SR_6274 - Gender Bender - Snake Eyes

[SR_6274]

Well, I'm gonna see if I can find time to do this one. Unfortunately I had a family emergency and wasn't able to complete the last one, although I might at a later date. Still a lot going on, but I'm at least gonna give this a shot to see if I can finish.

I'm planning on doing Snake Eyes from GI Joe. I have always loved GI Joe, and still have a lot of my original toys. Snake Eyes has always been one of my favorite characters, so I'll see what I can come up with.

Here are some of the references I will be using, and hopefully will have a concept sheet up soon.

[SR_6274]

Ok, here is the rough concept I will be going for. Any comments or critiques are more than welcome.

This is not my original art, just a reference pic I found and altered for my concept.

Breasts are going to be bigger to resemble a female better, but couldn't draw them in the way I wanted. (I suck at drawing by the way lol)

[guhhh]

i think the concept is toooooo male yet!!! get some refs in internet them draw over the picture....better way!

[Warlock 279]

Aye, guhhh is right. Find a couple pictures of female characters and do a paint over on that if that's how you're comfortable going about doing your ref. That's a very very masculine image you have now.

I scribbled over your ref a little as well, hopefully it'll give you some things to keep in mind once you get around to modeling. Narrower shoulders, narrower waist, more/smoother curves all over, smaller hands/feet, and in general just a slightly more slender build. Still a fairly muscled figure, but it'll read as female.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w303/Warlock279/Mini%20Tutorials/SR_6274-SnakeEyes-Paint_01.jpg

[dhin]

Full skintight padded leather always wins out over short-shorts and a belly shirt in my books.

If you are worried about drawing skills then just reference the baroness... (umm total badassed hotty there!) Put Snake-eyes helmet and visor and weapons on her body and you should almost have it.

[Edragon]

Awesome choice :) was thinking of doing Snake Eyes for my first Low Poly comp but I guess I need to rethink a gender bender. Can't wait to see how she comes out :haha:

[SR_6274]

Thanks guys. I know my concept still looks masculine atm, but I was mostly doing it to see what the outfit would look like. My drawing skills are pretty bad, but if I'm gonna really start to try doing character modeling, I need to at least practice more drawing.

When I start to model her, the proportions will definately be more feminine. Was going to use those female fitness champions as reference for the body. Strong, but without the muscles bulging out all over the place.

I am going to attempt to "draw" some better references, so hopefully have them up soon.

[SR_6274]

Ok, new concept. I know my drawing sucks, so don't laugh too hard lol. Tomorrow I will try to draw up a few more clothing options to see which one looks best.

What do you guys think?

[chris_solo]

me, I like it, I can see her in 3D.

[Agent-X]

Cool! Snake Eyes. This should be good too. :)

[SR_6274]

Been a while since I updated, so figured I should do so now lol. I'm still working on this, and came up with a few outfit concepts and a start of a base mesh. Let me know which outfit you guys like the most.

I kinda like the original outfit I drew up, but I know it probablly isn't the most stealthy for a ninja character. It is however the most revealing lol.

[H2olt]

I like the bottom right one. belly shirt seems a little sill for a ninja, but nothing wrong with showing a little leg. Maybe put fishnets on her in the texture phase..

[mel_danes]

The fully clothed version being the most direct translation is the best one.

If you want to do a revealing outfit but keep the fully clothed look try incorporating som elements from the game Nightshade.

http://ui01.gamespot.com/96/playstation2nightshade13_2.jpg

[guhhh]

muchh betterr!!! go onn

[SR_6274]

guhhh : Thanks man, I appreciate it.

mel_danes : Nice idea. I will try to draw up some more options with that kind of revealing mesh.

Ok, here is the basic body base mesh. Right now I'm sitting at 2506 tris, so still quite a bit left for accessories, which will be a lot for this char I believe. Let me know if you guys see any glaring mistakes with the body and proportions.

I will start modeling the accessories now to see where I fall within the tri limit, then it's off to z-brush :)

[SR_6274]

Update time. Started to block in the accessories. Still have to do the eye covering, sword, and guns. Sitting at about 5k tris right now, so still have quite a few left for other stuff :)

Comments and critiques are more than appreciated. Thanks.

[strict9]

would you mind pointing the boobs a bit more to the side it will give the upper body a bit more volume.....
it's a good turn out this competition

[Agent-X]

nice start, add more geometry at the elbows. Make your fingers, hands and feet round now.

[strict9]

agentX, you forgot to say "or else" behind your sentence ;)

[SR_6274]

Ok, I think this is the final low poly before sculpting. Currently sitting at 7k tris, so a few left over for additional items if needed at the end. I'm still not sure if the gun will be out of the holster or not, so I need to save some for additional detail if I decide to pose her like that.

I didn't want to know what the "or else" was, so I decided to take your guys advise. I turned her boobs a little more to the side and rounded out her fingers, and hands a little more. I also rounded out her boots more, and added a little more geometry to the elbow area.

Let me know if you guys see any major problems, or else I will go ahead and start the z-brush sculpting.

[xxxcubanxxx]

Hey, SR_6274 this is looking great man although I think something that could help this would be to add a bit more of definition in the elbow joint, make sure we can distinguish the forearm and arm apart from each other because right now it's looking like just one piece. Hope this helps, looking forward to more.

[Warlock 279]

Looks fine, I'm not seeing any major issues. Proportions look about right, not seeing any triangles and the poly distribution is pretty even, the rest is up to your sculpting skills, so have at it.

[SR_6274]

And there lies my problem lol. Thanks Warlock and xxxcubanxxx. I just saw there was no real definition in the arms, so I'm gonna fix that before starting on the sculpt, which to say is still very noobish. More updates soon.

[SR_6274]

I am starting to work on the sculpt. Very small update, but by updating it keeps me motivated. Just starting to bulk out the major forms for the body so far. Still lots to do, but this is the fun part lol.

Have not worked on the hands (gloves), or head at all. I want to do the parts around them first to make sure everthing blends together as it should.

[SR_6274]

Another small update. Worked on the body a little more. Some of the anatomy is over exaggerated because it's a body suit. Will start working on the accessories next.

Comments and critiques are more than welcome.

[Oniram]

can we see a wire for the update?

[SR_6274]

Well, its still in the z-brush stage, so I might have to re-topo after the sculpting phase, but I can show you the wire where it is at now. I'll post up them up later when I go home.

[Harbinger]

looking good dude. I think u should make an imprint of the lips, try to make more of the hour glass shape for the body, make her chin and jawbone a little more noticeable since it's skin tight leather. Look up Kunoichis :

http://www.gamemol.co.kr/g_image/goods_detail/ps2_kunoichi/ps2_kunoichi_s_4.jpg
http://fc06.deviantart.com/fs7/f/2006/344/a/2/Shimma_Kunoichi_by_GENZOMAN.jpg

[SR_6274]

Thanks for the comments guys.

I havn't worked on the head at all yet. Was waiting to do the head accessories, just to make sure everything lines up right. But I will definately look into making her figure a little more noticable. I didn't want to go with the over exaggerated figure anime style. More of a toned athlete type of body.

I'm not sure about the lips. I've seen some snake eyes with lips, and some without. I personally like the without style better. I just think it's a little weird to have this head covering that molds around the lips. I'll probablly do both to see which I like better when I start the head.

[chris_solo]

Hi bro!, good work, here's a picture that might help you for the anatomy because I think the anatomy is reviewed in the proportions ... in the area of the shoulders, chest ...

[Agent-X]

Yup, I agree with Chris Solo. The more anatomy reference you got the better.

[SR_6274]

chris_solo : I agree with what you said. I know the shoulders look a little weird, and I'll see if I can fix them. The anatomy isn't going to be 100% accurate since it is a body suit, and they usually show more exaggerated muscles. I'm trying to get that Batman body armor type look, and not just a skin tight leather outfit. Hopefully you understand what I mean.

Started working on the head and head accessories. I couldn't find any clear references of what the side round piece of the visor looks like, so I just came up with something myself. Unfortunately most of the references from the movie are dark. Nothing real clear, so I'm kinda taking stuff from everywhere to get that snake eyes look.

[SR_6274]

Another small update. Started working on the clothing and accessories. So far, I have done the belt (not pictured), boots, and a belt pouch. I hate the way the shoe laces look, but without modeling them out seperate, I don't know how you guys get them to look so good in z-brush. It will have to work for now, and maybe at the end I can rework them if I'm ahead of the deadline.

[southparx]

Hi SR,

i think the best solution is to model the shoe lace separate,

also regarding leather boots, it would be more realistic and interesting to have major folds and wrinkles on top of the base shape - perhaps you havent got to that part

keep us updated :)

[SR_6274]

Sorry southparx, what do you mean about the folds and wrinkles on top of the base shape?

I do agree about doing the laces separate, seems to be the best option.

[SR_6274]

I'm almost finished with the high poly. Finished all the accessories, and only have the sword, and the sheath to do. I also need to do the hands, as I havn't worked on them at all yet.

The other boot will be copied over, as well as the round piece for the visor. The belt pouch will be copied 5 more times for around the belt. Let me know what you guys think. I know it's not a winner, but I'm still learning z-brush and character modeling as a whole.

[BiG ToE-3DT]

I don't want you to start over, so we will work from this point.

first thing I see is the bicep, they seem a bit long, as well as the lower end of the shoulder. I think if you raise up the shoulder as well as the bicep the arm will look much better. Last thing is the legs, it seems like your going for some muscle definition, but it's all wrong. You should either remove it, or get some ref images of a muscluar womans leg. One more thing, the ****** seems pinched. I think you can just smooth that out and you should be fine.

[SR_6274]

I completely agree with you ToE. The whole shoulder and arm areas look way off, so I need to re-do them. I think when I start the hands, I'm gonna re-do those sections as well and hopefully get them looking right.

I was right. You can spot so much that is wrong, it should just be scrapped and started over lol. But that's why I do these things, so I can practice and hopefully get better :)

[BiG ToE-3DT]

the good news is, you can't get worse around here. We wont let you.

Your model is in a good place right now, no need to start over. Just make a few tweeks and your good.

[SR_6274]

Ok, I finished the sword and the sheath. I also re-worked the shoulder and arms to hopefully look a little better and in proportion now. Will work on re-doing the legs and start on the hands next.

Almost to the unwrapping stage hopefully lol.

[dark_maggot]

Looking good man I like how the abs look, it does give the feel of hi tech armor.

Since this is from ZBrush it looks like Orthographic View Screenshots, it would be cool to see it in proper perspective view.

Keep it up.

[SR_6274]

Well, I think I'm done with the sculpting, good or bad. Z-Brush is giving me problems when I go down subdivisions, then go back up to work on things. It is crashing and just giving me headaches.

I was able to re-do the legs, and I hope they look better now. It took me all night because of the z-brush issues, so it's gonna have to stay the way it is. I was also able to do the hands just a little, but I know they look like crap. I just don't have the time or the patience to spend 10 hours just trying to get a better shape because of crashes.

I am going to start on the unwrapping now, and hopefully I can fix some of the issues with the hands when it comes to the texturing phase. Next update will probably be a while until I get it all unwrapped (which I absolutely hate lol).

[VinsanityV20]

Hey SR_6274!

I sketched over your WIP to point out a few things:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/vinsanityv20/snakeeyesfixes.jpg

First of all, I noticed some people think the shoulders look weird. Personally, I just think they're not wide enough. However, you've gotten this far, so I don't think there's a lot you should do right now - keep it in mind next time, though;)

A big problem though? Tiny hands - watch your proportions there. Right now, they're Burger King size:) Man, this is the second time I've had an excuse to link this commercial in this comp:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu_bE7g2wqM

Finally, another useless thing since I checked out this thread so late, but here are pics of Momiji from Ninja Gaiden. Another example of a revealing, but well designed, ninja costume:
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt303/DRAGONHUESO/Ninja%20Gaiden%20Sigma%202/13.jpg

Other than that though, I gotta say, I like what I see. There are some flaws here, but overall, it's a pretty cool look at a female Snake Eyes:) Next time, I'll try and pop in a little sooner so what I have to say won't be so useless;) Keep it up, man!

[SR_6274]

Thanks Vinsanity, I appreciate the comments. Your right about the shoulder. I never really noticed why it looked a little off still, but what you said makes perfect sense.

I know the hands are screwed, but like I said z-brush won't let me make any more adjustments. I can't blame it all on z-brush, because I think I did model them small and out of proportion to begin with on the low poly, then the subdivisions of z-brush made them even smaller lol. After it's textured, I will try to make some corrections to the hands to make them more in scale.

[SR_6274]

Ok, the unwrapping is done. Once I've unwrapped it, I really noticed how many tris I could of saved with parts that just won't show. The really small parts on the map are those exact pieces. Nobody will ever see them, so their texture space is really small.

Will start working on texturing now.

[southparx]

Hi SR,

sorry for the late reply - this is an example of a leather boot -

http://keetsa.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/vegan-boots.jpg

notice how it has folds especially around joint areas where two different limbs meet and they bend towards different directions hence creating this "compressing folds"

since you are going to zb this is not hard to do and if you capture this in the low poly model - the silhouette is going to be much much more interesting

keep going buddy, you have a great model there and fixing things is the BEST learning process - kind of painful at times, but trust me there is no better way :hurt:

[gegrazion]

btw even tho its unwrapped u can stil add and cut polys, i stil think you need alot of work done to your model it doesnt really look interesting. you got plenty of time get ur forms and such things down b4 doing the trechnical things.

[SR_6274]

southparx - I see what you mean now. The boots I am doing are more of a combat boot, so you don't really have folds like that. They are usually pretty stiff with minor folds. This is more the style I'm going for.

http://www.veganline.com/xcap10-single-bigl.jpg

gegrazion - I'm trying to keep the snake eyes look, so I don't want to go adding a bunch of stuff just to make the silhouette and form stand out more. His (her) shape is pretty streamline.

Normal map test. Will start on the texturing next.

[Edragon]

Looking pretty sweet :). Only comment I can make is the boots look really really square near the toes. If they were meant to be that way then nevermind, but if they're combat boots like the JPEG then you might want to round them out.

[gegrazion]

hmmm wel the images uve uploaded show that he has a muscley frame, not straight. just becos ur trying to make her streamlined doesnt mean u cant add some cuvres and character, ninjas are streamlined but the not straight down everywhere. also he doesnt look grounded, from ur side pose looks like ur centre of gravity is off :)

[adena22]

I think the knees look a bit too round w/out the curvature that knees have going into the calf. I would recommend that you look into fitness models as references (you can do a search like that & get a ton of images). In the meantime, here is an example so you can see what I mean:

[SR_6274]

Think I'm done with texturing. Now I have to work on the lighting and keep playing with the spec map to make sure things show up. What do you guys think?

[SR_6274]

I'm still working on this, so figured it was time for an update. Got her rigged (which I absolutely hate doing) and am now trying out some poses. Here is the first of a couple I plan on doing to make my final shots. Feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks :)

[H2olt]

I know it's a freaking ninja so what i'm about to say might sound redundant, but it's still valid. Your texture looks too black. It could really benefit from some slight highlights with some color. Whether you do it in the diffuse of the specular map it could use some color in the highlights, the gray is just too dull. Try copying your diffuse to a second map that has a dark blue layer as an overlay and apply that as the specular and see where that gets you.

The pose is coming along well. I'd recommend deciding which foot she's got her weight on for that karate chop. Step back from your computer and stand up and really do the motion and try to stand like she's standing (i just did). It's uncomfortable. I think the weight should be over the forward foot.

I went ahead and put together some tips for posing that are especially relevant for females. you need to have the center of mass (usually just above the hips) above a stable footing. and the back should have some slight curve to it. I can't give very good specific suggestions, just that you should stand up, try it out and go from there.

Good luck and keep at it.

[SR_6274]

H2olt : I completely agree with you about too much gray. I was trying to stay true to snake eyes, but a little bit of color wouldn't hurt :) I have made a little blue tinge like you suggested in the spec color. Hopefully it isn't too much now. I also realized I had a map turned on that wasn't making the metal pieces look more like metal. Now the arm bands and head pieces stand out a little more as well.

I also fixed the pose a bit, and added another pose. C&C welcome.

[VinsanityV20]

Dude - it came out great! Sure, it's not perfect, but then again, how many of these things end up that way? I know for me, I get about 2/3 of the way through each comp before I kinda wanna quit, because I've learned so much and can see so many mistakes in my current model, y'know?:) Of course, I never do - learning to finish and polish what you've got is a great skill too - but seriously, since I'm still learning stuff, that's just way it goes. I think you know what I'm talking about - next time you model a chick, I bet her shoulders will be wider, right?;)

But still, a great looking female Snake Eyes man! Nice work! I would suggest though to play aorund with the poses more - Snake Eyes is a ninja after all. Look at some screenshots from Ninja Gaiden or something, and try to pose some of the most extreme moves there. You don't have to use 'em of course, but it never hurts to have the option. Plus - NINJAS man! They should be flipping around the air slicing robots in half!

(clearly I learned all I know about ninjas from SEGA, Capcom and Tecmo:) )

[SR_6274]

Hopefully this isn't against the rules, but I wanted to post my final pics here so I could make sure they have everything on them that needs to be there. This is the first low poly comp I have finished, so I don't want to get dq'd because of a mistake on the final images. If this is against the rules, I will happily delete this post.

Let me know what you guys think. I know it's not great, and stands no chance of winning, but this is only my second low poly char ever done. My DWIV entry was my first, and I think I have made improvements from that, and that's all I can hope for. Just keep getting better each try.

If no major changes, I'll go ahead and submit these as my final.

[dark_maggot]

Congrats on finishing, looks pretty good.

Cheers.

[H2olt]

HAHa, nice job on those final images. I think it looks a little weird that hers specialty is "gender bender". What I like to do is create a logo image that goes on every image that shows that it's got the gender bender challenge.

The other thing that's not required that i'd suggest is another rollover from dominance war and good practice in general. Three things I'd include in every image you submit for a comp(cept maybe the beauty if you want to keep it clean):
1. Name
2. Email or web address
3. Character name or competition title

Nice job fixing things up, it looks really great. Don't sell yourself short. You made major improvements since DW. Good luck in the finals.

[SR_6274]

Thanks for the replies guys. I have learned a lot since DW, and its all thanks to you guys. I know the "specialty" is a little weird, but that was my way of naming this piece. The LPC-30 is also for Low Poly Challenge 30 :)

I think I will definately add those things you said H2olt. It makes perfect sense to put them in there, so I will. After adding them, I'll go ahead and submit.

[Quintonius]

Nice work on the Snake Eyes man I really like it. You are definetly are going in the right direction as far as skill. Good Luck with the final judging.

[chris_solo]

really nice work & finish SR_6274 !!!! good progress throughout the work, I like your finals shots!!

[SR_6274]

Thanks for the comments guys. Practice makes perfect, so time to go keep practicing lol.

[SR_6274]

Ok, I know this challenge is over, but I was playing around in the Marmoset Engine and this is a render I came up with. I kinda like it myself, and think I will be putting a lot of my stuff in there :)

[H2olt]

Looking good man. I have totallly fallen in love with the marmoset engine too, but one thing it's really bad at is transparency. It seems their alpha map stuff is only good for masking and not making things slightly transparent.