Jason Lavoie - The learning thread of doom!

[Perversonality]

Well, this was tonight's effort from me. Anatomy you say? Yep, she's definitely got some of that!



Strongly based on the cartoon style of Olivier Couston, especially the exaggerated proportions. I was aiming for around 2000 triangles for the whole figure, and this is 1586 so far, so I should be within budget if I don't model every finger... The layout is a close(ish) copy of the way Olivier makes his models, though my low poly requirement meant that I had to get creative, and my reference images didn't show all angles, so some if it is made up to look right. Because of this I'm not taking any credit for the style or design at all. This was simply an exercise in seeing how someone else creates their model flow and seeing if it is something that will help me with my topology.

[bounchFX]

Originally Posted by Johny

you guys should learn anatomy before trying to even attempt, because you wont know what you are doing . learn muscle flow, where each muscle is placed why it is placed there, and so on, it might be boring but is well worth it.

**** man, I totally forgot about that, I meant to start doing that, as I set aside a couple of my books to start looking at them, especially when I was modeling, great reminder, as I have like 3-4 anatomy books, I'm definatly going to start looking at them especially to smooth out my characters vertexes

[Jason-Lavoie]

WEoot, hey perver can we see like an example of this dudes (or dudets) concepts, or models, cause it is a cool style, and I would like to get an idea of how this person draws or models... or whatever (i didn't catch if the person draws or whatever else)

So here is another small little update before I move onto the head, I am really happy with the mesh flow now (i am sure there is TONS of tweaking ahead still) but as for making the model flow... poly wise, I am quite happy. The torso was really dense, so I fixed that, I also fixed the ****** area, and I think a bit more tweaking will have it looking correct. I still need to work on the butt, but this gives me a nice flow ot work with.

[Jedianakinsolo]

There's triangles on his shoes, knees, groin, hand, shoulders. Good grief, some guy () told us that when there's still triangles laying around like that, it means you've got more work on that area...

If I could only remember that guy's name....

[Zcubed]

Interesting style, Perversonality. I think everything from the waist down looks good, but some of the other parts (The head in particular) need a bit more work.

Good stuff, Jay. The latest update looks significantly optimized. Go faster; I want to see what the head looks like!

Anakin, don't fear the triangles! There's no reason to waste geometry with a quad when a tri will do the job just as well. Triangles can cause problems in animation and subdivision, but feel free to use them whenever you think that you can get away with it.

And here's a quick update from me. I think I'll try texturing this guy tomorrow. The final triangle count is around 820.

[Jason-Lavoie]

Hmmm, either I wrote it wrong, or you may have mis understood, let me show you what a model looks like when it is usually imported into a game:



Triangles arn't bad at all man, its the 5 sided polygons that are a no no. It is better to have quads set up because it is much easier to follow (and there maybe a more technical reason as well) but once you export it into a game... its converted to tris. The reason why I use those tris there is because 1) Its a habit, I don't know when I picked it up... but I use it ever since 2) it helps define certain points of the model.

Now, some tris (such as the butt) still needs messing around with, as for the shoes, take a gander at this: http://www.bobotheseal.com/personal_...runt_model.jpg

Its helps to define the shoe without "wasting" quads, which are more valuable to models such as Bobo's (the really low poly ones)

Also, don't get that "tris are bad, never use em" in your head, lol, cause that isn't right, so I probably wrote something wrong, he he, I am learning too

Also, some people actually prefer modeling in Tris (for 3d max... edit mesh mode)

[Jason-Lavoie]

Gah Zcubed, you posted right before me you tricky dude... you beat me to the punch, and your explanation about tris was better, HAZAA.

I am really digging the head, the side profile is great man, I like the style, but once thing us low poly modelers must ALWAYS remember, silhuette is KEY to low poly models... it is really important now a days because of normal mapping. So check out your side profile, and look how blocky it is (the top and back of the head) add in a couple more cuts to make it nice and smooth.

Your edge flows are looking great buddy, you definatly understand it, which is probably one of the hardest things to do (in my mind anyways) so congrats on that, cause it looks great. Couple of things I have picked up from asking and nagging other people, around the mouth, if you want to get rid of deformation, add one more edge loop around the lips, like 1/4 of a centimeter, and make sure you don't weld the edge of the lips together, again, if the model shoudl "talk" he needs that extra tri (or quad) there so that it can stretch... an example: http://www.bobotheseal.com/personal_...head_model.jpg

Although this is in meshsmooth mode, you can still see what I am talking about (I hope, if not, i'll find another example) Also, take a look at this example right here, I want you to focus on the jaw line, see how Bobo does the edgle flow, it definatly gets the job done to make the jawline more aparent: http://www.bobotheseal.com/portfolio...oah_pariah.jpg

Alrighty, weooot

[Zcubed]

Thanks a lot, Jay!

You're right about the silhouette. Sometimes I get so wrapped up in making the wireframe look nice that I forget about the actual shape of the model. As you suggested I've smoothed out the top of the skull a bit more, and made the jawline more apparent. I've decided not to reword the corners of the lips only because this model will not have an inner mouth. You're correct though, the current setup would not be appropriate for a talking model.

He didn't look quite human to me, so I figured he'd be undead (Complete with super cool vampire collar!!!). I really need to work on my texturing, so I should have a lot of fun painting this bust tomorrow. Let me know if there's something wrong, so I can change it before I start mapping.

[Jason-Lavoie]

Looks good to me, all I suggest is bring the brow down a bit, so it looks like he is frowning, i've never met a happy undead guy... ALSO, lol... bing one park of his lip up... and just make a plan to look like teeth, so it looks like his lip is being stretched upwards, that ALWAYS gives a undead model look great.

[Rhauk]

Originally Posted by Jedianakinsolo

Ok. Well, for the feet, there's this really neat thing called the Scale tool. :P

As for the chest.... Well, look through that reference folder I linked to and see what others have done for the chest.

And to do a polycount, convert your model to Editable poly, go to the Tools tab, click More, and select the Polygon counter :D

Scale? :O
Anyways, yeah, proportions, proportions, proportions. I don't have a faintest idea where to find good refferences, and I'm also not willing to go buy/borrow books, etc., since I really don't take this stuff that seriously (yet?), seeing as how I pretty much just started, and I'm not going to take this to anywhere close to proffesional, I just mess around with it when I'm bored, etc.
But thanks for the tips, Jedi :P

[Perversonality]

Originally Posted by Rhauk

I don't have a faintest idea where to find good refferences, and I'm also not willing to go buy/borrow books, etc., since I really don't take this stuff that seriously (yet?)...

Google is your friend...! search for photos of people, other people's concept art, other people's models, game art, anthing that can be used as a reference. For male proportions I have the following image, which I can no longer remember where I got it from:



For Olivier's site, check out http://soletme.free.fr/ or http://*****cat.cgsociety.org/gallery/. He has a great sense of style and cartoon proportions. His mini Stormtrooper is really great, and I based my model on his Lara Croft.

Edit: Ok, censored again! p_ussycat.cgsociety.org/gallery (minus the _ character)

[Jedianakinsolo]

Link still don't work

Lol, Jason, sorry, I was joking :P You mentioned earlier that if there were triangles around in your model, you probably were going to work on it some more lol, so I took it upon myself to help you out :P Sorry for the misunderstanding. I'll put [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags around stuff like that next time

I'm mapping my guy now, he's turning out halfway decent, not much stretching at all, though that checker pattern is blinding me. I saw another checker pattern around awhile back, purple and green and numbered. Anyone know where that is?

[Perversonality]

For some reason it only works if you add the trailing / after gallery... Some hosting companies need to be shot!

[Johny]

zcubed : looking better, but i still see some polygons wich the flow isnt very organic, organic models have edge loops very flowey , check my friend patrick website :


http://www3.sympatico.ca/psykopat , notice how he handles edgelooping , even on lowpoly models.

[Jedianakinsolo]

Looks good. Both portfolios :P I like the Starwars troopers on the CG one.

So, I've got my guy mostly mapped. It's all flattened, I just have to arrange it onto a square in an efficient manner. Should I skin this guy first? Or Animate him? If I skin him,well, he'll look cool. If I animate him, I get to find all of his faults, try to fix them, then I can redo the UVMapping to account for some modelling errors in V1.

But, there may be an advantage to skinning first. I dunno. Ben Mathis has his skinned before he animates, but he's also a professional and knows what he's doing.