Unwrapping hi-poly mesh

[fake jake]

package --> 3ds max 2008

Hi,

I have modeled a wooden plank by
drawing a spline..
converting it to a poly...
did all sort of things like chamfer the edges...
added a noise modifier...
and finally added a mesh smooth with 2 iterations....

the mesh is really smooth and i kept appreciating my "skills" at first but now that i want to unwrap it....im having doubts about my workflow...cuz i know, a plank is not much of a big deal even with a hi poly count but how do we go about unwrapping more complicated objects with really hi poly counts in case one has to?

i tried to unwrap it with mesh smooth turned off but it messed up the unwrap when i turned mesh smooth back on

thnaks

[bobi]

It shouldn't mess up the unwrap once you add mesh smooth (or even better - turbo smooth (it's faster)). Just make sure your mesh or turbo smooth modifier goes on top of the Unwrap UVW modifier (not bellow).

Why unwraping the plank? Isn't UVW modifer (box) do the job?

[fake jake]

i havnt started unwrapping just finished with the modeling....this is exactly what i want to know.....is there n e thing wrong with my work flow....i mean i tend to model everything without thinking in terms of textures and suddenly i find that the foly count on some not so imp objs is way too much....this is the model......all tips are welcome so that i can start with unwrapping this thing.

[fake jake]

...

[bobi]

Oh man... that looks awesome. I really like it.
I wouldn't bother to unwrap everything in there.

For example, I would put the same (hi quality) map for the planks. Select them all, and add them UVW Map modifer, check box, and press fit. Now, the map would be streched at all planks ( and they will not look the same in boring repetetive way). After that, you can add dirt to that map within composite material to get some variations (or even make the all variations in PS before you apply the map).
For the barels you could just put cylindrical UVW map modifier... and so on.

Actually, I don't see any object here that needs to be unwraped.
(maybe that boat should be unwraped... if it is one object)

Keep it simple, that's good moto. :)

[fake jake]

i guess ill go ahead with box mapping the planks but like you said the texture will stretch and add that random aspect but istn stretching a bad thing....i mean up till now ive learnt is that we unwrap to get rid of unwanted stretching in the first place....this brings me to another question...do you think box mapping will show seams on the sides...that would be the smaller sides...perhaps i should just check it out for my self.....but you input is invaluable.

n e how....i am learning to texture n stuff so i wanted to know a few other things regarding maps...

now i know a diffuse is used for the surface appearence if you will...then we have the bump...pretty good....

i need to know what normals maps are used for and when are they really used?????

ive read a bit and from what im guessing i think they are used for low poly game models????

thanks

[bobi]

It will not be streched if you find a suitable map for the wood.
For example, when you select one set of your wood planks (first row), you will get surface in about 4 meters lenght, 1 meter with, and 0.05 meter height (I am just guessing acording your picture)... all you need is to find a map (or make one in Photoshop) that is 4:1 aspect ratio. For example 1000x250 resolution, or 2000x500 resolution. Just find a map that is in similar aspect ratio like surface of all your wood planks (when you watch them from above), and you will have not problems with streching.
I hope you understand me.
As for the seems. You're right, there will be seems, but they will be somewhere on the edges of the wood planks, I think it won't be noticable at all. After all... it's just couple of click, and you can check it out.

Normal maps are very similar to the bump maps, but they are better. Look at them, like extended bump map.
What is the difference?
Well, ordinary bump have just 2 values (black and white), and that value determine what is the height of the specific pixel (if pixel have color more towards the white, it will be higher, if have more towards the black it will be lower). It's the same with displacement.
Normal maps however have 3 values (height, with, lenght) and they are described in 3 colors (blue, green, red). Red color is for X axis, Green is for Y, and blue is for Z axis. So, normal bump will definitily give you better results then bump map, but from other part, it's harder to made.
However, both normal and bump map doesn't affect the geometry, and in many cases it's not wise to give them full strenght.

Hope that helps a little.

[fake jake]

ok so if i havnt understood you incorrectly....i should go for an aspect ratio that is close to the size of the planks mostly the length and width...and for the height the area is so small that nobody would be able to point out.

i guess ill post a draft when im done texturing....thatll help a bit.

and yes thank you for the a very nice explanation regarding maps it really helps...can you also clearify as to when are the two used. i have seen texture samples that at times have both bump/displacement and normal maps.

when do we prefer one over the other can you give me an example it would really help to understand cuz honestly i was of the view that normals maps are associated with the pros or the cool experts....then i read a little and found that its a bit about adding detail to low poly models during the render process as well???...perhaps somewhat like smoothing groups.....

i mean when do i decide which map to use or whether i use both....any industry standards or tips?

according to you normal maps give greater detail so...if i want to go for greater detail id prefer a normal map over the bump?

thanks again

[bobi]

Height area will be streched, but you can fix that by selecting the gizmo of the UVW map box modifer (look in the modifier stack), choose scale tool, select and strech your UVW box map on Z axis. If you turn your texture display in viewport you will see that you will fix the height mapping that way.
You will then only have seems, but I think that will not be noticible.

I am not expert, but as far as I know normal maps are mostly used in game industry where 3D artist can't allow themselfs to spare too many polygons for every hole or bump on the object, so they carefully make and use normal maps (they simply take maximum that software and hardware can achieve).
For standard 3D projects (that are not strictly game engine oriented) you don't have need to use normal map that often, simply because it's waste of time, when it's much faster that you copy your diffuse map into a bump slot and get the result you need.
For example, your scene.
If you want your barrel to look squash on some places, you could use normal map, and achieve some pretty great result, from the other side, normal map for wood plank would be a waste of time, because it will not be that noticible, and because you will already get very good result for the plank even with the ordinary bump map.

[poopipe]

I'd disagree with some of the things said tbh. It's personal experience and preference making me say that though so just put "in my opinion" in front of every sentence...

It's always more desirable to unwrap something properly if time allows - if for no other reason than that it helps avoid texture stretching.
You should get away with unwrapping under a mesh/turbo smooth in most cases. Sometimes you might need to put another unwrap on and tweak things

some examples..

- The ends of the planks will have been sawn so you'd see the cross-section of the grain, You'd need to at least apply different textures to the ends to achieve that but to avoid seams etc you're better off unwrapping properly.
- The upright posts will be the same
-All the panels, windows and doors will need dirt/scratches/rust etc. painting into their corners and over their surfaces - in order to avoid stretching etc you'd need to paint a map for each.

Normal maps are a good idea when used correctly. If you treat them like a bump map but better then things look good, if you try to create geometric detail with them things don't look good. The dented barrel example Bobi used is a case like this - I would model the dent, use a normal map to handle any deep scratches, bubbling paint or large areas of rust and finally a bump map for high frequency detail.

[Bob Marley]

I would have to go with poopipe on that one, especially with this models unwraping wont be a big issue, and shouldnt take you too much time, and at the end of the day it will look a lot better by having al this little details like dirt etc....

As I really like your rendered would you mind posting setup of your lighting (render setup, and light setup) if you have the time.
And what plugin did you use for the plants???

Keep it up.

[bobi]

Ok, I've made a quick example, similar to fake jake scene.

This is the scene that is maped just using ordinary UVW modifier (box)
I mean... it does have seams, but are they so noticible?

[poopipe]

frankly, yes.

Also you're not getting the cross section of the wood grain.

I know it's just a quick job and I know it could be made better but there's still that seam that you can't paint out easily unless you've unwrapped fully.


It's not always necessary to fully unwrap for sure but if you do it, things look better

[fake jake]

first off thank you all for your time
bob
poopipe
bob marley

:) appreciate the input

regarding maps i think i get it......preference is a matter of detail....lets say its a matter of modeling what is needed and adding details using normals further still using bumps.....and we may decide on that based on our requirements..same can be said about textures…had to hammer this in my head haha

heres another thing.....i have modelled four of these planks and instanced the rest with random rotation....what i had in mind was that i would unwrap, texture etc these four and the rest would get updated automatically...

now i instanced the planks with meshsmooth still in the stack and i didnt collapse these four into a single mesh....

i dont know if it is a problem bcuz all the planks dont seem to be instances anymore as they dont propogate any change made to the original four....plus they have thier individual meshsmooth modifiers in the stack which is kinda freaky.....

does this mean that "if we make instances without collapsing down the stack the relationship is gone????" bcuz logically if i had collapsed down the stack of the original planks the stack for the instances should have been collapsed too???

Bob Marley……yar im no expert, ive just started off with max to say the least…..what I did was that used a day light system found under “systems” and changed its settings to mr sun and mr sky respectively…..also in the environment I used exposure control and selected the preset for outdoor day time. As far as render settings go…….i simply used mental ray…..did nothing to the settings haha just switched on final gather and global illumination that’s it……this is all I know abt mental ray for now but like I said im learning, have started off with modeling a bit into textures; then got lights and render and animation etc on the list…….

cheers

[fake jake]

and yes i forgot i used gwivy for the ivy
http://www.guruware.at/main/ivy/index.html

.....started with ivy generator but id had scaling and positioning issues the biggest was with exporting importing objs back and forth plus i dont think it does well with high poly meshes.....i may be wrong but its my personal experience....the very good thing about gwivy is that it grows inside max so thats cool.....rest is just a matter of adding custom textures to the leaves.

[fake jake]

ok so i was just wondering....is the scheme shown in pic1 the best as far as unwrapping the planks go??

if we stick on a simple bitmap from side to side as shown in pic2 will that be the most effective way of doing it....

cuz im guessing seems that ive ticked in pic3 will be covered nicely but what abt the sides that make up the seems in pic4.

whats the way to get around that....any efficient method that has lesser seems to take care of.......are tilable textures an answer???

[poopipe]

your uv layout is fine. You'll want to weld it all together and relax it (choose "by face centers" in the relax options) to remove any distortion/stretching.

What you need to do is edit the texture so it fits to your layout.

In the case of these planks that's pretty simple you can just clone stuff around in photoshop and put a sawn-edge picture where the ends of the planks are.

base your bumps and normals on that image and you're away :D