southparx - Gender Bender - Female Marcus Fenix

[southparx]

Hi folks,

i'm excited to join the challenge to let myself learn as well as making friends,

the character i'm going to be doing will be Marcus Fenix, basically I've just watched Vitaly Bulgarov's
Gnomon DVD and really inspired to do something Gears-ish.

Here is my reference sheet and the middle is just quick sketch

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/referenceSheet-1.jpg

i'm going to add one two personal touches for example She is a rocket launcher personnel,
will have slight warpaint on her face and the bottom right picture is FF7 Cloud's shoulder pad which
i think is interesting and perhaps i will make one part of her armor some animal head shape.

other than that, i guess i will follow GoW design - not exact copy though coz i think my skill isnt there yet anyway haha

oh perhaps I should post the color schemes i did

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/colorschemeALL.jpg

I picked the Black/Orange since i think the other colors
arent very good, but please let me know if you think otherwise.

Lastly I made another version of Black/Orange and ended up choosing what i post in the first pic

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/compareOranges.jpg

Okay really excited to be participating, next is i'm going to draw some details - maybe a couple variations,
then onto making character sheets.
If you have any comments/critiques please do share

thanks in advance and have a nice day

~cheers,
andrew

[ryvick]

dont loose those big round discs on the chest armor. its like their signature armor style.

[H2olt]

yeah, and the football pads style of armor (built up around the neck)

like this kinda
http://api.ning.com/files/v8dtJqwDxMy9UfGIPICXaD4iJ3O*KpyKUugxGnrokKE_/18290410.jpeg

wow, it's hard to search for girls in football gear without drowning in porn.

Basically I'm just saying she should look more thick and armored. that's the essence of the gears of war look.

[goast666]

SHE CAN'T HAVE ANKLES!!! No one in Gears has one. They have a knee that goes right into toes. And a chest width that is grotesque...but for some reason you put armor on top and no one noticed. Hmm.

[southparx]

Hi guys,

many thanks for the tips and advice,

i will revise the design with those key points in mind

cheers,
andrew

[southparx]

Hi guys,

here's the updated design, the backpack i changed it to some car engine which i think has interesting pattern,

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/CONCEPT_detail.jpg

regarding the Ankles, after looking at my references I have to disagree with Ghost666,
the boots does have ankles and it seems the design of the armor has to have it otherwise the foot won't be able to bend

anyhoo, here's today's progress - i decided to not do the character sheet and go straight to sketching in zbrush, it's faster and i can sense the mass and general shape in three dimensional

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/sketch1-1.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/sketch2.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/sketch3.jpg


well in the concept sketch, i realized the mass of the armors arent bulky enough so it is done in the sculpt sketch.

please let me know if you guys have any input. next is to build each parts in polygon.. now thats gonna be a bit painful :max:

cheers,
andrew

[goast666]

Looking good so far. I was kidding about the ankles are your character. I was more just pointing out that there is a weird overall design to the gears characters that I find...well, weird.

Anyway, attached is marcus' foot. You find his ankle and I'll give you a taco.

[H2olt]

Very nice update. The overlapping details on the chest armor look great. The butt looks really tall and flat though. I'd try to fix those proportions before getting much farther into detailing. It'd also be great if the pads on the leg could have the bulky quality that the chest pads have. Right now they look very thin. But since they also look ragged I assume they're early WIP.

[TheSlingshot]

Starting to look pretty great ^^

I love to engine pattern you got there, I would only make it go a big higher on the part and it can almost look as the spinal cord of the armor.

And it looks a bit hard to stand on those boots ;) So I think you should do it pretty flat under the boots, like in the image attached by goast, they would look more massive I think and they would catch more the essence of Gears.

And...anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, cause i'm far from an expert, but I think the shoulders are a bit low, or that the head sticks out too high.


But other then that it looks really great, love gears characters and with an awesome texture I think it will look awesome in the end!

[lampshadehead]

Nice sculpting. I do gave to say however that it seems a bit silly for such a heavily armoured character to be wearing an armoured thong with her butt hanging out. I know it's par for the course, but it's been done many times. I can't imagine that it will lend much credibility to the character as a whole either.

[southparx]

hi guys,

first of all cheers to everyone for their thoughtful crits, wow you guys are really friendly here :)

goast666,
woah many thanks for the reference pic, i still need to find more reference pics and this one sure helps a lot

Hi H2olt,

thanks yeah will make the butt more pronouced since i guess it becomes flat with the masses of the armor surrounding it

regarding the armor pads on the legs, well i was a few hours after the chest area and i got lazy i guess so i just trace lines real quick,

the idea for the zbrush sketch sculpt is just to check the design and mass,
everything will be rebuilt in polygons, will overlap and thickness and so on,
but yeah thanks for the advice heads up

Hi TheSlingShot,

you're right about the neck, it is far too long, will keep that in mind.
the boots will be somewhat flat when done in polygons

Hi Lampshadehead,

well i was thinking the same way how her butt cheeks aren't guarded while the rest of her bodyparts are,
but i'll try some artistic liberty here, since i kinda think, if she is fully covered by huge armors and i will have her face war-painted, i'm a bit worried people won't be able to tell she's a female gender - hence the thong and ass

again many thanks for the crits guys and please keep them coming

-andrew

[VinsanityV20]

Man, Marcus Fenix. I would LOVE to be good enough to do a Gears of War character, but alas I'm just not that skilled with high res sculpting to live up to any of Epic's stuff yet. Plus, I don't currently have sculpting software installed my computer, but I digress.

You sir, clearly are talented enough to do the idea justice, and you certainly have worked fast so far. I gotta say though the bulkiness of the armor is causing some of her female form to get lost in the torso - compared to the concept, it's just too bulky. Plus I'm confused as to why the leg armor is so form fitting while the top is still bulky - I'd prefer it to remain consistent. And in this contest, I'd say go with whatever helps the character to more instantly read as female, so I'd like to see the form fitting armor personally.

It's looking phenomenal so far, and I'm definitely going to keep an eye on this thread during this comp;)

[SnappedStrings]

I agree with what Vinsanity was saying, I don't have the skill to sculpt hard metal surfaces (robots, armor, vehicles, etc.) in Zbrush. I do organics okay, but hard surfaces are a pain - looks like you're doing a great job with it though! Looking forward to seeing how this comes out.

H2olt, you're right, I never realized it but all the Gears have cankles

On a further note, that thong looks reaaaaally uncomfortable, haha. Put a little more meat on her buns and I think you'll really be in business

Keep up the great work!

[southparx]

Hi Vinsanity,

you're absolutely right regarding consistency,
and since Gears of Wars characteristics as stated earlier by H2olt is bulky,
i think i can't make the form fitting -

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/sketchFix1.jpg


and so i made the leg armors bulkier to match the upper body armors,
also fixed here and there like the length of neck, slightly proturude the buttocks more (might do more in polygon stage we'll see), etc etc

Hi SnappedStrings,

as per your suggestion, yeahh that thong... hmm..

i tried some hanging armor pad - like some saint seiya characters - but it doenst look 'badass' enough - made her look like masculin waitress with too much steroid haha

well it's cliche but i guess i'll keep the thong in place for now until i figure out something better,

so please keep suggestions coming guys

many thanks,
andrew

[southparx]

update: started modeling

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/boo1.jpg

still havent added shapes for the straps and other parts, hopefully can get it done tonight so i can move on to other bodypart

[goast666]

Looking good so far.

[VinsanityV20]

Nice! She looks a lot better with thicker leg armor - the consistency is there, and now she's bulky enough to really look like a COG. This model is lookin' awesome, man;)

[southparx]

HI Goast and Vinsanity,
thanks for the kind words

progress on the model - the arm part

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/arm1.jpg

havent put the details and the glove will have like honeycomb texture and some wrinkle, folds and whatnot - but i'm leaving it for later

next up im gonna do the body armor, should be fun :P

[SnappedStrings]

Everything looks nicely modeled, but the knees seem like they curve inward, I'm sure this won't be a problem once it comes time to pose/rig, but it might be something you should look at.

Other than that, keep it coming, looks good

[southparx]

Hi SnappedStrings,

thanks for noticing that, i will keep it in mind when doing the upper leg part

anyways i worked a bit on the chest area, still no detail and the 'vest' isnt modeled yet but i thought just post it to get some feedback from you guys

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/chest1.jpg

cheers,
andrew

[Agent-X]

Very nice work Southparx. Coming along nicely. by the looks of things.

[southparx]

Hi Agent-X,
thanks for the kind words, love your thread btw

some more progress
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/chest3.jpg

[rallyfanche]

this may sound like a small detail, and I know we all want to do fan service, but is thong armor really nessasary? There is nothing about this character, or armored about thongs. The challenge here is to maintain the characters sexuality, without making her look like an armor clad stripper. Things like heeled combat boots, or armor fitting that accentuates waist etc. Or maybe armor thats lighter because the character is female. But thongs? Maybe a rethink? Otherwise, so far, im really digging it!:-)

[southparx]

Hi Rallyfanche,
thanks for the constructive feedback,

yeahh due to the many feedback regarding thong, i've decided to let it go and either redesign or simply follow GoW original design since time is running tight and there are plenty of parts and detail to work on,

again many thanks to all who has spent their time thinking about the design - i really appreciate it and you guys have been really nice

cant wait for weekend where i can spend quality time working on this model

[xxxcubanxxx]

No thong!?!?!?!?!?! whaaaaaaaaaaat? :wall::wall::wall: keep going man this is looking great so far.

[southparx]

Hi xxxCubanxxx, sorry to dissapoint you :evil:

anyways, more progress on the modeling

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/chest4.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/proportion1.jpg

[VinsanityV20]

That's looking aces! I mean, it's really cool suit design right now - the tweaks you made based on feedback have really paid off. Can't wait to see more

What about the head, btw? Is she gonna look like the female COG in the Gears comic book?
http://i28.tinypic.com/zkkao8.jpg

Or are you somehow going to take Marcus Fenix's features and "womanize" them? Good luck if you go that way:)

Btw, speaking of the "Official" female COG design, I like your suit waaaaay better. Shows less skin - seems more practical and badass.

[southparx]

Hi Vinsanity,

man awesome pic thanks, i never knew GoW comics existed -
i've been out of the comics loop for ages ^^

in my initial idea, i was gonna go with the 'womanized' ver of Marcus,
short hair (not army cut - but shorter than the comic image,
with bandana - a bit of scar in her one side of the face - again like marcus,

but was a little worried if i will make her kind of masculine,

i haven't decided but thanks for the image,

you guys have been nothing but helpful :)

[southparx]

update

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/belt01.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/face1.jpg

gonna give her the scar on her left face :ugh:

and still modeling + detailing along the way..

if you have any crit please don't hesitate to let me know

thanks in advance,
andrew

[gegrazion]

loving the details but the face stil needs alot of work, its the most important part of a charater so u gota get it right or all ur hard work on the body will fall through, i think finding some reference for the face and spendin some time getin that done. good look :)

[southparx]

Hi Gregazion,

thanks for the comments,
and here's an update on the face

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/face2.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/bandana.jpg

a somewhat dramatic pose...

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/profile1.jpg

and this is the reason why she wears a bandana

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/hairdo.jpg

:smug: the hair right now is done on separate layer as a placeholder to see if the style works and it looks okay to me - i can just easily turn it off and make hair poly planes for the low poly

Okayy the major parts are completed now, only more detailing left and then doing the Bazooka and Base. while still on track i feel i'm wayyy too slow :(

[Agent-X]

Not bad bro, keep going and refining areas. You are doing just fine, we have plenty of time still, so you are right on track. Its coming along nicely.

[platypus_green]

It'll be interesting to see how well these high poly details hold out on the normal map. Looking really good currently.

[gegrazion]

your welcome mate but it still needs a tone of work. alot of the forms are off and it needs adressing, ive done some paint overs to hopefully help you out. you really need to look at reference at alll times. alot of peeps seem to think detailing there work will make it look better but without the forms and refercne it will look really bad. just take a day to gather some refercne and work on the head. choose a face to base you design of and get to work.

now ill tlk about the paintovers: i tried to show you how the skull would look underneath your model and it just doenst look rite, hopefully u can see your jaw needs some work.i understand what your trying to do with the eyes but the way uve modeled it your eyes want deform properly. eyelids fit round he eye, so it needs to follow the same shape as the eye, the inner part of your eye doesnt poke out when u look at it form a side veiw it stil wraps around the form. the ear needs lowering a little and the nose looks thin and the nostel looks strange. try think about the bonier features of the face and try make it look like there is fat,muscle,and bone instead of just lumps and curves. good look and i hope this helps :) p.s dont mean to sound harsh if i did i just think if u wnat to improve you need peeps to tell you this instead of just going wow amazing all he time so get bk to work and REFERENCE REFERNCE REFERNCE

[southparx]

Hi Gregazion,

many thanks for the paintover and thorough explanation,
you are far from being harsh - you're very helpful and i'm here to learn as much as making friends - so there is no way i'm offended -

sorry the other time i wasnt very clear on what you said but now i know what to do..

you're absoulutely right about the eyelids, the inner one i just realized its poking out not wrapping - the eyelid will be fixed,

regarding the jaw though - i was actually fighting a bit with it, i know it doesnt look correct in profile, but if i make it 'anatomically correct / squarer jaw' it makes her look much more masculine and in the end i decided to stylize it some,

i guess it doesnt work - well i'll spend another pass working on her basic features - don't worry all those details are in separate zb Layer so it's non desctructive :P

really appreciate your time critisizing, and i surely welcome any feedback be it constructive or even negative

cheers guys,
andrew

[gegrazion]

its ok mate but i definalty have been in your shoes not too long ago. i was doing a head model and i just cudnt get her jaw to look right but ill tell u how to do it, it shud only take 2mins honest :) . from the front profile it looks fine but from the side it doesnt so when you lower the jaw from te side profile itll make the front look too sqaure, so from the front veiw move the jawline in. its simple and just takes 5mins correcting it. also you do something i used to do which is change ur mind alot. if u sed wel im guna make it stylised cos u cant seem to get it to look right u shudnt think like dat, u need to set urslef a task and go for it and do not give up. remember when ur a 3d artist u cant just change ur mind mid workflow u gota do whatever that concept is so right down what u wnat ur character to look like eg its personality, his past life becos these are the things u need to portray in ur design. if shes been in a mass war for 20 years then u no shes guna look very aged and her armor guna look ****, maybe few bits kept together with tape or sumat. all im sayin is before u make somethng not only do u need a base design to work of but also need to study your character. even to this day im stil looking at videos of my character watchin how he moves even tho i understand him it gives me a fresh boost to carry on and try to portray that. i bet uve ast there in zbrush for hours and by the end of the day gone wtf i barely done owt i need to be faster. good look mate and i hope to see a mass improvment on the head soon :)

[VinsanityV20]

Oh man - this model so sweet every time I check in on it, SouthParx! Now, I'm not a super amazing artist, but to Gregrazion's critiques, I say give 'em a shot. Until anybody sees 'em, it's hard to really get a feel for how subtle tweaks will actually read on the mesh. But it all certainly sounds...sound:) Unless of course you're not going for 100% realism. The COGS, after all, are cartoonishly bulky, so it's not like they need to hold up next to pictures of Arnold Schwarzenegger or nothing. Conversely, a female COG shouldn't have to match 1:1 with, say, Angelina Jolie's face. However, like I said, it all sounds good, so give it a shot!

That's a lot of info , btw Gegrazion:) SouthParx ain't the only one whose learning something here on this thread:) But yea, duude, this is a beautfiul, BEAUTIFUL model so far. All the details - like the stuff you've recently shown for the belt -; you're really nailing 'em. Keep going - it's looking killer!

[southparx]

Hi guys,

thanks again for keep checking back the thread and giving me such constructive caring -

regarding the jaw, I have it fixed but alas i forgot to screencapture it but here's update on the detailing - i think i got the figure itself done and onto modeling the bazooka now..time is running thin :xx:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/Untitled-1-4.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/Untitled-2-1.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/Untitled-3-2.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/southparx/Untitled-4-1.jpg

i will post tomorrow the jaw area and hopefully done the bazooka then

cheers,
andrew

[SR_6274]

All the little details are great. I just hope it transfers over well with the normal maps.

[Tank[NL]]

indeed. im afraid the detail of the fabric is going to get lost in translation, if you will.

looks awesome btw, nice job

[dark_maggot]

Looking good, I specially like the globes texture detail. You are really giving the feeling of the original still some details on the face because it looks way too smooth right now.

Keep it up.

Cheers.

[Raul]

awesome job overall!

The only thing i want to point out is that the wrinkles on the head bandana need a little bit more contrast. other than that, man this looks awesome!

[southparx]

Hi Everybody,

i have to sadly say that i might not be able to finish this on time for the challenge deadline,

but i will keep working on her without rushing to meet the deadline and do my best for my portfolio piece.

thanks so much for everybody who has dropped a line or two and giving me nice words of encouragement, therefore i will finish her although not within the timeframe of the challenge.

i hope it's fine if i keep posting the update here even after Sept 6

[CLUB3000]

Just an idea from a felow artist, but I'd make the boots thicker from the side view, they look a little thin and straight, other that that it look great, keep it up!

*UPDATE*

Forget what I just said, I was on the first page and didn't realize there were 3 pages, my bad, the boots and everything else look great!