How Much Is Important 2d Drawning Skill In 3d

[bobi]

I'am starting this thread becouse this question still bothers me.
I have asked a many people about this & everybody have the diferent answer.

It's about 3d modeling& 2d drawning.

Can we, the pure mortals (me at the first place), without drawning talents & skills be able to make a good 3d picture.
If, not then we are stick to use a references.
But what if you want to create a whole scene, for example a long time lost dwarf dungeon, how then can we get to the details.
Even if we menage to get some references, I think people with the talent will much easier put them all togeder in the same scene, get better lights, materials...
Now, I am not that depressed, just trying to get better&better.

Simpe:
HOW MUCH IS IMPORTANT YOUR 2D SKILLS, WHEN YOU TRYING TO LEARN AND USE SOME OF THE 3D PAKAGE?

What do you people think about this?
I think this is very important, and wish that many of you give their toats about this.

Untill, then,
bue...

[andoy]

To be honest i cannot draw 2d at all, but i did get an A level for 'Technical drawing' and 'design technology' so i guess my schooling helped me immensly for the actual putting together of the model and visualising it in 3d,
But as far as 2d drawing is concerned, it all depends on what you are trying to achieve,
If you are trying for architectural visualisation then a background in tech drawing is an advantage but i have seen many people who can visualise in 3d better than 2d.
at the end of the day go for it and do your best wether you can paint or not..

[bobi]

Andoy, what if someone don't have scoolarship oportynity like you?
I can visualise better 3d then 2d, but it's still worse (I think) then everybody who have the same level of egnoulidge, but have a better drawing talents then me.
Like someone already had said on this site:" ALL I WANT IS TO MODEL A GUN, TO KILL MY SELF BECOUSE I DON'T KNOW TO MODEL.
BUT, MY GOOD...
I CAN'T EVEN MODEL A GUN...
That's the poent.
Again, I think... this is a very important stuff, and I think that many people bother the same problems like me (althrought, we will never give up of our 3d pakage).
The much answer I've got here, the more I, and the other people will learn.

This is not a simpple question.

Thanks again Andoy & Rinne.

Everebody else...

Don't be affraid to show your thoats about this...

It's the only way, when we can learn from each-other (I'ts patetic, isn't it?).

[Puckducker]

Aye, this is a question that I get a lot. Particularly from beginners who think that traditional art and digital are two separate things and really don't relate to each other.

So, the easy answer...if you have never picked up a pencil or brush in your life, can you still create something beautiful with 3D software?....YES, you can most definitely do good work without having a strong traditional art background.....

....however, that being said, I think traditional art skills are of PARAMOUNT importance in the 3D relm if you ever want to become serious about 3D. Not only will it improve your knowledge of composition, design, form, mass, gesture, colour...but your creativity will also be sparked by it as well. Trust me, after a few weeks of a life drawing class you will see a marked improvement in your 3D work.

It is much easier to quickly communicate idea's in 2D than it is 3D. I almost always do quick, very rough, sketches of work I'm doing in order to understand and plan out how I'm going to do it in 3D. I usually observe a sketch or design I'm working from for a few hours before I even go in to model it. I'm not a particularly amazing traditional artist (though I very much enjoy traditional painting), but just the knowledge I have gained from sketching nude figures, and understanding form and mass, I wouldn't trade for years of 3D experience.

I'd say, above all else, if you want to go somewhere in this industry....sign up for a life drawing class. Chances are if you have an art center somewhere in your town, they have life drawing sessions that you can go to whenever you want, and you're free to just sit down and sketch away. Even if you've never done it before, go there and observe how others are working and learn from them. I personally try to make a 5 or 6 life drawing sessions a month. Trust me, it will make a very large improvement in your work.

So, in answer to the original question, while I don't think that remarkable skill in 2D traditional art is required to create good, solid 3D work, experience in the 2D field is a must. You'll learn so much by just picking up a pencil or brush every now and then, regardless if you're drawing masterpieces or not.

If I had to give one piece of advice to prospective CG artists it would be that....don't shrug off traditional art, embrace it and it will in-turn enrich your 3D stuff more than you could possibly imagine.

[Mr. Bluesummers-3DT]

Quick Reply
This strikes me as being one of those issues regarding the separation between "Art Theory" and "Art Capacity". The first refers to the ideas of form, placement, mesage, and all those aspects of art that transcend the medium used. The latter refers to your ability to use the medium at hand- be it pencils, guitars, or a mouse and keyboard. Know your art theory. But don't worry- I can't draw for beans either. I barely manage to scratch out an idea on the back of a piece of trash before I forget it. But *shrug*. Bay Raitt started out in 2d. I have a sketch by him somewhere in my dorm. =D

Gotta go gents, my shift's over and I'm starved.
Good luck!

[Thykka]

Short answer: no.
Long answer: If you're into modeling cars and interiors ant that kind of inorganic stuff you can still do amazing stuff with almost no drwaing skills. However there will become a point where preliminary sketching and planning is required or at least very very helpful. You'll have very difficult time to model people and critters without concept sketches. And even if you only did interiors I'd highly recommend you'd study the basics of composition and color theory because it will show in the results.
I can't draw very well, but I can't model organic things very well either. The times I do actually use a concept sketch as a base for my modeling I really do notice a big difference in the end results compared to the stuff I model without sketches.
Also texturing organics is easier if you can draw, but that isn't as visible as in concept sketching. I recommend you buy a book which concentrates on drawing comics as they are really good (especially manga) on telling how to decipt emotions and basic anatomy. So: you don't have to be Feng Zhu to do 3d stuff, but it helps a lot

[RickStefani]

I agree with puckerduck. I think that if you are good at 3D but never drew before, with a little training, you can be good at 2D. It all has to do with the same skills. Both take the same ability to accurety judge size and perportion. You can be good at 3D but not 2D because you spent all your time learning 3D. My 2d is not as good as it should be. Most of the time I draw it is just to sketch out ideas before I model and they are very rough.

[bobi]

Thanks all, for answers, you people realy (I sopose,not just to myself) give me hope.

Now, abot my 2d skills.
I have taken many time pencil, and draw in 2d.
I like to draw trees when I'am nervous.
Before 4 or 5 years when I was on the sea (In some hospital, for recreation), I draw much, becouse I don't like sea, and after 3 days on the same picture I have manage to draw the whole scene in qualyty something like strip page.
So I have drawn many times, but the problem begins when I try to draw something diferent then trees.

PUCKDUCKER:


Thank's for a long reply (althrought It's been short for me).
So, if I understand you correctly, you said that even I don't know to draw good, it is always good to make some sketches.
I have never done that, and I'l try it.
About drawing class, I think that my town don't have something like that, but my friend is convinsient that he can learn me to draw good (He beleaves, that everybody have a drawning skills).

GUY BLUESUMMERS:

You have helpped people here many times, and sorry, but I think that I don't understand your reply much.
The problem is not a new fresh idea.
The problem is get idea realised.
But, As I said I don't think that I understand you correctly.

RINNE:

I'am affraid that you are right, my friend, but I will still not quit from trying.

THYKKA:

I agrred with you that it's allmoust imposible to draw a organic object without references, but I think that is good to have a reference also with inorganic object.
See, I'am somethimes satisfied with materals, and somethimes I don't.
About books...
Can you tell me the name of that books?
Thanks.

RICKSTEFANI:

So, you beleve too, that everybody with much practise can draw in 2d?
But if you try (for example) to draw a chair, and do it 100 times, offcourse that your 101 chair will be much better then the first one.
The problem is when you change the subject, and (for example ) try to do a highly detailed, king throne.
But, thank you anyway.


I'ts begin to get a interesting subject, and you people helped a lot.
But, I have typed too much for now, wich I don't like.
Very much I like to read your replies.

With all respect...
bobi

[RickStefani]

I would not say everyone can. I am just saying that if you have the nack for 3D then you probably have it for 2D as well, you are just not practiced at it.

[Master_Blaster]

The thing is that you usually don't have to get your own referece (i am talking in the industry, if you get a job-but not only).When you have to model a character for example the design will come to you.But if you want to learn and you have a wooden hand and just can't draw than you can search google for refs that are similar to what you are looking for.But sincerly i think 2D makes learning easier.I can't do my work without some drawings!

[Puckducker]

Same here Master....most of my work I couldn't get to the level I want it, without just some basic sketches and drawings to help me understand how I'm going to put it together.

It's not just about actual traditional drawing though....use photoshop if you want (you'll need a tablet though) and just paint things. Want to create a full blown scene in 3D? Do a real quick and dirty painting of it in photoshop, and that way you can solve all of your composition and design issues right then and there. You can also figure out how to light the scene in photoshop....so by the time you go to create the scene in 3D you've really got half the footwork done and it's just about actually building the stuff rather then you having to constantly ask "what's going to look good?"

[GraphicDragon]

Drawing skills are very important in regards to 3D design and modeling. Not just for creating your own reference images but also for understanding important concepts such as mass, contour, balance, structure, line flow, dynamic pose, etc. The good news is anyone can learn techniques that help that image in the mind come out on paper (and then into the computer).

Learning to draw in a classroom setting is much faster because of the instant feedback and the presence of peer pressure (the good kind) for motivation but not everyone has access to this. A great second option is with quality book instruction and lots of self motivation. I recommend two books that are just right for someone that has not done any serious drawing since they scribbled with crayons in grade school.

The first book is "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" by Betty Edwards. This will teach the techniques for looking at things in a way to more accurately reproduce them on paper. If the sections on brain theory bore you, just skip those parts. The rest is very useful. There is a newer version titled, strangely enough, "The New Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" with some added content.

The second book is "Drawing for Older Children and Teens: A Creative Method That Works for Adult Beginners, Too" by Mona Brookes. Don't let the title mislead you. This is just right for adults and you wont be drawing Disney characters. This book is every bit as good as the other and the focus is more on creativity. I believe it is more fun and better resembles the instruction in a good classroom setting.

Both books are popular enough that they should be at your local library but if not they are inexpensive through Amazon.com.

You owe it to yourself to develop your drawing skills. I guarantee it will improve your abilities as a 3D artist.

[insect]

In my experience, classic draftsmanship skill helps 3d work in these ways:

1. As already mentioned - you can sketch your ideas faster, you can do alot of planning faster on paper than in 3d.
2. Understanding and applying various concepts like composition, lighting, values, mood, space, construction, movement, contour, contrast, etc. is easier and faster when drawing.
3. In case of academic drawing, there is a concept of building the illusion of 3d by correctly using contrast, value and texture of an area (lighting not included): crosshatched or textured foreground against flat smudged background (texture looks closer to the viewer), dark fg lines/tones against light lines/tones for the bg, more contrast for fg, less for bg - once you get the idea of these concepts and start applying them correctly you begin to feel the 3d form as it is in reality and are able to more or less "sculpt" it in paper (rather just draw what you see, like a camera, making a lens out of your eye, film out of your hand and an empty box out of your head). Sculptors are usually the best draftsmen and good draftsmen are usually good sculptors due to this ability to feel the 3d form. I need not mention that 3d has alot to do with this.
4. There is the concept of construction in academic drawing as well. It's about the ability to simplify the 3d object you see into geometric forms, specific parallel lines (going into a vanishing point, alowing you to draw an object correctly according to perspective) , specific angles and spacial/proportion relationships of elements one to another. When you are able to construct, you start working in 3d on paper, you no longer copy flat patterns you see onto a flat piece of paper, you start understanding perspective and building 3d space inside the paper. The ability to simplify lets you understand the essence of an object - what makes it look like what it is (for example, how a skull of a cow looks like one and what is the difference of large masses from that of a horse skull). The ability to shape 3d space on/in the paper benefits your understanding of 3d form even more. You also learn how to better analyze the objects you need to recreate as the proportions are easier to remember in construction. As is the case with the human face. Check this drawing walk-thru by Andrew Jones, he starts with the construction first, then builds on top of it: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=53555
Also, check out Loomis' books on www.saveloomis.org, he has an easy to understand construction of the head, "drawing the head and hands" is worth to check out.
5. In certain drawing and painting styles (close to academic), hatching in drawing and pain strokes in painting follow the form of the object - you learn TONS about topology when you practice drawing/painting like that.
6. Ability to render how lighting affects a surface lets you spot potential problems in 3d when the lighting doesn't help to represent the 3d form.
7. Of course the ability to draw does help when working with textures.
8. Learning to paint helps alot in terms of color. As you might guess, that is important.

IMHO, the better understanding of 3d form, resulting in quicker and further artistic growth is THE important reason why drawing helps and why it's worth learning. Practical reasons like faster planning are nice side effects.

It is possible to be good at 3d and not be able to draw, but in that case you're quite limited, you're more likely to be called a good 3d mechanic [being able to operate the software, understand the physics light/material of real world and be able to replicate them in 3d and represent an object in 3d from blueprints] than a 3d artist [one understanding how visual elements affect one another, how the whole affects the emotions of a human being and effectively using that to convey your ideas and make a visually striking/memorable image/animation].

I've been actively learning to draw for a bit more than a year now, in result i forgot alot in terms of 3d technique, but I don't regret it - i've grown artisticly way more than I could've by just studying 3d twice the ammount of time. And even though I forgot tricks of how to effectively use tools, the quality of my 3d work has improved.

[RickStefani]

A agree completely with insect. This is why I chose an Art school to get my 3D animation degree rather than a tech school. The two years of life drawing are paying off.