How to make a game.

[Nappa]

Arius i cant see any of the pic you posted

[Arius]

Originally Posted by Nappa

Arius i cant see any of the pic you posted

Yea, unfortunately the host they were on is down, an has been down for a few weeks. I have a new host, but I haven't been able to get into contact with the host of the old one to regain my gallery.

[Arius]

I thought i'd post these here. Didn't really want to clutter the forum with a non-cg thread as such. These are from my editor, Mage, which I am currently developing. Its at version 10 and has been around for a while. Its going to be used for a sci-fi themed physics based FPS tech demo, I know, real original :P. The character models you see were bought from cubix studios apart from the big beast thing, that was created by a friend in zb2->maya. The environments( lol ), the cubes I should say, were done by me. All the texture work on them in the final 2 shots is mine. I've been learning ps . As you can see in the final shots, i'm slowly moving to a full DX based UI for fullscreen editing.

*click for 1280x1024*

(These are chronoligical development wise)

[Johny]

looks good ! but just because every title over uses specular bloom doesnt mean you should make the same mistake :P

[Arius]

Originally Posted by Johny

looks good ! but just because every title over uses specular bloom doesnt mean you should make the same mistake :P

:P

Can be enabled/disabled, and controlled using emissive maps.

[rts_gamedev]

Sorry to be a killer here, but you dont need to be programmer todo a game and there are many prototyping tools if you arent one. In fact, a single person project is most likly to fail. You need to make your game prior to implementing it .. that is, a clear and sharp gamedesign which brings forward the center points and interesting choices making up the game. This alone is a very demanding task.

The fag in the industry of game design is using the method of mark cerny and his myth busting approach to game design. I suggest you look up cernys 'myth vs method' to get some good clear idea of what is needed while developing your game.

I cant see from the postings in the mod teams that most of these clearly need game design knowledge as much of these dont have a clue of where they are heading.

Generally, if you are a novice experienced team (i presume thats why a thread like this is read), you need to write down everything possible within the bounderies put format by cerny. The more you write down, the more inconsistency can be eradicated and the more you learn the mindset of the team.

I would suggest people looking up "fullerton"'s gamedesign workshop book for additional ideas. its very low level writting and is rather interesting and helpfull.

But to people wanting to make a game, the bare minimum you need to write down before starting iterative preproduction exploration of ideas (seeking interesting choices and gameplay) would be to nail down 3xC's .. .Camera, Control and Charachter.

Camera: How is the view of the world
Control: How is basic navigation
Character: How do you control gameobjects ... what do you control etc etc (varies alot from gametype to gametype)

With above put in place, you have 'some' foundation for dreaming in same direction and can start iterativly approaching a gamedesign.

You start out with gamedesign, story and ideas which are very fuzzy and write them down to try to clearily understand the ideas yourself and share them among teams. Some novice people thing they have it all in thier head, but thats where you fail as team and thus shouldnt even try to engange in working with other people if you intend to develope the best ideas .. write down, share, critisize nad most of all play test as early as possible before your waste too much time on your idea.

If the idea is ****, fix it or kill it, dont protect it because its your own idea, work on it and find a way to generate interesting choices to the player playing it. To get to a reality check fast, its very feasible to prototype as early as possible, using feedback from testers outside your team. Its really a smash in the head when someone plays your 'wonder game'-idea prototype and dont like it because ideas is not working and maybe even controls are not logic, but rather this than wasting time on a broken idea!

In short, the key to geeting to a final gamedesign a game which you can 'sell' to others is to write base 3xC's down, and playtest a prototype while iterativly working on micro design document (preliminary docs) until you have game design that is internally complete. When prototype documents core gameplay works, you can up the scale of your project by making a full blown design doc (often known as macro design) and seek to finalize the game in a more traditional linear project management style.

However, if you have no trackrecord in the industry, you should be aware that ideas dont sell. Finished products do. The more finished the more likly it is you can get a deal as its all about reducing risk for distributors.

There is no game design selling without prototype, this is an era which ended, and even more so, there is no such thing as 'this _will_ be great'. Either your game is great or else you should work more on it. Its all about trust and its not trust worthy if people present little and promose much .. it should be other way around with the mind et of 'what you see is what you got'.

Last but not least, i would suggest that a project manager, weather employed in normal project or game developement should NOT be engaged with core technology or core problems of project as this will cloud his abbility to lead ! NEver let project be limited by your own skills .. broaden your mind.

anyways, cheers lads, this was just my personal thoughts.


Brian

ps. if your interested in joining a gamedev team, we look for skilled low poly designers for an ww2 rts engine. leave me a note.

[madmenno]

You people have a very nice project going on, keep it up!

Originally Posted by Hilm

3)You want to start a company u need to build a reputation, a good 2d game is a nice way to do this (eg blizzard made 2 2d games before trying 3d and when they did release 3d they were succesfull due to there reputation) And you have more chance of making a giid 2d game than u have of making a good 3d 1...

Blizzard made, WC1, WC2 and starcraft and diablo 1 and 2 wich where al 2D except for cinamatics. Now they own 2 3D games, Warcraft 3 and World of Warcraft. Naming blizzard is a very bad example for this, blizzard is a legend in korea. It helped boost the economy and people working there extremely dedicated to there work. Blizzard is the one company that will never come under the name of EA becaus of this dedication.

Another cool fact, you know if you work several years at blizzard you get a real sword and shield (blizzard style) and if you work even longer you'll get an fully working, fully sized armor .

[Deadmeat]

Personally, I quite like the 3dgamestudio A6 package - it's reasonably priced, and great to learn on. C-script in a simplified programming language. The model editor (MED) is useless but you can export from MAX, so all in all it ain't bad IMHO

[Inkybro]

Hey everyone.

I don't completely agree with your statements, lockdown. I understand the point you're trying to get across but you've made many false statements. You CAN make a game with knowledge of only one language, as long as the language is capable of making a game. Knowing other languages is ONLY a bonus.

Secondly, Java is hardly like BASIC. It uses a C/C++ syntax structure, with symbols instead of words. Big leap. From BASIC I'd suggest learning Visual Basic, and THEN moving on to C/C++ based languages (of course, there's no right way to learn languages, as long as you learn them).

Thirdly, you suggest learning Visual Basic thoroughly, as it's easier to make games in. This is true (I know Visual Basic very well), but there's a catch. Visual Basic is slow. It's a common fact. Don't get me wrong, you can program games in it, there have been games programmed in it, and I have programmed games in it that run just fine. On the hobbyist end it's a great language to program in, but your post seems to be fluctuating between two ambitions, a hobbyist lifestyle and a professional lifestyle. You suggest learning many languages because game companies see that as a plus, but what if someone just wants to throw a game together?

Once again, I understand the point you're making. Game programming isn't the easiest thing, but it definitely is NOT as hard as you make it out to seem. You can easily learn the necessary things in a year or two and be making games to learn new stuff along the way. I know this from experience.

I'm personally moving onto game coding in C/C++, as I do have ambitions to be a professional game developer, and this is the most widely accepted language amongst companies. For all the hobbyists, stick to what you like, make a game, be happy, share it, have fun. That's what it's all about.

[Inkybro]

Originally Posted by madmenno

You people have a very nice project going on, keep it up!



Blizzard made, WC1, WC2 and starcraft and diablo 1 and 2 wich where al 2D except for cinamatics. Now they own 2 3D games, Warcraft 3 and World of Warcraft. Naming blizzard is a very bad example for this, blizzard is a legend in korea. It helped boost the economy and people working there extremely dedicated to there work. Blizzard is the one company that will never come under the name of EA becaus of this dedication.

Another cool fact, you know if you work several years at blizzard you get a real sword and shield (blizzard style) and if you work even longer you'll get an fully working, fully sized armor .

Not to mention when Blizzard released many of their 2D games, 3D wasn't even a plausible medium.

[hyperkinetics]

Originally Posted by Deadmeat

Personally, I quite like the 3dgamestudio A6 package - it's reasonably priced, and great to learn on. C-script in a simplified programming language. The model editor (MED) is useless but you can export from MAX, so all in all it ain't bad IMHO

Last year Myself and a team of about 16 built a lan Multiplayer shooter called Exogenesis http://exo-genesis.studiokaboom.net/index.htm using this engine, It was a big group project for the course we were all enrolled in and in about 5 months we made 4 playable characters and one playable level. This engine is good, but it can be a real pain in the ass. e.g. the level of difficulty invovled in using bone animation was so high we gave up and went with vertex. the lighting sucked it would take multiple hours to make shadow for a building, and had serious problems with collision mesh's.
I wouldn't reccomend it for beginners,

recently in projects i do by myself i've been using torque which i'd say is good for beginners

[Nokill]

yes the Torque is pretty good for beginners sinds it has a pretty large comunity and people can help you on your way on the forums
also it keeps things simple you won't be able to make realy super games with it but you can learn a lot by using it

[Animaleante]

where can I find this torque program??

[DahWan]

hey everyboady... i want to start learning how to make games. that long speech in the start of the thread didnt mean much to me. i have intermediate modelling skills, i know how to create normal maps etc. i know how to texture objects ans stuff. but i know NADA about this languages you are talking about. is there any kind people here who would add me to msn and help me get into game making?

[MIFUNE]

First of all excuse me for my bad english.

My name´s Angel, and I´m the author of a Half-Life MOD: Zion Warcry, based upon the assault of the Zion city as seen in Matrix Revolutions.

For those who want to do a 3D game, I think it´s better to start doing a MOD of a pre-existant game, in fact, there are 3D games that are merely a well done MOD of another original game ( BlueShift, Opposing Force, Gunman Chronicles...).

The reason is:

Pre-existant games have ALL elements in a pack that work fine ( except some hiper-patched crap that already all of us know... ), games like Half-Life ( the best MOD-Friendly game ever done ) have its SDK made public, a lot of MODs are developed for it, MODs from where you can take a lot of elements ( remember that a MOD it´s (c) the MOD Team but, because of being done upon an original game , it cannot be purchased and also you´re allowed to modify what they have already modified of the original game... , don´t fear the lawyers )

So,instead of coding in C++ a new engine, tools for model editing, map building, etc. It´s better to take a game like it and start MODding it.

But, WARNING!!, first of all, you must KNOW the engine limitations, let me give you an example:

Half-Life's engine doesen´t deal well with large open areas, so don´t expect doing a world as seen in RPG games ( the ones played On-Line ).Texture size ( unless you re-code some parts ) is limited to 512x512 in models and brushes ( polys of a map ), model vertices are limited to 1800 altough someones have meshes composed by more than 3000 triangles .

Also you MUST have played it in ALL skill levels at least 10 or 20 times before trying to modify the SDK, Why?, well, the best you know how lights are done, monsters AI runs, weapons fire, maps are developed,etc. the better you can take the SDK and modify what you want.

Also you MUST have a very clear vision of the MOD you want to do, what are your skills before you´ll try to do so and what are the limits of the engine you'll use. I was only a mapper when I´d started, I was only able to modify skins ( with Adobe Photoshop ) and do maps ( I think I´m good ), then I wanted to make more complicated things, and started Zion Warcy without NO objective, No clues about coding, No Idea of modelling and, even if I payed HL 300 times, No knowledge of the HL Engine limitations...hey! I was a gamer, In my life I ever dreaded to make a full 3D game . I say this because, the MOD has 100% changed from the first version I´ve developed, only in 8 months, all because NOW I know what I want and the limitations. I started all without this and all that I did was crap, in fact, crap that didn´t work as it is intended to work...

I have had to learn how to model, animate, sound editing, mapping ( advanced ) , and learned the BASICS of C++ language, and still I´m a Noob even when I´d released Zion Warcry...

Aniway, believe me ( this theme is TOO WIDE and I´ve no time now ) try to MOD first, you´ll see that, with the things clear in your mind, and a little effort and organization, you´ll do the MOD-GAME of your Dreams.

If got questions...PM me, I´ll answer as soon as I can.

Bye!