail! At least, until RE5, when they decided to give Epic a run for their money in terms of sculpting and texturing. Oh well, a step at a time:)
23-03-2009, 08:02 AM
Got the model sheet done! Or rather, done enough -- I still have some tweaks to make, which I hope don't become entirely redrawing things (like his side view). Also, he's uncoloured. Still, I'm where I wanted to be by the end of this weekend:)
I tried to really learn from the critiques and criticisms thus far; notably PuckDucker's comment about this guy looking almost like a cross between a parkour runner and a medieval warrior. Tried to keep that in mind as I polished up the design. The color definitely came out to blue, as people were feeling it and it is 3DTotal's team color this year:) Miycko liked the tats, and so do I, though they're not on the model sheet cuz I skip a few corners -- they'll definitely be on there in the final. I'm thinking of doing them with a glow map too and seeing how it looks, or with some effect going on (maybe frost). And I tried to shorten up the swords and downsize the hilt like Warlord said to make the blades slightly less unwieldy, though they still retain the basic design I've been working with. I like the tilted handle -- it seems to encourage stabbing maneuvers.
You guys have really helped tighten up my design and get me focused. Thanks for the input!
23-03-2009, 08:24 AM
very nice concepts. Especially the wolve's on the shoulder pads, kinda look like they're spitting out his arms though, but i'm sure you'll refine that on the model.
23-03-2009, 06:51 PM
Yeah, looking good, I think you managed to clean up and refine this really well.
Looks like you're back on the parkour style shoes? Don't worry about the shoes looking a little silly, samurai ran around in a "shoe" very similar, design wise anyway, and you certainly wouldn't want to call them wussy.
I like how you've worked the wolf element in as an accent in places, that's a nice touch for the ice/cold theme.
As for the glowing tattoos, they can be tricky to get to look good, but by all means give it a play.
25-03-2009, 04:32 AM
Cleanup my model sheet a bit for the 3DTotal Army Thread, so I figure I should put up the polished one here:
Going to start modeling -- and hopefully knock out the whole low poly mesh -- over the weekend. I wanna get the 3dsMax stuff done quickly and spend the most time unwrapping, sculpting and texturing. That's how most of next month will be spent for me, I think.
Now onto the WIP threads to check out other people's awesome stuff!
EDIT: As for the glowing tats, I think I found a nice reference on accident. Finally got around to finishing watching the Clone Wars movie, and I snapped a shot of Ziro the Hutt:
If I can't make them look like that, but frostier, I'll keep 'em straight black, Warlock.
EDIT: (talking to myself) Duh. Vince, the glowing tats thing? You totally got the idea from Baldur in Too Human. Look at at that for reference.
25-03-2009, 04:45 AM
Looking good so far, Liked where u were going with the
first concept. I'd gear him up a bit more (kinda how the bad guys
were in chronicles of riddick).. imo.
25-03-2009, 07:39 AM
i still i have'nt gotten down to watching clone wars.:ugh:
25-03-2009, 03:13 PM
nice model sheet
25-03-2009, 03:54 PM
love the style, cant wait to see more progress :D
25-03-2009, 04:23 PM
just wanted to say Good to see you here with Threedy, instead of jumping ship and heading over to other forums like other people that you went to school with that think they are better than they really are. :evil:
25-03-2009, 06:40 PM
You have a very strong style in drawing, i like it really! The idea is nice, because i didn't see too much animal in the war! But i like them really ;) The character you have is also a wolf like guy, so it fits!
And this time, i noticed the logo on the chest, and its a nice idea! Cool colors, a real patriot ;)
30-03-2009, 03:51 AM
Ugh. I felt so lazy having done no modeling till yesterday. While I hoped to have finished the whole low res model by tonight, this is as far as I've gotten.
Most of the geometry in the body is pretty simple and therefore pretty clean. I don't really see the need to model much of anything else there (besides obviously the foot; there's just a block there. I just threw on a quick symmetry modifier and then a meshsmooth before rendering, so it turned the block into that hacky sacky thing) since I'm just going to a.) cover it in armour, and b.) sculpt it all later anyway, so I'm concentrating right now on the armor. Turns out I didn't really think this through when I drew, and now have to make up some form. Not the cleanest geometry I've ever done, but it should do (*knocks on wood). My poly count is only between 2000 and 3000 so far, so I'm not even paying much attention to it yet.
Everyone, thanks for the kind words and critiques!
Polysmooth: I don't wanna add anymore armour to the design per se, as I'm now going for a blend between a warrior and a parkour runner (got the idea from fellow 3DT forum members!), so I gotta keep him lightweight. However, thanks for mentioning the Chronicles of Riddick soldiers; I hadn't yet given much thought as to how I was going to sculpt the armour in mudbox, but thanks to some reference I grabbed from that film, I now have an idea of where I need to go. Thanks for putting the idea in my head!
Miycko: tsk, tsk, tsk:) Aw, who am I kidding, I just saw the thing:D Very cool movie, and an awesome show as well. Definitely check it out when you can!
M_Cederstorm: Thank you:)
Vox360: Thanks! I too can't wait to see more of my progress, which I why I really need to get back to Max and knock out this low res model!
Big Toe: I know, right!?! I'll try to do spywork with where he's at; I suppose you might consider him a threat, on account of his winning two low poly comps here when he was still fighting the good fight for 3DT. You might know him as RobbieK1000....
I dunno what he goes by over on GameArtisans these days, but I'll do my best to see what he's up to.
Cordero: Glad you noticed some of the details. I'm quite proud of how I used the 3DT logo this year, and as for the wolves, I think that's a neat idea as well. Don't quite know how they go together per se, but cool is cool, so I'm doing it! Thanks man:D
30-03-2009, 03:59 AM
It's hard to see from what you have send, but topology looks clean. At least for the legs/arms. I cannot see chest area wire at all. Anyway lots of "I'm lazy" from you in last post. Come ooOOOon. It's a war, god damn it. :)
01-04-2009, 05:36 AM
Cracadoo: You are right, sir! I have no excuses, I gotta finish this model up! Here's a small update after Day two of modeling (day two of three, I guess):
Just a small-ish update. Had to completely redo the armor as I didn't pay attention to the poly flow the first time and had to fix it. And by fix it, I mean redo the entire front half. Anyway, brought everything into one scene to see how the poly limit is and I'm doing fine at 8113 Polys/15, 832 Tris. And that's WITH meshsmooth on and adding a bunch of polys:D Without meshsmooth turned on, It's clocking in at 2,667 Polys and 4,854 Tris! Without having optimized the model at all - and there are TONS of polys that don't need to be there - that's pretty good. Now, all I gotta do is optimize it, model the hand, model the wolf shoulder pads, model the sword, finish the hair, and copy some stuff and I'll be golden!
Here's hoping I'll have it ready for unwrapping by the weekend. Here are some wireframes, and the model with meshsmooth turned off:
Day Three Agenda: Sword, Shoulder Pads, Hair and Optimizing. Now, it's time to do some checking in on fellow 3DT soldiers!
01-04-2009, 03:32 PM
Nice progress. The model is looking really good.
Looks good so far! Well done.
01-04-2009, 08:57 PM
nice work so far :D really digging the wolf-head shouler pads in the model sheet. great idea.
my only suggestion right now, before you get too far into the modelling is to take a step back, and take a look at the whole sillhouette, currently it is quite regular in shape, and you could maybe introduce some nice shapes to break it up a bit, possibly over-exagerate the quiff in the hair and some bolder shapes to the armour (the wolf shoulders will certainly help there too)
really solid start, and look forward to seeing your updates :D
02-04-2009, 04:35 AM
Got the body done!
All the armor is now modeled, as is the sword. All I need to do now is pull the planes for the hair, than merge the head into the scene and put everything together!
Everyone thanks for the comments and critiques! L3XICON: I definitely would love to make my guy stand out more, but I'm not quite sure what I can do to change the guy up much. I mean, I realize he's quite regular...I kinda want him to be. I'm using this year's D-War comp just to see if I can do something current-gen (at best, my old models were Wii/PS2 quality), so if he ends up looking like something from Too Human for example, that would be fine by me for now.
I still wanna think it through though, especially once I put everything together. I'll play around with it once it's all assembled. Any specific suggestions (besides the hair), by anybody, would be welcome in the meantime:D I'm thinking once I'm done, I'll play around with tweaking some shapes on the armor to be more distinct...
Note to self; optimize this guy; the poly limit is 10k TRIS. Don't confuse that with polys!!!
03-04-2009, 03:39 AM
I have a possibly final model here:
Though now that he's done, I'm going to explore tweaking the armour and seeing if I can add some more unique shapes, as L3X said. I think that I could push the wolf angle a bit, and add "wolfy shapes" to the armour with some tweaks. Y'know; fang looking structures, tail looking lines, etc. I'll work on that quickly and try to get some alternate versions up and see if you guys like what you see. But overall, this guy is ready for unwrapping! :) Even though I had hoped to finish this up last weekend, I'm still on track for where I wanna be...
05-04-2009, 12:06 AM
I spent a little bit of Friday and then today (Saturday) modeling variants on the armour, just to see if I could make my character a little more unique. Give him a more unique shape/form, a more standout silouhette. Y'know, like L3X commented.
However, I only came up with two additional ideas. One I call the "Fang armour" set because it incorporates fang-like structures. The other was being called the "Wolf armour" because it had a cap-like structure shaped like a wolf's head that came up and over the head of the guy. After spending awhile modeling it though, it kinda looked like....garbage. So now I only have two armours to show ya. The original and the fang variant. If anyone has any other ideas as towards tweaking my guy to make him stand out more, I'd love to hear them. Though I would like to start unwrapping sometime this weekend/upcoming week.
Here are pics:
There's not a radical change or whatever -- from a distance, they basically look the same -- but it's something. I knew going in I was shooting for something game-y, that's all. Not super original (it's kinda depressing that THAT's what the game industry looks for; whatever is closes to Gears of War or Halo mostly), but competent. So I wasn't really prepared to make radical tweaks to the character/armour. However, I'm open to opinion and suggestions!
After all, isn't that the point of being in a forum like 3DTotal;D
06-04-2009, 09:50 AM
First of all great work so far you've finished the model with a good amount of time for tweaks to be made.
What if you shaped the arm piece into a wolf's paw, where the claws would go over his fingers (in a wolverine fashion). So you could have one sharp end towards his elbow, like a tail and claws on the other end. The same can be done for his legs. I think sharp shapes would work very well for him.
07-04-2009, 11:55 PM
I'll give it a shot Miycko; figured (as much as I hate waiting) that I'd spend this week playing around with the model a bit if anyone had any ideas worth exploring. Considering that at some point I considered modeling paws to the gauntlets and shin guards, I think that's worth exploring;)
EDIT: Something like this maybe?
It's hard to find a good pic of a wolf's paw, and even then, it's hard to add something too detailed on top of the gauntlet's very simple poly flow. But I think it's the thought that counts here anyway:)
08-04-2009, 12:00 AM
I think he needs a wolf helmet or a necklace of canines made of ice crystal!
08-04-2009, 12:40 AM
I think he needs a wolf helmet...
... or a necklace of canines made of ice crystal!
08-04-2009, 12:52 AM
you know he wants a T-H wolf helmet, even if he is a little japanese
08-04-2009, 01:48 AM
Testing out some ideas. It's just photoshoppin' some renders, but whaddya guys think? Should I model these?
First off, a minor detail. Adding teeth to the collar:
Just figured it should push the whole fang motif all the way. Only having two might seem...half-assed...
Continuing along that logic, changing the back to a wolf's cap, so as to give the effect that the torso armor is an open wolve's mouth:
And then this...
08-04-2009, 06:21 AM
Note to self: I could probably start unwrapping the non-armour part of the model. I don't think I'm going to change that...oh, and don't forget the top of the logo/shield thing.
08-04-2009, 06:48 AM
i dig the back change to the wolf cap, i don't know if you want the additional detail of eyes and such, but thats up to you. the fangs along the neck... i hope he never needs to duck or look down in battle. maybe drape them over down the front or something. either that or give him an additional throat guard piece to keep those from hitting him.
08-04-2009, 09:57 AM
Nice, I like the claws but i certainly wouldn't wanna be on the recieving end of a punch from this guy. The fangs on the collar are a bit dangerouse, like Darbruce said if he has to duck he might just hurt himself. For the wolf cap i like the second one without the eyes. It just needs to be a little bit smaller or maybe the same size as the original.
Something like this. Hope you don't mind me drawing over your render.
08-04-2009, 02:44 PM
looks great, have the head thingy from only one side to break the uniform look he has through the model. make the left a bit different from the right. good progress though, do something about the nub hair points on his head too.
09-04-2009, 09:40 PM
Thanks for the comments guys! I'm going to get the wolf head back armour piece modeled this weekend and than call it quits for modeling. Gotta make sure I finish, and I do not like unwrapping models:) The suggestions really helped turned my design into something more striking and interesting all around.
Darbs: I know; I figured the extra teeth would be dangerous. Didn't figured you'd Styers me on it though:)
Miycko: Thanks for the art. I actually didn't like it as big as I was doing it in my concepts - I'm actually going to try and do something a lot closer to what you had. Well, maybe a little bigger (to cover the whole back of the head), but still:) Whatever looks right.
Ryvick: I know he's very symmetrical. I usually keep asymmetry in mind when designing characters, but I'm playing it safe with this guy relatively. I'm using D-War IV mostly to play around with a current gen character workflow; I've never sculpted and generated normal maps for a character I've modeled till now. I'm usually more of a PS2/Wii level-of-detail kinda guy, though I have done some sculpting in Mudbox before. I just want to do a character that maybe, just maybe, would belong in a mediocre 360 or PS3 game:) So I don't want to do anything too crazy since I consider this a learning experience and want to finish. Hence, symmetry; it'll be easier to unwrap.
09-04-2009, 10:58 PM
And now, the obligatory character bio:
A little hard to read to places, and I'm sure there's a spelling error or two, but that's why it's a .psd:) Just putting it up there for now.
10-04-2009, 01:51 AM
I like the story, half way through i couldn't tell where it was going which is great, very original. So ARK REALLY IS A DEADMAN.
10-04-2009, 05:12 AM
Here's the "final armour"
And here it is with the Wolf head modeled onto the piece:
I could either way, honestly. It doesn't add much, so it doesn't look too bulky or anything, but...it doesn't add much, so is it worth keeping?
I'm getting started unwrapping the body, so I'll leave this up and wait for opinions before attaching the armour and beginning to unwrap that. Thanks for the input so far guys, keep it up!
10-04-2009, 06:59 AM
Okami needs to metamorphose into a cel-shaded albino crazy japanese she-wolf... made of ice.
and does the other sword really illuminate heaven? i think blue light may clash with the rest of the gods' clothing. consider your chops busted, sir.
86 the wolf head, its a bit too much, good idea though. maybe make it into a helmet.... it's not too human enough yet. double bust!
but seriously, lose the head. its fine without.
10-04-2009, 07:18 AM
I like the head. It's stylish.
10-04-2009, 07:57 PM
I think I like the wold head on his back, and I think if you put it there, you could do away with it in the shoulder pads, they're looking a bit restrictive right now.
Looking pretty good all around. Swords look nice.
11-04-2009, 02:57 AM
Done! Thanks for the input guys. I trust Miycko and Warlock, and generally do the opposite of whatever Darbs tells me (don't try and use that against me now), so the wolf head stays. Moving onto unwrapping, cuz I wanna sculpt and I can't do that till unwrapping is done.
Gonna be an unpleasant weekend then. I hate unwrapping...
EDIT: Actually, I've been enjoying unwrapping so far:) Makin' progress, so here's a quick update:
Thanks to all the tunes I've been listening to, and some bad weather 'round here, I got into a nice unwrapping groove. The armour isn't unwrapped yet; I spent today unwrapping the body (the left side stuff in the Unwrap UVW dialog). than I collapsed it to an editable poly and attached the armour (the right side messy squares). Can't wait to get this done tommorow, so I can bring this puppy into Mudbox this week! Can't wait to sculpt, can't wait to sculpt!
13-04-2009, 05:10 AM
My mission for the weekend - unwrapping this guy - has been accomplished! Considering I hate unwrapping, and this is by far the most **** on a character that I've ever had to squish onto an unwrap (I extra hate packing UV's), I think that's pretty good for 2 days! Guess that's what happens when you just put on your headphones, crank Coheed and Cambria (also Deathcab for Cutie), and just...work. Crazy, I know;)
First off, before I render him out, I think I should show my repeating texture:
The reason being, he just looks odd with it on. But anyone whose been doing this for awhile can tell you that sometimes the checker pattern don't cut it. Things can get unwrapped facing the wrong direction, and stretches don't show as well. Though, I was lazy anyway and just eye'd this instead of using Photoshop's offset like I shoulda, so it's still not perfect. But it was far more helpful than the checker pattern.
Anyway, now you know why he looks like this:
And the unwrap, not in real size (which is monstrous; I've never worked on a 2048 x 2048 before):
It's super dense. It scares me a little, actually:) But what's great about all this is that NOW I FINALLY GET TO SCULPT! Bringing him into Mudbox before I finish up for the night. I am so happy to be up to this step; the whole point of me entering D-War 4 is to do a normal mapped, current gen character and practice that workflow, so this is what it's all been about for me thus far. Can't wait to get back into Mudbox - it feels like forever since the mini comp!
EDIT: It begins...
13-04-2009, 05:44 AM
I was tossin' ideas around between myself and Darbs and realized that we wanted to include OTHER teams' logos on our final piece. For example, I was gonna put the Polycount logo on the texture for a vehicle I had previously done, than tear the model up and put the pieces strewn about my guys base (if my poly limit can handle it; I'm likely gonna skimp on the base a bit). The effect being that my guy tore the hell up a Polycount robot:) As for Dabruce, well, I'll let him say on his own thread what is *his* brilliant idea...
Anyway, Big Toe said it's fine by the rules, so long as everyone knows your character fights for Team Threedy!
Anyway, to anyone visiting my WIP thread, I say unto you; here are GameArtisans' and Polycounts' logos. So you don't have to go trolling around their sites, though those two are all I need, so you'll have to troll other sites' forums for their logos. That being said, I strongly encourage anyone whose reading this to consider a way to put other teams logo on their characters/pieces, in a way that hurts the other team. Maybe put 'em on the ground with bullet holes right through the center (and your guy holding a smoking gun)? Maybe have 'em painted on the side of a machine with X's through 'em, like how fighter pilots used to keep track of shot down enemy craft? Whatever - be creative; we are united against all other forums and we are better than them! Team Threedy FOREVER!
Polycount is going down!
GameArtisans (and RobbieK1000, specifically) is going down!
13-04-2009, 03:15 PM
if your using max, you can always toss a checkered pattern on the mesh, set it to a 10 x 10 and there you go, a quick and easy to read uvw thingy.
15-04-2009, 12:11 PM
Yeah what I do is assign a new material that has a checker pattern in it then when I work on areas like the chest I make the map like 10 X 10 but then when i get to working on the fingers I make is 50 X 50 for the time I spend in there, easier to see distortion that way. And that way you dont have to change anything over than the scales for that material.
Nice work with the logos to use, and by use I mean abuse. :P
15-04-2009, 04:44 PM
Nice idea with the logos. It'd be cool to just have the guy posed ripping the polycount face in half.
16-04-2009, 03:49 AM
will I now?
ok, i will....
16-04-2009, 04:05 AM
Looking good. Nice uv layout, very clean. Now I want to see the sculpted detail. Keep it up.
16-04-2009, 06:33 AM
Mwahahaha, I'm so glad i can speak 7 languages now... (i wish) but i did succeed sir, check out my thread.
17-04-2009, 01:55 AM
Nice idea with the logos. It'd be cool to just have the guy posed ripping the polycount face in half.
Hahahahaha. Dude, consider it done, Puckducker!
18-04-2009, 06:42 AM
I'm not really gonna start sculpting hardcore till this weekend, but I got a bit of a start so far. Unfortunately, it's not as good as I'd have hoped - my inexperience is showing, I'm afraid. My big problem is two-fold; I can't subdivide too much (my laptop cannot take a 4X subdivided model in 3ds Max, even when I have [O] Optimizing turned on), so I'm stuck with working on a 3X Subdivided mesh. Couple that with the fact that my guy is already too low poly, and I'm having some noticeable problems in some areas.
At least I know for next time to up my resolution/edge loops on my low-res model in certain areas, so the topology will accomodate sculpting better:) Oh well.
Anyway, WIP's of my sculpt:
All I can say is, I'm glad I decided that Ark is a dead man, 'cuz some of this muddy sculpting definitely lends him a zombie-esque look (I'm sorta ashamed of the hand; I'll probably take another pass at it later)
I think that ultimately, it will still look decent. Maybe PSN/XBLA-caliber, or a bad-looking retail game for those systems (The Outfit?). Still though, I wish I would've upped the polys in areas like around the eyes, the feet, the fingers...I guess, anywhere where bending/folding occurs. There's just not enough resolution for clean brushwork in some areas, and that's gonna be a problem I imagine.
Still, I like sculpting:) So I'm sure I'll still have a good time this weekend. Though for future reference on my part:
A) Don't blow apart the model. Just sculpt him all assembled
B) Seriously, use up far more of a given poly limit. You could add resolution to way more areas, and that will improve the sculpting without having to subdivide it more than 3 times...
18-04-2009, 06:55 AM
For example, here's what I'm talking about:
There just isn't enough resolution in the pants to make the scratch brush work:
I seriously have to go in and add more edge loops next time.
It should look a little more like this, which isn't great, but is definitely usable:
That's the same setting btw, as that ugly poly mess on the pants in the above pic. Seriously, the lack of resolution is killing me! I wish I could subdivide more, but I'm being realistic here; I gotta bring this thing into Max eventually, and my laptop ain't exactly an HP Workstation here...
Oh, and speaking of subdividing, the subdividing x3 is STILL giving me something to complain about:
A freaking pulled vert! The crazy thing is - considering my history with mudbox problems, it isn't that surprising actually - it only appears when I subdivide 3x. At 2x, it's fine, and doesn't appear. But as soon as I Shift+D that third time, BAM! This little ******* appears.
I'm not too worried about it, actually. I'm just miffed that my sculpting isn't going pain-free...
18-04-2009, 07:03 AM
Note to self: Seriously consider starting over. Assemble the model back in 3ds Max, export it again (as POLYS!), and just start over. It's too late to add resolution, but at least it will alleviate some of the pain of having to move the camera and guess where certain folds - like around the belt - would be.
18-04-2009, 12:35 PM
don't bring it into max, use xnormal to create your normal map as well as an AO map.
I had the same issue, mudbox didn't want to create my normal maps for me, so I was forced into importing the high poly model into max, and doing it there, which meant, lower high poly models. Xnormal has changed that.
also, if your going to go back into max and move the items around and have the tri count to playwith. Go ahead and add it where you think it needs to be. Just make sure you collapse the stack before you do, so the unwrap is saved to the mesh. Then you wont have to worry about re-unwrapping, or having your current unwrap getting all weird on you.
Another thing, to help you out. I'm no mudbox guru, but I started off the same way you are, by seperating the models parts. So try this. In max before you export, use the element mode in editable poly to select whole peices, then dettach them from the rest of the model. Do that for all parts of the model. Then when you import the file into modbox, you can select parts of the mesh you don't feel like sculpting on and freeze them. You can then also sub d some areas higher than other areas. Which should help your computer out.
18-04-2009, 11:00 PM
Big Toe: THANK YOU! I seriously can't thank you enough for all the helpful tips. I didn't know anything about xNormal before, but from the sounds of it, it sounds like it's gonna be INVALUABLE to me. I think I will go in and add more edgeloops in some areas also, and just re-export/re-start the sculpting all over again.
Again, thanks man. I don't know how you always seem to know when I need help, but it's super appreciated. You're like some kind of 3D modeling superhero, sir!
18-04-2009, 11:03 PM
ditto here, xnormal is kickass (in the Gabe voice even). so much easier and less of a headache than bringing the OBJ back into MAX, this is mostly because MAX hates you, but it'll get over it some day.
Also, make sure you use Guruware to export the OBJ for Mudbox, it solves all the tri/quad/vert issues you may have going back and forth. Even though most of the problems lie with Zbrush moreso than mudbox, i have had some problems.
18-04-2009, 11:04 PM
you should also kick yourself for graduating before me, Styers showed us all about xNormal the last few quarters i was there.
19-04-2009, 01:16 AM
xnormal is nice, but I alawys do all my normals in maya. Just a lot more control to bake everything just as I want it....course it probably takes me 5x longer....
With some of your mudbox stuff, you should always be sure to divide up your model for sculpting so that area's that will need detail will have the appropriate resolution. So if you know you're pants are going to need lots of detail, make sure they have enough polys so you can get the resolution you need.
19-04-2009, 01:58 AM
Thanks for all the tips guys. I went back into Max and added in more resolution in places where I think I'll need 'em after all.
And so far my new attempt at sculpting seems to be going relatively pain free. The weird pulled vert from last time is gone, and the brushes - specifically the scratch brush - seems usable now.
^^Much more natural^^
If things continue to go so smoothly, expect a lot of updates this weekend as I sculpt the crap outta Ark:) And with xNormal now installed on my computer, I'm feeling good about eventually pulling normals off my high poly for my low poly guy.
19-04-2009, 09:23 PM
Quickie updates: Just some shots of my sculpting WIPs
Going back into Max and adding those extra edge loops seems to really be helping me out here. It's sooo much easier to sculpt in places that I was previously having major trouble in, like the pants and hands. Anyway, back to sculpting!
20-04-2009, 12:55 AM
I think my sculpt is done:
Could it be better? Oh yeah it could:) But it looks good to me and I'm happy, AND this whole process has taught me a lot about how I should improve my workflow in the future. Mostly though, I wanna call this done so I can have plenty of time to start my texture, which will probably be the most time-consuming thing for me to do. Not to mention I now have xNormal to play with and figure out. These factors, as well as just working to make sure I finish on time, are why I'm calling my sculpt done at this point.
Of course, glaring flaws will cause me to go back in and sculpt 'em out:) Whaddya guys think? Though keep in mind two things; the wolves are only sculpted on one side because I overlapped them in the unwrap. Also, they look pretty bad cuz the resolution isn't there to support good sculpting, and I stupidly ignored them when I went back into Max and added edge loops. The sword too was ignored when I went back into Max, though the details for that were always meant to be painted. I never really thought out if I was gonna paint the wolf on the shoulder pads or sculpt them; guess my model decided that for me;)
20-04-2009, 03:08 AM
Sculpts not bad, definitely some nice looking area's. The cloth isn't quite working though. you should push into the mesh just as much as you're pulling out. Like, just take a large brush, large enough to fit between two of your "folds" and just push right into the mesh. When cloth compresses some of it goes out and some pushes in and that's what makes the wrinkles.
But I imagine you're not running with a heck of a lot of mudbox/sculpting experiance, so it's definately.
And, yeah, sub-dividing your model looks like it's made a huge difference. Something else I like to usually make sure I do...stress test your machine to figure out how many polys you can push around in mudbox/zbrush and still work comfortably. Then divide back that number by 4 a few times (since a subdivided mesh always goes up 4x in polycount on each level), until you're in the low thousands, or close to where your base mesh model is sitting at. Then you just need to added extra loops in area's you want until you reach that magic number....and now, when you divide up your model, it'll be at the perfect resolution level.
It just sucks when your machine won't go much beyond 2 million polys, but your stuck at sub-div level 5 at 800,000, and can't divide up higher. I suppose mudbox can do local subdivision as well, but it's still a good practice I find.
20-04-2009, 01:59 PM
Nice work man. I like the folds in the pants they're looking good. His chin's looking odd though, it should gon in and then come out. Something like this.
Good progress! Your sculpting comes out good!
I agree to Puckducker's point about the clothes. If you work it over that way, the clothes will surely look great!
21-04-2009, 10:01 PM
Well alright guys; thanks for the critiques and tips, guys! And in general the kind words (JuST) and help (Big Toe); it's all super encouraging. You guys are helpin' me out alot!
I'm going back in to re-do the folds on the clothes like PuckDucker said, and also add in a little indent to the chin (thanks, Miycko, for catching that!). However, I was playing around with the current sculpt and seeing how good I could pull the Normal Map from it onto the low poly models, and I definitely see some problems. From both xNormal and doing it traditionally in 3ds Max (I'll post some pics later).
I think ultimately for some sections I'm just gonna ignore the sculpt and do it as a bump map; I think xNormal can convert bump maps to Normal maps a la Crazybump. For most of the armor, I think this is the way to go. I'll just do two normal maps, one from the sculpt and another from the bump, and MacGuyver them together into one.
This process has definitely taught me a lot about sculpting and pulling normal maps and working with high res models:) I can't wait to start ANOTHER model, but gotta focus and knock this guy out for the glory of Team Threedy!
21-04-2009, 11:04 PM
Update: This time with Problems! :)
So like I said, I played around pulling the normal map from my high res onto my low res previously. First in xNormal, than when that was giving me headaches, I was forced to do it in Max (which wasn't as painful as I thought it was going to be). First the xNormal problems:
Basically, it's capturing it weirdly, and givine me weird seams as a result.
like under the arms
Or projecting things wrongly - this one shows up when it's set for rays OR cage, which pissed me off a bit:(
And the toes are unusable. I know I did a number on those, but I figured they'd be captured better than THIS. Expect me to try and hide the feet when it comes time for the beauty render:)
Granted, I'm sure some of these problems stem from this being my first time with xNormal. But it seemed pretty straightforward...
Now the Max version, which fixed some issues and brought some new ones:
The seams are gone, but there's a weird graininess now
oh, and also I guess I gotta remember to turn smooth shade back on before I export the high res outta Mudbox, eh? :)
Yea, the toes are unusable:(
Anyway, I figure I will eventually just capture the thing in Max, since overall that Normal map seems a little better. Though that grain is a pain in the ass; I honestly have no ideas currently what to do to fix it. In terms of the normal map though, I figure most of it is usable. I'll just cut out all the parts with the armour; trust me, it doesn't look very good. I'll do the armor detail as a bump map and just cobble it together into one Normal Map.
Anyway, while I mull over my options in my head, I'm going back into Mudbox to sculpt better folds and fix that chin...
22-04-2009, 12:29 AM
Gonna play around with pulling the normal maps again; I really should start my texture now-ish. I mean, I still gotta texture it, rig it, do the entire base platform, than worry about lighting/rendering (a big weakness for me in the past). And we only have...three weeks or so, and I only get to work on this 4 days a week max. I'm sure anyone involved in the comp is starting to feel the crunch too, so I can't be the only one worrying about finishing at this point...
22-04-2009, 01:49 AM
Went back to playing around with the Normal Map. Take a look at how horrible the cage is automatically:
Figured that may have something to do with some of my problems;) So I played around with the Push section of the Cage modifier; played with some of those parameters and closed in the cage a bit...
Now it looks noticeably better - the head is nearly perfect (some weirdness on the hair), and the graininess seems less prominent. In fact, it's gone from some areas, but it remains in others...
Still looks pixelated as hell though; smooth shade is on in mudbox too. I don't know why Max captures it like that, but xNormal captures it smoothly (just terribly).
He actually reads decently, so I know I'm on the right track. I still got a ways to go though. Ugh...I'm starting on the diffuse map now though. I'll play around with this again later.
22-04-2009, 04:34 AM
if your bring the high into max, make sure it has a smoothing group on it. Sometimes people think that because it is higher in poly count, it will be smoothed, it's not. The end result will be the grainy look.
Also, never use the auto cage. Always reset that mug. But you figured that part out already, just keep playing with the push amount and percent. and if you have to, go into vert mode and manually move verts around. Keep your pimp hand strong.
24-04-2009, 06:51 AM
Thanks, Toe, for the tips! I'm happy to announce that my Normal Mapping problems are no more!
And also that I've begun texturing. The horrendous, laborious process...of texturing. *sigh:(
I allotted myself four days to texture and two to rig, but I'm already on my second day of texturing and I've barely started. Not to mention that, if I really want this guy to shine, I'm gonna have to make a bump map for at least HALF the character:
All those red areas? Yea...sculpting that wasn't too smart. I'm much better served just drawing the details on a gray scale bump map and running that through xNormal. (and than frankenstein'ing together one normal map from the two - the one I got from my sculpt and the other from the bump). But I gotta texture it first! Aaaauughhhh. Stupid deadline; all approaching, and stuff. Things might get rushed, but I'm determined to finish...I just wish that texturing didn't take soooooo long!
24-04-2009, 07:57 AM
4 days...a long time to texture? I alloted myself two weeks to texture, grant it I'm five days into that portion of my schedule and have but begun modeling, but hey that's neither here nor there.
In any case, you've got some time left, better than two weeks, let the texturing run a week or 10 days if that's what its take to make it shine. Texturing is easily as important as the modeling. I've seen some pretty ugly models saved by some ace textures, and conversely, I've seen some amazing sculpts and meshes raped by shoddy texture work.
Anyway, you're models coming along well. Looks like the normal mapped bits you did get turned out pretty nice. Keep it up, you're doing fine. :)
I like your latest WIP-pic! The folds are looking better now.
Keep it up! You're doing pretty well! I'm looking forward to see your character entirely textured.
25-04-2009, 07:03 AM
The latest pics look great. Glad you've managed to solve some of those problems & looking forward to the next update.
26-04-2009, 01:37 AM
Man, thanks for the encouragement all! Warlock - you always seem to know how to spur me forward:) I'm gonna try to do a good job, but I just can't believe the end of April is already comin' up. Don't you feel the crunch too? Well, whatever - good work comes first, so I won't rush it and I'll take the time needed to get it done as best I can. JuST and Miycko; you guys rock! I'll do my best to make everyone happy - including myself, of course;) And do the best job I can. I've already done soooo much better than my last, rather embarrassing D-War entry (for D-War II). If I feel like it, I'll put a pic of it up here, but only when I'm done with this guy. It wouldn't be fair to compare a finished project to a WIP:)
Hitting my stride/groove it seems (or rather, I hope), so I figured I might as well post some WIPs:
Oh, and I wanted to post these so people could take a look and decide which tattoos they like better. Traditional Black or icy White:
I'm up to playing around with those alot. I remember I was gonna do something with a laser blue highlight on them, but I kinda liked the look of plain white. Actually, I suppose I should finish the skin to see if it's even viable - I had to texture the skin normally first, but ultimately I have to give it a gray, dead, frozen appearance...
Also, I gotta poke around the forums and check up on everyone else right about now. It feels like forever since I checked out everyone else's awesome work!
26-04-2009, 03:46 AM
Well lemme see. I like the white alot, but as you said if his skin tone's gonna be pale/gray then you might have to go for black or the lazer blue you were talking about, which i think would be really cool by the way. The colour in his hair looks good as well, i'd keep and add a bit of details.
26-04-2009, 04:04 AM
Glad to help whenever I can. :) And yes, I'm feelin' the pressure too, every day that goes by, the pressure seems to double. Every time I get on a roll I think "I've got this, no sweat" and every time I hit a snag I think "Wow, there is no way I'm gonna make it."
I'm with miycko on the color of the tats, white is sweet but it could clash with the skin in the end. That being said, be careful of the skin tone as well that it doesn't run into the hair too much. If you do start running into a problem there you could always try darker roots on the hair to get some separation. The hair as it now is looking pretty good tho.
26-04-2009, 06:15 AM
I think everything is coming along well, but I do think your logo should be some where else on your character. instead a tatto of the logo, have it on the front of your armor. Currently that logo gets lost with all those tribal markings you got going on there. Like if you quickly glance at it, it doesnt pop out at you. You got to kinda hunt for it. Like try putting it some where, where it can stand out on its own. like if you are going to have the symbol black, dont have alot of things that are black around it. In my oppinion it just gets lost and really hard to see.
26-04-2009, 07:00 AM
Another thought is to make the tattoo logo if you want to keep it there a different color. Like Red, or if you put a logo on the front of the chest armor, maybe consider making the logo there white or black or like how you have the logo in the background surrounded with while stroke line work. just some ideas for you to roll around. Overall its a very nice piece. Cool stuff. Keep going.
27-04-2009, 05:12 AM
Man, I went around checkin' on some fellow Threediers over the weekend, and got some ideas for the cloth texture on my guy. Now I'm even more BEHIND schedule, but I think the clothing looks alot cooler:
Got the idea from a combination of cloth texture/pattern I saw in N3: Ninety Nine Nights and also SEGA's recently announced End of Eternity:
(The trim on his blue...skirt thing)
(The pattern on her shirt)
So it took longer than I was expecting, but I think I got something that looks pretty cool:)
Unfortunately, I haven't got ANY ideas for how to texture the armour. Gonna spend the next day or so just combing though other entries and a lot of video game media to try and spark some ideas. I wanna finish this texture THIS WEEK, 'cuz the more I texture, the more I see just how much of my Normal Map is usable and how much needs to be replaced with a suped up bump map. I wanna start on that bump map this weekend, definitely, so I really wanna finish this.
Of course, based on criticisms and suggestions, I'll take however long to get this texture right. If you guys wanna see specific things - colours, patterns, etc. - I'll glady do it and see if it works! In that spirit, I'm going to try and keep the updates coming regularly.
Back to work!
27-04-2009, 05:24 AM
Okay; Miycko and Warlock; thanks for the input, guys!
I tried to "grey up" the skin a bit cheaply (new layer; grey overlay) and lost a lot of the detail on the skin. So I'm gonna go back and change the actual layer colors of the skin to see if I can get the effect I want. Hopefully I can get some updates soon with better skin and different tattoos, so I could gauge a few options next to each other.
As for Agent X; hmmm - you've given me a lot to think about. I mean, the front piece of the armour IS the Threedy logo:
I mean it's also repeated on the belt buckle. Putting the logo on the front of the armour would put the logo ON the logo, and that would be silly. The logo hidden in the tattoo is more of an easter egg kinda thing; though I like the idea of making the logo in the tattoo a different color. Still, if the Threedy logo armour didn't come through enough for ya, I think I gotta do something about that...
Thanks for the suggestions as to how to pop the logo out more, though. I'll definitely play around with that, man!
27-04-2009, 12:44 PM
whooo! that hard work here, I had not seen, good job! ;)
Looks great! I love the pattern on the clothes! And the logo looks fine.
27-04-2009, 07:33 PM
Ya, looking good. I thing the intricate pattern on the clothes was a great idea. Doesn't get done enough in game art.
To get the logo shape from the armor to pop a little more, you could always play with adding a trim of some sort, maybe a complimentary yellow-orange or something?
27-04-2009, 07:42 PM
another thing you can do/play with, to help push/bring out areas, is a light map. Not as good as an AO map, but it sure does help.
All you do is apply your normal map to the mesh. Open up the render to texture window. "Add" a light map, change the map size to whatever it is you want. Then hit render. It will use the normal maps info in the render. You can then take that render add it as a layer in photoshop and overlay/mutiply/darken to get the look you want. You can always use the oppacity as well if the outcome is too strong for your liking.
Another thing to keep in mind while trying this trick, adding lights into your scene. Setup your lights and do a few test renders till you get what you like, then render out another lightmap and see how the two differ.
28-04-2009, 02:36 AM
Pretty cool character. I might try and render an occlusion pass
as suggested. It would really bring out your forms.
29-04-2009, 08:40 AM
Okay, let's see here. Been hitting my stride texturing, thanks mostly to listening to Pandora in the background. A little Death Cab for Cutie, Coheed and Cambria, and Waterproof Blonde (who did the first version of Christian's - Capt. Charisma - ECW intro theme, for any wrestling fans out there, though Story of the Year's cover - his current theme - is pretty sweet...). Anyway, Updates!
Chris_Solo: Thanks man!
JuST: Thanks also, though Agent-X brought up a point, and honestly, I could do a lot more to pop out the logo. This IS for Team Threedy after all; don't want any confusion about that!
Warlock: I was actually thinking about before you posted anything, but after seeing the suggestions from you guys, I was even more sure that that could work. Ended up putting a mixed trim on it - the lighter, main shape has a dark trim, and the darker smaller shapes have a light trim. Combined with the fact that the torso armor behind them is now a dark blue, it pops out more than before. Thanks for tip though - once the logo popped out, the other color choices began to fall into place...
Big Toe/Polysmooth: Thanks for the tips as well guys! You guys and your fancy maps - I'm a map newbie, and if that term hasn't been used yet, I call dibs:) I've usually just depended on good diffuse maps with dense painted (faked) detail. I've used bump maps, speculars and normals before, but that's about it. Ambient Occlusion is new to me, and light maps - well, actually, I think I did those back in school. It's been awhile. I don't really know what I'm going to get around to playing with since I'm worried about time; I REALLY wanna just focus on the diffuse and the bump map for now since my Normal Map was sorta unusable in some areas. If I have time though, I'll definitely explore those. Can't guarantee I will get them done, but I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the advice!
Anyway, made a lot of progress on the diffuse - the whole torso armour!
I think emphasizing the patterns is what I'm focusing on for an overall motif; the kinda mix between medieval, almost Celtic knot-inspired meets Okami-esque Japanese woodcut swirls. I think all the patterns makes him read more immediately as a magic user. The actual texture is going to be simple, and I'll do most of the detail via the bump map-converted to-a-normal map. Keeping the armour dark so I can pop out some details more via contrast - like the Threedy logo on the front, and also the swirly linework painted on the back. Overall, I know it's crazy - I had no clear idea of what I was going to do - but it doesn't look bad. That's more than good enough for me! :D Oh, and that's as pale as I'm going to make the skin - any paler and the paint job gets completely washed out. Also, I think the eyes and tats are finalized - I was initially thinking glossed over, almost purely white eyes, but after seeing the Too Human-esque lazer blue, I loved it. The white tats are also just a nice contrast to the armour - I think I'm getting a "inorganic=dark, organic=light" color system down here, on accident...
Thanks for the critiques and criticisms so far guys! Keep 'em coming! I'm determined to finish a "first pass" at the texture by the end of the week - any major changes (barring the Threedy logo treatment on the front) will have to be attempted after I finish this. But that doesn't mean I don't wanna keep hearing idea!
29-04-2009, 09:38 AM
Shoulder pads done:
Unfortunately, it's got a big black blotch on it. That's where the normal map gets nasty. So it's gonna look like crap till I replace it with the bump map>normal map this weekend.
Now, it's time for sleep:)
29-04-2009, 04:25 PM
The threedy logo now stands out more and i like the tats, I know you like the eye's the way they are but maybe you could try making them the same colour as the hair, really like the blue in the hair. Too bad his skin won't be any paler (if thats a word), he kinda looks alive right now.
29-04-2009, 05:58 PM
as far as making a light/AO map goes, there really isn't much to it. The time it takes to make, is equal to the time it took to render out the normal map. It's even the same steps.
Just apply the normal map to your character, up the amount the normals play on the mesh. Then pop into the render to texture window. Instead of normal map, pick light map. Toss a skylight, and some omnis or even a spot light or two into the scene. Hit render, and watch as it renders out your map. Take the new map into photoshop, place it as a top layer, then apply a multiply/darken to it. See if it makes your texture look better. If it does, keep it. If not, toss the sucker.
01-05-2009, 03:01 AM
My first pass with the texture is done!
Yes, I realize it's low res. It's not final - just know that it reads pretty well right now, and I don't wanna call attention to unfinished stuff. You guys can tear into some higher res stuff soon:D
Like usual for me, it's densely packed with a lot of useless "greeble" (useless, made up detail). I'm gonna have to refine it a lot just to clean it a bit, but MAN is it nice to see my character with a texture on! Now I know the style I'm going for, and that feels good!
For now though, before I look at suggestions, change some things, I have a bump map to make and run through xNormal. I want this guy's normal map to WORK, 100% all over the model, which means I have to make one up for basically all the inorganic stuff. Though let me make it clear that it's not finished. Miycko - you'll get to see dead eyes before I finish:) I also have to redo the front of the belt, add blood splatters (a la the original concept) - a whole lot of stuff needs to be added or changed on a second pass. But it's nice to have finished it ENOUGH to do a bump map - the normal map should've been done before, but my blasted inexperience stopped that from happening. Oh well - live and learn;)
Back to Photoshop...
P.S. Big Toe; as always, thanks for the info/help!
01-05-2009, 09:00 AM
Bwahahaha - my mutant Normal Map is complete! Did the bump map tonight after I finished my first pass at the Diffuse map, and ran it through CrazyBump. Unless I was missing something, xNormal's Height-to-Normal converter sucks. You can't invert things firstly, secondly I couldn't change the depth of anything. Crazybump just has so many better options. Anyway, ran that through CB and cut/pasted the armour's new normal map onto the old normal map: The difference is night and day.
Oh, just remember that I got rid of the "sculpted" swirls on the armour entirely. I like the simpler, painted-on appearance that the armor has with the texture on it.
I'm soooo pumped now! Getting this step done has made me far more confident that I can hit the deadline:D Now, I look forward to a weekend of toying around with a second pass at the texture...heck, I will probably go back and add stuff to the bump map/normal map for the armour:D
Thanks for the support guys!
01-05-2009, 09:03 AM
Nice, this is coming along well. Keep going.
01-05-2009, 11:42 AM
Sweet, i can't get over that threedy logo, it really stands out, now you gatta get everithing to shine just as much.
02-05-2009, 10:46 PM
Second pass plan:
Okay guys: I'm basically just gonna post a bunch of changes this weekend and see which ones you guys like better. First up, the eyes. Should I go with the Too Human-esque "lazer blue", or the more appropriate and still cool-looking "dead glassy" eye?
02-05-2009, 11:14 PM
New Face Tattoo:
And the new
It reads better now cuz it's bigger, and it also overtly features the Team Threedy logo:) Can't have enough of those!
03-05-2009, 12:56 AM
Now the blood splatters. Real easy in Photoshop, just go to Wet Brushes and have fun, basically. Then play around with the blend modes. I'm looking for a mix of realistic and also 'pop'. Note. There's a HUGE splotch of blood on the neck in some renders - I got rid of it later, 'cuz it didn't look like it was something else's blood. It looked like he had a massive neck injury;)
This one is my current fave, the blood with a vivid light blend mode:
this one is normal, no blend mode
with a darken blend mode
I suppose I'm also looking for a nice balance between fresh looking blood (the normal render) and dried blood (the two blend modes). If it's fresh looking, it looks more like HE'S injured. If it's dried up a bit, you know he's good enough, but are you convinced he's killed enough?
Y'know what? That's silly - I think he looks like he's killed plenty...
03-05-2009, 01:40 AM
I finally get to make some choices,let's see now, i like the the dead glossy eyes, the lazer eyes seem like too much to me. For the face tatoo it would have to be the first one, the second one looks like it's a bit too crowded.
Y'know what? That's silly - I think he looks like he's killed plenty...
Nice one, i agree with you, the vivid blend mode looks best.
great updates, i like the way he looks right now
03-05-2009, 01:51 AM
New "swirls" under the wolf should pads:
Also, I added a pattern to the trim on the Threedy emblem - just glowing little lines and designs. They look like notches up close (and on the smaller darker blue shapes, they are just notches), but you can't really notice them really from a medium distance. However, they help it pop the Threedy logo out, so I'm leaving them in.
P.S. The blood was only removed so I could see what I was doing:) It's still there.
03-05-2009, 01:55 AM
Miycko: What if I take some of the face tattoo off? I can make it smaller, but still keep the second version's Threedy logo? The new version of the tattoo is just traced over the original in a way so that I can cram the logo in the design, and then all the new stuff is on a new layer. I figured it might be too much, so I can just turn it off:
Also, I've implemented all the changes I've wanted to see, so I'm gonna move onto taking a second pass at my bump map for the normal map. Basically, I'm done painting the texture, unless there's some really cool idea anyone wants to see;) Also, gonna take a crack at an AO map, since Big Toe was kind enough to write out a little tutorial for me:) Couldn't hurt right? Though, I certainly am no great scene lighting...guy...:( Don't wanna go through the trouble of making a spec map though - I just don't. I'll make one if I have extra time at the end of the comp. So far, I still have to do:
1. Second pass at bump map. Run it through CrazyBump, and MacGyver it onto my current Normal Map.
2. Try making an AO Map. Why not?
3. Rig the character. Don't forget to copy the sword over and get a final poly/tri count. Also, don't forget to put props on your Max biped! At the latest, I want to be finished rigging him on the 7th!
4. Unwrap your pedestal. I have it modeled already, though I still need to retexture my old vehicle with the polycount logo and chop it up so I can dump the pieces over it...
5. Texture your pedestal.
Hmmmm....that could look weird....
6. Bump map your Pedestal, and run it through Crazybump to give it a normal map.
7. Do all your D-War stuff (beauty render, wire render, etc.)
War's over Monday May 11th! Just a reminder to myself and anyone else! That's only one more weekend!
03-05-2009, 03:52 AM
Ambient Occlusion Map is done:
I did it just like Big Toe said; took awhile to render (my computer REALLY doesn't like working on something this current gen), but I got it, took it photoshop and put it on top of my stack. You can see it with different blend modes - multiply and darken (which, ironically, is lighter). Mostly just wanted to put this pic up to see if I did it right. This IS the first time I've bothered to make an AO map. Just wish making a spec map was as easy...
EDIT: I don't think I did it right; he's grey on the left side of his face. Any skin on that side is now this silvery/marble-esque color. Actually it looks pretty cool, but it's NOT cool that it's a Two-face kinda thing.
Note to self: I should probably try to re-light the scene and do it again. With more than just a MR omni and two normal omnis providing back and highlights. Try putting a skylight in there. Remember (apparently), "To activate skylights you will have to go into the rendering menu and go to advanced lighting. And select light tracer.". Seriously - I've never gotten a skylight to work correctly before. I hate those things...
I think I'm gonna start skinning tommorow anyway. That's the last real BIG step I have to do, and I can still futz with the texture maps afterwards/during anyway.
...I finally get to make some choices...
Yea, after working on this, I've come to regret my old-fashioned workflow. Planning everything out beforehand and doing tightly scheduled, efficient low poly models is just the way I know how to do things and was trained to do things, but the way of the PS2/Wii model is probably coming to an end. I've seen what a lot of these better guys do with Zbrush, being free to do the high poly sculpts first and being far more experimental and going off of various suggestions - it just seems like a really cool way to work. Granted, I could've also entered the 2D comp and done things differently, but I really needed some normal mapping training/practice real bad...
03-05-2009, 12:32 PM
yeah, I may have left out part out. You need a sky light to get a light/ao map to work. If your doing and AO map in max, you will also need to change your renderer to mentaql ray. Little dumb things max makes you do.
could you post the map you got.
04-05-2009, 05:46 AM
Why certainly Big Toe, anything to walk away from skinning for a bit:)
Btw, went into Max and 'light tracer' was grayed out. Is that gonna be a problem? I have no idea how to change my renderer to Mental Ray - I figured it would be in the 'Renderer' tab under the F10 Render Scene Dialogue, but the only things under there are:
Can't find so much as a word about Mental Ray anywhere around there.
04-05-2009, 12:10 PM
To change to mental ray, go into your render settings and in the common tab, at the very bottom, you will see a section that is assign renderer. Open that up, then click the little box next to scanline (default) and change it to Mental Ray.
04-05-2009, 12:40 PM
For some reason I always get a slightly grainy result with MAX, haven't tried xNormal yet,
try OVERLAY blend mode with AO, that always gives me the best results. and i usually dont light the scene before i render for AO in MAX, it just takes the info as to how close or adjacent a normal is to other normals along the normal of that normal (confusing much?) and adjusts the illumination map accordingly, that should eliminate that awful warm/cool look you are getting. then after the AO is in place, you can bake the lights in if you feel like.
04-05-2009, 12:51 PM
your light map looks off a bit. could be why its not reading right when added to your texture. There should be signs of your normal and bump map in there. Make sure you have all your texture maps applied, use a simple sky light, and like 2 or 3 omnis in like a triangle shape (character in the middle). one infront somewhere, maybe even off to the side a bit, the second one would be more to the side, higher of lower than the first. The last light is behind, you could even make this light a spot light. Bring it up nice and high so that it rains down on your characters back. If it all works out the omni/spot lights will make your normal map visable and the skylight, with cast shadows turned on, will take care of the rest.
for your light tracer trouble, not real sure whats going on. You should have the option to use it even if there are no lights in the scene.
06-05-2009, 05:02 AM
Ugh. Note to self:
Seriously, next time you make a character with this much crap on him, utilize layers. That way, when you go to skin the mother f**ker, you can just turn off the bits and pieces that get in the way of selecting vertices:(
Also, why the skylight/light tracer won't work? It's because my production renderer was set to Mental Ray, and MR hates me, apparently. Set it to "Default Scanline Renderer" and Skylights will work/light tracer will NOT be grayed out. Weird, huh?
06-05-2009, 12:34 PM
Here is the good news:
after you unwrap everything(collapse the stack) and apply the texture, you can then detatch items. So in your case, you can detatch each piece of armor as it's own object. Then, you can either skin the armor, or just link the armor to the bone you want in control.
Linking works great for armor because there will be no bending of the hard surface.
08-05-2009, 12:07 AM
oh my god - that's BRILLIANT. I'm going to start over and do that right now, Big Toe:) Thank you so much!
That being said, it should go without saying one way or the other, but skinning this guy is the last thing I'm going to do. I won't use an AO map, I'll just light it for D-War. The pedestal was already modeled, and I just dumped a quick texture/normal onto it. This weekend I wanna knock out all the renders for D-War, so I only have time for skinning now. Too bad - I would've loved to polish this guy more. Oh well; I still learned a ton from this experience and that was the whole point:D
13-05-2009, 12:44 AM
A little update here - I'm pretty much done, but I'm still tweaking my skinning job. Thanks again Big Toe - it was much easier the way you do it;) At this point, I'm just trying to figure out what poses are good. As you can see in the render, I have a piece of metal with the polycount logo ready to be chopped up=) I WAS gonna have more geometry from an imported model, but I wasn't sure if I could get away with that. Instead, I hid the texture on my pedestal (under the Threedy logo), copied the poly, and cut out the part that looks like the pedestal. Now I'm sure I fall within rules and regulations, so I'm happy. Anyway, stuff:
Note to self: write 'Dominance War IV' on the pedestal base. Also, put oil splatters on the Polycount metal, including a 'tear' coming out of one eye. Oh hell, put blood splatters on the pedestal too.
Some 'final' renders: They're just one Photoshop doc with a base template design, in case I gotta change stuff.
"One which would hide..." Doesn't have the word, 'would' in the sentence.
And the pedestal texture:
You can see where I hid the Polycount texture much more clearly here.
I'll probably sketch some poses in Photoshop to play with image composition before actually posing this guy, so I guess that's the next step for me!
Oh, and for ****s and giggles, take a look at my Dominance War II entry:
It's amazing what two years can do!
13-05-2009, 04:53 AM
I'm just gonna post 8 pics. All for fun - none of these are lit, even=) Just playing around with possible poses, and also checking my skinning job - there's definitely some places I could clean up. Anyway; pictures!
Suck on it, Polycount!
13-05-2009, 06:17 AM
awesome, I think I am going to have to say the manliest pose there is the one right here ^ the polykabob and the silhouette are genius.
so you finish a few days ahead of me, not bad for someone who started a month before me and then blackmailed me into enlisting... what's my favorite cigar? that's right, cubans.....
13-05-2009, 08:31 AM
Great update man, you're almost done, that big ass blood spatter on his lower lip's got me thinking vampire though.
I love his second pose, it's awesome.
13-05-2009, 12:34 PM
I like the first and second poses, and then the one where he is ripping the polycount logo in half with his hands. I would really like to see some ripped edges there instead of just a straight line. The swords coming through look weird because there are no holes or tears where they do come through, so it looks a little unnatural.
16-05-2009, 02:11 AM
I'm unhappy:( My spec map makes Ark look like he's wearing a mask, at the very least it looks like his face is brown and his neck is white. That means I've gotta toss it:
Here's an example of a render without the spec map:
And here's the render with the spec map turned on.
Also, my pedestal is very loud. I wonder how to make it...fight for attention, I guess, less.
16-05-2009, 11:00 AM
Less saturation on the colors of the pedestal will add some shadow where the feet hit the ground, that will give the guy some weight. BTW I sent you a PM..hope you looked at it.
16-05-2009, 12:37 PM
I know you put alot o work into your stands texture, but it is a bit on the loud side of things. Have you thought of a reflective black.
Take a simple black material, pump up the spec, then under the reflect slot, either go with a mirrior or a raytrace material. Turn them down to like 10 so they only give a hint of their goodness. Then, under the spec color, or even the illuminate slot, you can use the diffuse texture you made. It might just shine through.
Also, make sure you got yourself a skylight in the scene with cast shadows turned on. Hopefully your light tracer option is up and running, then that on too.
I agree with Big Toe's opinion. The stand just stands out too much. But alltogether it looks awesome so far and I really hope you'll get that spec. material fixed.
16-05-2009, 09:05 PM
well, unless he's sweating profusely, (ice powers, so i doubt it.) i'd just dial down the value of his skin in general on the spec map, skins not that shiny usually. my pedestals a bit loud too, so i'm going to try just desaturating or darkening the diffuse in PS.
17-05-2009, 02:58 AM
as Big ToE said, a reflective black pedestal might not be a bad idea
Hope you get that spec map fixed soon.
The war Ends tomorrow.:(
17-05-2009, 05:39 PM
Alright! I'm done!
Submitted all my finals just now. I think it came out very well. Here's the images:
I'm sooooooo glad to be done with D-War IV. This was hurtin' my laptop the better the model got. Once I had to deal with spec maps and normal maps, it was a pain in my butt to work with. Can't wait to start something new though - I learned soooo much working on Ark=) I REALLY wanna join another Threey low poly comp after this...
Now, it's time to pop around other people's threads' and check out the AWESOME Threey army this year! It has been an honor to serve alongside you guys=)
17-05-2009, 06:13 PM
Badass, does it feel as good as i think it will?
18-05-2009, 03:33 AM
Nice. Congratulations on finishing up. I can sympathize with your machine giving you trouble as the textures start. I think I spent more time waiting for photoshop to apply things than I did actually texturing.
18-05-2009, 10:22 AM
Congrats man. I also posted my finals yesterday.
Feels good to be finished. :dance:
18-05-2009, 12:11 PM
Grats on finishing man, job well done. I'm with you in that I learned soooo much in this comp, I cant' wait for another to start. I'll be seeing you in the low poly comps :)
Very well done!
Congrats on finishing!
18-05-2009, 10:55 PM
congrats & well done guy! a war on your part! it's always something, for me it was last year.
Thank you to you for your words about my project, it's always something, and for me it's today.
(I hope to understand, I'm not good in English:)
20-05-2009, 07:03 AM
Just had another look at those poses you did for your beauty shots. I see you go rid of the blood on the lip which is good.
Awesome stuff ripping that polucount logo appart, love the effects on it. Could you do a render of that bottom right pose, i'd like to see what it looks like on it's own, if you don't mind.
20-05-2009, 07:38 AM
Turned out pretty good. Glad you made it to the end. :)
Really wish they'd have let us break up that texture sheet, gets lame staring at a watch icon for a minute every time you press ctrl+s. :dunno:
20-05-2009, 04:14 PM
Just had another look at those poses you did for your beauty shots. I see you go rid of the blood on the lip which is good.
Awesome stuff ripping that polucount logo appart, love the effects on it. Could you do a render of that bottom right pose, i'd like to see what it looks like on it's own, if you don't mind.
Thanks for catching the blood btw; I didn't just remove the rather messy blotch on the lip, but since I was revisiting the blood smears anyway I ended up changing the blend mode on them to the one I used on the pedestal so they stood out less. They look more realistic and less cartoony in the end, I think, so thanks for making me take a second look.
Unfortunately, I can't get you the Master render for any individual poses. As soon as the contest was done, I wiped everything that wasn't necessary to keep from my computer. I had over 50 renders to play with (mostly variations with different backgrounds so I could magic wand them in photoshop and see which ones I got cleanest results with), as well as dozens of textures (all confusingly named), various models at different stages of completion - it was all a mess. I'll take a closer look around my folders and stuff later though; maybe it's still around.
EDIT: Well, the photoshop render is long gone - I got rid of all my PSD's. However, 3ds max autoback comes through once again! Here are some clean renders:
Turned out pretty good. Glad you made it to the end. :)
Really wish they'd have let us break up that texture sheet, gets lame staring at a watch icon for a minute every time you press ctrl+s. :dunno:
Yes it certainly does:D Y'know, I'm serious questioning my thought process for that - I probably shoulda worked on 4 smaller texture maps than combined them all into the one HUGE one at the end - how would they know? Could've kept the pedestal and character on one sheet that way. Oh well; what's done is done, and overall D-War IV was awesome:)
20-05-2009, 04:49 PM
Oh btw, Miycko: are you going to do the post D-War mini comp? Since I didn't get around to doing a 2D piece for the main comp, and since I didn't focus on my 2D for the mini comp, I was definitely thinking about entering the next 2D mini comp. Especially after seeing some speed art videos on Gametrailers lately - they really got me thinking about new ways to paint in photoshop:
I am so pumped for the next mini comp actually! And doing 2D will be ALOT easier on my laptop - can I count on seeing you there as well? :D
21-05-2009, 02:33 PM
thanks for posting the images:D, i think that's the coolest pose
i'm DEFINATELY gonna enter the final mini comp. it's only this year that i started entering competitions and i wanna join as many as i possibly can.:smug:
i got my tablet in december so my colouring has only reached this level recently. Are you on deviant art? i joined the good vs evil competition wascom has going there, the image i entered is the first one in my gallery (http://miycko.deviantart.com/gallery) . if not you can start a gallery there, it's free and you can upload as much stuff as you feel like. plus there's some pretty inspiring art there.
thanks for all the help and support man, i definately would not have come this far without it.
can't wait to start the mini comp. speaking of which i wonder when it's starting
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