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-   -   Dominance War V - 2D - The Immortal - washka (http://forums.3dtotal.com/showthread.php?t=82669)

washka 16-03-2011 06:04 PM

Dominance War V - 2D - The Immortal - washka
 
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2D speed painting: "The Immortal"

-God of immortality => The Oldest One of all has been unleashed.

More soon...

[Edit]
And I'm first 2D entry YEEEAAAAHHHHH!

[Edit][2] I'll refresh here when the WIP are worth/consistent:
[Edit][3]
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/858...ipdwvw2011.jpg
[Edit][4]
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5...w2dwvw2011.jpg

liquidbear 16-03-2011 06:22 PM

wooo :D best off luck

paulius-st 16-03-2011 07:09 PM

it would be interesting what you will come up with. i'll ceep am eye on this one :) .
by the way - congrats on being the first 2d artist here :)

chris_solo 16-03-2011 08:20 PM

yeah! good luck blue rabbit! :)

washka 16-03-2011 08:48 PM

Thanks guys, hope I won't deceive you.
Da battle will last until da end!

Scout deployment achieved.
First objective: Search and destroy!

Splatch technique, voting support appreciated while I go berserk a bit more on those:
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/5...esdwvw2011.jpg

paulius-st 16-03-2011 08:52 PM

i like 1'st and 8'th.

Cordero 16-03-2011 09:12 PM

9,6,4

aaaaal the way!

Keeping an eye on you!:D

washka 16-03-2011 10:36 PM

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Hi chris_solo, you're onto the comp'?
Thanks paulius-st and Cordero, three new ones:
9-1
6-8
4

paulius-st 16-03-2011 10:39 PM

15

Cordero 16-03-2011 10:41 PM

oh yeah 15 looks nice!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3jFTzhdZF4
I'm guessing ur funky enough to like this song :D :dance:

washka 16-03-2011 10:51 PM

I'll put crabs into his mouth oooh yeah! I remember this one. :dance:
So mix between 15 and 9-1 has been decided. Thanks for voting.

gestis 16-03-2011 11:05 PM

that red substance in the bacground looks definitely immortal ;P

liquidbear 16-03-2011 11:13 PM

im liking 8 and 15

washka 16-03-2011 11:21 PM

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Quote:

that red substance in the bacground looks definitely immortal
Thanks man, I had some blo*dy vampire thought in my mind, now that I got the shape I'll push the immortality concept further.

snake/dragon/phoenix/medusa/hydra/time/tree/fruit/water/anti-death...

Also need some hot war stuff (weapon).

I've been blending 15, 9 and 1 liquidbear, it'll be my starting point, thank you.

paulius-st 16-03-2011 11:40 PM

looks cool allready . :) .

liquidbear 16-03-2011 11:55 PM

now this is heading to epicness :)

setschaos 17-03-2011 02:26 AM

NUUUUUU I likes 6,12,14!

hulahuga 17-03-2011 05:42 AM

Nice concept man :)

Try to make him integrated into a cool ****** scene. Try to avoid it being as separated from it as the ghost army that you did before and this will be very cool indeed! :)

redonix76 17-03-2011 05:55 AM

Awesome!! I love that it's huge and powerful looking. Definitely epic!!!

washka 17-03-2011 03:08 PM

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Thanks a lot for backup support guys really!!! Hope I'll improve a lot during DWV.
I'm already preparing some secrets techniques I hope you'll like.

Quote:

now this is heading to epicness
I'm just starting liquidbear. :)

Quote:

NUUUUUU I likes 6,12,14!
A 6-12 mix would have definitly make something interesting, more machine like.
Got to go fast so voting time is short. But thanks for it setschaos, maybe I'll use the style of those for the background. (And man, I already started your snake idea from last time)

Quote:

Try to make him integrated into a cool ****** scene. Try to avoid it being as separated from it as the ghost army that you did before and this will be very cool indeed!
You point something important for me Hula, and you know I s*ck with scenes.
Don't know yet if I will work on it on a second time or make a parallal layout/concept work one for it. Have to think about the integration too. The scene has to be with a desolate mood, but doesn't mean there won't be any work on it, there will be.

Quote:

Awesome!! I love that it's huge and powerful looking. Definitely epic!!!
redonix76, my goal is to make something f*cking epic. Thanks, so It means I'm onto da good way, charge man!

About the concept, I already got some nice backstory and I'll post it tonight (he's got golden crabs into its mouth), I'll build on it/from it.
This thread'll be about concept and design first then I'll go lightning/color and mood work into a second time.
If you want to help voting, here's another sheet for further concept development, comments and critics always appreciated even when you don't like my work:

http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/6...tbdwvw2011.jpg

liquidbear 17-03-2011 03:24 PM

blades mixed with moon would look good 2 me

hulahuga 17-03-2011 04:09 PM

What if you have him walking. Then you could play with a vertical line that partly hides his body as he steps out into the light of the world... Think epiiiiic!

Novian 17-03-2011 04:11 PM

I liked it better with multiple glowing eyes down the center. Great design so far!

Cheers~

katana 17-03-2011 04:29 PM

I like this process, it's like stippling with a color palette, more broad than Serat,, but very interesting...good luck.

Cordero 17-03-2011 05:01 PM

all variations are cool, I like wing and arms the best.

redonix76 17-03-2011 06:40 PM

How about a mixed between Mars and Chains? Big arms are cool and chains can make anything look more epic!

Cordero 17-03-2011 06:55 PM

+1

washka 17-03-2011 07:41 PM

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Just a quick post for the background story (I bet it's full of english language mistakes, sorry for that it's not my native language I had to translate all of it), Cordero #10 for crab influence. I brb soon with two mix from last sheet then I'll push it:

washka 17-03-2011 08:15 PM

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Hula: Interesting idea, I'm not sure about the legs yet, problem with vertical line idea it's that I can't hide anything said da briefing.
Reaaaalllly hard to think epic man, I'm not a god, wanna switch brain??? :D I'll try my best! And I hear your precious comments.

katana: Thanks, who's serat? You mean Seurat?
(If it's the case, it's a really kind compliment man, and it go to the bottom of my heart: Thanks. Even if I'm still far away from the skills of this old master one.)

Novian: It's 100% sure I will put more than one single eye on it, don't worry and thanks. :)

liquidbear, Cordero, redonix76: made some mix with all the votes, so now I got two choices, this last sheet'll define mood and direction of it all (copy paste/lill' layer move/darken layer mode):

Cordero 17-03-2011 08:39 PM

I like Bong big time, not sure about the hammer tho.

katana 17-03-2011 08:47 PM

Yes, I meant Seurat, the beginning on Pointillism...which was ultimately responsible for the dot matrix.

washka 17-03-2011 10:40 PM

Dot or splotches katana, I had good masters on threedy.

I go bong with the moon but without hammer then Cordero, I'll start to build on this:
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7...alwipw2011.jpg

washka 17-03-2011 10:41 PM

A lill' step further onto the nothingness.
Is it starting to get epic enough Hula?

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/3...lwip02w201.jpg

paulius-st 17-03-2011 10:52 PM

looking good :) . now that one happy monter god :D .
is it just my imagination or is this moster smiling?

washka 17-03-2011 11:21 PM

He's smiling. He's got some big mouth.

paulius-st 17-03-2011 11:38 PM

you know this monster looks just like me when i saw this katy perry gif in "post a funny picture" thread :D .

capitan_popo 17-03-2011 11:41 PM

looking nice...like the progress

katana 17-03-2011 11:51 PM

I think the legs are going to need more bulk and the red in the sky (yes it's a wip) is too high in saturation. I think the red in the figure will pop, once you get rid of that.

hulahuga 18-03-2011 06:06 AM

Yeah it is :). Now play with perspective, and perhaps make it so that those giant arms are a throne that he rises from?

Also if you want to make him mighty, look over the foot and leg design as long bodies often give an epic appearance.

Vaper de kin 18-03-2011 03:17 PM

Very interesting story in #28 :crazy: It's full of crabs!:haha:

polysmooth 18-03-2011 05:43 PM

Looking Good! Love the proportions.... One suggestion though...maybe make just a line pass...no color, so that u can clearly define areas before anything else.. I know you're just getting started but just thought I'd drop my 2 cents in...Nice start though

redonix76 18-03-2011 06:05 PM

Looking very nice!! I think you should try making the bigger arms have opened hands. He would be able to balance himself better. Its worth a shot to see how it looks, keep at it!!

washka 18-03-2011 11:09 PM

Quote:

katy perry gif
Wich one paulius?

Thanks capitan_popo!

katana: About the legs, he's creating the world around him while he's walking, how can I explain that, it's like a reversed desintegration coming from the legs. but agree with bulk.
About the hight saturation, you're completly right, I'll explain that.

hulahuga: I already got problems with this moon so I think I'll trash it, because it mess with the silouhette, the throne is not a bad idea but will be quite the same problem (or with low opacity or light tones).
Yeah I want to push some mighty mood out of it, but with too long legs I'll loose the big mass effect. (controversial) But I've to put more work onto the legs as katana pointed it out too.

Vaper de kin: xD You read it all, wow! I think I need to simplificate it, and make it shorter, no?

polysmooth: :) Your comment's value worth more than that man, especially coming from you. I really should work in grey tones.
A lot of my works start in grey tones. And I can mess up a lot with colors.
:D Ask Hula. (And today is a good exemple for that)
But it also gives me motivation, and it helps me with the mood.
Here I mostfully used red tones for an aggressive mood, it's kinda autosuggestive, and it influences my sensitivity. It also gives life to it and some flow. I like colors too much even if my eyes don't see it all.
I'll kill the saturation and rework the colors at the end (And there is an hight probability that I'll have to make some tones correction then, but I'm ok with that)

redonix76: The big arms are two gauntlets attached/connected by a bunch of chains. It looks like those are connected/linked to god but I'll have to clarify it a bit more there because those are not, it's some kind of weapon following the god like a free lill' dog, maybe a magical relic another god gave to him after a fight. The moon shape there doesn't help too...

I tried some test to put some more weight on it, but now it's quite a mess, so I'll go back to an anterior version, background is just a test, way too dark:
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/292...lwip03w201.jpg

katana 18-03-2011 11:15 PM

Man, that's some crazy stuff...nice progress.

frostsnake 18-03-2011 11:29 PM

looking nice, liking the design on the god, very massive and huge.

also for double checking values, you could try to put a layer with pure black on the top in your layer stack, set to blending mode: saturation. you always get your correct values with this. so switchin that on and off sometimes helps alot when painting with colors. anyway good luck and keep posting.

The Prime 19-03-2011 08:01 AM

Nice idea, but the colours are off. You need a more refined pallette, the colours just make it look ugly, in a bad way.

Warlock 279 19-03-2011 08:14 AM

Looking very cool design wise. Majorly epic!

The Prime is right tho, you really need to reign in your palette some, its all over the place at the moment. I think I'd recommend taking the blue/green out of the sky, and replacing it with an orange or a purple even, you've got a cool "sky on fire" look going now and that'd push that even more. I'd probably also pull the red out of the character, maybe bring the blue/green from the sky in to replace it. Something to help set the character apart from the background.

Really dynamic looking so far tho, so I definitely look to see what you do with from here.

chris_solo 19-03-2011 09:23 AM

yep nice work mate!
so agree with warlock ideas...

washka 19-03-2011 09:40 PM

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Ok, so we all agree colors are completly off/ugly.
katana/polysmooth/frostsnake/The Prime/Warlock 279/chris_solo/ all the rest and me.
:D
I'll change that.

katana: thanks!

frostsnake thanks for the trick, I usually copy paste the layer and put saturation of the copy to 0 ( there I correct the tones on it), then use the original coloured layer one and put it on top of unsaturated one as a color layer, but your trick is a bit faster, I'll use it.

The Prime: thanks for your frankness and honesty, I like comments like those.

Warlock 279: your comment is really contructive too, that's why I like DW. I'll make some layout test (with just colors) separated from the shape/concept/tone work, and test your idea (I really want to keep the chara with hot tones).

Thanks chris_solo, you're backsupport outsider this year or you're in? :hmm:

Changed shape again, next fixes are colors/ legs & hand defining then I'll push a bit the concept further and go onto some background work, next WIP should be worth it.
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/1...lwip04w201.jpg
[Edit]
Here we are.

tsabszy 19-03-2011 09:47 PM

good luck washka with concepting!!!
i'm a bit late but my vote would have been for 8 for the 1st look, then 15
actually 15 looks like you mirrored 8 you lasy :D
i like the crab people idea as they have already tried to rule the world twice :P

washka 19-03-2011 10:03 PM

Quote:

actually 15 looks like you mirrored 8 you lasy
Noooooo! That's impossible. It couldn't be... Or it was out of my jurisdiction. Can I blame crabs please? :)

Ok, I used mirror, I've been a bit lasy...I won't do it again...or not.... :D

Thanks tsabszy, I'm really waiting for your stuff.

tsabszy 19-03-2011 10:21 PM

i think it's ok for me, but...
(...)
You can use any 3d, 2d, or animation software package in the world to create your entry. You can also use traditional mediums like pencil, paper, paint, etc.
Only 1 entry per person per category (3d Character, Concept Art, Character Animation). Do not try to create multiple entries with different user names.
No Teams, groups or collaborations. Everything must be made by 1 single person.
If you enter 2d part you can't use mirror! EVER!
(...)
so be careful with that :D

katana 19-03-2011 10:22 PM

It sure looks like it is going to rock.

GregStrangis 20-03-2011 01:00 AM

this is turning out great! I like that his face looks like is a disgusting area of rows of teeth. Would love to see a clean line drawing tho fleshing out each area. Keep going!

miclepickle 20-03-2011 04:15 AM

looking good, I like how he is looking silly yet mean...

mix_mash 20-03-2011 04:37 AM

It's looking really good. You're lucky because with 2d concepting you are not as limited to the form as we 3d boffins are. I'm not sure about the placement of the head, though. it says 'henchmen' or 'thoughtless beast' more than 'god'. He needs something to show people that he is a god of something. He needs that presence. You'll have to figure out how to do this on your own, though, because he is your own creation.

Good luck with your entry. I've noticed by looking through the past DW entries that a majority of Asian artists kick ass at the 2d side of the comp. You've got your work cut out for you.

Paul
(mix_mash)

washka 20-03-2011 04:14 PM

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tsabszy: I mirror a lot but then I try to break the symetry, if it's too mirrored at the end please feel free to let it me know and I'll change that. I'll be careful about it during my work. (For research ones, there'll be somes don't worry about those, just lazy ones)

katana: And there will be somes too.

GregStrangis: I'm still wondering if I should open it a bit, or make it completly closed, but I'll keep da big smile. I want to put some interesting mood and focus on that area.

miclepickle: :) How can you already sense that man? You're too smart.

mix_mash: I got complete elasticity, and the technique I use allows it too so... Agree about your symbolic comment (henchmen/beast), and I'm really not happy with the concept and symbolics ones right now. Before trying to detail more and define da shape, I'll first push the concept a bit further.

I want to develop two complementary and opposed concepts/symbolics here:
-First one is the chained/hidden/protected crabs onto da mouth that represent pure destruction (beyond the ultimate death lies immortality).
-And there is a second one I want to represent, it's the creation concept: into its "footsteps" he creates everything. (or uncreate for a new creation). The gauntlets can represent hist creative tools, he can walk onto/with those "hands".

Why creation? Some interesting ideas (don't be too serious about it here):
Because the strongest creative process do not know death, it develops forever above its own path. So it can represents in some sort of way immortality. :)

"Go one step further, but don't forget the direction you're taking, or you'll just loose your way."

tsabszy 20-03-2011 04:20 PM

i was just joking with the mirroring :D i think your stuff is coming out great so far

washka 20-03-2011 04:26 PM

xD

Quote:

No Teams, groups or collaborations. Everything must be made by 1 single person.
Artists wishing to enter both 3d and concept art categories, must create a new idea for each entry. Example, if you make a War God for the 3d category, do not make another similar God of War for the concept art category.
Final submissions are final. Make sure you are happy with your image before you submit it into the system.
Omg you got me there! xD you funny b*st*rd!

tsabszy 20-03-2011 04:41 PM

:d :d

washka 20-03-2011 05:08 PM

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Ideas, need more ideeeeeeaaaaas. I summon' you ideas!!!
OOohhh I know...

washka 20-03-2011 05:46 PM

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Just a torso? Hmmm...

washka 20-03-2011 06:17 PM

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Pushin" a bit.

hulahuga 20-03-2011 06:54 PM

I think you should try to really nail the immortality bit... Is he just not dying, longevity, or is he perhaps seeing immortality in fame or does he even kill people to make them immortal in a sort of anti-nirvana kind of a thing?

washka 20-03-2011 07:34 PM

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Quote:

I think you should try to really nail the immortality bit... Is he just not dying, longevity, or is he perhaps seeing immortality in fame or does he even kill people to make them immortal in a sort of anti-nirvana kind of a thing?
Nope, it's just the death itself that fear da golden crabs. I'll represent the young death onto my final.
That's immortality: death can't touch you anymore. (When god's heart/living symbol has been destroyed).

He's the god of immortality because he carry the crabs, and he's mighty because he's mighty, not because he's immortal. The god itself has quite nothing to do with the power he carry, he's just like one big chest. He really don't give a sh*t about immortality, he just like those crabs. His principal power is creation, but indirectly he possesses the gift of immortality, (that's why the other gods call him "God of immortality" or "The immortal").
If gods want it, they can just come and ask for it, but they have to prove their value during the duel, so he's also some kind of judge.

Immortality is the ultimate power for a god because they don't have to fear the death anymore.
Before they are, their only fear is that their eternity end by the hand or power of another god, = their only fear is that death comes and claim their heart when that happen.
When they're immortal they're quite untouchable, their only fear disapear. So it's some kind of big power gift.

If I flip the torso? (Conceptually the god's own creation has to be unfinished, so its body is not 100% complete)

L3XICON 20-03-2011 08:22 PM

loving this design! -> really nice shapes and form.

Quote:

Originally Posted by washka (Post 846060)
Dot or splotches katana, I had good masters on threedy.

I go bong with the moon but without hammer then Cordero, I'll start to build on this:
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7...alwipw2011.jpg


DaddyDoom 20-03-2011 08:24 PM

Loving these skits washka!
Together, we will dominate the 2D contest.

washka 20-03-2011 09:35 PM

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Thanks for your comment L3XICON. I think I should build onto my initial concept instead of changing it. But the extra work wasn't completly wasted.

DaddyDoom: We've got a lot of concurence onto others forums DD, but our line will stand against those with rage and glory!!!

Some voting help/point of view comments about those two would be really appreciated, small or big head/fat?:

capitan_popo 20-03-2011 09:46 PM

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I would go with the small seems more proportional somehow
although to be honest I saw it not as a head with horns but more of like a whole shoulder mass area like a whole upper body...I hope u dont mind I did a little paint over to show what I mean...and thought it looked awesome that way...not sure if you think the same..but thought I would give my input to it..

paulius-st 20-03-2011 09:51 PM

+1 for small head. its not too overcrouded this way and doesnt look like a big pile of some god. :)

Sathe 21-03-2011 04:13 AM

Feels stupid without hind legs.

what about adding something like this to the back section?

http://www.visualart.ro/test/data/me...llhound_01.jpg

setschaos 21-03-2011 11:14 AM

Go with the small head, makes him seem large without an environment. And definitely legs, if not, then just one leg and make him a tripod.

washka 21-03-2011 05:28 PM

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Hulk + Battlechaser + Venom = ???
Coincidence.

I've erased the arms and joined with big gauntlet, I think it works better like this.

Thanks for your paintover capitan_popo, it helps me, my point of view about the:
Quote:

a whole shoulder mass area
is the same. I'll make a small head but with a big teethy smile/mouth.

Thanks for your vote too paulius-st, the big pile would have given weight, gods could be kinda healthy and have some fat, you know this luxury life. But I think we're on the good way now.

Quote:

Feels stupid without hind legs.
I'll make those then Sathe, I prefered the first posing for your atomhawk. The idea of pet company is not bad, maybe two big doggystyled chained ones like this: (attachment ref.)

setschaos: I'll make those legs man, thanks for your vote!

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/251...lwip05w201.jpg
Some fun:
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9...eptc4w2011.jpg

DaddyDoom 21-03-2011 05:44 PM

First one is pretty sweet.

lvl99-Gamer 21-03-2011 05:53 PM

Yeah the first one looks like a Boss!
Keep it up Washka!

Warlock 279 21-03-2011 06:04 PM

I like where you're heading with the wings and the ring behind him. If you made the ring really intricately detailed I think it could work really in contrast to the ferocious rawness of the god himself. Same for the wings, you could get a neat contrast between really soft feathery wings against the carzy monster.

Cordero 21-03-2011 06:11 PM

why would u put little puppies next to a killing machine?:D

anyway, great stuff, keep em coming!

redonix76 21-03-2011 06:31 PM

+1:dance:

washka 21-03-2011 06:49 PM

Thanks day, really, appreciate your support!!!
Warlock279 it'll be done, Cordero you'll have to wait for the lill' puppies, I think it could answer your question, but here's an explanation [Edit]:
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/344...esdwvw2011.jpg

chris_solo 21-03-2011 09:29 PM

I really like your work my friend! I will follow your thread

washka 21-03-2011 10:25 PM

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Thanks chris, me too (even if you're on the bad ssiiiide of daa fooorce).

WIP right puppie, I'll need some ref:

GregStrangis 21-03-2011 10:48 PM

I like the idea of creatures following him underneath, but right now those dog creatures are so massive making him pale in comparison. Would be cool to make variations of demons and such flowing out from around him to show the scale of your God, maybe the ring behind him acts a portal of sorts? Just throwing random ideas out there for ya =P

washka 21-03-2011 11:18 PM

Thanks for your constructive comment GregStrangis.

Quote:

Would be cool to make variations of demons and such flowing out from around him to show the scale of your God
Hmm, that's not a bad idea, really, and I like it.
The problem for me it's that last war's big 2D winning entry was some kind of big darkness (comic) guy and it was quite the same thing and I do not want to repeat that. :)

But I think that the comment you made about the sizes comparison is right.
I could make those two pets smaller or a bit smaller (I think maybe I'll resize 90%), but I want them massives, bigger than the god itself.
Those'll be chained later to the god's hands, under the god's might. those seems on the foreground right now, I'll move them a bit so they go onto the background a bit more.
I think this size comparison will be my big challenge here, I'll have to balance their presence/aura.

I've already got some interesting idea for the wings that will strenghten the immortal symbolic. :D
I plan to put details onto the background ring surface (I was thinking about symbols), but the portal idea is interesting, what else?

Puckducker 22-03-2011 01:36 AM

Really nice start Washka. I like the overall concept, though I think the wings might be overkill...or at least, the scale of them would seem to overpower your character itself.

With arms that big I would think your dude is good at carrying really big objects. Actually seeing the circle behind his back makes me think he's holding something big up.

hulahuga 22-03-2011 05:56 AM

Oh idea!

You could have him trying to rock himself from the chains holding him to the mountains beside him. The truly fretted god who has to be chained forever so as not to doom the world.

Think some sort of ancient greek Titan, that would be a good ref point.

Then for the scene you might continue on that snow and also use it to portray scale and perspective in a really nice way. :)

washka 23-03-2011 08:37 PM

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Quote:

I think the wings might be overkill...
I was thinking the same, but I'll use those diagonals/hightlights Puckducker.

Quote:

your dude is good at carrying really big objects. Actually seeing the circle behind his back makes me think he's holding something big up.
Maybe he'll hold the big ball (yeah on threedy we got big b*lls), I'm not 100% sure about actual position of it, I think that I should put it a bit above.

Quote:

the chains holding him to the mountains beside him
Thinking about Prometheus Hula :D. I like those titan tales.
I also like the Sisyphus one.

Quote:

I've noticed by looking through the past DW entries that a majority of Asian artists kick ass at the 2d side of the comp. You've got your work cut out for you.
mix_mash: Yeah, their work skills and secret techniques are big compared to mines, lots of talents especially in 2D, they can use strong symbolics.
What I got? I like asian and especially Japanese culture.
Look. :D

If you mix Prometheus+Sisyphus+Ariane (and I can use symbolic too) you can get this ball of wool one:
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8...lwip06w201.jpg

washka 23-03-2011 08:45 PM

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I'll put the ball slightly higher (it will support on his shoulders, linked by air/beard), I think I'll block onto this concept because I'm quite happy with it, maybe a second pair of arms, the lill' wings were kinda useful, next is some background work (snow mountains).
Have to think about the threedy symbol too. (Even if there is already a big ball)
Comments always appreciated, your participation make it advance, hope you like the lill' puppies.

ServantOfTheNoise 23-03-2011 08:47 PM

whoa impressive, glad to see some 2d entries. Too bad the belgium beer days in holland are over I'm sure this is a great source of inspiration to us all. Glad you joined the 3d army.

katana 23-03-2011 10:51 PM

Epic. Man Epic.

hulahuga 24-03-2011 05:33 AM

Okay going forward :)

Perhaps he is the god carrying the universe, or at least the one we know of. A god who walks across the void and frozen wastes for eternity shackled to this world and the next. The one who is truly immortal...

Or perhaps he is carrying it through the "real" world and that ball is something else, but you get the basic picture :)

paulius-st 24-03-2011 06:27 AM

cool updates. especialy thisone with tongue in nose :d.
to be more serious - ilike where this is going and the whole image has some interesting energy in it :) . nice work man and ceep up the good work :)

DaddyDoom 24-03-2011 07:22 AM

Great updates!

Senrof 24-03-2011 03:07 PM

good work man, one question... the pets have some on there that leet you understand that are the pets of the god or lone pets?--- can i suggest some kind of seal,, shape, armor... etc that have in common with the god?.

Just that with the hope of an useful contribution. keep it up!

PEace

washka 24-03-2011 06:54 PM

1 Attachment(s)
-ServantOfTheNoise: Thanks! No more belgium beer in holland?
Why? The stopped the market?
-katana: But still not enough.
-hulahuga: I get the picture, it will give me good inspiration.
-paulius: :) There was an annoying element there.
I hope I can push this one further.
-DaddyDoom: Thanks general, I'm waiting yours now! :D
-Senrof: They're already sharing something with the god, but I think I'll had some more similar elements. I want to keep the dragons quite simple, but I'm not onto the detail steps already.

Quote:

that are the pets of the god or lone pets?
Those two beast are free dragons just taking a walk with the god, they're not really "pets", I'm not a big fan of the dragon "pet" concept, I think the mythics huge old ones have no masters (conceptually).
But your identity suggestion is fair enough, thanks!

Today's updates, I'm not happy, still can't decide the ball's position, you can help me with your vote. I did some color layout test, but it's sh*t, it's unusable, just somes tracks:
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/5...stdwvw2011.jpg

Warlock 279 24-03-2011 07:31 PM

I think I'd have him dragging the ball, so "floor" would be my vote.

You know, you might be able to open up one [or both] of his hands, as tho he's grabbing the ground, and clawing his way along as well.

With the ball, I'd be mindful of any tangents you create with the dragons tails., lest they look like they too are somehow attached to it. For example, the "top" one looks like the tails are "holding" it in place a bit.

washka 24-03-2011 10:15 PM

Thanks Warlock 279, I think I will put it onto the floor (just a lill bit up for depth).
For the open hands, I'll test, I'm not totally convinced, I think a god doesn't need to use strenght, the grasp is humanly convincing, I try to get away from that.
Maybe the dragon tails 'll help a bit. :)

Tip of the day:
When you do sh*t, take a lill' pause:
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9496/pausedw2011.jpg

washka 26-03-2011 10:40 AM

Fast up' from cyber (backgrounds are just moods, nothing definite yet):
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5...ptdwvw2011.jpg
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/7...dsdwvw2011.jpg

hulahuga 26-03-2011 11:17 AM

Have them walking through a mountain range or perhaps those plateu pillars you had in one version (they can perhaps crash through the pillars, truly behemoth like)..

washka 26-03-2011 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hulahuga (Post 848633)
Have them walking through a mountain range or perhaps those plateu pillars you had in one version (they can perhaps crash through the pillars, truly behemoth like)..

I was on da mountains idea first, but I think it's not rich enough, there will be a lot of empty/dead space, I'm not 100% sure it's a good idea.

I could make them crash, but it means I'll have to do the posing work again, and I was quite happy with this one, it was quite the only thing stabilized so far... ;D

But actual posing is not dynamic, I quite agree with you on this point. xD

Now I want to change it... Hula you're really frustrating sometimes, really, but thanks my friend!

G2 G3 or G4?

Cordero 26-03-2011 05:06 PM

g2,g4
1,6

I like the middle compositions better. I guess the glove is depending on the overall style, but those two looks great.

hulahuga 26-03-2011 05:20 PM

g3 or g2

Well you can still have a similar centered composition ;). But I do beleive that more of an action pose will help the image :). Just think long, slow, heavy movements and you'll be spot on (at least in my mind :D).


Quote:

me being frustrating
Great success! :smug:

washka 26-03-2011 05:41 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Some kind of big jump? (Fast one to get da idea)

Puckducker 26-03-2011 05:57 PM

Wow, lots of great concepts so far Washka. I still feel like the ball should be on top your dude, those big arms look like they are meant to hold up a lot of weight.

The composition stuff is tough. I think it'd be best to keep the background from being too overly busy, and focus on keep your characters centered and really jumping off the screen. I'd say 6 is probably the closest to that, even in the background is a little noisy/contrasty, but it has the best balance of them all I feel.

Warlock 279 26-03-2011 06:51 PM

I like the cliff/jump idea, I think it adds a bit of a sense of story to things, a little visual tension, makes the viewer ask "what's he gonna do when he gets to the cliff?"

Of you composition studies, I really like the swirls of #5 they bring an energy and a sense chaos to the image. Which I think makes good sense, if I saw him running toward me, I'd be feeling a sense of chaos as well.

For hands, G2, I really like what you did with the knuckles.

koyima 26-03-2011 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hulahuga (Post 848633)
Have them walking through a mountain range or perhaps those plateu pillars you had in one version (they can perhaps crash through the pillars, truly behemoth like)..


Yes, crashing buildings would be awesome.

washka 26-03-2011 11:38 PM

2 Attachment(s)
-g2:3
-g3:1
-g4:2

-1:1
-5:2
-6:2

POSING TIME !!!
I need to fix on a posing. Which one do you prefer jumpin' one or original/walking one? Your opinion can help!



Quote:

I like the middle compositions better.
Cordero: Me too, miiightyyy god!

Quote:

crash through the pillars
Hula: I imagine, I imagine => here in attachment: imagine this one with da two dragons breaking through it with plenty of rock pieces flying around. I'll just have to paint that.
((o_O) Retreat!!! White flag! White flag!)

Puckducker: I get your point and it's justified, so here I got two solutions, here is mine (but remember that I want to represent something mighty):
-either he uses those big hands to hold the ball? (he may seems too weak to hold it without those)
-either he doesn't because the hair around and his back are strong enough for the job?
A lill' detail: a large mass of hair is quite heavy, think about an enormous one.

Warlock 279: I like the cliff idea too (but Hula's point isn't wrong), about the compo' 5 you're onto the same brainwave than me, I feel less alone, thanks!

Quote:

Yes, crashing buildings would be awesome.
Yeeaaaahhhh puuure awesomenessss !!! :dance: :dance: :dance:
koyima:
Mhhh...hhhaaann, you bre*k my b*lls! :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:
But thanks for constructive comment!

Puckducker, second attachment is an old painting I did a few month ago, it could be an interesting posing too.

washka 27-03-2011 12:32 PM

Did a posing sheet, I'm still not convinced by the jump, I loose all da weight (lalala ballet! Straight!), or he could be onto a rock that's falling (so I keep the weight thing), hmm he could be above the ball:
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/886...etdwvw2011.jpg

liquidbear 27-03-2011 12:47 PM

original with it dragging

hulahuga 27-03-2011 12:52 PM

Yeah exactly what I had in mind. If you want to have a cool composition why not have him grabbing a ledge or a building with his fist as he lumbers forward between the two beasts... Like he is walking on all four or something...

washka 27-03-2011 01:42 PM

1 Attachment(s)
"Seriously?"

Greek mythology: Iris? Hair symbolic: force and seduction
Bible: Samson?

Usually monks cut their hair (religious symbolistic//offering).

washka 27-03-2011 06:49 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Working a bit onto the gauntlet (g2 & g4 mix, thanks for your votes), wasn't happy with the volumes, it's slowly getting out, I'll refine it more later:

washka 27-03-2011 09:31 PM

1 Attachment(s)
And onto the head too, slowly thinking about the details and trying to define the shapes... I think I'll add some kind of helmet/crown, maybe horns, I'll try to make a complete open mouth with the different parts.
Dinner time?

mix_mash 28-03-2011 04:02 AM

In regards to the pose, do not use 2! It looks like a super hero pose. In regards to him holding up the globe thingy, be careful he doesn't look too much like a labourer or a slave. He's an effin' god! He would carry the globe like it was nothing. If he did carry something, it shouldn't look like a chore. You could still make him carry something but it should look like he could easily toss it with his weakest hand.

Paul
(mix_mash)

washka 28-03-2011 07:45 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

be careful he doesn't look too much like a labourer or a slave. He's an effin' god! He would carry the globe like it was nothing. If he did carry something, it shouldn't look like a chore. You could still make him carry something but it should look like he could easily toss it with his weakest hand.
Thanks for your constructive comment mix_mash.
I share your point of view about the infinite amount of strenght he got.
That's why I first wanted that he doesn't hold anything.

But in fact the slave point of view is quite interesting because completly unespected.
Arent't the gods completly bound to their power. They possess the power or are they the possession of it???

Another approach:
Gods can just be the representation of a power, I mean they are the power itself that takes a representation (for the material world).
Neptune or poseidon aren't some waterman with a nice crown and a trident, they aren't the gods of the ocean, they are the oceans ('s powers).

So here we could say that the representation is just a slave of the power itself, just a shell.
I could develop the "doom" approach, the power is something that curse the shell. I also like the weight of power symbolic.

Getting back into the context, in my entry's case (immortality theme), the long hairs of the god "represent" its power, but it's also a curse the shell has to carry (and be proud of). That's why Puckducker's comment is justified imo.
The shell is just a representation (the god's body), the ultimate symbolic can't be represented, it's far too complex and go beyond our limited world comprehension.

Both point of view are legitimate, you decide there is no limits to show something unlimited (he doesn't need to hold it, he's got unlimited strenght and the hairs hold it) or, you decide to represent a limit and you use it as a meaning (he's holding the ball) in this case if the ball represent an infinite amount of hairs and weight, if the god holds it, it means he's got an infinite amount of strenght?
So the limit itself is a pretext to represent the unlimited. Isn't that funny?

I could add it's quite comparable to the paradox of existence, but that's philosophy, not CG. xD

Warlock 279 28-03-2011 09:20 PM

I think I'm liking o2, I'm still a big fan of the potential juxtaposition the wings offer.

Dragons head is looking pretty good, I like those ears. He's looking friendly [mainly because of the eyes I think], don't know if that's the look you're after or not.

washka 28-03-2011 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warlock 279 (Post 849321)
I think I'm liking o2, I'm still a big fan of the potential juxtaposition the wings offer.

Dragons head is looking pretty good, I like those ears. He's looking friendly [mainly because of the eyes I think], don't know if that's the look you're after or not.

Me too Warlock 279, I think it'll be O2, T2 or T3, still not completly decided, but I have to hurry. :D
Thanks for the dragon, I wasn't really thinking about the eye's expression while doing da work but you're right.

[Edit]
Wings/beard work with T2 too

koyima 28-03-2011 09:55 PM

i would say it's between O2 and T3.

mix_mash 29-03-2011 01:59 AM

O2 or T3. Preferably O2 but if you plan to have him carry something (like a planet) then definitely T3


Paul
(mix_mash)

paulius-st 29-03-2011 05:29 AM

i'd say T2 .

liquidbear 29-03-2011 01:13 PM

01 or 02 for me
If going with 01 bulky chains that are looped in his shoulders might look cool

wil_himura 29-03-2011 01:57 PM

02 looks great, what is it? I mean, the white thing that flows from it's back? I like it, quite energic.

washka 29-03-2011 07:38 PM

This white thing floating is the divine essence of creation wil_himura. :D

When I draw those kind of white thingies it means it can change to quite anything, it means it's still undefined yet, it means infinite or under construction.
Sometimes it's just light onto a surface.

But in this case I think it's his hair/beard, and even more... :evil:

I'm fixed for the posing, it'll be O2, thanks all for your support and help so far!!!

I've had interesting background ideas this morning, kinda classical, (T2 posing will appear into the painting too, so the work wasn't a waste).
I'll make an interesting update in a few hours (background one), stay in touch an have a lot of fun on your work for your entries!

washka 29-03-2011 09:13 PM

Hmmm, scouting work is over.
I've got some nice mission brief'.
Targets are now clear and locked.

I'll have to synchro with the satellite now.
(scheduling/ work analysis => define deadlines)
And get some equipment and ammo stock.from the depot.
(Lot's of references)

War is just starting soldier, da storm is in da front.
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/858...ipdwvw2011.jpg

Puckducker 30-03-2011 02:31 AM

You definitely do a good job at roughing in some pretty dynamic backgrounds. With the last one, the image of an Arc (the boat version of "Arc" that is) carrying 7 white robed figures at it's helm, riding a crest of swirling crashing waves in front of it.

Probably not what's actually there, but it's kinda going all Rorschach on me.

Pockets 30-03-2011 07:54 AM

I think what Puckducker saw is really epic, if the god was pulling the arc along, that would be cool.

hulahuga 30-03-2011 08:46 AM

What I have always thought is that that globe is sort of either the universe or the planet.
Perhaps this can be another peoples' view on the creation process. The god carrying the world safely through the fire filled and desolate universe :)

mix_mash 30-03-2011 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hulahuga (Post 849775)
What I have always thought is that that globe is sort of either the universe or the planet.
Perhaps this can be another peoples' view on the creation process. The god carrying the world safely through the fire filled and desolate universe :)

Technically, the universe is infinite, meaning 'no boundaries', so that just seems ridiculous to me. I would find the concept dumb if that's what Washka was trying portray even though it is a fantasy piece. It makes more sense if it was a world, a galaxy or even a solar system. I prefer it if is was a world because it seems more homely. Maybe he carries a world because he's a god and he just can.

Paul
(mix_mash)

hulahuga 30-03-2011 02:41 PM

That's why I said "OR THE PLANET" (as in the WORLD they live on). Plus it doesn't have to make sense if it is a people's belief.... i.e almost any ****** religion out there...

washka 30-03-2011 07:32 PM

Quote:

Probably not what's actually there, but it's kinda going all Rorschach on me.
Puckducker:
You know, I really like your vision. In my mind, those are not the same shapes (but It's abstract, so as you pointed out you can't really tell)

But you're right about the perspective, and thank you for sharing your personal interpretation, really, I appreciate that.
Even if I'm fixed on a majority of those elements (abstractly represented), your vision extends mine.
You allow me to get another approach, in the conceptual point of view, but also in the technical one. I'm learning while I read your words (your interpretation of those abstract thingies), it's a great experience for me.

In my mind every single details of 90% of the images has a definite representation. But I'm still representing the whole thing with abstract shapes, I use my own abstract codes/symbolic to represent the scene.
I exactly know what represent the 7 white robed figures, and all the other elements, but at start you don't, you build everything from yourself. (But congrats, you already understood those white strokes are figures, that's quite smart already!)

I'm the only one on earth who know exactly what each elements of this painting represent, but that's for me, not for you.
I'm not the only that can make an interpretation of those and build around, you can do exactly the same, your definition is justified.
And it pushes mine further, you're helping me.

Same for Pockets, hulahuga, and mix_mash.

Hula has already got somes interesting elements/ideas from those abstract shapes, it's the hot or cold game, he is near it but he doesn't have the complete real thing right now. :D

You can use "boundaries" to explain others inner concepts mix_mash.
You've also got some interesting element that you're sharing with Hula.
Pockets's on the same "mood waves" as Puckducker, same patterns/ideas.

Sorry guys but I'll hold the curtain a bit longer, do not hesitate to post your opinions, I care a lot about what you see, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

The down part?

hulahuga 30-03-2011 07:57 PM

Then I await what you are doing :D

Just getting the brainstorming on!

washka 30-03-2011 08:27 PM

Quote:

Then I await what you are doing
Hula, you're usually good at this game. You win quite 100% of the time. :D
Ok, you already thought about/guessed one of the main point of the image, that's already a good score.

Vitrux 30-03-2011 09:02 PM

Wow, you have made an excellent work, Cant wait to see the sculpt!
I may say that your God is on my top 5 for this challenge !
Congratz. :dance:

washka 30-03-2011 10:10 PM

Thanks a lot Vitrux, I'll sculpt the 2D.

Vitrux 30-03-2011 10:16 PM

Oh, didnt realize you were in the 2D challenge!! :haha:

That is Amazing!, this one will be a very good one... I was asking me why were you so interested in the pose at this moment, now i understand lol. :dance:

washka 31-03-2011 03:50 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Yeah, the posing for me is really important, I still don't get it yet, I'll get more ref.

washka 31-03-2011 05:41 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Triangular patterns... Not yet.

koyima 31-03-2011 07:31 PM

Markus Ruhl

Warlock 279 31-03-2011 08:03 PM

The last sketch [far right] on the most recent sheet is quite nice, very dynamic, and the perspective of it I think can work to sell scale well. I'm not totally convinced on the whole short legs thing yet, so I look forward to seeing how you explore that.

washka 31-03-2011 08:06 PM

Quote:

Markus Ruhl
I got somes from Ronnie Coleman right now, those guys are meat tank!
Graaazy. Are they still human?

Quote:

The last sketch [far right] on the most recent sheet is quite nice, very dynamic, and the perspective of it I think can work to sell scale well. I'm not totally convinced on the whole short legs thing yet, so I look forward to seeing how you explore that.
Thanks for your point Warlock, I'll continue digging there, I got a nice pack of ref right now, Hulk/Juggernaut, Bodybuilding, Anatomy ref and stuff like that.
For the legs, they're really bothering me all da way, I think those'll be small and folded, he'll walking on his hands like a chimpanzee.

washka 31-03-2011 10:42 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Lill' sketches for the 7, will be useful later.

washka 01-04-2011 06:32 PM

2 Attachment(s)
None want to participate to the "Guess what from #123" game anymore?
:blah::(:hmm::cry:

Posing from my god changed again (for good reasons), it's quite the same except that the big arms will be detached, he'll get a normal pair of arms.
(For the elements dispatch I'm back onto my first sketches o_O)

I did some torso research sketch, I think that I should a bit hurry on my work now, I'm not going fast enough, does somebody know how I could represent separation of light and darkness concept ?(ideas are welcome):

Warlock 279 01-04-2011 07:38 PM

So, in terms of the arms, you're kinda back where you started then? As he had "normal" arms and the big arms were detached. Unicorns and dolphins are always win!

In terms of your 7 figures sketches, I think it might be easier for us to make suggestions regarding them if we knew what their purpose was/was they represent. That said, I kinda feel like I'd make them all similarly dressed, maybe minor differences to show different elements they represent or something [if that's what they're there for]. I think if you make them too different from one another, they might end up competing for attention, and distracting from the god.

I wouldn't worry about time, there's plenty left, and its not like you have to turn around and model anything. There's lots of 3D people still working on their concepts.

washka 01-04-2011 08:14 PM

Quote:

So, in terms of the arms, you're kinda back where you started then?
Yeah this body elements composition (except no chain/no "moon"), posing has evolved:http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7...alwipw2011.jpg

Quote:

Unicorns and dolphins are always win!
xD, already tweaked the ribcage, rib part wasn't height enough.

Agree with your comment about the 7 angels, all have to wear a belt, and a shiny (white) cape/robe (and a cup in the hand):
-1: earth/ulcer/disease/mark
-2: sea water/blood/death
-3: river water/blood/punition/justice
-4: sun/scorching heat/drought/fever
-5: throne/darkness/destructuration/pain/agony/mark
-6: river/impurity/corruption/enemy king/armies
-7: air/anger/thunder/eathquake/destruction

I've decided to restrict myself to abstract symbolics for those, =just= abstract.

Otherwise, there is a passage in an holy book I could quote.
I use the reference for the god symbolic here, and particularly because it provide an outcome for my concept, there is no other point.

washka 01-04-2011 10:03 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Do you know the cup-and-ball game?

DaddyDoom 02-04-2011 08:30 AM

Great skits dude. Found your way yet?

washka 02-04-2011 06:42 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyDoom (Post 850641)
Great skits dude. Found your way yet?

Thanks man! It's slowly taking shape DD, my personal objectives are quite definined now, I got the main concept fixed, the background composition and for me the most important: the global mood of it.
So there is a progress since the start. :D

Everything will still evolve more, you know I always like to push the concept a bit further and design or do grazy (useless) stuff. :dance:

I hope your BB's shading is going smoothly.
Did you know last D-war I did a low-poly 2 days (work) entry?
But this year I want to involve myself a bit more and get something that I am pleased to have done. :xyz:

washka 02-04-2011 11:42 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Torso 2, not for the god, study:

washka 03-04-2011 12:33 PM

---and saxophone.

Cordero 04-04-2011 08:50 AM

indeed very chaotic workflow.. I dont even know whats the main theme now, and whats just a sketch :D

anyway, I think the abs on ur study not really correct. I usually make 8 pack of abs, but 6 works too.. either way, the top should be the smallest. there are 3 pair of abs above the little hole on the stomach (its called navel I think) and 2 pairs below which are most of the time not visible.

But I guess u know that it just an artistic whatsovever ur doing, and the number of abs doesnt matter :D

Keep it up!

washka 04-04-2011 09:11 PM

Quote:

indeed very chaotic workflow.. I dont even know whats the main theme now, and whats just a sketch
I was wondering why I was feelin' a bit alone onto my thread, but seems I'm not clear enough Cordero.
I feel stupid now, I think I deserve it... xD

I wanted to play the riddle game with #123 because I think it's a good catalyst in this kind of comp'.
But except Puckducker, Pockets, Hula, mix_mash, there wasn't as much constructive participation as I espected, but it's still positive.

About the themes:

Main one is the center god, he is (has to be) mighty and I've decided he would be immanent (I'll explain that later).

His representative form (physical or body concept doesn't fit enough for me, but being simple let's say body), is the reflexion (carry, fit, contain are wrong too...) of "his" powers. Even if those do not "belong" to "him". He's "got" those powers, the possess symbolic should not be considered due to the immanence one.

I shouldn't try to represent such intricated ideas, I know...

Powers are:
-Creator/Immanence.
-Gift of immortality.

I explained the story about the golden crabs on previous pages (symbolic for the gift of immortality), the god just carry those crabs, he can give immortality to others gods after an honor duel.
They just fight, he can't loose, the other gods just have to prove their value. (Even if he already know their value => he's the first god and the creator, it's just a game, because eternity is f*cking boring)
Bla bla bla heart destruction... Death story...

So he carry the gift, but that alone wouldn't be interesting because amongst other gods that's not enough for war, would participate in victory (greatly), but not mighty enough.

So if you go a step further, after invincibility and eternity you got immortality, ok?
Then after that you got immanence, immortality is kinda part of immanence.
I represent the immortality/immanence symbolic with the bunch of hair/bear/links that'll go all around the place (later).
There is 7 sphere on the back of the god, that'll illustrate the creator part, same for the 7 angels (they balance and close the circular concept, cycle), big stereotypes. (I know, cheap trick...)

Reinforcement concepts/symbolics:

-He's got an ugly face, why?
=> When he started the duel thing, there was too much fascination from other gods it f*cked up the main objective of it, so...
And I like horror theme.

-The two gauntlets (Accesories): Gift from another god, to thank him for the gift after duel. Was a big big big duel, against god of battle. (Might +++)

-The two black Dragons: Company, reinforce immortality concept.
I had choice between: tree-phoenix-dragon-vampire-jellyfish, tree will be "sort of" present too.

-Cup'n ball game (Creator play with the rules), if god opponent don't want to duel, he can try to beat record at Cup'n ball (But the oldest one's got a big big big record).

I'll explain the down part later that just reinforce the whole thing too.
Mare Corpus/Side horrors/Titan pillars...
I'm still thinking about the headress idea of Puck.

Soon I'll post my #123 a more clean, so it becomes a bit more understandable. ;P

Quote:

But I guess u know that it just an artistic whatsovever ur doing, and the number of abs doesnt matter
It matters, thanks for the constructive comments, I got real anatomical reference, but I'm using anthique statues photo ones, they had "abnormal" abs, pillar style. I'll post reference later to show that.

Been advancing further onto gauntlet, there is also an inverse S pattern and an H one I've been thinking about but those doesn't seem better imo, I've a U one to test too. Might/weight objectives, maybe I willl rebuild over or not, or sort of'.
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/748...vedwvw2011.jpg

paulius-st 04-04-2011 09:37 PM

nice hand concepts man :) . just like cordero i'm a little bit lost here :), but i just enjoy watching this thread. :) you have a nice and original style. have you eve considered doing some clasical painting?

washka 05-04-2011 12:13 AM

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Thanks for the nice comment paulius-st, what do you mean by classical painting? The old one? Academic? Realistic? Neo-classical?

I think people talented or motivated enough for doing classical painting (all their life) should start when they're 12-15 years old, putting everything else aside, even social life. A bit sad isn't it?

That sound like 3D. xD xD xD

Here is some fast WIP to show where the whole thing is going to.
And also some abdominals tweaking, the top ones are really small ones, and under the 8 pack Cordero talked about, there is different "belt" (diagonally) crossing, it's still a big mess for me there (and the navel move top or down depending the kind of contractions :wall:).
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/3...d2dwvw2011.jpg

washka 05-04-2011 06:45 PM

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Head wip:

washka 05-04-2011 08:30 PM

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For fun:

paulius-st 05-04-2011 09:05 PM

when speaking of traditional art i ment traditional medium. your style would look realy awsome if painted on real canvas with real oils. in various galeries i have seen works done in similar as your this style and they get lots of atention . yes - people who has lots of talent in traditional paintin are studying in art scools from 7-10 years here and has little of something we call life. :(

i hope you dont mind but i took your painting and did a little scramble in ps to show my suggestions on anatomy and proportions. some things are off and the lower part of the 6 pack is like from 40 yeard woman :) . hope you'll understand what i have drawn :D . i'm not so good in cg painting as you are :)
the last painting of the head looks great. it has so much potential :)

washka 05-04-2011 09:33 PM

Quote:

is like from 40 yeard woman
I like this expression. xD You made my day man, so true.

I'm open to all kind of suggestion, Cordero made me the same kind of advice, and those abs really annoy me in a way. Where is your ps? Sketchbook?

You don't need big painting skills for a corrective paintover, and you've got my complete permission to trash it as much as you want to, it's just a medium.
(See my post #141, I like to trash those, you can even add a mini chuck Norris or an ugly face on it) Additionaly, it was made for a study so you can even trash it more!

paulius-st 05-04-2011 09:53 PM

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ups. :D forgot to atatch the image :D . well now that i have your permition i can upload it without any sence of guuilt :D .

washka 05-04-2011 10:54 PM

Like the new pants, I'm not sure he's as strong as Chuck Norris but he's got strong teeth that's for sure. xD

I'll make the corrective for training, I need to learn more about anatomy. Thanks for your help paulius!

[Edit]
For info: I know we can't categorize musculature features like the following because I think everybody is a big mix.
But here I just wanted to show you where the 40 yeard woman is coming from, just for fun, I think she is even older than that. xD
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/4079/bb1nq.jpg
Be friend with those.
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/5497/bb2f.jpg
Pfff, playboy!
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7305/bb3gv.jpg
Care when you shake hands.

washka 06-04-2011 12:20 AM

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A last one then I go sleep:

koyima 06-04-2011 12:30 AM

lost track of you....

Puckducker 06-04-2011 02:42 AM

Latest update looks nice, the textural detail is quite fetching at this point.

washka 06-04-2011 09:05 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by koyima (Post 851492)
lost track of you....

Step n1: Smell da mood of da prey, or spot footprints.
Step n2: Get da map, update your location onto the grid with topo.
Step n3: Flag your route, decide direction, move, go step n1.

Any question ?_?

Quote:

Latest update looks nice, the textural detail is quite fetching at this point.
Thanks Puckducker, yeah I should stat to think about those, I already got some ideas and ref, also need some more nude body into water ref.

Sparthaaaaa!!!

hulahuga 07-04-2011 07:18 AM

Bwahaha!

Keep it up, stuff seems to come together a lot more now :)



btw before when I spoke of that idea for the picture I actually didn't try to find what you saw or made, more what could be made.... ;)

paulius-st 07-04-2011 07:41 AM

hahaha. lol . i just spit my coffe when seen this prety face :D .
only one crit. collar-bone shlould be lower - where chest muscles start.

washka 07-04-2011 10:39 PM

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Quote:

more what could be made....
You know that I'm as interested by what could be made than what should or what is. :D

Quote:

Keep it up, stuff seems to come together a lot more now
Thanks hula, but I'm f*cking slowing down, now that I've got the image in my head I've lost da big will to build it, when I'm putting myself limits it slows me down... Laaaazy, baaad.
When it was still numb and blackout, it was funny you know, but now that I've quite fixed everything and got the whole image in my head, I've lost da mood. :,( But it doesn't mean I stop, it'll be back.

Quote:

only one crit. collar-bone shlould be lower - where chest muscles start.
Ah ah, I knew you won't miss that, was on purpose because I do not completly agree with that.
On 80% on my ref you can draw a line that extends and links bot collarbone.
Those collarbone are in v shape (from front view, yeah because from top view those S shaped collarbone are already in v shape) in some cases: it's when your shoulders are up, so my v shape is far weaker than yours, mine is quite flat.

Head of this study is golden funny, maybe I'll keep somes features of it for one of the down statues of my entry, inspiration.

Here is some TTips'n Tricks showing one way I work, quite classical but could be instructive for somes learning people (And use as much as you can from your ref):
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4215/tttdwvw2011l.jpg

washka 08-04-2011 06:39 PM

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Hi, does anybody can gimme some advices about the rules you use for applying perspectives theories.

I know a bit about perspective and optic, but my problem is =when= should I apply 2 points ones or 3 points ones (and how), can I use both in the same view?
For exemple, I'm using a 2 points perspective for the classical road with houses on the sides, I want to add some flying house just in the middle/upper part of horizon line, can I add a third far upper point?
Now I want to add some house in thr bottom of an hole, can I add a forth far lowest point?
Are there any rules about that? How they apply?

What about curving and focal issues? (I know and can use tools from toshop for this last question, but is there any rule about those?)
Is there any geometric approach?

hulahuga 08-04-2011 06:48 PM

Well one thing you can try is to make a template for guidelines. Make a point, and then put in long lines from it all around evenly spaced out. Then when that is done add one of these points as a layer in your perspective points...

washka 08-04-2011 07:05 PM

Quote:

Well one thing you can try is to make a template for guidelines. Make a point, and then put in long lines from it all around evenly spaced out. Then when that is done add one of these points as a layer in your perspective points...
I usually use a template for 2 or 3 points perspectives, no problems with rules there.

So following your idea, here I've got a template for a 16 points perspective + central point, got my guidelines, but how should I know wich point I use for ref depending of my space position? Is there any rules? Priority/order?
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/7220/perspective.jpg
[Edit]
Horizon is the n4547a5rf7*47 line.
(joke) Just the mid horizontal one.
[Edit2]
Planars cuts that interesect the center, the image itself is just into the circle zone in approximately radius/2 zone (depends of focal???).
[Edit3]
But this centerpoint is infinitely far away, so how can the planes? Wtf?

hulahuga 08-04-2011 07:26 PM

What I dont get is why you have so many points....

You use point perspectives when you want lines in your images... And they just follow the lines of the objects, or vice versa actually...

wil_himura 08-04-2011 07:29 PM

Hi Washka,

Taking a look at your diagrams post... I don't think you need a 3rd point for that flying house. Good point of this perspective is that vertical lines are always vertical. So, if you want to make that flying house on the right, just draw a vertical line in the right side of the horizon line, choose the height, mark that point and trace to your point refs:

http://lapsusmental.files.wordpress....04/whaskas.png

Wouldn't that make it?

Edit: Eventually, you could also add some warp to the lines if you want to emulate a wide angle lens or something like that.

wil_himura 08-04-2011 07:40 PM

Frustrum is a one point perspective, the viewer. I find it hard to get results on classical drawing with one point. Not enough refs. It's good if you have a 3D world to trace from vertex to the viewer and draw the projections on da plane :D

washka 08-04-2011 08:10 PM

Quote:

What I dont get is why you have so many points....

You use point perspectives when you want lines in your images... And they just follow the lines of the objects, or vice versa actually...
16 points was just for the exemple, i think I'll use a 4 points one or maybe 8.

Hula, when you use a two points perspective (centered street exemple), you're using a triangle representation (pointed to the center point) for an unlimited rectangular area.

Now think about it, an unlimited rectangle represented by a simple triangle.
A normal person should say: WTF??? You're screwing me?
Why? Because our eyes just get a 2D flat view with some low depth infos. We've just got a simplified model view in our lill' head, that's why we're using =illusion=
of perspective to represent image (2D and rendered 3D).

In an isometric view, yeah those are straight lines, totally agree, but my eye's got something like a focal, I do not see real straight lines but illusion of those, I see slightly curved lines.

wil_himura: Thanks for your sketch man, even if I already got that.
When you look at an hight building, the top is getting thinner, I also want that on my perspective model. Same from the top of da building, down part seems thinner. How can I combo that?

Quote:

warp to the lines if you want to emulate a wide angle lens or something like that.
Think I'll use the toshop warp for the curving.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5746/washkac.png

washka 08-04-2011 08:22 PM

Quote:

Frustrum
About frustrum, all the rays are coming from the camera center, center point/spheric patterns (then there is different space projections), that's for 3D render or "3D" views. (Yeah it's still 2D on your screen guys, except with 3D screens/3D lens ..., and even with 3D screen, depth info is reeeeallly low for your eyes)

When the frustrum is going cube then flat, I don't know if there is an approximation of the spherification of the space with a special algorithm or if they're just resize/flatten everything that's into da cam space.

I don't know if except 2D scale resize there is any "spherical" transform when the frustrum go cube (before the flatten).
Because if there is not, then it's just an approximation, because it means you're considering (decompose into) planar surface, surface of a sphere is not planar. But even if it's considered then there will be an approximation.

Rego 2D painting, was just context...

wil_himura 08-04-2011 08:34 PM

Hehe silly me...the point where things get smaller depends not only on the height but also the viewer. So, draw a point, trace to your two point ref, get the bysectrice??( Half of the angle) and then I miss the rule to place the 3rd point on that line. Since you choose all the points... Try different distances :)
I have a beautiful drawing on my mobile phone, but can't upload it right now :(

I can email it to you.

Hopee it works!!

wil_himura 08-04-2011 08:45 PM

I had to solve frustrum exercices when I was studying, but simulating espherical lenses was out of scope (pheeeew) hehehe

How are you doing? Try out "my method" ... The idea just came to my mind, I hope it helps you to get to the final solution ;)

washka 08-04-2011 09:31 PM

Quote:

and then I miss the rule to place the 3rd point on that line
I'm looking for this one right now, maybe I should go look in my bunch of perspective ref... Or google it.

Quote:

but simulating espherical lenses was out of scope (pheeeew) hehehe
I won't try to do that, xD, photoshop is got some niiiiice lens warp tool.

wil_himura 08-04-2011 09:53 PM

There's no rule to tell you how far of each other you pla e the first 2 points, set a radius for the 3rd one. With the radius, and the bysectriz you can draw everywhere. Try what fits your idea.

hulahuga 09-04-2011 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil_himura (Post 852283)
I had to solve frustrum exercices when I was studying, but simulating espherical lenses was out of scope (pheeeew) hehehe

Quite hard to say the least... :haha:

washka 09-04-2011 04:26 PM

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Imo the 2 points rule is the most simple approach of perspective, I think you're always doing some kind of approximation, any rule we use.
Because when you're playing with focals, it seems the rules that lead the geometry is something quite circular/spherical/conical, see the gif.
(Here it' s autodesk 3dsmax's motor so there is already an approximation)
So imo this circle idea is justified, I bet it's in basics perspective courses.

So the 2 points approach is interesting for object on the same planar surface.
In my case, I got floors (different surfaces on differents heights) and I want to give a perspective illusion there.

wil_himura: If I give you my mail can you send me your iphone image? This third point rule/bissectrice.

Quote:

Quite hard to say the least..
Completly agree Hula, but it's very interesting. The way we approach perspective in our modern era is the result of the evolution of mathematical theories during centuries. It's a fascinating materia.
During antiquity, optic and geometry had already strong and interesting basis, today we're already some steps further.

washka 09-04-2011 04:26 PM

The gif should be animated. Wtf?

wil_himura 09-04-2011 07:38 PM

I made a drawing... I'm not sure it's working. Maybe because all my 3 points are too close to each other, don't know....

http://lapsusmental.files.wordpress....4/whaskas1.png

If distance between points 1 and 2 was bigger, The bissectrice wouldn't be that / and more like | hehehe

Aproximations... bah :P

As I told you, since you put points 1 and 2 where it suits your idea, the same applies for point 3. I'd say as far of the other points as you can :D

hulahuga 09-04-2011 08:29 PM

Well if you want the focal thingy, either do it the free style way or apply your perspective lines and from that curve them off when they grow closer to the edge... :)

DeadlyFreeze 10-04-2011 01:39 AM

You want curvilinear perspective the "fish eye" distortion type effect? It's not that hard to setup its a 5 point system.

mix_mash 10-04-2011 03:14 AM

The alternative is to create what you want in 3d with the perspective you want then paint over it as reference. I know it may be considered 'cheating' but it is just an option.

Paul
(mix_mash)

washka 10-04-2011 10:56 AM

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Thanks wil_himura, I better understand your bissetrice rule now, nicez!

Quote:

or apply your perspective lines and from that curve them off when they grow closer to the edge...
Yeah, it's something like that I'm looking for Hula.
On the big central perpendicular cross section, this kind of conical distort is low but it grows when you're approaching corners.

But there should be some geometric rules there, I think the bissectrice rule will_himura pointed to me will help.

DeadlyFreeze:
Quote:

You want curvilinear perspective the "fish eye" distortion type effect? It's not that hard to setup its a 5 point system.
5 points: So => Center-Far Left-Far Right- Far Down - Far Up ?

Can you also go 8+1 or 16+1 ? Circular patterns?
What happen with diagonal vector fields (The 2 points rules in local mode)? Rules there?

Imo I think it's hard, not the setup you're pointing, but the way all this perspective thingie works.
If you've got some good reference I'm really interested.
I'll go google/search my database a bit more, because trying to understand that on my own is a kinda stupid and loss of time.
Thanks for your comments!
http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/8...iveb01ered.png

washka 10-04-2011 11:27 AM

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Quote:

The alternative is to create what you want in 3d with the perspective you want then paint over it as reference. I know it may be considered 'cheating' but it is just an option.

Paul
(mix_mash)
Did some 3D test for that => #179 (color one, volumes are still quite abstract, and lightning s*cks)
You can always cheat, sometimes I do, but I prefer to understand, it's way more rewarding.
Sometimes you can even combine both. xD

This vanishing lines concept is quite impressive (points perspective), because those just represent directions, the =same= direction, (colinear vector field), it's radiant and those are geometrically parallel. Wohohooo!!!
That's really disturbing, because depending of your volume's direction in space, you could choose any far away points.
Beside that your horizon "line" is a plane, so everything overlaps, even foreground elements, horizon line is not just "far away", it's also "right in front of you", that's also disturbing, and I'm not even talking about the bending of the space...

[Edit]
Started right dragon "general please", still messy, need to clean and refine, anat, tweaking, torso+front legs part should be more to the right.

DeadlyFreeze 10-04-2011 05:11 PM

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A "true" 180 grid is laid out as such, with the horizon as the circle if one was looking down or the intersecting blue line if looking from a normal perspective.

Attachment 178079

Of course you can use curvilinear with a much smaller FOV, which seems to be what your trying to get at.

I've never heard anything in perspective called a 'vector field', so I'm not really sure what your referring too in your notes?

Puckducker 10-04-2011 06:20 PM

Geez Washka, those are some pretty solid notes/investigations on perspective....maybe you should be putting together a book after the competition.

washka 10-04-2011 08:25 PM

DeadlyFreeze: Wow that's really interesting for me!
How does this grid work, for the cicular horizon??? (already ~ understood how the mid line one works)
Depending of the object's postion, angle/ orientation?
But the "curving"also change with depth no?
Do you use the green lines too?

Quote:

you can use curvilinear with a much smaller FOV,
I've been using curvilinear coordinates a long time ago (basics), those still a bit numb in my memory, differential calculus/curved surface/vector functions, but I'm not sure I should use something so complicated here? Are we talking about the same thing?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curvilinear_coordinates

Also found this:
http://www.termespheres.com/perspective.html

"vector field": That's not in perspective courses, just geometry concept, I'm switching from the direction concept (that I related here to a line that pass by a determinated point) to the vector field one because it's easier for me, fields apply to all points of the space, in this case I was just thinking about the simplest one: parallel normalized vectors, all pointing in the same direction. (Unrelated to any point) => vanishing lines (those are colinear/parallel in real world/out of a perspective representation)
But this concept is quite messy with the perspective one, because the colinear/parallel concepts change (or disapear, I don't know).
If you've got more infos about how this 180 grid work, I'm interested


Quote:

Geez Washka, those are some pretty solid notes/investigations on perspective....maybe you should be putting together a book after the competition.
Puckducker: There is already people doing that faaar better than me, and there is already tons of books about perspective(s) far better than anything I could even write xD. But thanks for the encouraging comment, I just want to understand how this stuff works.
(But maybe in a few decades, if I've learn enough and that I think it could be usefull for anybody in 2D painting, we'll see then.)
What I've learn today is: About depth, I think our brain is a funny one.

Warlock 279 10-04-2011 08:26 PM

Ya'll are gettin' heavy up in here! Make mah head hurt! I used to understand all that stuff [most of it anyway], then I got into 3D, quit using it, and have since forgotten most of it. Your studies look pretty good. I'm with Puck, when's the book coming out? Might have to pick myself up a copy. :P

The only thing I don't agree with is the bottom left corner, the building. I believe you actually see the second example all the time, whether your horizon line is parallel to the ground or not. Its just a lot more pronounced when you're looking up at an angle because you're closer to the building, vs when you're far enough away that you can see the whole building straight on.

DeadlyFreeze's image is what we see all the time, with 5 vp's, regardless of where or how we look at something. Translating that into art [or even really taking note of it in the real world] is extremely difficult as its a very subtle thing. We're really typically only "aware" of the one or two point perspective depending on what we're looking at. If we're looking down a hallway, we're gonna be made keenly aware of what seems like single point perspective. Generally we're aware of two point perspective because we have a much wider field view than we do vertical field of view. We become "aware" of the 3 point perspective [or in extreme cases it appears to become an altered one point] if we're standing close to and looking up at a building, or conversely if we're looking down into a hole/shaft/deep pit/etc. Regardless tho, all five vp's are present, we're just not "aware" of them because our focus is fixed on only one.

As an artist drawing with perspective, we can pick and choose which want to emphasize a look or feel, and control how the viewer sees the image. You've done a lot of nice studies, and it looks like you're really getting a solid handle on how to translate the 5 vp's, into a working 2d image.

Dragon is coming along nicely.

Seems I crossposted with you. Just want to add...yes...the brain is a very very funny thing, and very easily manipulated or tricked, especially visually.

hulahuga 10-04-2011 08:40 PM

Quote:

DeadlyFreeze's image is what we see all the time, with 5 vp's, regardless of where or how we look at something. Translating that into art [or even really taking note of it in the real world] is extremely difficult as its a very subtle thing. We're really typically only "aware" of the one or two point perspective depending on what we're looking at. If we're looking down a hallway, we're gonna be made keenly aware of what seems like single point perspective. Generally we're aware of two point perspective because we have a much wider field view than we do vertical field of view. We become "aware" of the 3 point perspective [or in extreme cases it appears to become an altered one point] if we're standing close to and looking up at a building, or conversely if we're looking down into a hole/shaft/deep pit/etc. Regardless tho, all five vp's are present, we're just not "aware" of them because our focus is fixed on only one.
+1

What we actually regard as our peripherals are when we grow closer to this rim, and it is only there that the perspective grows distorted... So a five point is not really necessary unless you want to draw an artificial "fish-eye" perspective :).

All in all this can be used to play a lot with the image to create some very interesting effects. And it is also one that artists actually should try to play with more in their compositions :)

mix_mash 11-04-2011 05:03 AM

You know, what you REALLY need to help you with perspective is this: Pay a beautiful female model to pose nude for you and....

...I forget the rest....


;P

Paul
(mix_mash)

DeadlyFreeze 11-04-2011 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by washka (Post 852675)
How does this grid work, for the cicular horizon??? (already ~ understood how the mid line one works)

The circular horizon comes in to play if you are actually top down on something. Since the lens is at a fixed distortion all lines converge back to the horizon, top down at 180 degrees it becomes the outer circle. In the link you posted see the 5 point and imagine those are buildings your looking down on.

It's not really the true horizon per say, but rather extreme distortion cause by the lens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by washka (Post 852675)
But the "curving" also change with depth no?

Depends what you mean by "depth". You have to remember depending on what your looking through is the key to all of this.

The FOV for human eyes is 60 degrees, but looking through a fish eye lens it's 180 degrees. Assume our curvilinear grid is infinite, the more you zoom in the less curved it becomes, but your really just changing the FOV.


As to how much curvilinear coordinate system relates to curvilinear perspective, I honestly have no idea.

washka 11-04-2011 05:59 PM

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Warlock 279: If your head hurt, rather it is a good sign than a bad one. :)
I'm sure those notes are full of mistakes, I agree with you about the thing you say about the building, another exemple about that: a corridor can be seen as a small building build horizontally instead of vertically, you just don't move your head up.
And when it's far (far) away, as DeadlyFreeze explained, you're changing zoom/FOV, the vanishing are kinda closing as an umbrella (I should said umbrellas => lens), the "bursting" seems to decreases with distance.
But I think there is a trick there too, if there was some =enormous= building far far far away, those distorting rules would apply (I think), big scale would open da umbrella, so distance and scale. No?

Quote:

much wider field view than we do vertical field of view
This awareness for horizontal things you're talking about is so true, and it's an important data imo, I won't forget that.
Thanks a lot for your whole comments, comments I always appreciate a lot, even on others threads.

Hula:
Quote:

unless you want to draw an artificial "fish-eye" perspective
Not completly "fish eye", just a bit, especially for down/top/sides parts/ and corners, ok a bit more than just a bit, but not some exagerated distorsion. Fish eye scale up a =lot= center part, I don't want that.
I just want people feel this depth on the image, and get some size/proportion/geometry coherence.
I had Lens 24,0 mm FOV 73,74 deg, on my 3dsmax test, it's quite open, I'll close it a bit to ~70-72 deg.
Hope I'll get some interesting result for this Hula, and that you'll gimme a feedback after the comp'? (if it was worth it or not) :D

Quote:

You know, what you REALLY need to help you with perspective is this: Pay a beautiful female model to pose nude for you and....
mix_mash: I think I'll start with basics drawing with landscape outdoor, there is some nice hight places where I live that can help, and summer is starting.
The day I'll get some money from what I do, some day I'll ask the model to pay me instead (revenge :evil:).
Quote:

...I forget the rest....
:haha: :haha: :haha:
That always happen when you're starting nude study, that's a real problem, but it ends up spending.

DeadlyFreeze:

Quote:

In the link you posted see the 5 point and imagine those are buildings your looking down on.
From a balloon, if I completly look down exactly above a city, that's what I should see. Ok.
Now if I rotate all the space 90 and I imagine an opaque plane cutting it horizontally a bit under the mid => I'm back onto some kind of 2 points persp (2PP). What difers the most, corners/ far top/down, that's caused by the fact in 2PP vertical lines are not "blend" by top/down points in 5PP. But here "horizontal awareness" warlock pointed is a good argument for the 2PP model.


Quote:

Depends what you mean by "depth". You have to remember depending on what your looking through is the key to all of this.
Oh man, I'm starting to understand why this "depth" concept doesn't quite fit, side data compared to pointing, objects there: we see those a little bit further than they are irl (lens effect), am I wrong?

Quote:

Assume our curvilinear grid is infinite, the more you zoom in the less curved it becomes, but your really just changing the FOV.
When I zoom in into fish eye-model, blending drop with FOV, umbrella is closing.

Starting to get a bit more clear in my head, thanks a lot. I'll see how I can use all this stuff now. In fact this kind of perspective approach will be interesting for this and somes other parts:

-Just a fast messy photomontage using some Kylie Minogue:"All the lovers" refs, still some repetition/mirror to kill, lot of details to erase and rebuild, I'll paintover as much as I can.

hulahuga 11-04-2011 07:25 PM

Quote:

Hope I'll get some interesting result for this Hula, and that you'll gimme a feedback after the comp'?
Of course ;)

washka 12-04-2011 03:49 PM

Thanks man!

Did some basic color test, I'll add more tones (and lightning mix), orange/green/brown, some more grey/black/white and unsaturated zone, so just basics here, I'm not sure I'll keep upper red top sides big blocks there.

http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/3...washka2011.jpg

Warlock 279 12-04-2011 07:59 PM

I agree, I think I would tone back the upper red side blocks, they're really attention grabbing right now. A less saturated or a darker red would probably do. Certainly does have an epic, grandiose scale to it.

washka 14-04-2011 07:12 PM

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Warlock 279: I'll make some test with those colors, your color tracks seems a good idea imo. I'll post some more layout test in next days/next week.

Did some concept for the other dragon head, but worked on small size, that was a bad idea. He needs tweaking and more silence zones, still messy, but it's a start:

washka 19-04-2011 08:00 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Hi, lill' update. Started the bodies for my down part, I won't overdetail those but I think I'll add another layer above when first one is finished, (and colors later). I'm so slooowwww, but it's also an opportunity for anatomy learning.
I've also started one of the down side horror but, I'm not happy with the result, needs more work there.
Two dragons are aside a bit, I need to "digest" those a few more time.
I'm also working onto god's gauntlets, and the god itself, that should be for the next update, c&c always appreciated, have fun with your entries:
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/2...p2dwvw2011.jpg

paulius-st 19-04-2011 08:08 PM

last sketches looks great. i like the last monster. somehow reminds me of my own entry lol :D .
ceep it up. :)

hulahuga 20-04-2011 06:24 AM

Pretty huge scene... :D

What is your thought behind all the people, are they all waving to heaven or what is it about? :)

paulius-st 20-04-2011 06:55 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by hulahuga (Post 854705)

What is your thought behind all the people, are they all waving to heaven or what is it about? :)

i think that they are high and they are raving :d

this is the original picture :D:dance::dance::dance:

Warlock 279 20-04-2011 08:39 AM

:dance: EPIC RAVE! I can hear that bass drum kick half way around the world! :dance:


Washka, I'm not sure where you're headed with things as they are now, but its definitely looking crazy epic for sure.

hulahuga 20-04-2011 10:06 AM

Agreed!

You could actually do it like that and have it the god of music... XD Dionysus reborn kind of...

washka 20-04-2011 05:11 PM

1 Attachment(s)
xD Paulius you made my day!
[Edit]
Like the DJs.

About monster comparison Paulius, mine's got some nice hat. :D
It's huge torso + tentacle tail that gives you this similarity impression, but mine is way more ugly!!! (Maybe I'll get da ugliness prize, maybe you'll get da badass one) There will be a right abo too, one on each side, I hope I can make this one way more ugly. (they're da two partygoers, don't mess with those)

Quote:

What is your thought behind all the people, are they all waving to heaven or what is it about?
I had various ideas, hell, Dante, genetic manip lab site/mutations Hula.
Already decided some red and greenish (water) tones for this area.
I'm looking for some "struggling" contrast with the center god => might and stability.
But the rave party idea of Paulius is quite interesting, photos ref. belongs to Minogue's clip so those are dancers posing, so in some sort of way his interpretation is fully justified. I also like it because it kills the serious of it all, and we could say: "God is a DJ". Alternative approach.
I wanted a second layer there and those will be colours, so I get some rave hellish party lab. Isn't dancing some kind of struggling for life in a way? I just want a contrast, so be it. (Blame Paulius for the colors that will come with this then :evil:)

Thanks Warlock 279, I'm really digging for epic, the scenery is there to emphasize even more the main chara, I know brief doesn't, but I want that.

Dionysos, I'll stay on my bearded immortality concept Dr. H, naaah. But thanks for the suggestion.

Some more work onto gauntlet, not finished yet, I'll have to find something for thoses black feathers, doesn't work there:

Warlock 279 20-04-2011 09:24 PM

That's a very cool hand design, kinda abstract or surreal almost, but still looks very functional. I really like it.

GregStrangis 20-04-2011 09:29 PM

Wicked design for his hands!

washka 21-04-2011 06:20 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Warlock 279 would you keep those decoration on the side of the big central metal piece (lill black feather)? I'm not convinced about those...

Guys go look at GregStrangis's glutton, amazing piece.

Update for central elements:
-About god, I changed arms and used some ref for feet, but I prefered old design for arms, what's your opinion? (I want something mighty with those)
-Advancement onto right dragon, rebuild/changed posing, there was a lack of homogeneity there, not perfect but I think it's better.
Did they changed forum's police size???
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/827...ipdwvw2011.jpg

hulahuga 21-04-2011 07:52 PM

Nice hand there! =) Really dig the design and how you used the blacks...

Yeah and wasn't very serious about Dionysus, just put in a god reference if you would go (more) crazy ;P.

Either way you have tons of different drawings going now, let's see a wip consolidation (composition for the main image with the different layers added). I think this will help your thought process a bit and make sure that all fits together.

washka 21-04-2011 08:03 PM

About Dionysus, you know I can be crazy enought to change my concept on a whim, but I like when people give me references because I've got another point of view that's important for me because it helps me to progress on my way and on my mind.

About some WIP consolidation: I was just exactly thinking da same Hula. xD
One day I'll make an article about common thread telepathy, causes are simpler than you think.

What do you think about the arms, 01 or 02 (best might mood)?

hulahuga 21-04-2011 08:18 PM

Yeah, always good with different perspectives and ideas, helps the thought process for everything.

Haha, well number two IS better but I am bit ambigous to how you will have the gauntlets there...(?) and that's why the consolidation will be good :)


Publish that article with on threedy when it is done! :D

Warlock 279 21-04-2011 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by washka (Post 855101)
Warlock 279 would you keep those decoration on the side of the big central metal piece (lill black feather)? I'm not convinced about those...

Probably, I think I'd try to "frame" them in with a little trim tho, that'll confine them, and keep them from disturbing the shape too much.

For his arms, what about two fists together? Knuckle to knuckle. elbows out to the sides. If you take my meaning.

washka 21-04-2011 10:16 PM

N2 seems better Hula, but I'm loosing geometrical elliptical flow that concentrate the shapes and give more weight/emphasize to the head.
I'm loosing stability for might/muscle and I thing it's wrong decision, I think that stability from n1 already give enough might, even more than n2, do you understand what I mean?

The gauntlet will be separated on the side of the god, I'll integrate those soon, I'll try to make consolidation for tomorrow.

Warlock 279
Ok for feathers, thanks!
About the arms, I'm taking your meaning, and yours is a mighty pose, I'll test that.
Why hand below the chin => The god's big eye is closed => asleep
So I wanted this "dreaming" arms pose, centenarians often take a nap.
More I see n1 arms, more I want to keep it.

I'm also a bit embarassed because just discovered that my perverse subconscious tricked me with da shape...
Not really on purpose, wow, and that's not funny. It's not too visible, rather subliminal. And that early goal was to integrate the back big ball...
But then how can this shape representation give might to it? I think I've discovered something interesting today.

hulahuga 22-04-2011 08:22 AM

Let's see the two different arms in consolidation first and then I can make up my mind... :D

TMNI VISION 22-04-2011 07:49 PM

Great , I really like the texture and style of your painting :) .

washka 22-04-2011 08:50 PM

Thanks TMNI VISION, those are tex from brushes, I'll add more tex later, and colors.

Consolidation for Hula, so we've got a preview:

I'll scale up dragons 150%, right one is gonna annoy me with right gauntlet (I'll break symetry for right gauntlet).

About colors don't worry, those are just primitives ones, I'm keeping textures and colors for da end, same for effects.

I'll have to make perspectives corrections, lightning and tones, and I still got plenty of shading and details work.
I wonder if I'll finish this one before da end, I'm a bit slow, and knowing myself...

C&C always welcome and appreciated, even negatives.

http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/1...ewdwvw2011.jpg

hulahuga 23-04-2011 07:21 AM

Cool!

So what you definitely se here is that you need to find placement for gauntlets, god, dragons and whatnot in the worldspace and try to make them grounded whilst still making them inspire awe.

I would also say that the body of the god should match that of his arms, head and the dragons to make it unison in a way...

washka 23-04-2011 08:05 AM

Agree about those gauntlet Hula. God'll be floating above central sphere, I'll add shadows later, two dragons'll be on some kind of ground, it's just that for this preview it hasn't been done, but those two won't be floating. Top Angels'll be floating.
I'll see what I can do for gauntlet, size of those is bigger than god => artifacts weapon gift, and they're separated/independant from god.
I could add the chains again, maybe those gauntlet'll be floating like the god.
But as you pointed, central space need some size tweaking and integration, that's for sure.
Still got to reshape/correct all da scene for perspective, especially down part... :wall:

washka 24-04-2011 11:58 AM

I don't know if I should keep those gauntlets or integrate otherwise.
I've been doing some tweaking (resize/integration), hope it's a bit better, next is some perspective work, then maybe I'll level up. :evil: I shouldn't say that.
I need to finish thise one without lightning/colors for 30th of april, I've to block on this deadline, (I'll also have to add some more midtones later).
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5...w2dwvw2011.jpg

TMNI VISION 24-04-2011 12:11 PM

I like the left one. Gives it more depth .

hulahuga 24-04-2011 07:07 PM

Hahahaha, yeah agreeing about the depth but you really have to make them a more integral part of the god.... :)

paulius-st 28-04-2011 02:53 PM

love the updates :) . i'd say picture from the left looks better. it gives more action and doesnt look so empty like the right one :)
<off topic> am i the only one to spot a couple making love in the holders left arm pit??? </off topic>

washka 28-04-2011 09:52 PM

Ok, so I keep the gauntlets. I've been storming a bit elements, I'll try to integrate dragons better. And add more depth.
I've been moving my place this last week, hope next one I can bring some interesting update.
I've got to go details/tex/lightning/colors next.
About couple, they're just entwined Paulius, you're imagining things... :halo:. All threedy members could confirm that. :D

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/845/stormdwvw2011.jpg

washka 29-04-2011 07:02 PM

About illustration on sphere, I'll integrate those better or remove that because it's too much an almanach imo, we'll see.
I removed my down horrors but still got some ghost from it (reminiscence), so I don't know if I should keep this Big Bad Evil Kirby Head or not? (It kills a bit epic side)
Your opinion count!: Vote for BBEKH or against BBEKH?

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4...khdwvw2011.jpg

wil_himura 29-04-2011 07:14 PM

I'm liking it ^^ Are those happy scenes going to be in the final image? :P

washka 29-04-2011 07:48 PM

wil_himura: I need to work more on those scene so they fit the style. Won't be easy, if I can't then I'll erase those.

I'm not 100% sure I've gain some epicness with new big gauntlet/dragons and composition from #219 to #223. (unconsidering BBEKH)

E4sY 29-04-2011 10:16 PM

The bottom needs something, but the curvy head is not working for me. Maybe stars would work. The God has a really nice epic feel to it. Can't wait to see it colored.

Puckducker 30-04-2011 02:07 AM

Your composition is already so rich with elements I don't know if the head at the bottom is adding much. But I do agree with E4sY that you could use something down there to help ground the image a bit, just doesn't necessarily have to be another complex design added to your piece.

washka 30-04-2011 06:19 AM

Thanks E4sY and Puckducker, I think you're right, this big head down is too much contrast with whole style and composition. It was something like a style contrast, and I tried to get some "going down" punching move, but doesn't fit imo.
I'll remove it and change side parts into two big doors, with decoration on down part, and I'll add water(Mare)/stars under the whole thing. (cheap and fast)
I hope I won't change the composition again because deadline is coming, I have to resist and refine.

vnmribaya 02-05-2011 08:33 PM

man,you've been drawing a lot, great composition, this is gonna be epic! i really like the position of th e god, very nice!, all th epower around, and th e crowd down there, awesome, vote no for BBEKH, and yes for those spheres with vision inside, i think that more dinamism in the side monster would be cool. keep it up with the good work.

hulahuga 03-05-2011 02:40 PM

Sorry but no. Try to keep a concentrated image and don't overdo it. Now go draw and show us some updates, I demand it! :D

Bge 05-05-2011 01:54 AM

Dude wow !!It's a huge project! come on !:lurve:

washka 11-05-2011 01:48 PM

Thanks for your comments!
I'm offline on my new place, and I've lost my USB stick (had to buy a new one for cyber), sorry for lill' blackout. So less updates now, but I'm on it.
I've still got some tweaking work, details, tex, lightning, color, athmos and focus on god, still a looong way to go, but here is some progress WIP:
http://imageshack.us/m/163/3715/wipdwvwashka2011.jpg
http://imageshack.us/m/15/382/colorsdwvwashka2011.jpg
C&C always appreciated, thanks for your support!

hulahuga 11-05-2011 02:37 PM

Hahahah, this turns so strange, but I love it!

The god of party in paradise! ;P

washka 12-05-2011 07:01 PM

"strange", that mean my colors are still a bit ugly. ;) Da blue...
I'll see what I can do, you know that I can do better.

Thanks for your support Hula! We'll see how this one'll turn out...

hulahuga 12-05-2011 07:54 PM

Yepp, you sure can!

Nah I meant partly the hysterical colors but also all the strange bubble planets and things like that ;)

washka 22-05-2011 06:48 PM

bug
Like cyber....

washka 22-05-2011 06:50 PM

Those bubbles are days Hula, first day, second day............ sleeping day. ;).
Colors better?
Still lot's of fixes, MDS'll be sloppy.

With or without head symbol??? => double circular pattern
(I would integrate it more)
Always appreciate comments. Last shots guys, hope your work is going nicely!

http://imageshack.us/m/862/148/finalwipdwvw2011.jpg
Detail (still got outlines and shadows fixes):
http://imageshack.us/m/151/3150/wpdwvw2011.jpg

hulahuga 22-05-2011 07:51 PM

Crazy image all in all :D
I think the one on the right breaks it up a bit more, giving a focus, but you would need to add some elements there apart from the plain white... :)

washka 23-05-2011 07:37 AM

Thanks Dr.Hula, I'll add some decoration and work integration then for the right one.

wil_himura 23-05-2011 03:03 PM

Crazy Washka :D nice and original image!

washka 23-05-2011 09:57 PM

Thanks will_himura, I really tried to dig for epicness on this one.
Hope someone understood the meaning of the 6 spheres?
Hint: It was an easy reference...

So I uploaded my final, it was 1000*1200 (already double resize from original, so low low low quality) and I had to resize to xxxx*1000 on cyber, because landscape not portrait. :'(
My model sheet is the worst ever done.
But I'll post here mid sized one:
http://nsa19.casimages.com/img/2011/...1758958206.jpg
The one I've post as final on DWV site:
http://nsa20.casimages.com/img/2011/...2357108454.jpg
The worst MDS ever:
http://nsa19.casimages.com/img/2011/...2194397920.jpg
The WIP sheet:
http://nsa19.casimages.com/img/2011/...2313920745.jpg

C&C always appreciated...


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