Jason Lavoie - The learning thread of doom!

[Jason-Lavoie]

Hey all, long time no post once again, but I am back... once again

Anywho, I have found myself learning more about modeling, such as edge loops, normal mapping, texturing etc. and this is the model I'll be working on, to learn from

With this model, my goal is to basically have a better understanding of modeling, normal mapping, texturing, and rigging. Also, from here on, i'll be more active on the boards again, because now... I need to focus on the future, and the future is a) getting into uni b) game industry (hopefully)

If anyone wants to contribute their "learning" models in this thread, then please do, or any other helpful info

Thanks all, and here we go:

[Jason-Lavoie]

Here is another update. Once I am done the model (well... hands and head done) i'll go and rig quickly, just to see where there are issues with the deformation. once that is done, I'll go through the model again, and see if it good to go for normal mapping... and from there, make a higher res model (fun fun, since I never model in high poly) and yeah... weeoot.

[Jedianakinsolo]

You definitely got your style from Ben Mathis :P It's evident everywhere.

Looks good And Highpoly ain't as hard as it looks. You've got good flow in Lowpoly, Highpoly is just more time consuming.

BTW, what is this guy anyways? Soldier or something near?

Here's my Learning WIP

[Zcubed]

Hey Jay, good to see some of your stuff again. I do see some of Poop's work coming through, but you have certainly developed your own unique style.

The model looks very good so far. You've really established some nice forms and gestures, which (In my opinion) is really the most important part. Topology should always take a backseat to clean shapes and a strong silhouette. That said, the wireframe looks clean too. I don't know much about rigging and deformation, but the joints look fine.

And now for the best part: criticism! Where are the concepts? I'll admit that I'm just as guilty of this as anyone else, but neglecting concepts can hurt in the long run. Even if you can't draw (I know I can't!) just put something down on paper. Gather your ideas and try a few different variations. That one doesn't work? Erase and try again. Better than deleting a mesh after two hours of work. A well developed concept always means a better model.

This is a great idea for a thread; I think we all stand to learn a lot from this. Maybe we can post little tips or ask specific questions. Not technical stuff, more general technique and practice. It would be really cool if EVERY post in this thread contained some progress, constructive criticism, or pointers.

[Jedianakinsolo]

You've already seen mine, both of you, but here it is anyways, and yeah, I know, the proportions are butchered.

[Zcubed]

Nicely done, Anakin. It's good to see that you knew what you were going for before you even started modeling. Try looking at some references to correct your proportion issues.

Here's a little contribution from me. This is the topology from my last project. Hopefully someone can learn something from it (Or see something wrong and tell me what to fix ).



Sorry if I misunderstood what you were going for, Jay. I didn't mean to clutter up your thread.

[Jedianakinsolo]

Looks pretty good to me. And I think I've almost got my proportions down. Believe me, I studied a lot of references between now and when I started that model. It should be awesome when it's done.

That looks great. Did you ever skin it? And how well did it Rig?

[PhantomOokami]

Jay's back! I was wondering where you went, you're my favourite lowpoly modeller.

[Jason-Lavoie]

Hey, alrighty, finally get people involved in sharing their models for the greater purpose of mankind... or something like that. Ha ha, no I am actually happy people decided to post their "learning" models, shows that you guys and girls are interested in picking up new skills etc.

I was talking to Zcubed on MSN, basically telling him from the first model he posted on Threedy, to how he models now... you could never tell that it was the same modeler. For your model that you posted, I have told you before it looks SO good, and the texture was quite nice as well (I really liked the face) On this pic though, your middle edgle loop (pelvis area) isn't connected to any other edge, and this is considered a 5 sided polygon (or whatver you want to call it) which is an unofficial "no no" in modeling, because you always want to (at least) model in quads.

As for Jedi, I have been following this model, and I can tell you are learning edge flow, which is great, because edge flow/ poly flow is an art of its own man, I have more respect for people who have a nice clean mesh flow then having a crazy cool model, tells me they took their time to figure out the best way to get detail out of one quad, or one edge etc. The big issue I see with you model is that thr torso has no edge loops at all, which means bad deformation when it comes time to rigging. What I do is study other peoples models who I know have awesome edge flow, and deformation edge loops (or whatever, he he) And like everyone knows, I am a BIG fan of Ben Mathis, the dude has helped me so much... so I always use him for examples. If you want to learn great edge flow, and greate was to eliminate deformation issies, visit www.poopinmymouth.com and check out his tutorial videos... my fav so far is the Funge video... he goes through modeling, to texturing, to a bit of rigging. Download this set of videos, and I garuntee you when you are done watching this (pay attention as well, don't just wiz by, watch them with full concentration) you will become a better modeler for it, and have a way better understanding of poly dsitribution.

Ha ha PhantomOokami , thanks for the kind words, I promise i'll be posting more work... more often now a days

Thanks all, AND KEEP ON POSTING YOUR MODELS!!! Lets get the low poly communtiy involved here...

Oh, here is the concept (not mine, it is done by Blake Lowry):

[Jedianakinsolo]

I've watched most of them :P Can you define Edgeloop? I thought I had the general gist of it, but I guess I don't.

[Zcubed]

Thanks a lot, Jay, it's nice to hear that I'm at least moving in the right direction. I'm still a big newbie anyways.

Good eye spotting that n-gon. I always try to eliminate faces with more than four sides, but every now and then I miss a few . If the model was actually going into a game engine, then I'd end up triangulating, but it's still good practice to keep n-gons to a minimum. Oh, and nice choice of concept art! I should have known that you wouldn't open up Max without a game plan.

Anakin, one of the most important things I've learned about modeling is that you should rotate your camera constantly. How does your model look from the back? The side? A bird's eye view? That last one is important, a lot of people forget the top view. You're not done until the silhouette looks right from all angles. Be wary of spending too much time in the front view and ending up with a relatively flat model. Try examining your model from the side, maybe give the spine some curvature. Things like that make a huge difference.


As requested, here are some texture progress shots. I need a lot of practice, as you can see.

[Jedianakinsolo]

Ok, here's a complete shot, like Jason has.



How's that?

[Jason-Lavoie]

Alrighty, nows the fun part

It is VERY imporant to know why you are putting each cut where, there HAS to be a reason, and usually, 2 common ones are for Detail, and deformation. Now just taking a quick glimpse at the back, shows that you get where to put it, but I don't think you fully understand why.

From what I get from this model is that this dude is wearing armor... so one question is why did you make the mesh flow look like he has no armor on the back... (bare back) The shoulder mesh going into the back muscels, or in your case, armor (i serisouly need to learn correct terms for the anatomy) looks like you are on the right page. As for the bottom of the back, this looks a bit messy.

I'm going to provide you a couple of examples here, at the polycount you are probably modeling at as well (hopefully) This will give you somewhat of an idea how to model a back that is bare.

Ben Mathis

http://www.poopinmymouth.com/3d/skater_lopoly.jpg << - This first example shows an example of a dude wearing just a plan shirt, no armor, no nothing like that, I want you to focus on the whole back... its lower poly then your back, but you actually could clean yours up a bit (i'll provide a higher poly example as well) With this, if you are wearing any kind of clothing (except spandex of course) it doesn't stick right to your body and follow the contours, it usually looks looser. With your model, everything is tight, like I said before, like a bare back, and this dude is wearing armor, so I don't think it needs to be quite tight. Also, the way you did the edge flow on the back, you have a lot of "wasted" polies, polies that arn't being used for the "great good" Like I said before, when you are making the base mesh of your model, MAKE SURE each poly is being used properly, each poly you have, each cut you make HAS to have a purpose, or else... it's wasted YEAAAH

Here are some more examples:

http://www.poopinmymouth.com/3d/ns_dodge_shopkeep.jpg
http://www.poopinmymouth.com/3d/ns_tiny_tubbs.jpg
http://www.poopinmymouth.com/3d/ns_empire_shopkeep.jpg
http://www.poopinmymouth.com/3d/ns_mad_dog.jpg

http://www.poopinmymouth.com/3d/funge_ortho.jpg << - Now here is an example of a bear back, you can obvisouly see a difference in the side profile, and the back mesh flow. This is when you make the cuts and mesh flow to follow the backs muscels, what Ben does for lower stuff (from what I have gathered) is follow the main ones. Again, I wished I knew all this anatomy talk, but I haven't gotten that far in my learning... not yet anyways. As you can see, your back mesh resembles this more than it resembles the other example (the example is more closely related to what you NEED to do)

http://www.poopinmymouth.com/3d/delilah_wire.jpg << - This shows a higher poly model, and this one resembles more of how I did my back in my marine model, not alot of defintion because (for me) My guy is wearing thick armor, and for Ben's model, because shes wearing more of a coat, and I find that usually definition in back isn't as need as definition in the front if you know what I mean

Bobo The Seal

http://www.bobotheseal.com/personal_...re_model01.jpg <<- Now this guy has more armor on himself, and again, look at the edge flow, it isn't mimicing the back muscels, but the armor itself. If you were to take the shoulder armor off, you will (most likely) see the same edge flow as Ben's General's shoulders, just have to picture it I guess. Also, this is Bobo The Seal, whenever you have time, you NEED to study this guys models, his mesh flow is THE BEST I have seen, so you know if you are studying from Bobo or Ben, yoou are doing it right... or close to right

http://www.bobotheseal.com/personal_...el-sheet01.jpg <<- Again, showing you a lower poly model, how Bobo does his shoulder mesh, look at the edge flow... each cut, each poly has a reason to be there, even by having one simple cut at the back, it serves a purpose.

Now, with these models, the same goes for the Front of the torso, legs, etc. Pay attention to how these guys go about creating great edge loops around the joints to lesson the EVIL deformation.

Do the same with your torso buddy, you need more edge loops around your mid section, if not, your deformation will be brutal. Just image trying to bend your arm, but with no joint, just 1 long bone... and that should paint the picture

I hope this helps man, if you need anything else, just give me a HOLLAAA Now its time for me to go to bed... its 1:30am Have a good day everyone

[Jedianakinsolo]

Well, it's not armored looking because it's not armored :P I'm modelling the basic guy in his tunic, skin him, animate him, then I'll model on the armor, skin it, animate it and save it as the "Armored" version of the model.

Anyhow, he's really looking cool IMO, I'm glad ya'll are helping, I appreciate every bit of it.

[jdgill]

Jason, awesome to see you modeling again. Idk what it is, but it brings me back to the old days when I first began when I see your models. It looks great so far, keep it up.