Cordero - Snow Creature

[Cordero]

Hey all!
First concept, its going to be a centaur. I just can't draw horses, so i only done the upper body. Kind of simple, i know... contains all the information i need to go on low poly:D

His two arms is going to be covered in ice, as well the hoofs. The "veins" or glowing bluish stuff on the surface of his skin is going to be seen on the legs as well. maybe i'll model a big spear made of ice.

This is going to be interesting, because i've never modeled animals before. And i'm not familiar with furs either...

Good luck for everyone!!

[Tarik2d]

sound and looks funky

[Cordero]

Started modeling. This image shows the basic size of the muscles, and stuff:D
I just noticed that the guy looks a bit weird from the front, i'm gonna fix that.

Usually,i do the lowpoly model first, unwrap the uvw, and start sculpting it. maybe this time i'll change my route :D but i'm not sure right now.

[Cordero]

I decided to stick to my old way. So i started fixing the polyflow. I modeled the hand, and the hooves. I also decided to change the head, maybe i'll add horns if i have some tris left. Tomorrow i will model the weapon, and i'll define the forearm, and the legs icey surface.

The centaur's name is Liam. :D

Hope you like it.

[Tarik2d]

He has a nice shape to him

[Cordero]

Thanks!

I see you have a thumbs up! Grats on that!
Can you link the tutorial please?:D

[Tarik2d]

Cheers its being looked through so probably will be a couple of weeks

[Cordero]

Cool! Looking forward to it!:D

Here is a little update. I removed his eyes, he will see like bats, or dare devil:D I added horns instead. They are not final yet, just a place holder.

His mouth will be like a cage, sealed with icicle.

I'm gonna figure out how to create the nice lowpoly base for my future spikes on the arms, and legs.

The spear will have a little horse head sculpt made of ice, perhaps you can see where it will be:D

Hope you like it.

[Cordero]

I still have a 2.5 k tris left. I decided not to cover the hooves with ice, because that looked bad.
I started to shape the mouth.. its kind weird now, i will try to fix that.

edit: i just noticed, that the hands sux. will fix that too.

[folktrollish]

i love the "horse kick" spear :)

[Cordero]

Thanks! I'm glad you like it!

I think i'll sculpt the weapon first, and see how i can manage with ice:D
I'm almost done with the low poly version.

[Cordero]

Here is the wire frame, and a little over paint from front view. I decided to shape the little spike beneath the horse head on the spear like a leg for the horse. It looks bad now, because i resized it in PS.
Its better then my first attempt at concept...:D
I think i'll redo the mouth a little bit, and some base proportions must be changed to get a better shape.

What do you think?

[Tarik2d]

He is looking good, Crazy teeth

[Cordero]

I always stop at this stage for a half day... dunno why, but i will not stop next time:D I'm fixing the mouth now, after that i'll start unwrap it.

[Tarik2d]

oh, i like his teeth :) that wasnt crazy in a bad way :)

[Cordero]

Well i like the teeth too, what i was trying to fix is the mouth's shape. I mean the lips and stuff:D

[Cordero]

Can someone tell me it thats possible to remove a pelt seam? Pelt maped one part of the mesh, and after the other. now i want the two different part to be pelt mapped together, but it's still keeps to divide them by the pelt seam created before, between the two mesh part. (those areas are next to each other)

[Insania]

Hi Cordero.
Delete pelt seam: Just click on edit seam
155476
and after that click holding ALT button on seam that you want delete
P.s. sorry for English I hope you'll understand me. :D

[Cordero]

hah! Big thanks! Works fine!:D
I'll post the uvw pretty soon... i will have a ton of spare space, and of course 3k tris... but i might finish the model this way, this was the original idea, and i think i'll stick to it as an exercise:D so next time i'll draw a better concept...

[Cordero]

Liam's uvw:D

I think this is better than my previous one, so i take this as a victory. Moving on to sculpting now.
The next concept will be super-duper detailed. That's for sure...

[Insania]

Not bad :)

[Cordero]

Well, thanks!:D
Even a "not bad" means a lot from You :D
I will do two different models this time, so i can see my improvement in one theme, which makes it easier to decide whether i improved or not.

[SR_6274]

Looking really good so far. I think you still have a lot of wasted space on the UV's.

Can't wait to see you start the sculpt.

[Tarik2d]

Good job with the unwrao

[snakeeaterjns]

Cool work man. Keep going.

[setschaos]

Nice and clean unwrap, however, work on your space budget. What I suggest with this paintover is taking the red area and expanding it to fit into your whole texture square and then find space for all the odds and ends to fit in the gaps. This will give you your detail where you need it and since you did a nice pelt job you wont have to worry about seems too terribly much.

Keep it up!

[Cordero]

SR_6274 - Thanks! I tried to fix the uvw a little bit. I'll post the sculpt progress today.
Tarik2d - Thanks man!
snakeeaterjns - Thanks! I think i'll finish this until monday.

setschaos - thanks for the advice! I think i figured out correctly your instructions !:D Here is the new uvw. I think i can't really do much more with this, but maybe you see something i don't:D

edit: i still have some overlapping polys, i will fix that later.

[setschaos]

No, that looks pretty solid. Eventually (And I haven't gotten there either, only the masters have) you will have hardly any empty space whatsoever. Art leads in the industry are constantly looking for little giveaways from artists to see who is further along in the curve and the UV layout is quite possibly the first give away, you are well on your way! good work!

[Cordero]

Thanks! Keeps me going:D

I ran into a little problem here. See, i started sculpting with my first UVW version of the model. I got pretty far ahead, and then i modified my low poly uvw.

My way to solve this problem till today was to open up my new uvwd low poly model in zbrush (thats where i do my normals maps, and i want to stay that way for now:D) and i store it. (storeMT) and then, i subdivide the poly to the sublevel where my high poly is, and i import only the high poly part from my previous sculpt. (where the low poly's uvw is not good)

And then i go back to the lowest level, and i switch back to the original lowpoly, which has the good uvw layout. And then i hit create normal map, and i'm good to go.
But now, when i import the high poly mesh, it changes the low poly mesh's uvw, and when i do the normal map, it gives back the old uvw layout with the normal map on it.
So the question is, how do i change the lowpoly's uvw, without losing the previously created highpoly.

[Cordero]

Oh, and that's the progress for sculpting now.
Its pretty basic, but i am getting better with each mouse click:D that's the cool thing about learning a now program, the fast progress on the beginning:D

But the question still applies, if anyone knows the answer, please let me know.

[Tarik2d]

I will let u know tomorrow how to sort it. If I understand right u shouldn't worry u can keep sculpting away on the high Res

[Cordero]

looking forward to the solution Tarik2d thanks!

[Tarik2d]

i sent u a message, trying to multi task :s

[SR_6274]

Sculpt is coming along nice. Let us know if Tarik's fix worked for what ya needed, so if not, we can try to figure out what is going on.

Your UV space is much better now. Not as much wasted space which is exactly what you want. Great work, keep it up.

[Tarik2d]

we'll get it sorted hopefuly ;)

[Cordero]

So if you guys ever have to change the uvw layout of a low poly mesh, which you already detailed in zbrush using the bad uvw layout, here is what you have to do:

1. Load up your .ztl file, which contains the fully detailed high poly, and the low poly version of the same model (so all the subdivision levels).

2. Now, go up to the highest subdivision level, and hit StoreMT in the Morph Target rollout.

3. once you stored the high poly version, go to the lowest subdivision level, and hit import... --> select the lowpoly mesh with the good/new uvw map.

4. Hit del higher! (DO NOT go to the highest sub level after you imported the good low poly mesh!!!)

5. now divide the good low poly mesh, until you reach the same subdivision level where you were.

6. if you are at the right subdivision level, the switch button in the Morph Target rollout will be available. Hit it.

Now you have the new UVW map on the lowpoly as well as the high poly, and you can generate any map you want!:D

I hope it helps somebody.

[lampshadehead]

Cordero, thanks for that tip! I can see that coming in really handy some day! Keep up the great work.

[Cordero]

Thanks for the reply lampshadehead! I'm happy that you find this thing useful! Its already worth finding out then:D

This is pretty much the end of the body sculpt. It will look bad on my low poly, because i deformed the mesh too much during the sculpting process. Next time i will do the high poly first... zspheres looks like fun:D
But i'm gonna finish this 'character' thats for sure! Tomorrow, i'll sculpt the weapon, and start texturing. I need to practice that last one a bit more..:D

[snakeeaterjns]

The sculpture is getting really good. Keep it up.

[kogen]

Hei Cordero the model looks good. I like the horns and just wonder if you could add a bit more detail in some regions. For example you might add the bumpiness of the horns of a goat. http://www.nhm.ac.uk/resources-rx/images/bezoar-goat-horns-slide_13573_1.jpg

[Cordero]

Thanks snakeeaterjns i'm glad you like it!

I didn't know what to do with the horns, thanks for the great tip Sadone! I'll hook up some pictures, and i'll try to sculpt it.

[Tarik2d]

thats good, hope what i said helped

[Cordero]

Tarik2d- i couldn't manage to solve the problem the way you said, but thanks for the help!

Here is the normal mapped low poly.
Well... i'm not really satisfied with this result, but i know why is this so bad, and i can't solve it now, if i want to finish till monday.
Its easier to start with my new workflow, a completely new idea, and see how i improved.

I am still going to texture this!

[kogen]

Hei Cordero,

good to see the horns changed. :)
I really like what you did with the horns. The lower arms look also great. What will happen to his head/neck area? I just ask because this area is the less detailed one at the moment, any special ideas for texturing?

[Cordero]

nothing specific at the moment, but i think i'll leave that this way now..
I have this thing, that i constantly leave one part without details on each of my character models. Like the hands and feet in the previous challenge.

Anyway, i'm on textures now.
Thanks for the feedback, and again for the horns!

[Cordero]

Well, here is the first tries for the final render. I still want to change the diffuse map here and there, and maybe i'll do some major changes in the color scheme.

I'm happy when i look at this picture, because it shows how much i can improve in the next character:D (which i'll start on monday night i think)

[snakeeaterjns]

Good model, good textures, but I think the textures deserved a little more work, maybe if you play in one engine, and test a shader, get a much better result.
Good luck.

[roel]

Hi Cordero, maybe the hooves could use some more attention. A darker color?

[Cordero]

Thanks Snake! What do you mean by using a game engine? I can import my model into a game engine like unreal ooor what? Can you link a tutorial or something which you find useful?

Thanks Roel for your comment! I darkened the hooves, and you were right, it is better this way.

So thats it for Liam! Thanks for all the comments, and crits, they were really helpful, and I improved a lot!

I'm starting my new entry i think here. I'll post my new concept today.

[Cordero]

i've considered some options, and i think that a dog might be a good idea. And because i love unbalanced things, i'm going to make his two front legs much much bigger.
This image shows the basic idea. I'm planning to do some fancy effects with the ribcage, and the spine. I might add some spikes here and there, but they are overused these days, so i'm not sure.
And because i'm not really good at forearms, but i really love the shape of it, i would like to do some cool effect on the front leg's lower piece. His hand will be more like a human hand, not like a dog's.

I need to search some pictures of dogs, and stuff to get this right:D I'll draw this guy from another POV, and i'll flash it out with every detail.

The name is still under construction:D
So i hope you like the idea, even if the silhouette is bad right now.

[Cordero]

I found a name for him!
Orgo which means monster in spanish. Original huh?

Here is the concept. I think that it contains more info about the future model then my concept on Liam. (the final model turned out to be completely different...) Sooo this is better!:D

Next time i'll draw the concept in some kind of "angled" view. (i mean a the drawing will be in some kind of a pose, from perspective)
So i could show more details.

Right now, i have to move forward to the base mesh.
I'll try the base mesh -> sculpt -> retopo mode now.

And, i don't know yet what to do with the open area below the ribcage. I think i'll show off some organs there..:D

[Rezdoggy]

hye man, i lik3e the design! i think you need to start a new thread if your starting a new idea though

[Stoneking]

Hey Cordero!
Really great work man, i love the render,
Do you mind sharing the render setup?

Keep it coming!
Cheers
Fernando

[Cordero]

Hey Rezdoggy! I'm glad you like it!
Sure, i'll share the render setup! As soon as i get to it!

Here is the basemesh so far. I will scale it here and there, but this is basically it! I'm really curious how i'll do at the sculpting:D

I hope you like it!

[Cordero]

hey all!
I have some new ideas, which i already added on the low poly, and i'll probably sculpt those floating ice stuff separately.

The sculpt is going good so far, but i ran into a problem here. I've masked one side of the mesh, so i can resym it. It worked fine, until now. I just noticed, that two part of the mesh is screwed up:S and resym doesn't solve it.
I also tried to go over with the brush on it, and resym after that, but it only reduces the bugs amount a bit, but it doesn't fade fully.

Of course, i can flatten out the bugged side only, and it works fine, the bug vanishes, but i'm curious why is this happening. (and i also don't want to fix those bugs one by one every time i resym my model)

So if anyone has a solution to this problem, please let me know!

[Arkadius]

Can we see it at the lowest sub division? With frame on(shift+f)?

[Cordero]

Here is the lowest sub with wireframe.
I don't know why this is different. I exported the obj file from max, which had a symmetry modifier on it. (i turned it into a editable poly before exporting)
now i tried to symmetry this sub level, but when i scroll back to the highest it gets screwed up again.

[Cordero]

well i checked the base mesh, and there was the problem. The symmetry was correct, but the mesh wasn't. I had to add two cuts on each side, so the mesh can only divide one way.

So now, the next question is, is there a way to save my highpoly made from a wrong low poly and bring it on a top of another base mesh?

[Arkadius]

Yes there is my friend, or at least something similar. Bear in mind I'm half asleep its 2 am and I have class in the mourning so I'm not all here.

1.What you can do is correct you're mesh at the lowest sub D in whatever external 3d app you want.
2. Once this is done, import the model to zbrush.
3. Now go back to you're old zbrush model and switch down to the lowest sub division and append you're new model as a sub tool.
4. Switch you're new model as the active tool. Under you're sub tool options you will see three big buttons and smaller options, you will focus on one section only, "Project all".
Leave the dist. at its default
Leave the "maximum" button on
Set the blur to "0", this just blurs the details, but you really don't need it since the topo should nearly be the same.
5. Now hit the "project all" button. switch over to you're model and go up one sub D, switch back to you're new model divide once and hit the "project all" button again. You will need to do this a couple of times depending how many Sub D you're old model had. If all goes well you have you high rez details on you're new model topo.

It wont be prefect but you will be way better than nothing. I'm sorry if it doesnt help or if its not what you needed. If I was unclear about something let me know I'll try to help you out. good night sleepy time...

[Cordero]

woah man:D works like magic. :dance:
Big Thanks for the help!

[Cordero]

Here is the render setup Fernando:
I used vray, one directional light, with 0.3 multiplier, pure white color (no shadows). The position of this light is 45 degree from the camera to the right, and a bit from the top.

I turned off default light in the global switches rollout.
I turned on indirect illumination, turned off secondary bounces, and i set medium preset for irradiance map.

And the whole scene is in a tube, with switched poly. I also smoothed the bottom of the tube, so it doesn't break.

I hope this helps.

[Stoneking]

Here is the render setup Fernando:
I used vray, one directional light, with 0.3 multiplier, pure white color (no shadows). The position of this light is 45 degree from the camera to the right, and a bit from the top.

I turned off default light in the global switches rollout.
I turned on indirect illumination, turned off secondary bounces, and i set medium preset for irradiance map.

And the whole scene is in a tube, with switched poly. I also smoothed the bottom of the tube, so it doesn't break.

I hope this helps.

Hey Cordero,
First congrats for the models,
And Many thanks for spending the time with sharing the Render Setup,
Sure it helps me a lot,
Thanks alot Bro
Cheers
Fernando

[Cordero]

Thanks Fernando!
Glad i could help.

Here is an update on the sculpt. I hadn't touched the paws yet, and i want to do an ear for the guy. He looks like Venom a bit now, but with ears, and modified eyes, i think that "problem" will be solved:D

I used the projection that lotuseater said earlier, and i think that caused some problem with the paws. If someone could help me out on that part, that would be nice.
I thought about flatten out the whole finger part, and start pulling it out, but that might not be a good idea.

Anyway, i hope you like the updates!

[Edragon]

has a Venom feel to it :), sucks about the problem your having with the feet.

[Arkadius]

If its not the topo, then you just may have redo the feet :(

[lampshadehead]

Looks nice, alot like vemon :) For the feet I'd go to the lowest subdivision level and use the move to tool to pull some of those vertices around individually until you get rid of those overlaps. It'd be a pretty quick thing to try before trashing the feet and starting over.

[Cordero]

Thanks for the comment Edragon. solved the problem!:D
Well, thanks again Lotuseater for your reply again, because i used the same method to fix the hands.
Hey lampshadehead! I don't know about Venom yet.. do you think its a bad thing that he looks like it? I mean i kinda like it this way:D The textures, and maybe the ear will define his own identity:D
I also tried the move tool, and it worked on the lowest sub lvl, but somehow if i switched to a higher level, the mesh were screwed up again! Maybe there is a little button to recalculate the higher sublvls based on the modified lowest level?

Well guys, thats how i solved the problem, so if anyone encounter a problem like this, the solution will be ready:
1. Find the lowpoly model of the high res model. (the exported obj from 3dsmax for example) The part you need to fix should be correct on this model. (in my case the feet)
2. import the lowpoly model to zrbush
3. open up your 1 to x sublvl mesh, where you have the detailed high poly on the bad lowpoly.
4. now go up to the highest sublevel and hide the areas you want to fix! (ctrl+shift)
5. go to the lowest sub lvl, and hit delhidden under the geometry tab.
(from here its basically the method which Lotuseater said earlier)
6. now open up subtool and append the previously imported low poly.
7. select the newly imported lowpoly subtool, and hit project all. (your high poly model is still on the lowest subd lvl)
8. go to the highpoly subtool, increase the subdiv level by one
9. go back to the lowpoly model, and divide it once.
10. hit project all again.
11. repeat the steps from 7-10 till you reach the highest sublvl, and you are done!
All of the deleted areas weren't projected to the imported lowpoly, this way you have all the details from the high poly model, but without the messed up parts of the mesh.

It may be useless for most people, but maybe someone will find it helpful. Just sharing:D

[Stoneking]

Hey Cordero!
I Like the new sculpture progress, congratulations man,
The Pitbull feel makes it a real Bad#@#s

Thanks for sharing the fixing method,
Project all is a really wonderfull tool,
I use it a lot, and i use a method just like yours
Without need to hide, to project the subdivisions
on the Mesh that i after openned the UV's,

Cheers Bro

Fernando

[Cordero]

Hey Fernando!
Thanks for your appreciation! It means a lot!
Added an ear, it kind of looks funny, but i like the contrast of funny and scary stuff:D it gives the character some kind of insanity...:D Like the dog in the film Mask, when he put on the mask...:D that was nice..

so here is the image. I added some intense noise/bump on the shoulder area, which i'll make a bit more icey.

I'm going to retopo now. Never done that before. Is there any tips from you guys which could be useful? I think i'll import a lower sublvl into max, and just match up my lowpoly with it.

[Stoneking]

Hey Man!
Looks great,
Getting better and Better, congrats
What i think would be killer is to make the face profile longer,
And maybe some EXOSKELETON !!!! just kidding...
Not kidding, whe love EXOSKELETONS :smug::xyz:

Keep on Rocking
Fernando

[Cordero]

I'm glad you like it!
Okay! I'll try to make it longer a bit. That was the original idea anyway..:D
And i'll give him some kind of extra armor, which can be seen on the last base mesh a little bit upper here. I'm not sure about its surface now, but i'll have to figure it out :D

[Cordero]

Well, here is the retopo.
Could be a lot better, i think, but i had to get used to the whole retopo stuff first:D it was a bit weird.

I compared this with my base mesh, and i have to say that i like the base mesh's shape, and proportion a lot more. I spent a lot of time setting up the base mesh's prop, and i forgot that during the sculpting, and i modified that too much, and now its not that good.

Next time i'll do that better.
Moving on to uvw, trying out some new methods on that part too.

Stay tuned!:D

and its 6,944 tris.
And i also dropped the whole additional "armor stuff, because it sux on the new model... waaagh :D my next one will be ten times better.

[Cordero]

Can anyone tell my, why aren't my keybindings works in the uvw modifier?
It says ctrl+d = detach, and i used that bind a lot, but now it jost beeps. same gose to target weld...
really annoying.

Restarted max, and tried to merge the scene with an empty one. didn't help.

[Cordero]

Here is the uvw.

It is worthless because it doesn't cover enough space on the map, which means i have a ton of unused areas. The only thing that is not in the big chunk, is the thumb. The fingers overall suffers a lot of deformation, so i could detach them, and fix it, but i think i'll change the whole layout. And I also could merge this with its mirrored part, so i could make some variations on the sides, but i wanted it to be symmetrical from the beginning.
I think i'll go back, give it some more seams, but using more uvw space.
I think the most effective way could be "thinking inside of boxes" and make everything box shaped. Which is another overkill, like i did with the seamless stuff:D so something between it i think.
Its worth practicing, even if i can't finish this one in time.
At least i have good old Liam to help me out on the weekend...:D

What do You think?

[Cordero]

Well, squares rules... I think this is better. Of course its just a wip, i wanted to show you guys the general idea.
The fingers are not done, and there are some minor stretching fix to be done, but i think this will work, even though this is a "naked" character, so seems should be avoided. But i think this is a fair amount of seems, and a fair amount of stretching traded for much more UVW space then the first try.

And i had space for welding the chest piece together, so i can do some "not symmetrical" stuff on Orgo. :dance:

The key bindings still doesn't work, that slowed me down a bit... i wonder if anyone ever had the same problem here.

(looking for word, which means not symmetrical... :D)

I'm most interested in your opinion guys! Gimme some love:D

[Stoneking]

Hey Cordero,
I cannot say much about UV opening, cause i'm still a junior in it....
But for me yours looks MUCH better then mine, you will se my maps....
ARGHHHH i have more unused space then used :smug::smug:
I use UVMapper, and i don't even know how to fill those spaces with it,
I also purchased UNFOLD 3D but had no time yet to learn it,
One day i'll get there
Cheers
Fernando

[Edragon]

are any of you familiar with Roadkill? A teacher showed me it a few years back and i've loved it ever since(not to mention its free).

[Cordero]

Good luck with improving in UVW Stoneking! I don't really know those stuff, so i can't help you in that.

Edragon: i don't know that app. It could be cool if you use it ever since!:D

I used 3dsmax standard uvw stuffs. Pelt mapping, an relax only.

[Insania]

Hi Cordero. Your uvw really nice. I like your centaur render:D

[Cordero]

Thanks Insania!

Didn't have much time to do the textures in the last couple of days, but now i have.

During the texture work i did for today, one question popped, which is:
"how do i rig animals?"
can anyone give a tutorial / advice on how to do it?
The only thing i used so far for rigging is biped. which is not suitable for this job:D

i will show the texture later on this day.

[kogen]

Why not?

As far as I can see your creature is a quadruped. Take the biped, bend the back and you have a quadruped. It's absolutely suitable for that creature. Besides that you may try Transpose in ZBrush, which should be enough for finishing the competition successfully.

-S.

[Cordero]

Okay, thanks! That sounds reasonable. :D

This is the final image for Orgo. Its better in some aspects then Liam, and that was the goal.
I have some interesting lightning bug, which i think is caused by the normal map.

I got a little discouraged when i realized that i screwed up the proportions... I need to keep an eye on that next time:D

Thanks for all the helpful comments! See you guys tomorrow, in the next challenge!

[Stoneking]

Hey Cordero!

Very nice, congratulations,
See you tomorrow too!!!

Cheers