[3ds max 2009] When I exit Figure Mode my Biped's neck and head resert or something

[ShinigamiKiba]

Here's the file, I'll post a megaupload link if you want later when I can
http://rapidshare.com/files/255826074/Low_poly_guy_w_biped.zip.html

I have this low poly guy I made like two weeks ago or so and now I decided to add a biped to him and see how things work, for my first riggin I'd say I'm doing alright, but whenever I exit Figure Mode to add steps or just exit it his neck and head snap back to their original positions while the rest of the biped stays rigged properly.

Here are some pics

Figure Mode on:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/Shinigami_Kiba/sad21321sad.png
Figure Mode off:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/Shinigami_Kiba/dsfsd32423fdgdf.png

As you can see here, he looks real bad in the chin outside figure mode because of this
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/Shinigami_Kiba/sadsad21321dsa.png

Everything else seems to work pretty well with the skeleton, here's a render of a minor rig i just did, everything stays like this even outside figure mode except for the neck and head
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/Shinigami_Kiba/render00213424.jpg

And yeah, I know I'm using auto generated UVs, I made custom ones myself, those didn't work all that great but these adaptive ones from ZBrush don't work with the normal and bump mapping perfectly either, but I'll get back to texturing once I get some basic knowledge of riggin first.

edit: I know that the way to go now is to use some CAT thing for animation/rigging, but I couldn't find it in 3ds max OR find any tutorials on how to use it, so I decided to stick to the simple biped thing for now since I had good beginner's tutorials on it and managed to find some really awesome ones on youtube too for once.

[Bob Marley]

Well I just tried to replicate your problem, but I didnt manage too, normally this thing happen the other way around, did you animate the biped while you where posing it???

If not sometimes Max has bugs, especially with Biped.

So what I think you should do, if you dont find a way to fix it, is just create another one and repose it, sometime its faster do redo something than actually trying to figure out the problem.

Good Luck

[ShinigamiKiba]

You think I should just drop the whole biped thing and learn rigging with CAT or is that too advanced for a beginner like me?
Can you link me to any good CAT tutorials dude?

edit: actually I'll stick to biped for now, can't find a 32bit version of cat and even if I did find it tutorials on this thing seem, at least for me, impossible to find online.

[ShinigamiKiba]

I uploaded my glitched file, I'll replace the biped with a new one, but before I do it'd be nice if someone checked it out, gave me some advice and maybe see if it really is a glitch or I did something wrong.
http://rapidshare.com/files/255826074/Low_poly_guy_w_biped.zip.html

[Bob Marley]

17Mg, sorry a bit too heavy for me right now, in 7 days I ll be able too.

About CAT, hmmmm, just google it and download it, then Instal it, and when its install you can check the tuts, they ll be in Max in the added ref, in the help column.

I dont think cat is that hard to learn, and at least you ll have more freedomw with your animation.

But doing a new biped, should take you like what 20 min or not even, but if it takes you a lot more well, it shouldnt be a bad idea to do it then, as more of them you ll do faster you ll get doing it, and then the skining as its a low poly, it shouldn t take that long either.

Good Luck, ow aswell you have another cool rig systme call "PuppetShop", its like cat but some people prefere it as it has stretchy bones, and it use more controllers, than selecting directly the bones.

[ShinigamiKiba]

Just tried making another biped, in a new document no mesh around it no nothing and the same thing happens, all changes stay the way they are but the head and neck ALWAYS snap back to their original position, the hell....

Check it out, figure mode on, the neck is rigged:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/Shinigami_Kiba/21321ewqe213.png

as soon as I exit figure mode, it snaps back to its original form:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/Shinigami_Kiba/sadsad21321.png

edit: I somewhat managed to bypass this and it actually did work once and I got a pretty cool walking animation out of it, but it only worked once.

I figured what the hell and tried copying the biped pose in figure mode and pasting it in the copypaste rollout with figure mode off, that actually works and I can make the biped retain it's position outside figure mode too.

Now, when i add footsteps and activate them it naps back, in fact now the whole biped snaps back to its original position, however, I was able to get it working correctly once and only once without it reverting back.

Adding a key form the keys rollout outside figure mode makes it so I can't add steps though, it disables the option so I can't have a key there it seems.

[poopipe]

If I understand this right....


go into figure mode
copy the character's pose
leave figure mode
turn animate on
apply the pose
select all bones
delete all keys
turn figure mode on
turn figure mode off

you should find the character is posed as he is in figure mode at this point

[ShinigamiKiba]

can you explain it in a little bit more detail, man? Like I'm not sure how to turn "animate" on do you mean the auto key button in the bottom bar? If you don't mind going into a little more detail for me with this it'd be great.

[poopipe]

sorry, I wasn't really reading it properly,,

when you use footsteps max basically destroys your existing pose and replaces it with default animation.

there are various methods to sort it out but they all have to be done after you've laid out your footsteps.

In this case I'd use a biped layer to rotate the neck to where you want it.

[ShinigamiKiba]

I see, and I thought I was doing something wrong, thanks a lot now at least I know why it does this, so it's normal and it's just the way this whole biped thing works, thanks guys.

How about CAT assuming I managed to find it? Does that reset the pose when you add footsteps to it and stuff? I did some reading on it and it seems really awesome, you get lots of default skeleton structures for all kinds of things, it really seems far superior than the biped and from what little i did manage to find and read on it it doesn't seem all that much different.

[ShinigamiKiba]

can someone please, link me to a tutorial, a manual on this since I definitely can't figure it out on my own and I spent literally an hour and a half searching for tutorials or anything at all on this particular problem to no avail, it's kind of getting annoying.

I don't get it, where do I look for info on this issue cause I don't understand it by myself.

[Bob Marley]

Ah, so all this snapping probleme, coz you were using the footstep mode.....pfffff, sorry my bad, i didnt anderstand the question well.

About CAT, if you got it install in Max you ll see a new toolbar at the top called CAT, click on it and you ll see "Autodesk Cat Help", aswell you can fin it in the "help" toolbar under additional help.

This helpers should get you started.

[ShinigamiKiba]

it's cool dude, I'm just really happy we managed to figure out it was max resetting the posture when you enter footsteps mode, btw I do have a broken CAT install on max ~_~ I didn't see what I was downloading cause i was too concerned with my anime torrents to pay attention and ended up installing a 64bit CAT version lol, now to find a 32bit one.

I know this may not seem like much to you guys, but just understanding a lil bit of what is going on is a lot to a noob like me and I'm pretty darn happy about it, I just wish i knew what books or tutorials to read to understand biped mechanics and footsteps better.

I read something about using the footsteps command being no good and you should make your own custom ones, which I'd be fine with if I knew any anatomy so I'll stick to automatic footsteps for now.

[ShinigamiKiba]

holy crap son, I actually got this thing up and running and I rendered it even :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqgwEX5DbDY&feature=channel_page

I know it sucks ass, but it's a start, I got the head and chin to stay in place and managed to animate the arms manually.

guys, thanks a ton

[Bob Marley]

AHAHA, well his walking : )

Yeah it looks like crap, but thats biped and mocap : )

http://www.autodesk.com/us/3dsmax/CAT-how-to-movies/index.html
http://download.autodesk.com/esd/3dsmax/cat-help-2010/index.html
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=12299737


Try this links I m sure you gone be pretty happy

[exsecutor]

Hey, I got the same problem from your original question. dosnt have anything to do with footsteps, it appears that if you rotate the neck while in figure mode, it pops back when you exit figure mode. I dont know what causes this or how to fix it but you can cheat it as I did. I made a new biped and copied all the poses over but the spine and neck then I placed the neck in a way that I would not have to rotate it... It not going to be too much fun animating like this but its a quick fix. If anyone knows what the real problem here is please post it, its easy to replicate. Just make a biped, enter figure mode, rotate the neck forward and exit figure mode.

[poopipe]

I've had similar things occuring recently without footsteps too now you mention it - a neck bone moving to above the head ffs!

It seems to be a stinky bug - the technique you outline above is the only fix I found.

at least it's not just me. :)