Vinsanity -- Gender Bender -- Princess of Persia

[VinsanityV20]

Alright fellow Threediers! Here's my low poly thread for this comp! My character? The Prince of Persia, so flipping the gender gives you the princess of persia - that's the easy part:)

I'm specifically going after the Prince from the Sands of Time trilogy. REALLY specifically, flipping either the one from Warrior Within or Two Thrones:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/wallpaper_prince_of_persia_warrior_.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/prince_of_persia_the_two_thrones_wa.jpg

Not sure where I'll put her yet. Something I learned back in the Dominance War was that I should play around with some different ideas: having them together means comparing and contrasting is much easier and you can pick better elements. Therefore I'm playing around with the design on a generic "lady" model:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/WIP1-2.jpg

You can see that I've only really gotten around to playing with hair styles. I'll come up with a few different costume designs though. Then actually do the character render and model sheet.

One final thing is that I want to cel shade this model when I'm done, in a nod to POP's more illustrated look. The newest POP, actually:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/prince-of-persia-20080527114810329_.jpg

Been looking up tutorials for that (like this one: http://cellshading.blogspot.com/2008/02/cell-shading-basics-10-20min.html), but if anybody knows of a great cel shading tutorial, please share! I can't seem to find a toon shading tutorial that lets you add a diffuse map, instead opting for just pure colors. Naturally, this is not what I'm looking to do. And since I've never done a toon shaded model before, I wanna play around with it loooooooong before I get to the texturing phase.

Well that's all for now. I hope to update again after the weekend, so y'know, I'll actually have some progress and stuff to show;)

Good luck to all!

EDIT: First Cel Shading test. Didn't play with too many variables, just wanted to see the Ink N' Paint filter in Max in action, and see if/where a diffuse map would go. Naturally, I don't like the inappropriate outlines, but whatever - it's just a first experimentation:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/brickwallcelshadetest1.jpg

[chris_solo]

HI Vinsanity! ;), good choice, I opt for the hairstyle 1 (less polys!) I also like the treatment 2d, I also decided the same treatment for me but I don't know yet..., so I would follow this thread :)

[dark_maggot]

Man the new Prince of Persia game was just beautiful. Cant wait to see what you come up with.

[goast666]

hair style one.
A - less polys.
B - Pixie cuts are cute
C - shorter hair = easier rig

[goast666]

oh yeah. If you're messing with cel shaders Shader FX 3.0 has a beautiful cel shader that lets you incorporate whatever you want.

Anyway, free plugin for Max 8+ That lets max's realtime shaders be node based!
http://www.lumonix.net/shaderfx.html
email download link at the bottom in the middle.

[VinsanityV20]

Finished four concepts - I'll put 'em up here and check back after the weekend to see critiques and comments:

First, a little splash page with a few reference pics for good measure:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/WIP2Comparison.jpg

and a little bigger, just the outfit concepts

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/CostumeDesigncopy.jpg
(hmmm, that should be bigger. Maybe photobucket just needs some time to refresh...)

Thanks for the comments so far, guys!
Chris_Solo and Goast: thanks for the hairstyle inputs. I definitely like the shorter hair, I'm just a little worried that she'll look a little generic that way; I mean, the short hair has been seen on Elika from the PS3/360 game, and Yuna from FFX and FFX-2. I DO like it though, so I guess I shouldn't worry about it. Thanks for the input!

Goast666: Thanks for the cel shader stuff! Gonna play around with that now! Though my first imipression is that it's too complicated for me; I HATES me some programming. Hate it in all it's forms. Hate it with a fiery passion:D But still - I'll definitely check this out!

For any and all visitors, keep the comments and input comin'! :D

[silverflame]

I'd say the second outfit with the shorter hair would look the best and be in keeping with the prince

[VinsanityV20]

Oh and I found these, guys:

http://www.davidgould.com/Illustrate/IllustrateForMax/Illustrate52.htm

http://www.cebas.com/

http://www.davidlanier3d.com/index.php/logiciels/shader-xtoon.html
(man, that was a hard one! Found the link to the forums on google and had to work my way back to the website, which was then in French. Man....)

Anyway, thanks Goast666 for the terminology. Googling "cel shading tuturial" didn't really net me anything worthy; it wasn't until I started searching "toon shader, 3ds max" that I started getting anything useful. I know it's a small thing, but help is help, so thanks again, mate;)

Chris_Solo: maybe you'll find something you like in some of these links too, man!

[BiG ToE-3DT]

you could, in theory do her in 5,000 tris with a 1024 map, if you wanted to and not get DQ'ed, but, the idea for these comps is to learn and more importantly, create art for your portfolio. So a more up to date character would do you more good than a lower tri count character.

[chris_solo]

much detailed work, I love this kind of concepts, good work man! for me, I prefer the one or four.

[Darchand]

I am envying your conceptual skills. Some how I have lost all of my books (damn moved and never moved again I need a job). Anyways I think this is a great character for this competition. I like the 3rd outfit looks cleaner yet has style.

[Darbruce]

the evil princess! done. and I vote for the same shaggy haircut as the evil prince as well, maybe a bit longer.

[VinsanityV20]

@BigToe: *grumble, grumble* - stupid western gaming world. Ignoring good low poly work and painting textures well and thinking only of excess. FINE, I'll do your stupid Xbox360-spec model, ThreedyTotal! You've won this round:)

Well, alrighty then. Let's see the critiques:
Outfit 1: I
Outfit 2: II (? - I'm not quite sure which one is the 'evil' princess, Darbs)
Outfit 3: I
Outfit 4: I

And as for the Hairstyles, I'm getting a vibe to go with the shorter style, or at least, no longer than the Prince's hair:)

Guess I'm looking at a Warrior Within-style Gender Bender here! Though I gotta admit, I'm gonna try and see if I can do a palette swap-kinda thing when this is all over, that would be neat:) But for now, I must focus! Going with the leather armor from Warrior Within (and for some reason, the movie that's based on Sands of Time) and shorter hair. Now, to the model sheet!

Thanks for the input guys! Silverflame, Darchand (thanks for the kind words, man!), Chris_Solo, Darbs, Goast666 - you guys rock! Love the comments!

[VinsanityV20]

Seriously though, you'd figure the industry would've hit it's apex lately. I mean, PS2, Gamecube and Xbox generation games could be gorgeous with the proper effort put into them, and they didn't take 5 years to do, 100+ man teams, multiple studios collaborating, and 15 million dollar budgets. Even though the iPhone, DS, PSP, PS2 and Wii are all viable platforms nowadays (and also certain PC games, like MMO's and In-Browser stuff, and downloadable titles for XBLA and PSN), why is it that low poly means 10k models and 2048 textures? Wouldn't you figure that low poly would mean the lower end of the spectrum in the games' industry?

>>>>>>Sorry, felt like ranting. I hate doing model sheets, and well - we've all procrastinated, haven't we? :D

[BiG ToE-3DT]

I see what your doing, anything other than modeling.

[Buzzy]

why is it that low poly means 10k models and 2048 textures?

Because "low-poly" is synonimous (sp?) with "realtime." If it can render in realtime, then it is considered low-poly.


Crapsville, PA huh? I'm from PA too. Go Pens.

[Joseph Pomeisl]

I see what your doing, anything other than modeling.

:D Oh, the Vinsanity.

[Darbruce]

I see what your doing, anything other than modeling.

You know him very well, it seems.

@ Vince - GET TO WORK, CUBA!

[VinsanityV20]

Fine, fine:) I'll get to *sigh* model sheet-ing up this chick. And eventually - maybe even modeling? It's a bold plan; maybe even bold enough to work...

[VinsanityV20]

Quick Update:

Like I said, I've been making a big stink over having to do the model sheet, so I'm falling a little behind. Plus there have been a lot of thunderstorms lately in Northeast PA, so I've been keeping my computer off a lot. Anyway, I had hoped to finish my model sheet(s) by tommorow, but I'll be lucky to just get the body model sheet done, which will include a more detailed hand and weapon orthographic views later (where the reference pics are currently). In the meantime, wanted to put this baby up now to keep my thread alive for the time being:)

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/WIP3-1.jpg

It's the Warrior Within version slightly modified, with the shorter pixie cut hair style. I found a lot of good reference, but I only put up these four shots for space reasons. Overall, I wanted a shorter, tougher appearance since most of the ladies in POP (Farah, Elika) are built like supermodels. Also, because of the circumstances surrounding Warrior Within, she has to be tough. Hence I turned to American Gladiator Season One winner, Jet:D Also, those two other random hot athletic chicks that google turned up:)* Lady from DMC 3/4 is here because her hairstyle is pretty much exactly what I want - maybe a little messier so it matches the Prince's appearance in WW, but it's pretty spot on overall.

Finally, her weapons will either be a Tulwar or a Pata. Can't decide.

As always, critiques and comments are welcome! Now, I gotta get back to work!

* - Apparently the one in the purple/pink sweats is Gina Carano (Crush from American Gladiators). I don't see it....

[TheSlingshot]

Wow, can't wait to see more.

From the tattoo to the armor, to the red cloth..everything is there and flipped on a female at perfection IMO. Awesome ^^

And something you probably won't forget, but just in case...piercing blue eyes.

Oh, and that's definitely not Gina Carano ;)

[goast666]

very nice. looking forward to the fullsheet

[southparx]

HI there Vinsanity,

good pick on the character - i was gonna do PoP myself since it was one of my favorite games of all time, played it since it was back in the SuperNES.

i agree with the Pixie haircut, and the face of that girl on the lower right is just real cute, just a suggestion though - you might wanna go easy with the musculature of your model later, might not need such defined abs and definitely easy on the veins since no matter how tomboy a Princess is, it's hard to imagine a ripped one

just make her toned (somewhere along with the purple karate uniform girl) and with cute face and well done armor,cloth and accessories - she's gonna kick some butt :)

looking forward for your progress

cheers,
andrew

[VinsanityV20]

Model Sheet's done!

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/ModelSheetBody.jpg

Now I have to start on and finish the model sheet for the head, which I'm basing off of this chick:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/aishwarya-rai-20090708041810728_640.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/aishwarya-rai.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/aishwarya_rai.jpg

She's an actress named Aishwarya Rai. I'm not quite sure what her ethnicity is (Indian, I think), but she's got the right kinda look I'm going for with my character. 'Cept for y'know, the haircut.

@TheSlingshot: Thanks a lot man! And I KNEW that wasn't Gina Carano - damn google!

@Goast666: You and me both brother;) Once the model sheet is done and I can just work in Max I'll be able to get a lot done much faster.

@Southparx: Thanks. Don't worry about how toned she is; I'm not going for a one-to-one look with Jet, she was just excellent reference. I'm definitely not going to add veins in arms, I can assure you all that:) I like that girl in the purple too, so if I can hit that (heh heh) I'll be happy. Plus, I don't even think a lot of muscles would look good with a toon shader on, anyway. And since I'm always convinced I won't win these things, I like to experiment - I'm GOING to toon shade this model when I'm done. I swear it!

Back to work now! Or checking out everybody else's stuff; whichever:) Keep the comments comin' guys!

[VinsanityV20]

Also, playing around with filters in Photoshop to look at different styles I could do the finished model as. This one was me trying to do a Valkyria Chronicles kind of look:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/styletest.jpg

[SR_6274]

I think your model sheet looks a lot better without the photoshop filters. Nice so far. Now let's see some 3d work :)

[Warlock 279]

Her legs are looking a little bit short. I measured her at about 6 and 1/2 heads tall, thats kinda on the squat side, especially for a lean athletic type. I think if you grabbed everything from the waist down and stretched it downwards till she was about 7 heads tall it'd look a bit better. My two cents anyway.

Outfits looking pretty good so far. Can't go wrong with black and red.

[Harbinger]

i hope it's not late to tell you, but she look a little short.

[SnappedStrings]

The only criticism I have is that her head seems a bit broad for her body, but that may just be the way that you drew it

Have you considered doing your final design in the style of the latest prince of persia? And by that, I mean, cell-shading

If it's not your thing, that's cool, but I think that cell shading would offer a lot to the character and make for a really nice look


Oh, another thing, I think the model you chose for the face is far too pretty, try to make the final character look a little more gritty. You have to remember, she lives in an arid region and is a battle hardened warrior princess

Looking good so far, keep it up

[bb0x]

Hey man looks nice :)

Hope you don't mind but I'm going to do a Princess of Persia also.. Tho' I'll be bending the one from the latest POP and not from the trilogy. So officially its a different character.

Anyway keep it up :)

[VinsanityV20]

:D Thanks for the comments, everyone. Though let me state this just to make it clear; I WANT her to be short. She's gotta be a little badass; like Vasquez from Aliens. I'm not interested in making a wussy little model - she wouldn't get past the INTRO to Warrior Within, and since I'm going with "bending" that Prince, than that's what I'd like to do:)

SR-6274: Yea, I don't even know why I did that;) Considering I don't have toon shading experience, I probably shouldn't even play with styles. I just need to get it done.

Warlock: Ah, the "heads" rule. While aware of that, I don't really use it that much. Though now that you mention it, isn't Wolverine, like, only 5 heads tall? I'm definitely shooting for something more along his build...just feminine. So if she looks short, thank you.

Harbinger: ditto:D

SnappedStrings: Never done a toon shaded character before, but I'm definitely going to try and do that with this model. Even though I'm bending a PS2 era Prince of Persia design, I figure it'll be a neat thing to do anyway. Plus, I want the experience/toon shaded character for my personal portfolio. Wish me luck!

bbOx: Can't wait to see yours man:) I was really torn on which direction to take her in - I love ALL the POP games, and I was actually leaning toward the Two Thrones version for a while. Let's both do the franchise proud, man!

Anyway, I JUST began the model in 3ds Max. Been hopping between this and another project, and since the due date got pushed back, I've felt no need to start until now. That being said, I DID finish the model sheet:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/FinalModelSheetCopy-1.jpg

And non-stylized:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/FinalModelSheet-1.jpg

High Res Link: http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/FinalModelSheet.jpg

I'll put up pics of my model on monday. I can model pretty fast by now, and I'm planning on spending all day tommorow doing as much of it as I can. Y'know, before I get sick and start playing Fat Princess:) That'll probably be around the time I need to start plane- or stripe-modeling the hair...

Now, time to check out other people's stuff! And of course, Comments and Criticism are totally welcome (though I will NOT make her taller and leaner:) ). I'm actually not too happy with how the face turned out, at least the side. Her nose bothers me a bit, but it needed to bigger than I usually draw them. No offense to anybody, but Indian chicks generally (emphasis on the general) don't have, like, button noses. They're a little big, and that's what I wanted to go for - I just hope she looks Indian/Persia enough...

[VinsanityV20]

And my weapon reference, for good measure:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/WeaponRef.jpg

And the choker/chainmail-y thing, so everyone will know that eventually, it will look like jewelry and not just lines:)

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/madonna_jet_choker.jpg

[strict9]

good backgrounds to start the model up...good stuff

[VinsanityV20]

Yea, it's Sunday night (technically monday morning) and there's no way I'm going to have a base model done to show. I'm just not feelin' it right now, and i hate being in this mood.

I've got the torso mostly blocked in, though the breasts aren't connected to it (I sculpt the torso from a block, than start the breast with a 10 sided poly, strip model outward from that, and connect it to the torso mesh once I've pushed the poly flow around to accomodate it). My modeling style generally has me hopping between the head, the body, the hands and any accessories at the same time anyway since I get bored so easily. Because of this lack of focus, everything looks really early instead of having just one done.

Later this week then.

[Darbruce]

looking sweet man, digging this a lot.

expect my model sheet to not be as detailed though. i haven't started for serious with the whole colors thing yet. BUT, I'm back, and really itching to get this fired up again.

btw, Florida Keys? they suck, big fat fried bull testicles.


oh, and the tulwar sucks. IT NEEDZ MOAR EVIL

[BiG ToE-3DT]

the fact that you used the words suck and testicles in the same sentence, your model better be good.

[chris_solo]

;)

[Darbruce]

well, the Keys do suck testicles, we have better beaches in Ohio...
but I accept your challenge nonetheless, sir.

[VinsanityV20]

Ugh - SUPER falling behind on my personal schedule. I just can't will myself to stay focused. Maybe it's the return of my dual monitor setup.

Useful for Unwrapping. Not so much when all you have to put up there is Youtube...

I'm not even sure if posting anything so early on will be useful. Regardless, here's some WIP's. If I go a few days without posting anything, I feel like I'm letting my thread die.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/3DTotal-GenderBender-WIP3.jpg

And a simple Ink N' Paint test, though I'm likely going to go with a trial version of Illustrate! for the final toon shade:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/InkNPaint.jpg

I personally feel that the poly flow is a little messier than what I've previously done, and I can tell with that Ink N Paint shader on that I gotta clean up some of the breast area. There's some weird shading going on.

But yea, I'm not much farther along than that currently. I really hope to get closed to finish or finished entirely by monday. With the model. Next week is for unwrapping.

[darknake]

pls go on update :>

[BiG ToE-3DT]

instead of having the poly flow of te shoulder meet in the triangle, have it flow down the arm, into the bicep. You might also want to thicken up the shoulder as well.

[L3XICON]

you certainly did some good work on the concept phases, it will be good to see how you get on with the low poly.

only suggestion at this stage is if you plan to do any sculpting or high polygon sub d stuff, be careful of the tri's on the shoulders and the breasts

good luck! :D

[VinsanityV20]

Thanks for the input, guys! It's always awesome whenever highly skilled guys drop some knowledge:D

Big Toe: I added another intersection there, to help form the bicep. Though I didn't actually remove anything that was there. I totally agree that the shoulder is too skinny. I plumped it out a bit so far, but I think I'm going back to tweak some of those verts tommorow.

L3XICON: Yea, thanks for the heads up man. I learned that lesson about the tris and topology translating to high poly sculpts in dominance war...and I learned it too late:) Lucky for the Princess here, I'm not going to sculpt anything. One, I don't want to. Two, I don't have anything currently installed on my comp to do it. And three, I don't think it's necessary with the toon shade I'm determined to do. Hopefully the model will still look great when I'm done - I realize that there aren't many, if there ARE any, other artists entering this who won't sculpt a high res model and pull a normal map for it. There's always CrazyBump for a last minute quick fix if I need it:D

Anyway, I finally made some headway with the modeling! Some pics:
Ink N' Paint test:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/InPtest.jpg

Max orthos:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/POPWIP6.jpg

All Max orthos:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/Wire.jpg

And my current plan for tweaking:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/ThePlan.jpg

I gots a lot of tweaking, and some straight up modeling, for tommorow to get done. I want to get the hand, head, and feet done entirely in addition to any tweaks to what's already been modeled. After this weekend, I just want to have to worry about accessories (the sash, the belts, the HAIR, etc.) and the weapons. Still, keep the feedback comin' guys!

[VinsanityV20]

Alright - the brunt of the modeling is complete:) Which is exactly where I wanted to be at the end of this weekend.

Wires:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/wires3.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/wires2.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/wires1.jpg

Toon Shade WIP:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/POPToonShadeWIP.jpg

What I need to do now is model some of those belts, form out the sash, and most importantly do the hair strips/whatever-you-call-bigger-hair-forms. Right now she's got meshsmooth turned on, so she's over the tri budget, but she falls well within the tri limit right now with just smoothing groups on. I just like it turned on:) Although, it does tend to make her limbs look skinnier than they are. Oh well - next posts I'll be sure to turn it off.

Once all that modeling is done, I'll give it one more pass for polish - stuff like model some folds in the pants and boots, I guess. That'll be the time to clean up anything based on feedback, too. But for now, I can walk away happy.

I'm going to go do work on my other projects for awhile now, so I won't be back on this till Thursday. In the meantime, keep the feedback comin' guys:) Speaking of you guys, it's time now for me to check out some other awesome stuff here in this comp...

[Joseph Pomeisl]

Looks like you got some NURMS smoothing going on, the hand shot points that way. I can't say 100%, but I don't think it's allowed. How would I know?...cus' some dude named Vitor reemed me out in my first comp - told me I was murdering game art. I'll never forget it, it was a good lesson.
Either way, keep it up. Other that the breasts, the waist would be the place to push the female characteristic. Maybe pulls the sides in abit, just above the hip.
Sorry, missed the bit where you said it was temporary...I don't read very often.

[BiG ToE-3DT]

the biggest thing for me, is the mouth. You did so well with the flow in the face, then you got to the lips and said, screw it.

I would go back into the face, delet out a few pollies from around the face and nose, and then try to poly by poly extrude from the lips to try and have the lips flow into the rest of the face alittle better.

[SnappedStrings]

So, looking at your project got me interested in playing around with the ink n paint and I came across a problem

I can't figure out a way to make opacity maps work with the Ink N Paint material. Maybe you know something I don't, but I thought it might be useful knowledge for you, if you intend on going forward

[VinsanityV20]

Alright - nice catch guys;) I thought I could get away with the sloppy poly flow in the face 'cuz the Ink N Paint shader didn't seem to care, but damned if I don't like being called on my sloppy modeling! Had a spare few minutes so I went in and did a better job:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/NewFaceWires.jpg

Joe Pomeisl: Yea I noticed that too. Though I don't really wanna focs on the hips too much since she's going to have a belt and a sash around that area. I'm going to wait on it, but if it looks weird later on, I'll fix it.
Btw, are you doing anything for this comp, man? Your D-War stuff was rad - I'd love it if you were involved in this comp too man! Yet, I'd feel like a goon if I didn't see your thread already:D

Big Toe: Like I said man, good catch. I don't mind going in to fix things of that nature, so it's cool when people push me to do so. Left to my own devices - clearly - I'll usually just say, "Eh - it's good enough (I'll just render it from a good angle)" :D Thanks for the feedback!

SnappedStrings: Hmmm. I hadn't even thought of that. I figured that the I wasn't going to use Ink N Paint in the end anyway, opting instead to use Illustrate! It's the plugin that Production I.G. uses to toon shade the Tachikomas in Ghost in the Shell (a personal fave anime of mine). It seems pretty flexible and powerful - check it out:

http://www.davidgould.com/Illustrate/IllustrateForMax/Illustrate53.htm

Effed around with it for a few minutes via the 30 day trial version, and I could do this with my D-War model:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/ArkIllustratetest.jpg

You'll notice that it doesn't seem to pick up normal maps when it toon shades stuff, so I'm assuming that the alpha map problem is still going to be there. So I'm thinking this -

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/prince-of-persia-20080527114810329_.jpg

I don't think Elika's hair is toon shaded. I'm thinking I'm just going to do a normal texture with normal alphas, and see how it looks. IF that doesn't work, I can PAINT the choker onto her neck, and paint it on her shoulders, and model the little dingly bobs that hang down from her shoulders and just have them sticking out of her shoulders. If that doesn't look good - well then, the choker's gone:) But I'll worry about that when the time comes.

Thanks for the heads up though, man!

Think I'll go poke around the other theads for a bit tonight. Then hop back onto unwrapping my other project tonight. I'll get back to this on Thursday.

[mies]

I desided to look up the work of the person that took that much time to help me out. and ofc u make a perfect argument but ur thread is like the best agrument since ur concept is spotles. :) keep up the great work!

and ehm ive played around with the toon shader once or twice. its fun! but i think ur work would be nicer withoud it. u get the see more details if u ask me but then again lets just see how it goes :) ur doing great keep it up!

[VinsanityV20]

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/Weapon_Chart.jpg

I need someone to pick a weapon for my character. I can't decide and it's the last thing I have to model. The easy choice would be to just grab the curved sword (probably the one with teeth) from the Prince cover art in Warrior Within. However, I combed through some weapon replica sites to try and get good reference for a sword of similar design and couldn't find any. However I did find a bunch of cool weapons, so now I'm torn. I'll wait for some reaction here before modeling it, cuz I gots to get to unwrapping this upcoming week...

Edit: Also, working out the design of the base:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/POPBaseDesign.jpg

And some pics of the final model:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/POPWIPFinished.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/POPWIP2.jpg

>>>>>That strip is going to be a generic chunk of hair, so I can copy it and add some extra volume to the pixie cut once it's texture is finished

And a simple rotation test:
http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/?action=view&current=popwiprotation.flv
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/th_popwiprotation.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/?action=view&current=popwiprotation.flv)
<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://s136.photobucket.com/flash/player.swf?file=http://vid136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/popwiprotation.flv"></embed>

Finally, I decided to test out a diffuse + cel shade, by cel shading a model I had previously done. Though, I couldn't do my D-War model; the 2084 texture kept crashing Max:( However, I gots plenty of models to draw on in times of need, so I turned to my PSP model "Booster Kid":

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/diffusecelshadetest.jpg

Looks cool huh? It seems pretty good for the Ink N Paint shader too - maybe I could hit Prince of Persia's look by tweaking that. For personal reference, here's another great site overviewing the possibilities with Max's native Ink N' Paint Shader:
http://www.3dmax-tutorials.com/Ink_n_Paint_Material.html

Hey guys - just checkin btw. I can start unwrapping her now right? I just have to collapse the stack back to an editable poly, attach the sword(s) when I'm done modeling them, and then hit it with another unwrap modifier, correct? I feel like it's been a hundred since the last time I've done this...

[BiG ToE-3DT]

a, do a. 2 of them.

[SR_6274]

Dual wielding A's would be cool to see. Just think of all the poses you could put her in with those :)

[VinsanityV20]

Well alright - I believe the "A's" have it:D She'll wield two Hellboy 2 swords, for no reason other than it's cool. I already hit her up with her Unwrapping modifier and a special texture I use for unwrapping, but I'll get to modeling the sword this week anyway. I just had to finally move onto unwrapping.

Also, thinking about the skinning/rigging - I figure I'll cheat this time. Cheat as in not rig the sash - it's not like these models are for animation anyway. I've noticed that occasionally people just Zbrush their models into their final pose - this is the same kinda thing, though I'll still put a biped in there. Just nothing for the sash. I think I would want to spline IK it anyway...'cept I don't know how to do that and can't find a tutorlal on how to do it that isn't a video. Maybe I'll do it later for kicks, or import it into Maya for practice rigging stuff in that program. But not for this comp - that sash will not move, so I hope no one cares:D

[BiG ToE-3DT]

I would just model the sash in a relaxed state, then just have to follow the leg as it moves.

Also, keep an eye on the overall look of your model, during the spin you posted, the model had a tendency to look a bit flat in the back area. To help with that, you can push in the area where the spine would be, see if that helps.

[VinsanityV20]

Damn you Toe! :D That's twice now you've called me on my laziness! Here i go thinking that, "They'll never see her back; I'll just render out her front for the comp" and you have to catch that too! At worst, I was just going to have her wear her swords strapped to her back so you couldn't really see any detail there. Curse your critical eyes, Toe! Curse them I say!

Consider it fixed - I'll get it before i post my next WIP's. I swear;) I'll also move some verts around and relax that sash, cuz what you said sounds like a pretty practical solution for a lazy modeler such as myself:D

SR_6274: Holy Sh*t! You can model something in 60 seconds!?! Jeez laweez - that's impressive! I didn't even know they had speed modeling comps that fast. Decent looking microwave too...

EDIT: Fixed the back. Even though it barely shows up with the Ink N' Paint shader on:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/backfixed.jpg. But yea, the rest of the back will remain untouched since she's wearing leather armor and definition - shoulder blades and stuff - shouldn't show through leather armor.

Consider the sash fixed too. I just won't do it till after it's textured:)

[SR_6274]

Haha, the only thing I can model in 60 seconds is a cube, and that's pushing it.

Gotta love Toe for catching stuff like that. Hopefully he doesn't look at my model too closely, or he could probablly write an entire book on mistakes lol.

[strict9]

, you can push in the area where the spine would be, see if that helps.

i think thats good advice...but in some one else his thread some one got told to take it out because it's a waste of time with low poly...now i'm confused..anyway i think spine indent is good.

[BiG ToE-3DT]

that was Marty's Wolverine, I think the spine he had was fine. Guess it all comes down to taste in the end.

SR_6274: is that a challenge?

[Warlock 279]

strict9 - Ya, that was me that suggested Marty taking some of those polys out of the spine. I may have been a bit hasty in doing so tho since he's sticking with the cell shaded look as opposed to the full compliment of maps. Same goes here, since the shader relies on the edges to get the right look, then you need the edges. If you're using a normal map etc, then chances are those edges along the spine, aren't going add much. Ultimately tho, like BigToe said, its personal preference.


Vins - BigTor's all over this like white on rice, follow his advice and you'll be fine. I think its looking pretty good. I still have my concerns about the legs being short, but they're looking better proportioned in 3d than they were on the character sheets, even if they are the same length.

[VinsanityV20]

Quick Update: Tri Count at 6411 (will probably hit 7000 when I copy the sword)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/Unwrap_and_sword.jpg

Did the unwrap, modeled the sword. Just gotta push the unwraps into a box formation and render out my UVW template (totally not going with 2084 btw. Can't stand Photoshop taking more than a minute to save and load). But that's for this weekend - time to turn my attention elsewhere.

[VinsanityV20]

Alright, I made a first pass at the unwrap. I never like this part - I alway just turn on Pandora, put on my headphones, and force myself to do it for a few hours. TurboUnwrap makes it better, but the whole process reminds me of Tetris, and I hate - and suck at - Tetris:) Here's what I got so far...

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/unwrapfirstpass.jpg

That middle clump of loosely overlapping forms - all hair:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/hairclumpunwrap.jpg

I can do that, right? I mean, I tried not to overlap things in general since - as I understand it - you can' t do that if you're going to sculpt a high res. And while I'm not going to do that for Princess Ashra here, I figure I should get in the habit anyway.

Plus, everytime I do overlap things, I end up having to do asymmetrical things anyway, and then I'm screwed. I know at least right now that I'm going to have to paint seperate textures for the arms for the Princess here, so I figured I should just leave other things open as well.

Oh, and I was wondering if anybody might have any tricks for unwrapping the chest that they might be willing to share?

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/boobsunwrap.jpg

I usually just split the torso into front and back and use a cylinder unwrap on each halve. A plane unwrap usually deforms the sides of the torso, and a pelt map usually deforms the whole thing. My way works fine for men, but not when you gotta take breasts into the equation.

Her unwrap around that area right now is pretty good and keeps deformation to a minimum, however, it buried the polys beneath the breast in the unwrap for the front of them, and there was nasty stretching going on 'em. I pulled the polys off separately as you can see, but that can't be the most eloquent solution to that. I was just wondering if anybody has a better method out there - I'm sure someone here does:)

Anyway, I think I can tighten things up, use up some more negative space with a second pass - I'm just gonna walk away from it now and give myself a day or two to get a fresh look at it...

[SR_6274]

Well, I'm unwrapping my model right now, and I just finished the body part last night. I used pelt mapping, and it came out pretty nice. After I put in the seams, I simulate the pelt mapping twice, then I used the relax tool. I put the settings to face, and the second option at .2. I know the biggest thing to do with pelt mapping, for me anyhow, is when you first hit the edit pelt seams button, to scale out the circle to it can pull out larger, and also rotate it so all your stretch lines are as straight as possible.

Ok, here are some screen shots of how I did mine.

[SR_6274]

.

[BiG ToE-3DT]

pelt mapping made unwrapping a $1000 hooker. You use it whenever you can.

But a side note. Be carefull with the hair, if you plan on any normals, or oppacity, or having the texture of the hair move in the same direction, the overlapping may cause issuse.

[tompa]

that's awesome... Maya lacks many useful settings in that area, I guess it does the job but I can't say it's user friendly (I use scripts mostly)...

Think I'll have to get myself a max installation.

[VinsanityV20]

Damn - SR_6274, you're the man! Thanks for putting in the effort there bro - that technique looks killer!

Unfortunately, the Pelt Mapper in Max 09 works a bit differently than the one I used previously in Max 9 32bit. And because of this I can't follow your process 1:1. Also because of this, I'm getting terrible results. Check this out:

1: I've got my seams all sorted out, so everything starting out is cool:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/Unwrappingproblem1.jpg

2. I bring up the Pelt Mapper and scale up the circle, then rotate it to straighten the lines:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/UnwrappingProblem2.jpg

3. I go to Commit and get a decent result. Like your unfinished result though, there's some clear distortion going on.
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/UnwrappingProblem3.jpg
>>>>>On a side note, this is where the differences with the pelt mapper start screwing me up. For one, there's no simulate anymore as far as I can tell. Another weird thing is that the Relax and Start Pelt buttons are now...constants. You literally have to hit the button twice - once to start the action, and then again to stop it. That means it just pulls forever until you stop it, instead of doing it in "steps" like I remember it before.

4. Anyway, to fix the distortion, I go to Relax. As soon as I hit the button though, it's like a frickin' Black Hole affects the UV!
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/UnwrappingProblem4.jpg

*Sigh* - Oh well, I still appreciate the effort man and I'm still working to figure out this new pelt mapper BS. Thanks for the advice. I hope I can fix this in a few days...

[gegrazion]

use headus Uv layout its amazing, realy easy, can unwrap a whole in like 10mins no problem, obviously i do spend a little longer getin it perfect but stil it doesnt take long and u get perfect results, check the site out http://www.uvlayout.com/ download a few of his tutorials and ull see what i mean, if my external harddrive wud work id put the file on rapidshare, so if u like ill see what i can do :)

[chris_solo]

agree with gegrazion, I use it too and I bought a license, it's to easy and there is a much videos on the site for explain it. ;)

keep the good work dude! I like the way you have taken.

[VinsanityV20]

Oh My God. It's like I'm seeing colors I've never seen before!

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/Wow.jpg

gegrazion, chris_solo; if I knew you in real life, I might have to hug you guys:) This thing is amazing. One of the ugliest, least friendly GUI's I've ever seen (still, the Revolution Editor for Wii is worse), but amazing nonetheless.

Jeez Laweez. This thing is a frickin' game changer! When I have money I'm gonna have to get a license and buy one. 200 bucks for hobbyist ain't a bad deal, but still i'm not working currently. This is amazing though, and I'm going to go crazy with the trial version.

Thanks a bunch! See, THIS is why these comps are so helpful. Having other talented artists drop some knowledge like that? Worth more than a year at school...

[SR_6274]

Sorry the pelt mapping didn't work for ya man, but glad you were able to get some info that is helping. I might have to check into that headus as well to check it out.

[mies]

This is one helpfull thread! i worked with pelt maping b4 but a hand unwrapped uvw paints easier. sometimes he deformes so much its hard to see what is what XD. cant wait to see these new uvw's painted ! and ima check that unwrap program out to :) sounds great!

[VinsanityV20]

Hey - does anybody out there know how to get Max 2009 to auto update materials when you make changes in Photoshop. It's not doing it by default like Max 9 used to, and it's a pain in the ass to manually unload(?) the PSD then reload it. I hate it - it's a big pain in the ass...

SR_6274: Dude - no sweat. The help is always appreciated:) That's what these comps are for, and as for me not being able to do your technique, I fully just hate Max 2009 a little more, that's all:) I actually wish I could use Max 9 s'more, but my crack doesn't work anymore. I had some problems reformatting my laptop lately, and as a result, I suppose some fragments of Max 9 still exist somewhere on my hard drive. As such, Max 9 won't install - it's weird. But I'm just trying to get used to Max 09; I really wish they wouldn't update these programs so much. It just seems like a greedy thing to do to me, honestly. But what do I know, I still consider myself a rookie (even though i've been doing this for...man, 5 years now? Damn - school flies by)

Mies: Dude - you gots to try headus uv layout. Thing'll change you life. That's what these comps are all about, man - learning from experience and your peers. That's why I love doin' 'em:)

Thanks for the comments and/or help so far everybody! This comp has already done wonders to my personal workflow here; it's awesome. And it's all thanks to Threedy's kickass community! Thanks guys;)

[gegrazion]

hey yh it is a fair price but why not get it for free and use torrents to get it? i no its looked down upon but no offense but for a hobbyist 99% of us cant afford maya, max etc so like every1 does it until u get pro. yh it does look propa crappy and the hotkeys are anoyin to remeber but its fast and easy :) keep up the good work and cant wait to see it textured

[mies]

ehm i think between the chin and the neck of ur model, there is some overlapping to? u might wanna check to be sure if its al right there..im working on my own unwrap atm with that new program. sofar seems to work with the edge cutting. not yet tried the flattening.

[chris_solo]

;)
see you bro !

[darknake]

Wow !

[VinsanityV20]

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/WIP14.jpg

[southparx]

Hi Vinsanity,

not sure if it's too late but her lips is kinda bothering me, it is too wide and slightly thin to make her attractive,

you might wanna google stuffs like "idealized beauty" or "ideal face" and such,

sorry i lost mine but i found one real quick and the content is quite similar

http://yestheyrefake.net/ideal_beauty.htm

basically what makes a girl beautiful is usually:
-somewhat narrow and oval facial shape
-big eyes
-narrow pointed nose
-full lips
-distance between eyes is one eyes BUT modify it to give it a touch extra distance
-lips edges should be fit somewhere aroung this distance but may give is a touch extra
-rounded oval jaw, no strong jaw
-you can find general proportion on that site link but it's not set in stone - analyze that Indian Bollywood actress and 'borrow' her features

Also I have a video from Zhang Lu, a kickass digital painter from Massive Black Shanghai and in it, Jason Manley - said that a female is always concious about her beauty from head to toe, so try giving her an attitude

like yours currently seem like she's a bit smiling - why does she smile? try to relate to her background story example if her parents are murdered and she seeks revenge, try giving her a bit of sorrow and angry eyes - well i just made this up real quick as an example but i think you'll get the idea

other than that, i really think your model is coming along nicely and she has a lot of potential and can be polished even better

good luck

[VinsanityV20]

Alright - with the exception of the hair texture, i've finished the first pass (emphasis on first - like I really mean to keep that comic shading on her midriff...) at Princess Ashra's texture here!

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/AshraDiffuse.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/WIPa.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/WIPc.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/WIPb.jpg

Man, it takes AWHILE to paint all that by hand. Jeez - why do I do this to myself:) Oh, and also, that text on the top of her head? Yea, I kinda forgot that Photoshop has a notepad function (my PSD has about a half dozen post-it notes on it with things I need to change). Anyway, I see some comments here since last I left, so time to check 'em out!

gegrazion: Well, I can't speak for everybody obviously, but I'm just trying to go straight here. I personally feel that there's nothing wrong with "acquiring" programs for free as long as you're just practicing. However, eventually, you gotta go professional. Once you realize that people's livelihood depends on these projects, it's kinda hard to keep stealing y'know? And while I only have my name in the credits to one game to date, I started to feel this way before I graduated from college. People work hard to deliver these things; they deserve to make money. But it's still ridiculously expensive - I had a professor tell me that there are whole studios out there (producing shovelware mostly) that use pirated software. When that's happening, you're too expensive 3DS Max! :D

Mies: Good catch man! I did cut some corners in my unwrap, simply because I found out about that headus uv layout thing too late, and also because I figured I could get away with it. I mean, how often to do you see the chin on your character? Though, you're right man - I screwed it up:D I also ran into some areas with some areas of the unwrap, but - and this is a good thing for any artist to know - if you can't spot anything wrong, than I'm not telling;)

Chris_Solo & DarkNake: Thanks!

SouthParx: Sweet tips man! The links too - awesome, awesome reference. Thanks for breaking things down in general so thoroughly.

I can't promise anything - though keep in mind the whole thing isn't finished yet and I can guarantee I will change the texture more - but nothing is set in stone. Hopefully I'll tighten up some of these areas soon. That's something I really hate about low poly modeling now that I've seen what people do with their fancy Zbrushes and stuff:) If they need to make some radical changes, they just do it. Whereas if you're going to do it with low poly modeling, it requires redoing chunks of that whole process - from what I can gather anyway. I still have to get ahold of Zbrush and start learning it...

That and, uh, DeepPaint 3D? Whatever lets you just paint on the model.

Thanks for the comments guys! Keep 'em coming. You know, you guys have been so helpful that I'm feeling pretty lazy:) I may not be the best there is, but I know a trick or two. So if anybody wants to know how I did anything, lemme know.

Now though, I think it's time to check out other people's stuff . I think I deserve a break...

[VinsanityV20]

Note to self:
Next time, I should eat up a few thousand more polys by modeling a lot of teh stuff I painted on her this time. And I should take more care around areas like the boots (the topology is too simple).

[SnappedStrings]

Vin, you've created this model with varying degrees of skill. What I mean by that, is that certain parts are splendid, nearly perfect, and others are lacking that same attention to detail. For example, the jewelry you've painted looks excellent, as does the texture of the armor.

However, the fingers lack the necessary geometry, they seem pointed like claws or something. Which I don't think was the intended effect. It might not be too late to go back in and add the necessary geometry

Also, you did something here that a lot of artists do. You overworked the cloth. I know that you were intending on painting the wrinkles to make it look worn and natural. However, you overpainted them. The pants and the cloth around the waist is so wrinkly, it loses a lot of it's credibility. The waist cloth is more believable, but the pants just seem too unnatural

Also, I'm curious about the skin texture... there's a sort of blotchiness to the skin painting (I know you said this is only the first pass) so I won't dwell on this too much.

Now, I know you're not finished with this and it's still WIP status, these are just some of my concerns at this point

This is really coming along fabulously!

[ryvick]

Vin, ur topology looks off. it might be angles that you took the screenshot at im not sure. the hands are a bit longer, the legs are a lil stumpy and the bottom half of the face is drooping.
otherwise really nice textures, the breasts and the torso is very well done (breasts are a huge issue that happen with a lot of ppl, including me :p ) the shoulder, the back & the weapon look amazing. good job.

[BiG ToE-3DT]

nows your chance to play around with light/shadow maps.

toss in a sky light (turn on cast shadows)
open the render to texture box
select your model
up the padding to like 4 or 6
under the add option, pick the maps you want.
select the size you want and location to save to
hit render.
walk away take a break, take a crap, make a baby.
come back,

open photoshop
open your texture
take your newly rendered maps into photoshop
apply them to your texture as their own layers(darken/multiply)
play with the oppacity if you want.
save it.
check the look in max.

[VinsanityV20]

Alright guys - thanks for the awesome feedback! I've got alot of changes to make to the actual model, so i'm working hard to polish off the texture. I know I can go back to working on the model if I collapse the stack in Max, then just throw another UVW modifier on it when I'm ready...or actually I don't think I need to do that again. But yea - I'm sorta kicking myself for being so lazy with my polys (the areas with the boots for example - WHY didn't I spend more polys there in the first place?); so I'll go in and cut in some more edge loops and things and refine the shape of some areas. However, that'll have to wait till after I'm done with the texture. My point is, I just wanna tackle things one at a time and try to stay focused.

Snapped Strings: Yea, I tend to overwork a lot of textures. However, my unwrap isn't the best for the pants and sash. So short of unwrapping and redoing whole sections, I'm not sure what exactly I can do with that. I tend to just do a bunch of those swirly shapes on the texture for the cloth because frankly, it reads really well with a lacking unwrap. I'll keep it in mind going forward though; maybe I can think of something to solve it...

However, from comments made so far, I am determined to:
- tweak the face and lips (make 'em plumper. The lips not the face - I gotta rework some geometry around the mouth some more to eliminate shadows and her expression)
- change the fingers (they are reading as pointy)
- make the feet bigger; and MAYBE - MAYBE -the legs. A little longer, at most
- make the hands smaller
- play around with the light/shadow map Toe suggested. Though I remember not having much success with that in D-War. Maybe this version of Max will like me better than Max 9 did.

And of course I'm still working on the texture. I've got a lot of little things to add and change and do just for that, as well as the alpha and spec maps. The alpha will be important cuz I've never done an alpha map for hair - I've always just kept the blocky forms there. As for the spec maps, well, that'll be important to make sure the leather reads as such.

So yea, gotta get back to work!

[VinsanityV20]

Huh...

Well, I just did the alpha and shine/specular maps for the Princess here. And I remembered that the main body, being rendered in Max's Ink N' Paint shader, can't take the shine map. I detached the Hair and Choker parts (in these pics though, I forgot to detach the form of hair floating by her head I'm going to use to bump up the volume of her hair), so they're fine. They won't have outlines, but whatever. Unless I'm mistaken, the Ink N Paint shader doesn't take other maps though, does it?

Here's what I got so far:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/AlphaDonePlusShine.jpg
On the left, she's got her alpha and her shine map turned on. It's subtle though, 'cuz I figured hair shouldn't be as shiny as futuristic jet fighters, which is what I've previously spec mapped:)

But yea; I tried dropping the shine map into the shader where it has an option for a texture by highlight:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/ShineMapProblem.jpg

The results were freakish. Imagine a nuclear barbie doll:( It goes all metallo in the viewport, but then in the renders it seems to just use the shine map AS the shine, so anything that comes up shiny is dark grey. AND it's shiny in the wrong in the places anyway; like it's just covered in plastic.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/ShineProbs.jpg

I'm not even going to bother with a light map unless I find out how to, or IF I can, use the other maps in conjunction with Ink N Paint. Illustrate! turns out to not be an option because, frankly, I can't get it to recognize the alphas either. It probably can, but I don't know how to do it. I'll just familiarize myself with Ink N Paint for this comp instead. Hey, learning is learning, right?

So I'm gonna give it a little while, research this issue, than just come back and tweak the model finally. Then I gotta skin it. This comp is almost over, and dammit I'm gonna finish!

EDIT: Oops. Forgot to do the alpha for the sash so it's all cut up and stuff:) Silly me. Gonna go correct that! And then, I'll go and volume up the hair with that extra piece...

[VinsanityV20]

Okay, I made all the tweaks I wanted to do. I finally budged and made her a little taller, as well as stretched out her feet as well so they're a little longer too. I cut in some extra geometry into the legs so her pants have some folds - the straight silhouette the legs had before was driving me crazy, especially since the Ink N Paint filter was making it very apparent. I scaled her hands down since they were looking too big, and also moved the verts around on the fingers to chub 'em up. They're blocky now, but they read a LOT better than those long, pointy claws that were previously her hands. I went in and turned on all the alphas, and also planted all the hair 'fins" to add volume to her 'do and break up the blocky silhouette. Did the same with the sash. Finally, I tweaked her face so that her lips are plumper and she's no longer smiling. But I didn't tweak her face too much - it's really hard to do that once your face is done. I shoulda just modeled it better:)

Anyway, pics:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/Headfix.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/Handfix.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/Ashralegfix.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/finalAshraHope.jpg
The Final (I hope) Princess of Persia is on the left, the last one I showed is on the right.

Thanks everyone for the comments and criticism! I gotta admit, I don't hate the final result;)

Oh, and final spec: Poly count = 3,941, Tri count = 7,379. Used more than I thought I was gonna, thanks to the Hair fins. I am all set to devote my last week of the comp to skinning this model and actually giving some attention to the render:D

EDIT: Y'know what? I can't do it. I'm gonna fix her face tommorow if it kills me...

[VinsanityV20]

Okay, I think I did it! I made her face more oval looking from the front, moved a bunch of verts around her lips to eliminate weird shadows, pushed out a chin a bit, and "unsmiled" her. I also went back in photoshop and desaturated her lips on the texture so it clashes less with her skin - she's a Warrior Princess anyway, she doesn't have time for lipstick:)

Old model is on the right, the newer (less ugly/much cuter) is on the left.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/Facefixed.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/facefix2.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/facefix3.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/CuteversusUg.jpg

Thanks to everyone who pointed out her face problems - it really helped me when I was collecting my thoughts and devising my "battle plan" as to how to fix her face. She looks much, MUCH better now! SouthParx: i'm looking at you, so thanks a lot man!

Overall, I'm super happy with the current (final?) result:D I think I've achieved a perfect blend of Warrior Within and Prince of Persia (Next Gen) with this model, both in terms of presentation and - in an odd way - in terms of skill. A weird mix between the cheap, boxy last gen quality of the model from Warrior Within and a much higher poly count model, though not as high or refined as the models, from POP. Ditto with the texture - some old school, lower res, painted on trickery mixed with a higher res texture overall. This whole thing turned out weirdly, perfectly, in between the two extremes...

Final Tri count is just under 7500. I cut in more edge loops around the leather on the arms to refine those shapes a bit and pull 'em off the skin a bit, like I did with the top of her boots, though it's more subtle on her arms.

[VinsanityV20]

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/POPTest1.png

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/POPTest2.png

^ Just a little something I whipped up whilst playing with the rigged model^

I'm going to do an animation or two next to make sure the rig is good. I went in vert-by-vert in areas where bending takes place, so the rig should be bulletproof. Yet you don't get to see it here:( So instead I'm going to do a quick animation next to check the rig and/or show it off - I've been playing a lot of Rise of the Kasai recently, and I think something along the lines of Tati's stealth kills would work very nicely for Princess Ashra here...

Also, I'm debating whether or not to finish my base, start a new model for the render, or try and paint a background. Not sure where I'll go from here, but I'm pretty much done, so I'm happy:)

[SR_6274]

Nice job Vin. She came out looking pretty good. I have never been a fan of the ink n paint shaders, but yours looks nice.

Grats on finishing. I'll be right behind ya in a day or two :)

[VinsanityV20]

Wow. Even though it's rough, that's the fastest I've ever animated anything:
http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/?action=view&current=AshraRigTestAnim1.flv

http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/?action=view&current=ashrarigtestanim2.flv

http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/?action=view&current=ashrarigtestanim3.flv

http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/?action=view&current=ashrarigtestanim3b.flv

The rig works great - the pants collapse right, as do the elbows. The shoulders are pretty good too. Naturally the Sash is pretty horrible since I didn't rig it, and I'll have to spline IK that if I am to do animations for my portfolio down the line, but who cares? It's good enough for some comp renders, right?:)

Gonna work on an environment quickly next...

[D-Chap]

Looks good Mr Vinsanity. She looks much better against a proper background.

Hopefully you get a chance to go in and do some more animations with her.

[Raul]

This is my fav entry!!! Awesome job dude!

[strict9]

just personal taiste, so please ingnore if it annoys you:
instead of having those hard cartoon shadows...would it be possible to paint some on like under her cheeks.....i know light can come from different angles but....i feel it the shading is bringing down your excellent hand painted stuff...also the hard black outlines around the silout really stick out the low poly parts
If you don't mind would you run a test and try a different version (not if your running out of time, maybe after the comp, i find playing with those settings is a big learning curve as well) sometimes i play with it just for fun and onces and a while i go woot...that looks better.
been keeping my eye on this model..hehehe if been learning with you long the way.
cheers for that

[VinsanityV20]

Well I've already submitted my finals, so I don't have anything final here to show:) Instead, I've got some stuff I ended up not using for my Winning pose:

No Toon shade:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/winningposenocelshade.png
I didn't go with this because I ended up putting a lot of post into my Winning pose entry. In the end what looked better against all the photoshop blend modes and filters was the Ink N Paint version of Princess Ashra. However, the Toon Shade version doesn't take lights at all, or spec maps/alpha maps - so lighting it was pointless. I wanted to see what the lights looked like, so I put on the normal diffuse here. It's actually still pretty good in normal mode, though her face definitely looks better in Ink N Paint...

Alt Winning Pose Sheet:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/PresentationWinning1-1.jpg
This alternate winning pose is the same resolution as all the others, and doesn't have a blend mode on it so it can...uh, blend with the dry ancient paper background. The main reason I decided not to use this is because it's so wide - the blend mode doesn't look good taking up the whole piece of paper that is the background, and the normal blend mode here has nice colors, but it's too wide. The winning pose is supposed to recall the cover to Warrior Within, which is narrowly aligned. The wide angle here doesn't cut it.

>>>>>>
SR_6274: Thanks for all the kind words man! I've seen your Snake Eyes and I can say that it's pretty rocking too. Glad I changed your mind a bit about the Ink N Paint - it sure was a fun thing to experiment with for this comp, and I really like how Ashra came out here:)

D-Chap:...wuh!?! Holy crap, Mr. Chapman actually shows up on 3DTotal!?! This is like, biblical or something - Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!;)

Thanks man. Don't spend too much time around here though, I know you're busy putting together some badass DS games over there!

Neto: Damn man, thanks a lot! Hope you like my final presentation stuff!

strict9: Well it definitely doesn't annoy me man, but yea, I didn't really have time to experiment with anything these last few days. I will say that i'm not happy with how subtle the face painted shadows came out - I've seen some excellent face textures, and mine is definitely not excellent. It looks fine for me personally here though because she's toon shaded. But yea, I'm not 100% happy with everything here - I don't think I've ever been with anything I've done; I'm still learning stuff, after all - but I am happy with how things turned out for this comp. I'll definitely keep that stuff in mind later though - I plan on re-rigging this model for animation purposes later on, so maybe I'll go in and tweak some texture stuff too. Never know;)

[chris_solo]

Hey Vinsanity!, you provided a great job! I see that your art is beginning to take shape!
good work man!!!!!!!!