BRIEF - All Terrain Armoured Vehicle.

[Tom-3DT]

http://forums.3dtotal.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151642&stc=1&d=1261143465

Welcome to the third MONTHLY CHALLENGE which are spread across the entire forum. This section is the Speed Modelling Section.


You're challenge if you choose to accept it is to make the best All Terrain Armoured Vehicle.


Due Date: 31st January

Idea: This vehicle is designed for harsh environments and meant to be capable of traversing all types of terrain, from snow and ice to desert and urban warzones. It should be able to inflict heavy damage to enemy positions from a distance as well as close range. It should be equally capable of defending itself from both close range infantry attacks and light artillery/mortar barrage.

Time Limit: 240 Mins, multiple entries are allowed at the WIP stage, but you can only submit one into the final judging.

Competition Restrictions:

Your entry must be specifically created for this challenge. Do not use any pieces from previous personal works. We are relying on your honesty here.

Prizes!!


Speed Modelling 1st Place

Digital Tutors (http://www.digitaltutors.com/) - Semi-Annual Membership worth - $225
3DTotal (http://shop.3dtotal.com/index.php?cPath=21) - Total Textures 19DVD set - worth $748
2dartist (http://shop.3dtotal.com/index.php?cPath=27_34) or 3dcreative (http://shop.3dtotal.com/index.php?cPath=27_35) digital magazine, 12 month subscription - worth $40
3DTotal (http://shop.3dtotal.com/index.php?cPath=22) - Any 3DTotal book - worth approx $40-$60
3DTotal (http://www.3dtotal.com) - t-shirt

* please note 3DTotal books are Digital Art Masters and Digital Painting Techniques Series only
**3DTotal t-shirts can be swapped for 3DTotal ebooks if you already own one

Speed Modelling 2nd Place

Eat3d (http://eat3d.com/) - Any DVD (download) - worth approx $60
Focal Press (http://www.focalpress.com/) - Any 2 books - worth approx $60-$100
3DTotal (http://shop.3dtotal.com/index.php?cPath=28) - Any 3 ebooks - worth approx $45
2dartist (http://shop.3dtotal.com/index.php?cPath=27_34) or 3dcreative (http://shop.3dtotal.com/index.php?cPath=27_35) digital magazine, 6 month subscription - worth $20
3DTotal (http://www.3dtotal.com/) - t-shirt

Speed Modelling 3rd Place
3DTotal (http://shop.3dtotal.com/index.php?cPath=28) - Any 1 ebook - worth $15
3DTotal (http://www.3dtotal.com/) - t-shirt

Speed Modelling 4th Place
3DTotal (http://www.3dtotal.com/) - t-shirt

Speed Modelling 5th Place
3DTotal (http://www.3dtotal.com/) - t-shirt

UPDATE - Submission Guidelines

1x Beauty shot of your vehicle. Feel free to post multiple angles of your model or just one big version on this page. You are free to do whatever post effects you like on this image. Be careful how you do this though, simple is often better. It’s up to you.

1x Wireframe of the model. Feel free to post multiple wireframe shots both screen grabbed and cell rendered, the more angles and good clear wireframes the better.

1x Clay render, a detailed clay render of the model created, again with as many angled shots as you like or one big render of the chariot.

All images should be no larger than 1024x1280 in a portrait or landscape format. All images must be at least larger than 800x600 or bigger to qualify. All images must be uploaded to the threedy severs via the attachment button in the advanced section of the thread page.

Time spent on the vehicle does not include texturing, lighting or rendering.

State your software of choice, and time spent somewhere on your entry. Any additional details such as lighting and texturing and rendering times are optional.
It is permissible to use different software to light and render your model if you so wish.

[Psycho Mantis]

guns and cannons allowed, or is it only armor?

[hammering3D]

very sweet,
nice subject very nice and the 4 hours for it.

[rocneasta]

http://forums.3dtotal.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151642&stc=1&d=1261143465


Time Limit: 240 Mins, multiple entries are allowed at the WIP stage, but you can only submit one into the final judging.

Hmm this really calls for the public C&C since they are giving final votes, and posting the final model as something you prefer not the audience is a recipe for failure

[Tarik2d]

Count me in for this, this topic sounds good for me :)

[JAPO]

Hello... so to sum it up:
- designed for harsh environments a
- capable of traversing all types of terrain, from snow and ice to desert and urban warzones.
- able to inflict heavy damage to enemy positions
- distance as well as close range
- should be equally capable of defending itself from both close range infantry attacks and light artillery/mortar barrage

hmmmm... I think I may need a bit of clarification, as only thing that would fit the description is Death Star Mk II (yes, the one with protected vent that blew up in Return of the Jedi) :D.
Anyways... I wanted to ask:
Question 1: How much invulnerable to all those attack the vehicle should be? I mean vehicle thats so armoured it can withstand artillery shelling will be very likely to susceptible to infantry attacks, and vice versa. Being effective against infantry, the vehicle should provide enough field of vision making it susceptible to area of effect damage, like shelling. So my question is... should the vehicle be able to withstand both (I do pity the infantry caught in friendly fire), or do you take vehicle that can withstand first, deploy into "soft target" position and be good against infantry as viable?
Question 2: You mentioned desert, urban, and ice. You didnt mention anything soft. Not even famous AT-AT has fins. Does it mean we can make vehicle thats not able to swim? (swamps are a bit of extreme, I am not seriously pushing it that far).
Question 3: This is sort of sequel to the surfaces question... does the vehicle have to be 100 percent efficient on all said surfaces? Again, whats efficient on snow is not as efficient on concrete. Vehicle that rules desert will be less efficient in urban area and vehicle from urban warfare may need... digging up from sand from time to time.

I am sorry for this kind of questions, but I would like to see if my idea is worth carrying on, or if I should scrap it (yes, vehicle of my choosing will drown in about 1,5m deep water, is susceptible to bogging down in snow, and does not perform admirably on sand. :)) Its still in consideration phase, so nothing set in stone and I may go different way in the end.

Thank you , Japo over and out :)

[Lord_doin]

if you get an answer to all these questions it could prove to be a challenging challenge, and I'm going to add one myself(althought maybe not participating).
- is it meant to be present of can it be futuristic?
- if future is allowed > does it have to have wheels?

[hammering3D]

The standard vehicle that is named All Terrain Armoured Vehicle. is the HUMMER (army version)

http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/middle_east/israel/wheeled_vehicle/legatus/Legatus_light_Tactical_Reconnaissance_all-terrain_armored_vehicle_elbit_systems_Israel_Israe li_640.jpg
http://www.modifiedpowerwheels.com/forum/userstuff/dpurlee/2009111163058_humvee.jpg
http://www.hummerpedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/800px-sam-hmmwv.jpg


Like ATV stand for All Terrain Vehicle and the classic ATV is that 4 wheels bike.

The thing that it must stand up for all that attacks and can replay back against all type of enemy is just an general thing, it dose't mean that it must be INDESTRUCTIBLE or ALL POWERFUL and run perfectly on all type of terrain.

The HUMMER from the images I post is perfect for the brief, it manage well all kind of terrain (asphalt, desert, hills, grass, etc), it is armored so stand well against infantry attack and light artillery attack cause he is nice armored. It can attack back the infantry with the machine guns on top of it, and attack well the distanced or even heavy enemy with rocket luncher placed on top of it ore having inside people with RPG's that stand out and shoot.

Of course this is a nice All Terrain Armoured Vehicle to, that can replay fire from infantry and artillery and can stand up against both.
http://www.hummerpedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/the-gladiator.jpg

This is just my opinion anyway!

PS: and it did't mentions in brief that it must go on water, and some muddy swamp terrain is ok for the hammer.

[Rich-3DT]

guns and cannons allowed, or is it only armor?

Both are allowed :)


Question 1: How much invulnerable to all those attack the vehicle should be? I mean vehicle thats so armoured it can withstand artillery shelling will be very likely to susceptible to infantry attacks, and vice versa. Being effective against infantry, the vehicle should provide enough field of vision making it susceptible to area of effect damage, like shelling. So my question is... should the vehicle be able to withstand both (I do pity the infantry caught in friendly fire), or do you take vehicle that can withstand first, deploy into "soft target" position and be good against infantry as viable?
Question 2: You mentioned desert, urban, and ice. You didnt mention anything soft. Not even famous AT-AT has fins. Does it mean we can make vehicle thats not able to swim? (swamps are a bit of extreme, I am not seriously pushing it that far).
Question 3: This is sort of sequel to the surfaces question... does the vehicle have to be 100 percent efficient on all said surfaces? Again, whats efficient on snow is not as efficient on concrete. Vehicle that rules desert will be less efficient in urban area and vehicle from urban warfare may need... digging up from sand from time to time.


1. The design should be able to withstand a limited amount of artillery fire and also be effective against infantry but off course no vehicle is 100%impregnable - it is left to your discretion but as long as it is not completely vulnerable to either then that is main thing ultimately.

2. It does not need to be amphibious or able to swim ;)

3. It does not need to be 100% efficient on all surfaces but at least able to be mobile on most within reason similar to a tank.

[JAPO]

similar to a tank.

Thank you, tank is exactly what I had in mind. That and mech. And possibly something that does not have a category yet. Not amphibious really freed my hands. Whew thanks :D

Ad lord doin... of course it does not have to have wheels. And I expect many mechs in this round. I may do one myself. Already see it in my head :D

[Lord_doin]

it is not so obvious from the description: it says "all terain armoured vehicle), can be tank-like, or if futuristic: floating.

[lilman_seb]

you have to think about the hole picture though... If you've been reading the other challenge threads it seems like they are going for a setting where it's after the destruction of the world or after armageddon so it might be futuristic but a lot of technology surly got destroyed or runs on new means of energy.

[bakuryu06]

where do we post our entries? IN a new thread in the root directory?

[Rich-3DT]

- is it meant to be present of can it be futuristic?
- if future is allowed > does it have to have wheels?

It can be futuristic or based more on present designs. The key thing is that it will be a new design and therefore may well look futuristic (or possibly a current day prototype) but nearly always the most plausible concepts reflect the real world and hence in this case your vehicle may look a little retro.
It does not have to have wheels.

My hope was to avoid not specifying every detail in order that there would be more scope for creativity and the opportunity for individuals to tailor their designs.

[JAPO]

The key thing is that it will be a new design and therefore may well look futuristic

I thought of modelling real life vehicle in real life situation. I guess that option is not available then, right?

[Rich-3DT]

My thoughts would be that if you want to model an existing vehicle then some level of creative modification would be interesting to integrate into design even if the overall structure is recognisable.
Again though there are no strict rules here, just that an original design may give your entry the edge over a replica - up to you.

[DE3MOHD]

Yeeah! I like this idea! destroy and chaos!

[JAPO]

My thoughts would be that if you want to model an existing vehicle then some level of creative modification would be interesting to integrate into design even if the overall structure is recognisable.
Again though there are no strict rules here, just that an original design may give your entry the edge over a replica - up to you.

Thank you. I thought it would be something like that, and I suspected my original idea was... way too real. It has been Panzer IV Ausf H. Interesting vehicle, well doable in 4 hours with some sick level of details. But it would be too real even with additions, as this particular tank had many additions.
And so... plan B :)

[orksbanner28]

Are we aloud to model warhammer 40k vehicles like the imperial baneblade. or leman russ tanks.

[greycz]

Is the 240mins including texturing and rendering besides modeling?

[Leonardo.A]

4 hours for the entire process, from modeling until the render?

[Rich-3DT]

Have just added an update below the original guidelines but in answer to your question the time limit is allocated to modelling only and does not include texturing or rendering.

[rodrigoCOX]

Can it be a walker like At-At?

[Rich-3DT]

There is no stipulation about how the vehicle is powered so if you wish to utilise mechanical legs then that is fine.

[DE3MOHD]

May this be not a car, but the robot for move? Rules allow this?

[t-rex]

well... How do I submit my work after I finish?
any thread to upload, e-mail... or I post the images in my thread of the contest?
thank you

[MightyReg]

Anyone can tell me if it has to be an original concept, or if it can be an already existing concept (example from a video game or a movie?)

[Rich-3DT]

May this be not a car, but the robot for move? Rules allow this?
It can be a car using wheels to move or be a robot - it is up to you.

well... How do I submit my work after I finish?
any thread to upload, e-mail... or I post the images in my thread of the contest?
thank you
Post your wips in your contest thread where others have done so.

Anyone can tell me if it has to be an original concept, or if it can be an already existing concept (example from a video game or a movie?)

Being original is best but if it is based upon an existing design then some level of originality is adviseable.

[sergov]

i have some questions

1) Is it allowed to modify finished models in Zbrush/Mudbox to create normal/displace/etc maps from it, or will it count as modelling not texturing ?

2) If I decide to put the model is some kind of environment that needs to be modelled, should i include the creation of environment in modelling time or could it be adressed to rendering/texturing stage ?

Thanx in advance :)

[ClassicGamer-3DT]

Off Topic Information About Why i've been away and why i'm back.

http://forums.3dtotal.com/showthread.php?p=764376#post764376

CG.

[Rich-3DT]

i have some questions

1) Is it allowed to modify finished models in Zbrush/Mudbox to create normal/displace/etc maps from it, or will it count as modelling not texturing ?

2) If I decide to put the model is some kind of environment that needs to be modelled, should i include the creation of environment in modelling time or could it be adressed to rendering/texturing stage ?


You can use Zbrush to create a normal map which will fall under texturing.

An environment is not part of the necessary requirements and so time spent on this will be attributed to the rendering /texturing stage.

[hammering3D]

You can use Zbrush to create a normal map which will fall under texturing.

An environment is not part of the necessary requirements and so time spent on this will be attributed to the rendering /texturing stage.


What ? normal map fall under texturing ? with no time limit ? I don't think this is the spirit of hi poly speed modeling challenge.
I think U should clarify this because is a new rule that I think all of us old speed molders did't take in account and personally I hate to be true cause then this will become a kind of sculpting or low poly challenge, and those challenges exist already.

[Rich-3DT]

The nature of the challenge centers around a time limit which does not include lighting, rendering or texturing.
This is why I believe that any normal mapping should fall under texturing which is an optional aspect.
The finished submission requires three components: final render, clay render and wireframe. This means that if a normal map and high poly model are used they will fall under the banner of texturing and hence the lower poly version will still need to be submitted and will be the mesh that counts ultimately.

Likewise if a nice texture is created, it is not a criteria, meaning that the essence of creating a good mesh within the time limit is still the focus of the exercise.

I hope this makes sense but I am open to any feedback.
I believe that by including normal mapping under texturing it would still keep the essence of speed modeling at the heart of the challenge.

[hammering3D]

I understood, tnx for the fast replay, just I think it should be specify somewhere in the rules because I am sure many of us don't know this thing, because in the old speed modeling system the normal maps where count in modeling time since they alter the model.

[JAPO]

Concerning normal maps outside modelling time... I think you are opening Pandoras box here. The reasons are:

- This is speed modelling challenge
- Beauty render is compulsory
- Public voting decides who will go for final voting

With this I want to say, that modelling aspect of the competition may be lost in low poly models with awesome sculpted normal maps. I believe that was reason for moving normal maps to modelling time in original rules.

I believe that with normal maps you can pretty much lift the time limit and allow sculpting, becasue normal maps allow you way around both. You can fully "sculpt" model with normal map, and you can add all the geometry you didnt manage to make in time with it.

Its your call, but if normal maps are allowed, we may expect totally new type of entries next month. Well you can deffo expect that from me (unless its organic theme, as I dont have sculpting software yet). But it wont be speed modelling challenge any more. :dunno:

Oh dont think I am putting a foot on brake of evolution here... if memory serves well, I was first (or at least among top ten if not right away first) to use normal maps in speed modelling competition back in the old days after "Doom 3" was released. :D
Before normal maps were outlawed. Its time consuming, but the results...

Anyways your call. Either "see you in speed modellign challenge" or "see you in high poly modelling challenge" :D

[rocneasta]

my input in this is simple - i've never done normal maps nor applied any to the model. hence i won't be a part of SMC's until i can grasp and learn it enough to be able to compete with the rest.

The point behind speed modeling is really modeling, not working your way around with textures. Yes beauty render is mandatory now, but as we've seen you can poly paint the model, or just shade it, and it will still be considered a beauty render - wihout the textures.

Again this is not because poor little roc hasn't got a clue in the 3D world. It's because i came here with the knowledge of Autocad in which no one worked and isn't working up to this date. I managed to do some good models and was judged by them. I moved to max and continued on my route.

What i'm saying is that implementing normal maps in texturing time will keep new members and participants in a position where they cannot express them selves and have little to gain learning wise. It's easier to explain the modeling method than going through the process of concepting, creating and applying normal maps to basically a base mesh!

[rocneasta]

You can use Zbrush to create a normal map which will fall under texturing.

An environment is not part of the necessary requirements and so time spent on this will be attributed to the rendering /texturing stage.

If my memory serves me right and it does, environment modeling fell under modeling time not texturing...

Again this is not because judged can't differentiate between environment and models, it's because the PUBLIC vote.

Let's take for example the following scenario

- i spend 4 hours in modeling the theme of the challenge
- i spend days on creating textures, applying them to the model or even creating normal maps to enhance or fully define areas that are lacking in details etc
- i spend another few days on creating environment to fully complement the model
- i finish the whole process by texturing and lighting the environment

Ofc you may think well the prizes are huge, and they are. You have a whole month to complete the work, and we do. But this is speed modeling challenge. Point of it it's to bring your concept across in the less possible time. I personally liked it better with time limit of 60 or 120 min, but i will adapt to 3 or 4 hours, or whichever time frame comes next. In addition making a clay render can be done in minutes and the final SPEED modeling project is done - for presentation, getting the point/idea across etc.

Modeling + normal maps and environment modeling that does not fall under modeling time, is surely a way to have beautiful results and stunning art work, but in my humble opinion it's a PROJECT not a SPEED challenge

[bakuryu06]

I think we should KEEP ZBRUSH TIME included in the 240minute time limit. If it were allowed then anyone can spend 29days on a super high poly MODEL and then simply normal map it or not for that matter since there is no POLY count.

This is a weird loop hole imho.

A slightly different, yet on the same subject type of issue.

I have been using the NVIDIA Filter for Creating slight normal maps in Photoshop. So I don't think this should constitute as modeling as it is strictly in Photoshop and there is no HIGH POLY Model being projected onto a low poly.

[nassepossu]

Am I allowed to "reset" the 240 minutes if I start over again from scratch?

[JAPO]

Yup. Its 240 minutes from empty screen to full model. If you have empty screen with no vertex on it... then you have 240 minutes ahead of you :)

[bakuryu06]

Yup. Its 240 minutes from empty screen to full model. If you have empty screen with no vertex on it... then you have 240 minutes ahead of you :)

If you have 1 vertex then does that mean you have 239 :p

[JAPO]

If you have 1 vertex then does that mean you have 239 :p

Not necessarily. You can make one vertex and then push it around the screen for up to 240 minuts, which would leave you with 0 minutes to spare. But beware. If you push it one more time after that, you are disqualified. :eek:

[Rich-3DT]

All of the points that have been raised are valid and there is merit in each of them.

Normal maps do present a unique problem as they can be considered part of the texturing process as well as directly enhancing the model.

As normal maps are not expressly forbidden in the guidelines I thought it reasonable to include these under the banner of texturing which is optional.
By doing so I hoped it would not be a critical criteria when voting alongside textures and rendering etc.

Texturing, lighting and rendering are optional but have the potential to enhance the beauty shots and affect voting. A normal mapped mesh could also affect voting, but equally so could good post effects and rendering.

I therefore hoped that by including normal maps under texturing that the final entries would need to include a clay model without any normal mapping and the wireframe as these are not optional.

I think the beauty shot is where the main problem lies as this can include post effects (and normal maps in this instance) which will certainly have a bearing on the votes.

It maybe that the rules will need to be reviewed and perhaps texturing, normal maps or both be disallowed to keep the focus on the modelling which is after all the central theme.

I welcome any feedback as I ultimately want to make the competition as fair and clear to everyone as possible.

[JAPO]

This is the last version of rules used before Monthly challenges. Its the version I have been using when making stuff for "monthlies." In my opinion it had most of the loopholes covered.
- Point 6 covered normal maps, displacement maps, and splines.
- Points 9 and 10 concerned prizes.
- Point 2 is invalid now, we can have only 1 final entry.
- Point 7 is also very important and attributes to one of most asked questions here. What I lacked in point 7 though is that the extra props or scene should not be included in wire render and clay render. I never included extras in those 2 renders so I would not confuse what has been done in time limit and what is the scene.

1). Each challenge we'll post a subject for you to model along with a time limit on how long you should spend on it. Spend no longer than the allocated time then post a render of your model. No cheating, we are relying on your honesty here and the idea of speed modeling is to simulate a "real world" environment. If you are working on a project and asked to show a concept model you'll need to be able to get somewhere near the target in the allocated time. Your submission should be a model created especially for this challenge and not one you have stored on your hard drive. How you interpret the brief is up to you as long as the final model conforms to what we have asked for. Any images of models that do not match the brief can be removed and the poster disqualified.

2). You may enter as many times as you like as long as each model is completely new and uses no components from other entries. Entries using models which are not original will be removed and the poster disqualified.

3). Your entry may contain as many views of your model as you like and must include a clear and easy to see wireframe of the mesh before any smoothing/subdivision has been applied. Wire renders/ Cell Shaded or Screengrab wireframes are acceptable. Any wireframes we cannot see correctly will be disqualified.

4). You must include the following details with each submission: software used and time spent creating the model. Any further information is voluntary but posts not containing the required information can be removed and the poster disqualified.

5). Post two images per entry which must be no larger than 1280x1024 pixels in either landscape or portrait format with a file size of no more than 195k.
1 image for your wireframes and 1 for your clay combined with a optional beauty render.
These images must be uploaded to our servers using the "browse" button on the forum reply page.
Do not link to external images files. Images larger than the maximum size or posts containing links to external images (other than for reference materials)
will be removed and the poster disqualified.

6). The creation of displacement maps, normal maps and any splines drawn out in an external program other than your modeling software are to be included in your modeling time.

7). Time spent on rendering or texturing or building a scene in which to display your model is not included in the allocated period to allow those with slower machines to participate on an even playing field. What we are looking for is the quality of the models you can produce "under pressure". If your model is not complete, you can still post as long as it's recognizable.

8). Posting the same entry twice in a challenge is considered to be double posting and will result in a disqualification. When asked to fix a previous post due to DQ or any other reason, you must fix the first post, or delete it altogether and create a new one.

[berendey]

I think it is necessary to introduce video recording! Its only 240 mins. Enough only 1 frame per minute. Your work will be only 4 mins video. And anybody can watch this.

No textures, no post. Only clay, wire and maybe studio render shots. It is important to make clear topology for smooth, but not beauty textures and some post effects. This is my opinion :) don't beat me :)

[bakuryu06]

I think it is necessary to introduce video recording! Its only 240 mins. Enough only 1 frame per minute. Your work will be only 4 mins video. And anybody can watch this.

No textures, no post. Only clay, wire and maybe studio render shots. It is important to make clear topology for smooth, but not beauty textures and some post effects. This is my opinion :) don't beat me :)

This is slightly unfair. Please allow me to elaborate.

In the real world studio situation, especially in the gaming world, 3d Artists are limited to the amount of polygons they can use to create a certain object. When it comes to speed modeling and hard-surface modeling, such as the current challenge, it is quite obvious that "most" people will end up with low-poly models, as I did. If you look at a low-poly car or an "all terrain vehicle" in our case, it will not look nearly as good in a clay render than one that is fully textured. In essence, texturing is an ESSENTIAL part of creating a sucessfull low poly model. A low poly model relies heavily on diffusemaps, specular maps, bump maps, and even normal maps to hide the blemishes of low poly modeling such as awkward smoothing groups and rough edges. So to say there shouldn't be any textures in a LOW-POLY challenge where the contestants are constricted to only 240minutes but are alloted 30 days in my opinion is slightly unnecessary and absurd. This is my opinion :) I'm not beating on you :p

[hammering3D]

but this is not a low poly challenge, the low poly chalenge exist and is part of 3dtotal challenges but is not this challenge, so this is more an hi poly challenge. (thats why the clay render is very important). An people don't mostly end up with low poly model if u check the treads people mostly end up with hi poly models with all the details (every bolt and hole cut up in the mesh), tring to keep the mesh very clean.

[bakuryu06]

but this is not a low poly challenge, the low poly chalenge exist and is part of 3dtotal challenges but is not this challenge, so this is more an hi poly challenge. (thats why the clay render is very important). An people don't mostly end up with low poly model if u check the treads people mostly end up with hi poly models with all the details (every bolt and hole cut up in the mesh), tring to keep the mesh very clean.

Hrmm, these people are very talented to be able to do all the details in 4 hours =/

[hammering3D]

talented and fast, and more of that they like i was, they copy and reuse many part of the model over and over again, to speed the things up, if u watch old speed modeling challenges where the time was 60min, u'd be amaze how amazing models people produce in 60min.

[noyb]

I think it is necessary to introduce video recording! Its only 240 mins. Enough only 1 frame per minute. Your work will be only 4 mins video. And anybody can watch this.

No textures, no post. Only clay, wire and maybe studio render shots. It is important to make clear topology for smooth, but not beauty textures and some post effects. This is my opinion :) don't beat me :)


I've always liked the idea of doing a video capture, it would be a great learning tool and keep people honest. However, all the capture tools that I've used significantly slowed down my computer which made it tough to work fast (though I've never tried doing 1 frame per minute).

[MightyReg]

I also think video capture would be a good idea, always fun to see the way other people model. Altough 1 frame per minutes may be not enough, maybe 2 or 3 frames per minutes would be nice.

[JAPO]

Hrmm, these people are very talented to be able to do all the details in 4 hours =/

I think it was Black3Dt who once said "Biggest compliment you may get in this challenge is if somebody tells you that you could not have done the model in 60 minutes" :)
As for the level of details, yes, it is incredible sometimes but in most cases I am able to reverse engineer the model based on wire and clay and say how I would be able to do it. I say most, not all.

- As for the recording, my opinions concernign this are both for and against. For because you get rid of "how the hell did he do that?" Against because it creates "oh he did that in the minute between frame 12 and 13. If recording was to work, it would have to be full 25 or 30 fps. And then it will block the computer. So instead of making things more fair, this will favour people with stronger computers and faster harddisks.

- As for keeping people honest... if someone was dishonest before, do you really think they wont speed up the movie? Let me demonstrate. At 25 fps you record 240 minutes on 360000 frames. On 30fps you record 432000 frames. BUT if you play the 360000 frames at 30 fps, you get 200 minutes movie. Nobody will tell the difference and nobody will have a clue, because both are default settings of different systems. And to make things worse... this "wrong playback speed" can be embedded into the movie clip by accident. It happened to me before and I wondered why the hell my animation was significantly shorter than the sound track while the frame count was correct. So i think this point is valid only for those who cant load image sequence at 25 frames and output it at 30.
I would not use this tactic... but I would not take movie clips as proof either. If I know, everybody knows. So I would be back to square 1 relying on everybodys honesty.

:???: But before you go deeper into how to solve recording problem, let me ask you this: What was the recording supposed to solve? Will it solve public voting, or normal maps? Was there a honesty issue I missed? I am getting lost in here as to what are you solving, or whether this is just a new unrelated problem.

[czacen]

Just for information, I had initially used video captures for all my entries of the SMC#01. I had put them up there to specifically show that the time taken was indeed within the time limit. The files were around 160-200mb each for a 640by480 camtasia record of 2 hours.

My 2 Cents:

However as to your concern over people doing way more modeling than seems possible in 4 hours, you might want to look into the wireframe images more carefully. This is the place where you can tell how people have conserved time while working. I personally trust that the 3D total judges are also people of the same capacity who can analyze this and deduce who has submitted something that does not seem possible within the time limit.

As with the issue of normal maps and the background models, perhaps it makes more sense to only ask or clay and wire submissions? Since during final judging its these images that are reviewed, but during public voting people tend to be persuaded by the beauty shot more causing a conflict of judging parameters.

My gripe at the moment is more with the file size limitation of 195kb jpeg. I honestly can't understand why this can't be made 500kb at least? My wireframe shots tend to not fit within the size capacity at all, leaving me to save them at low quality 1 and 2 settings in photoshop. Can we get this restriction revised?

[hammering3D]

czacen - u can use save for web function and there u have the optimization thing, and if u set it up to 195k then Photoshop it will save it near 195k at maximum quality in this size, and it look allot better then using seatings like: low, medium, h, very hi.

[gauravcg]

Guys where is the final entry thread?

[hammering3D]

is not up yet

[bakuryu06]

My gripe at the moment is more with the file size limitation of 195kb jpeg. I honestly can't understand why this can't be made 500kb at least? My wireframe shots tend to not fit within the size capacity at all, leaving me to save them at low quality 1 and 2 settings in photoshop. Can we get this restriction revised?


Thank you so much! I thought I was the only one in this boat since i saw not a single post addressing this issue, I didn't want to be "that person" to bring it up. I completely agree with you bro. We should have the option of uploading it on our own servers and then linking them.

[hammering3D]

I did't say that :), czacen did :)
They not allowed outside linking because if u delete the images after some time or the traffic reach the limit they will end up with threads without images.

[hammering3D]

My gripe at the moment is more with the file size limitation of 195kb jpeg. I honestly can't understand why this can't be made 500kb at least? My wireframe shots tend to not fit within the size capacity at all, leaving me to save them at low quality 1 and 2 settings in photoshop. Can we get this restriction revised?


I spoke stupid tings before, U are right, my wire look very bad to at the 195k :shy::o

[bakuryu06]

is the deadline Jan. 31st 11:59PM? or tonight at 11:59?

[hammering3D]

Jan. 31st 11:59PM, but I think GMT so see the time zone.

[rocneasta]

Tonight's the night! :p

[hammering3D]

tonight ? ohh my bad, really ? I trough till the end of 31

[rocneasta]

well tonight (right now) is 31st silly!

[hammering3D]

ohh yes, u goth me :D actually 31 3:27 am

[rocneasta]

yea hour ahead of my time and 2 hours ahead of UK time

[bakuryu06]

Wait a minute...UK time or USA time? if USA then east, mideast, or west?

[rocneasta]

GMT is UK time, here's a list

UTC.GMT......EDT..........EST.CDT.....CST.MDT....M ST.PDT....PST
0000...........8PM...........7PM...........6PM.... .......5PM...........4PM
0100...........9PM...........8PM...........7PM.... .......6PM...........5PM
0200...........10PM.........9PM...........8PM..... ......7PM...........6PM
0300...........11PM.........10PM.........9PM...... ......8PM...........7PM
0400...........Midng........11PM.........10PM..... ......9PM...........8PM
0500...........1AM...........Midng.......11PM..... ......10PM.........9PM
0600...........2AM...........1AM..........Midng... ......11PM........10PM
0700...........3AM...........2AM..........1AM..... ......Midng.......11PM
0800...........4AM...........3AM..........2AM..... ......1AM.........Midng
0900...........5AM...........4AM..........3AM..... ......2AM.........1AM
1000...........6AM...........5AM..........4AM..... ......3AM.........2AM
1100...........7AM...........6AM..........5AM..... ......4AM.........3AM
1200...........8AM...........7AM..........6AM..... ......5AM.........4AM
1300...........9AM...........8AM..........7AM..... ......6AM.........5AM
1400...........10AM.........9AM..........8AM...... .....7AM.........6AM
1500...........11AM........10AM.........9AM....... .....8AM.........7AM
1600...........Noon.........11AM........10AM...... .....9AM.........8AM
1700...........1PM...........Noon........11AM..... .....10AM........9AM
1800...........2PM...........1PM..........Noon.... ......11AM........10AM
1900...........3PM...........2PM...........1PM.... .......Noon........11AM
2000...........4PM...........3PM...........2PM.... .......1PM..........Noon
2100...........5PM...........4PM...........3PM.... .......2PM..........1PM
2200...........6PM...........5PM...........4PM.... .......3PM..........2PM
2300...........7PM...........6PM...........5PM.... .......4PM..........3PM

[bakuryu06]

GMT is UK time, here's a list

UTC.GMT......EDT..........EST.CDT.....CST.MDT....M ST.PDT....PST
0000...........8PM...........7PM...........6PM.... .......5PM...........4PM
0100...........9PM...........8PM...........7PM.... .......6PM...........5PM
0200...........10PM.........9PM...........8PM..... ......7PM...........6PM
0300...........11PM.........10PM.........9PM...... ......8PM...........7PM
0400...........Midng........11PM.........10PM..... ......9PM...........8PM
0500...........1AM...........Midng.......11PM..... ......10PM.........9PM
0600...........2AM...........1AM..........Midng... ......11PM........10PM
0700...........3AM...........2AM..........1AM..... ......Midng.......11PM
0800...........4AM...........3AM..........2AM..... ......1AM.........Midng
0900...........5AM...........4AM..........3AM..... ......2AM.........1AM
1000...........6AM...........5AM..........4AM..... ......3AM.........2AM
1100...........7AM...........6AM..........5AM..... ......4AM.........3AM
1200...........8AM...........7AM..........6AM..... ......5AM.........4AM
1300...........9AM...........8AM..........7AM..... ......6AM.........5AM
1400...........10AM.........9AM..........8AM...... .....7AM.........6AM
1500...........11AM........10AM.........9AM....... .....8AM.........7AM
1600...........Noon.........11AM........10AM...... .....9AM.........8AM
1700...........1PM...........Noon........11AM..... .....10AM........9AM
1800...........2PM...........1PM..........Noon.... ......11AM........10AM
1900...........3PM...........2PM...........1PM.... .......Noon........11AM
2000...........4PM...........3PM...........2PM.... .......1PM..........Noon
2100...........5PM...........4PM...........3PM.... .......2PM..........1PM
2200...........6PM...........5PM...........4PM.... .......3PM..........2PM
2300...........7PM...........6PM...........5PM.... .......4PM..........3PM

That means 7PM for me. Oh noes.

[rocneasta]

you're good as long as there's no final thread! i guess!

[ORSETTO]

Someone should set up final entry thread. I can't be on computer all day.

[gauravcg]

Yup i am also looking for final entry thread.....!

[hammering3D]

Because they did't set up the thread earlier, I am sure they will not set up the final thread in the last hour then say people that did't post the final images there they get disqualified. They will allow extra time for people to post the finals. I am sure of that.
Set the final image till then in u'r wip thread to have the proof U end it up before the deadline.

[Rachel vd M]

i got my model done, but i dont know if i'll manage to make a decent final in time.
are we allowed extra time for that? :o

[JAPO]

I dont think so Rachel. But know that I too would appreciate the extra time. I am struggling with beauty render. I need faster comp. Way faster.

[rocneasta]

i think i mentioned it earlier, a suggestion that people that make the modeling and post the wires and atleast the clay, should be allotted some extra time for making a beauty render

[Rachel vd M]

i managed to get all the renders done, now just to composite it for a final
still i see no finals thread

[rocneasta]

i see only Freespace around, perhaps he could create it..

[zipel]

Great Rachel, i thought you didn't have the time. :) Can you post them in your thread, i'm really interested to see how it came out?

btw Do entries which aren't made untill the deadline, but submited in the final thread (when it's made), count? I don't want to bother with a new model, if it would get disqualified...

[Rachel vd M]

i entered it, just a few min's before 1 februari (atleast at +CET )

[JAPO]

Finals thread up and running
http://forums.3dtotal.com/showthread.php?t=73445

[bakuryu06]

Finals thread up and running
http://forums.3dtotal.com/showthread.php?t=73445

Is everyone allowed to post in the FINAL entry thread or just those who posted their FINALS within their WIP threads before 12? Cuz a lot of people didn't.

[rocneasta]

hmmm the answer would usually be no. But since the late creation of Final thread i think all participants will have to wait for the 3DT staff to answer this in orderly fashion when they get online.

[Rachel vd M]

any new challenges announced yet?

p.s.

i started a discussion about textures over at the SMC rule discussion thread:
http://forums.3dtotal.com/showthread.php?p=766399#post7663999

please join in and share your opinion

[rocneasta]

Good old days - most activity, beautiful models, talent and all around progress

#sentimental