View Full Version : Vinsanity - Army of One - Mystery Man
04-12-2009, 07:02 AM
So alright, I'd figure I'll jump in on another comp. Though unlike previous efforts, this is nothing I plan on finishing. I really just want the Zbrush practice, so if I can get a decent sculpt out of it, it'll be worth it:) Not a priority right now, but we'll see what happens.
Anyway, some scribbly little ideations:
Not really sure if I have a fave yet. Hell, I think I'll end up walking away from it for a few days and take another look for elements that stand out, then try and build a new guy with a combo of some visual things from these guys. Who knows? I'm in no rush...
Though I do know that I want to do a stylized, western comic-book looking character. Like Joe Madeiura or Jonboy Meyers. Darksiders looks awesome, so something along the lines of War from that game is my "in-an-ideal-world" target, should I finish.
Gonna be fun though!
EDIT: Here's the scanned in pencil sketches. They're so rough though, I just hit 'em with a filter to better focus on their silhouettes.
Oh and yup - that guy on the top right? No right arm. Stump goes straight into a modified riot shield. One Man Army has to focus on defense too, right?
04-12-2009, 08:09 AM
i like the bottom left...
04-12-2009, 08:17 AM
Good start. The bottom left and bottom middle look like the most promising so far though obviously it's too early to say which as the detail levels need to be ramped up :)
04-12-2009, 11:18 AM
nice concepts, I like bottom "Left" and Bottom "Middle"
04-12-2009, 05:25 PM
The general consensus seems to be with the one on the bottom left and I have to agree. It's got a very Ronin sort of feel to it. Also, the one on the top left has potential, but it's a bit too simplistic.
The idea of the stumpy arm/riot shield modification is a unique one, but a little too weird for my tastes. I think I just have a problem with amputation stuff lol
05-12-2009, 07:20 PM
I agree about going with the bottom left + bottom middle. I do like that stump idea though, it gives him a unique trait instead of being a generic soldier who's badass.
06-12-2009, 05:34 PM
nice concepts! ;)
06-12-2009, 08:39 PM
Nice concepts. I like bottom left and middle ones
07-12-2009, 01:17 AM
i like the bottom left as well. :D
07-12-2009, 02:06 AM
First off, thanks for all the feedback guys!
Second of all, I suppose I should come clean. I'm not going to pursue the bottom left one, frankly because it's unoriginal. Awhile ago I was skimming through the Digital Painting tutorials (It was either learn some Zbrush or learn some new Photoshopping skills) and found this tutorial here on 3DTotal:
The bottom left one must have been some subconscious remembering of that guy. Not gonna do it; it's hard y'know, since I'll always know it's just a ripoff of that guy. That being said, I've decided mostly to go with the middle bottom and bottom right - mix them together and add some other elements to them, and then try to do it in Joe Mad's style (or something similar). I just think Darksiders looks so cool, and his overly muscled style means that I'll have a lot to sculpt in Zbrush.
I'll try to get some new concept stuff up this week. Thanks for the feedback guys!
09-12-2009, 02:53 AM
I kind of like bottom right, the helmet shape is unique and I'd be interested to see him in more detail. Bottom left is cool, but I think bottom right could be more original.
09-12-2009, 06:52 AM
Thanks for the feedback, D-Chap;) That's not a helmet - it was a anime-esque huge tuft of hair (a la Roy Fokker from Robotech), but it doesn't matter. I too liked the silhouette it lent that character, but alas, I pretty much modified the bottom middle guy.
Another reason to not to do the bottom left one is the large cloth. I forgot I hate cloth:) For those of you that saw the Princess of Persia I did for the gender bender comp, you'll remember that she had a cloth wrapped around her waist. I didn't have the time to rig it, and I didn't want to rig it, so I ended up doing a really ****ty job with it. No way am I going to half-ass cloth again. This guy is about style and Zbrush detail - Darksiders is the goal! A model like that and I'll be happy.
Anyway, a WIP:
I'm going to take awhile with this guy because, while Zbrush is the goal - getting to the sculpting phase and getting that experience, in other words - I want to try some digital painting too. Hence the image on the second monitor. So it'll be awhile before I return and knock out a model sheet probably.
09-12-2009, 09:33 PM
Hmm, well it should be a helmet.
I find it interesting that Darksiders and Bayonetta launch on the same day- that will be one hell of an action overload. War from D-siders would be a good goal to shoot for, I def think you can hit that quality.
12-12-2009, 03:20 AM
Alright; here's a WIP from my digital painting. I'm taking a break painting it to do the model sheets this weekend. I COULD just knock out something with Polyspheres in Zbrush, than take the low poly model from that an import it into MAX, but I like the control of doing it from scratch in 3d studio.
Though, I DO need Zbrush practice. And I don't know exactly how the topology in Zbrush will end up...Maybe I'll knock something out quick in Zbrush so I can edit it in Max instead of building it from scratch. After all, this comp IS about learning for me, so...
Also, is anyone else distracted by some great games right now? Both Borderlands and Zelda: Spirit Tracks have an insane hold on my free time right now. And I'm also playing the highly addictive Might & Magic: Clash of Heroes for DS too, as well as forcing myself through Eternal Sonata on PS3 (well, forcing is too strong a word; I really like it, I just have a problem finishing RPG's...)
12-12-2009, 03:34 AM
concept is looking bad a$$, as for where to start I find it easier to start in zbrush and then go back and forth with parts of the model in between max and zbrush.
as for distraction, of course Borderlands is keeping me from doing what I'm supposed to be doing...lol...even more now with new dlc.
12-12-2009, 08:03 AM
Alright guys; here's my concept for my One Man Army. A bandit/marksman/melee expert named Vandal. He's a lucky guy, because someone stabbed him in the head once and it managed to not hit anything important. On the other hand, he's a little unlucky, because he stepped on a mine once and it blew off his right leg. However, he made the best with what life gave him - his prosthetic leg doubles as a one-shot rocket launcher.
I'm calling it done, cuz this is a 3D comp - not a 2D one. Still, I learned a lot about digital painting, and found a neat technique for it. I just currently don't have the patience to really finish it y'know?
xxxCubanxxx: Thanks man - I think I'm gonna do that with this comp. Again, just to get the experience, but also to be more flexible. I'm sure there are things that will change about my character design as things go on, and there was never a good way to implement radical changes before since it takes so long to do things in Max. Zbrush should help alleviate that. A lot. So I'm looking forward to changing up my work flow for this comp, even if it'll mean I won't finish.
And with those aforementioned games, it's almost a sure thing I WON'T finish this comp:D
12-12-2009, 10:28 AM
Looks damned good mate :)
12-12-2009, 03:44 PM
he has big hands, you know what they say about guys with big hands?
Nothing, you don't make fun of a guy with big hands.
15-12-2009, 08:46 PM
Hahaha - yea I know, Toe:) Since I was inspired by Joe Madeiura, and his characters typically have immense stylized hands, it was kinda unavoidable;)
Quick updates. I like that the Zspheres let you get a mesh so quickly, but I am really inexperienced using them. I'm not a huge fan of the form I was able to get, but I have more than enough Max know-how to move the verts around and detail areas in there. Which is exactly what I'll be doing this week...
I have ALOT to edit though. Especially those hands:) And a TON of extra props like the scarf, glove, weapons, etc. At least getting to this point was a ton faster than normally for me - no model sheets; who woulda thunk it?
Oh and seriously me - you gotta check out some other people's stuff for this comp...
D R E A M N T
15-12-2009, 10:57 PM
Your definitely moving now man.Keep up the good work.As for as the scarf goes, I would say to just:
- Create a spline and shape it around him the way you wish it to be.
- Once satisfied with your overall shape go to the splines modifier drop down list and select extrude.
- From there you are literally extruding a scarf from the line you just made.
I hope this made sense.If not I can make a small tutorial for you.
16-12-2009, 06:01 AM
Nah - that makes sense DreamNT:) I learned about the simple modifiers like Extrude so long ago that I usually forget about 'em, instead opting to do things the hard way with Editable Poly. Thanks for the tip man!
18-12-2009, 02:08 AM
Did the Boot, and I got a new hand done in Max (though I still have to play with the proportions to stylize it). Now I gotta move on and edit the body.
It's gonna be fun once these bits n' pieces are done because he's not symmetrical. I'm going to have to modify the hand even further for the gauntlet on his right hand, and his right leg will have to be radically different. I guess I should start on some weapons now too, huh? :D
EDIT: Well, I took some time to get a jump on that stuff.
Don't know how much I want to do without getting my character closer to finished though, since these props are close to 2,000 Tris currently. That's nearly a 5th of the total budget, and they're not cut up right for sculpting - they'll need more resolution still. Granted, I usually maintain a character budget of about 5k tris, so I should have plenty to use on props. Still though, I think this is all I'll do with props until after the actual character is more or less done.
D R E A M N T
18-12-2009, 02:12 AM
Looks like your pulling it all in man.Focus that CHAKRA and hit it up!
18-12-2009, 06:52 AM
I'd love to comment but all your pics are gone. Try imageshack maybe?
19-12-2009, 10:29 PM
Yea, sorry about that Joe:) I decided last night to organize my Photobucket account and chuck all my pics for this comp into their own album. So that screwed up all my links. It should be fixed now...
EDIT: Done with the body, for the most part.
Even managed to merge in what weapons I had been working on:) And I'm well under HALF the tri limit so far, which makes me happy - I'll be able to add on all the crap this guy needs - all the bands, belts, bullets, weapons, scarf, shoulder pad, etc. after all.
Though right now I really wanna finish the character stuff - namely the head (which will only have the nose and eyes modeled since his face is partially covered), the enormous gauntlet, and the rocket launcher leg.
And a better look:
Note to self: you effed up the elbow joint again! It's three edge loops in the back and ONE in the front - it should be two, stupid. Also, go back and adjust the verts along the top of the torso - it's way too flat. Just do it after you get the shoulder pad and scarf modeled so you don't waste effort. Also, you may wanna move some verts around the base of the torso - there's little resolution on the side, under the armpit...
List of assets left to model:
-head knife, broken off
-shoulder pad w/ horns
-right arm band
-torso leather bands
-normal belt w/ holster for SMG/pistol
-leather bands for left forearm
-belt for combat knives
-Rocket launcher prosthetic
Meh. That's another week's worth of stuff tops - I just gotta concentrate on getting his face done. That'll take me awhile.
EDIT: Moved those verts around and cleaned up the poly flow a bit, before i forgot...
20-12-2009, 03:40 PM
one suggestion that works for me every time I need a "conan" chest: do an extra edge loop that goes from the armpit all the way below the pectorals and shape 'em the way you prefer... as soon as youl sculpt them zBrush will move the base geometry according to the muscles you sculpted giving the best flow...
one other thing is not to collapse and merge all those verts in the bottom part of the pelvis...it will give you strange results while sculpting and not to mention if you wanna rig him for posing...
if you need more info on that part there is this link posted by somebody in the early days of this competition that is very clear and usefull http://www.pig-brain.com/tut02/tut02_01.htm
I can't credit who posted it first cuz I forgot in which thread it was...;)
20-12-2009, 04:47 PM
I like the weapon :)
21-12-2009, 03:02 AM
Thanks Tarik:) I wanted a huge, non-sword, dual handed blade weapon. Something that you could mess up a horse if you swung it around, y'know? Glad you like it.
Mr.fe: Thanks a lot for the tips man:) It's been awhile since I modeled a dude, and even then, this is the first 'roided out, shirtless guy I've done. I keep looking at the torso like there's some more edge loops I should put in, so thanks for pointing out some specifics there. And the pelvis tip too - areas like that are always tricky, so you're the man:D That link is definitely something I'll be keeping on my second screen when I revisit the body.
I'll be sure to get into those areas again and clean that stuff up, definitely - maybe not for my next update (I still wanna knock out the gaunlet, head, scarf and right leg). But I'll definitely get there before I bring this back into Zbrush - I don't want weird stuff going on when I get to sculpting.
The face is done, well not done, but done enough where I need it, since it's going to be hidden by the scarf thing:
And the gauntlet is modeled too:
This comp marks a neat little milestone for me! Every other comp I've done, I've had to look at the 3DTotal Joan of Arc tutorial as reference to do the head for my characters. This is the first time I remembered the method by myself:) It's never really gotten in the way before, just having it up for reference and looking back to it every now and then, but it's always made me feel like a noob modeler, even though I've been doing this for 4 years or so. So I think that's pretty cool. Of course, what's up there isn't perfect, but then again, this is more of a practice comp than a serious attempt to win for me. So it's more than good enough.
Oh, but me, don't forget; you didn't put any ears on that head yet:) Can't forget those...
21-12-2009, 08:47 AM
any time dude!
and keep on rocking for your entry is hella cool!
22-12-2009, 11:18 PM
Almost done now:)
Started cleaning up the pelvis topology on the torso, but mostly I finished the scarf, added the ear to the head, fixed the topology on the face so his eyes are no longer droopy and sad-looking, and am currently working on the rocket launcher leg. I WAS going to put a boot on it - kinda make it concealed - but I gotta admit I like what I'm seeing right now. It gives him a more unique silhouette to just have it out there, like a steampunkish peg-leg, y'know? I think I'm going to keep it this way.
At any rate, I really wanna finish this first pass tonight so I can give myself a few days to clean up the mesh, add resolution to the weapons, model some more weapons, etc. Then onto unwrapping, which should be fun. I actually like that part. And hopefully my headus uv layout (http://www.uvlayout.com/) trial is still working, 'cuz then it'll go by super quick. If not, no big deal, it'll just take me longer to do it in 3ds Max.
EDIT: Base Mesh Done!
Now that all the belts are on, you can't see nearly as much of the torso:( But rest assured, the topology is improved, and the resolution is more consistent now. I have Tris to burn; about 3k more, as a matter of fact (current tri count is 7023). I would spend them on more weapons, but he's pretty loaded up right now, and I'm happy with that. Maybe a rocket propelled grenade for his sawed off Rocket Launcher leg or something, but I'm pretty much done in Max. I will go in and give everything a quick look-over to make sure the resolution is consistent - this means cutting in more edges for all his weapons - but other than that, this is how he's going to look when I unwrap him and when I bring him into Zbrush.
Note: Goggles! Forgot the goggles on the top of the head. Must knock those out...
Youre making some exelent progres here! i love how u keep evolving this. its gonne be amazing i know it for sure!
25-12-2009, 05:34 AM
Well here's my final bit of progress before Christmas. Added in the goggles and also cut in more resolution for the weapons so they'll be good 2 go in Zbrush. I also got rid of some of the "plane-pulled belts" on the model, instead opting to just cut them into the body geometry to make a cleaner mesh overall. The ones replaced are the bands on the right upper arm, the left forearm, the belt holding the combat knife sheath and the belt holding the gun holster. The one on the left thigh, not the actual belt around the waist:
Final Poly count: 4274
Final Tri Count: 8275
Mies: Thanks for the compliments man:) I'll really try to finish in time for this comp - I may have entered this on a fluke (I let my good bud Darbruce have final say as to whether or not I was gonna enter this), but I really like this model and I want him to look good for my portfolio. Which means I have to finish him - AND Normal Map him. So I'm gonna do my best! Although to be honest, I'm hoping for one of 3DTotal's infamous Game Art Time Extensions:)
25-12-2009, 05:58 AM
Oh also, if anyone else wants to BREEZE through unwrapping, seriously consider using this awesome app:
My own trial died after the Gender Bender comp, so I had to re-download a demo here. I'll buy it in January once I have money. But for now, I need to blow through unwrapping this guy for this comp:) Check out the training videos here and you'll see how mindblowing this thing is, and how perfect it's unwrapping capabilities are...
27-12-2009, 03:06 AM
VinsanityV20 very good staff here ... now let see the details ...
go on like it ,,, waiting for more updates ... hope u`ll finish ur model till end ... it was 1 January , yes ?
27-12-2009, 07:27 AM
Wow dude! This is supercool go texturing like hell cuz i wanna see it done!
got a nice character coming along here. it has a nice cartoon edge but still real enough to take serious look. get 'er done! :)
30-12-2009, 05:47 AM
Oh man - this was a beast to unwrap. EVEN with Headus UV layout, and my 3DS max unwrapping tools (using a plugin). There's just so many props - what was I thinking!?! So next time, note to self;
a)no cloth on my character, 'cuz I don't wanna rig it
b)when you use Zbrush, remember to T-Pose the character. That was a stupid mistake...
c)no, or very few, props. Just focus on the character.
But whatever, the deed is done:) Using a 1536 x 1536 map, which is between 1024 and 2048. Frankly, I don't like using 2048's because my Photoshop chugs. But with this much crap I really can't afford to use a 1024. And yes, I realize there are some big negative spaces and gaps in the thing on the bottom half - I got lazy, alright:) I just wanted it to be done!
And of course, this means I made it! My own personal goal of getting this guy into Zbrush for practice! Here he is!
Can't wait to get my hands dirty on sculpting. Though I really question if I learned anything about a new workflow, for example - and if anyone can help me here, please do so - I don't understand how other people can seemingly go straight to sculpt. How do you unwrap things so fast!?!
Also, how would you bring in all the bits and pieces into Zbrush. I split up my guy into 4 groups - the main dude (shown there), a weapons group, a belts and armor group and then the gauntlet. I'll be importing them all into Zbrush one after each other, though I really question as to whether or not I should've just imported them all seperately and then once they were done make them all subtools? I know that doing them all in groups is probably going to throw off my symmetry stuff in Zbrush, so should I just go back and bring in everything seperately? I have no idea...
As always, comments and crits and super welcome:D And of course, Happy New Years, 3DTotal!
30-12-2009, 06:23 AM
first, your map size isn't a multiple of 2. Not a big deal in this comp as the rules say the max is 2048, but understand in the game world, your texture size will be frowned upon.
ok, now on to the questions: I can't help you.
I use mudbox, but here is what I do, I feel the low poly is the most important part, so I focus on that. When it's done and the unwrap is finished, knowing what my computer can and can't handle, I cut the model up. Exporting each part into mudbox on it's own. I sculpt and create the normals and any other maps I want. I do this for each part. Then, later take each individual map and layer them in photoshop to get on map. Then I texture it. I notice that the size of the map isn't an issue for my machine till the end. That's when I start overlaying didfferent textures and what not to try and make the hand painted texture pop.
Now, on to what others do. They jump right into sculpting, this allows them to be as creative as they want, not worrying about tricount, because at this stage, it doesn't matter. After they reach a point they like, they retopologize. Meaning, they build a low poly cage(mesh/model) over the hi poly sculpt. When that is complete and the tri count is where it needs to be, they unwrap mesh. From there they bake the normals and what have you.
for a first hand look, check this out, the guy the came in first place in the last Dom War Slipgate (http://www.vimeo.com/5738519), part 2 really gets into it.
31-12-2009, 02:37 AM
I know that stuff about the size Toe:) In the real world, I'd never do this, but I like to go easy on these comps - especially when there's no way in hell I will win against...well, people who finish:D
Thanks for the detailed response though Toe. After checking some other threads in greater detail, I definitely picked up some of that, but hearing it broken down so thoroughly really helps. Hell, I didn't even there was a retopological tool in Zbrush till this comp! I mean, yea I've only been using it for like a month and a half, but whatever - most of that was just learning the basics, then starting this comp.
Seriously man, this kinda stuff helps (especially the video link!). I'm looking to completely, from scratch, build up a "current gen" workflow. The Wii and PSP and iPhone can't be viable forever; I really gotta figure out how to do things for "normal", current consoles. Also, after working on one of those shovelware, minigame compilations for Wii, I never wanna do that again - I really would like to apply at a studio making an ACTUAL (i.e. 360/PS3) game when I next apply for a job. There are very few wii-centric studios in America doing anything interesting with it; that's a shame.
Thanks for the help man! Can't wait for another comp to put some of that to good use! In the meantime, still got some sculpting to do!
31-12-2009, 06:32 AM
I really love the style of your character, hopeing to see your entry in final, waiting for updates
31-12-2009, 10:28 AM
keep it up Vinsanity! great progress and hopeing to see your entry in final too ;)
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