Modeling and Texturing Workflow

[lestaylor]

Ok,

I am trying to establish a workflow for creating models for animation. Trying to ensure great topology and detail. Here are my steps:

1) Create rough mesh in Maya
2) Import to Mudbox and sculpt at a high level
3) Import the high level obj file into Topogun as a reference for retopology
4) Save retoped reference as a obj and import into Mudbox for final details
5) Export the low poly obj from Mudbox, Import into Maya
6) Create my uv’s using Headus UV Layout
7) Import obj back into Mudbox and bake normal maps
8) Import the low poly object back into Maya
9) Paint textures in Photoshop
10) Create shader network in Maya and connect my normals and additional maps

Has anyone tried a similar workflow and do you see any major issues with this process? Im concerned about the uv’s, should they be unwrapped very early in the process or can i unwrap in the final stage?

Note:
I am not using any textures in mudbox, just looking to get a nice form to retop in topogun.

[Buzzy]

Workflow is a very vague thing... it differs from artist to artist based on personal preference, toolset, and the particulars of the project. What you have listed here sounds like it is intended for game characters, but you may need to use a different method if you were building something like a sword instead of a character.

You are going to get a lot of opinions when you ask people about proper workflow. The only real sure thing is that certain things need done eventually, but the order and manner in which you do them is up to you.

A few notes on your list:
#8 seems redundant. You imported the model into Mudbox to extract normal maps, you don't need to then re-import it back into Maya.
I prefer to unwrap the model (at least roughly) before i do anything else, just in case.
You will most likely end up re-topo'ing and re-uv'ing the model several times throughout the process as you find problems (such as adjusting the model for proper deformation)
I would highly recommend trying xNormal for all your baking. Its the bee's knees.

Don't get too caught up trying to make some sort of strict to-do list. You'll find in 3D production that there is very rarely such a thing as a direct and rigid step-by-step process. Rather than a river smoothly and predictably flowing from point A to point B, it usually ends up more resembling a tumultuous and rocky shoreline where things flow this way and that, there are eddies and undertows and a general mild frothing chaos that eventually ends up somewhere.

Or for another example, I liken 3D production to the battle scene from the film Dog Soldiers. Its not a clean regimented firefight with guns. Guys are throwing plates, dumping boiling pots of water, spraying paint cans, flashing cameras... every trick and make-shift weapon imaginable, using anything at hand.... anything they can possibly do to stave off the enemy and survive for another few seconds.

Having said all that, I am actually a professional tech artist, so building workflow and maintaining an asset pipeline is my job. It is not for the feint of heart. Haha

[lestaylor]

Thank you!
These models are actually for short films. I am aware of the hiccups that are involved with workflow as I am just trying to get something base down to somewhat follow. Nothing in cement. Just a guide.

I am confused about one thing though. First off, I am new to mudbox, so after I sculpt a hi res model on trash topology, I will then retop the hi poly obj and import back into mudbox and sculpt more. Im assuming I do not retain the original hi res sculpt right, I would have to sculpt on the newly retopped model again. Is this correct?

[paulius-st]

hi.
about workflow buzzy has said enough, but i would want to add my opinion about your pipline - there are lots of import/export steps - the more you import/export your model the bigger chanse is it will F**k up at some point.
here is my pipliene that i use fo character making . ofcourse tools are differnt but the main idea is the same.:
1. base meshing(basicly a collection of spheres, boxes and cylinders)
2.IMPORT to sculpting package. base sculpting - sculpting a character until you get the main shapes and volumes for your topology.(most of the times it doesnt look spectacular or awesome - just a fast sculpt to get the rigt shapes that doesnt exede 3'rd or 4'th subdivision level)
3. export from sculpting package to 3d's max and retopo + uv's . leave my model in max and this model now is the final model that will be rigged, shaded and animated. export a obj to zbrush for final detailing , and when its done i export all maps i need (displacement, normal, difuse, cavity....) and throw this sculpt to garbage.
thats it. so while i mess with maps , my animator can rig and animat the model without any worrying that it will change.
i know maya has crappy unwraping tools and that headus uv layout is great at it,but the less amount of steps is taken to make your model the faster it will be done .
see the difference betvien the number of import's/export's betvien our piplines and gues who would make his model faster .
ofcourse mostly character making piplines depend on studio's pipline so there is no "the right one" .
hope i helped
good luck

[poopipe]

I second Buzzy's sentiments. MY life as a TA consists largely of arranging things so that when stuff goes wrong you can recover from it without losing weeks worth of work (well, that and shouting at minions for not naming bones properly).

Paulius
When you sculpt detail in zbrush (and presumably mudbox) it deforms all subdivision levels - including the lowest one.
If you extract a normal map from zbrush and apply it to anything other than an exported version of the subdivision level you baked to then that normal map is wrong.

It's much better to export the highres sculpt and target low res then bake to the actual target mesh in another app

[paulius-st]

Originally Posted by poopipe

Paulius
When you sculpt detail in zbrush (and presumably mudbox) it deforms all subdivision levels - including the lowest one.
If you extract a normal map from zbrush and apply it to anything other than an exported version of the subdivision level you baked to then that normal map is wrong.

It's much better to export the highres sculpt and target low res then bake to the actual target mesh in another app

i agrea with you 100%.
it allways deforms, but when my final detailing (witch i ment) takes adding such details as wrincles and other small stuff - it doesnt deform that much.
i have a sence i was a little bit missunderstood - by meaning sculpting the volumes and shapes i ment sculpting untill there is only small details left to do.
ofcource if the base sculpt is a lot different from the retopo'ed one than either retopo it again or export the egzisting one.

[lestaylor]

Originally Posted by poopipe

I second Buzzy's sentiments. MY life as a TA consists largely of arranging things so that when stuff goes wrong you can recover from it without losing weeks worth of work (well, that and shouting at minions for not naming bones properly).

Paulius
When you sculpt detail in zbrush (and presumably mudbox) it deforms all subdivision levels - including the lowest one.
If you extract a normal map from zbrush and apply it to anything other than an exported version of the subdivision level you baked to then that normal map is wrong.

It's much better to export the highres sculpt and target low res then bake to the actual target mesh in another app

Thanks for the feedback. When you say "export the high res sculpt and target low", do you mean exporting normal maps, etc. from the high res sculpt, and applying to the low res mesh, right?

[poopipe]

no

i mean export the high res model and the low res model and bake the maps in something that's good at baking (ie xnormal or max)

zbrush is crap at baking normal maps, as is maya. I have no idea about mudbox

paulius - i thought as much. just wanted to clarify

[lestaylor]

Originally Posted by poopipe

no

i mean export the high res model and the low res model and bake the maps in something that's good at baking (ie xnormal or max)

zbrush is crap at baking normal maps, as is maya. I have no idea about mudbox

paulius - i thought as much. just wanted to clarify

Ok cool. I have only used mudbox for baking normals, and it seems to do okay. I just saw where xnormal is free so Ill give that a try. Thanks.

[Deo85]

Interesting this is what I been doing I constantly am re defining my work flow to try and find the best one:

1) Generate base mesh in 3DS Max
2) Take base mesh and generate high res mesh in zbrush
3) Retopo high res mesh to generate new low res mesh in Zbrush (Looking for a different program to do this thinking of trying topogun)
4) define UVW in Zbrush using there unwrap tool
5) Poly Paint model in Zbrush after dividing models as high as they can be sense more polys = more pixils to paint with
6) Generate Normal / Displacement / Diffuse / Cavity / AO maps from Zbrush
7) Render model in 3DS Max with Maps / Low poly model

I have been looking at different ways to start the process such as is it better to start the model process in Zbrush with Zspheres -> Dyno mesh to create the mass of the model -or- should I be creating the base model in 3DS Max?

I used to always make it in 3DS Max as I felt that zspheres generated to many polys to use as a base mesh but with the introduction of Dynomesh allows me to sculpt with out poly stretching which makes me happy and I can produce my base mesh 10x faster then pixel pushing in 3DS Max.

Texturing stage tends to be a combo of Zbrush poly painting and Photoshop touch ups or decal adding. I love painting on the 3D surface as its much easier to visulize were your textures are going on a 3D object over just painting the flat unwrap plus you bypass seam issues then. The downfall of this is that I have to subdivide my mesh into the millions to get the amount of polys I want to paint on. I then have to remove the top layers to get to a layer that will let me generate my normal and displacement mesh at.

I have been thinking of swapping to this program to do my poly painting: http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/mari/

What do you guys use to texture your models? What do you think of my work flow?