Coming of the Ice General Discussion

[rocneasta]

hehe sorry but i didn't want to spam other posts with

anyone have a *hint* *spoiler* about the next topic... with my project closing to it's end i feed the 3D itch...

[Rachel vd M]

Dear 3DT staff,
sometimes i think SMC's should be clay/procedural materials only.
Mainly because there is a lot of skill difference in the texture production.

Also, even though it shouldn't count in voting,
because it is a public vote, i cant really trust everyone is just going to look away from the fully unwrapped/textured/normalmapped beautyshots.
They are indeed beautiful, and can really help to attract votes, especially for inexperienced people that don't fully understand the power of a few well placed textures.

Also, in theory, you could spend 240 min's on making a model, and 30 days on unwrapping and texuring. making it even harder for people with tight schedules.

Another argument would be that, people that are great texture painters wouldn't nessacarily be good modellers, and vice versa.
I suggest still allowing texturing in the WIP threads,
but excluding of textures in the final thread.

Maybe just limiting it to procedural material or clay renders.
That way it stays a pure speed modelling challenge.

a good alternative would be a texture contest, to be held with a one month delay of the SMC.
So people would still be able to enter their textured models in a different part of the contest.

Here is a good example of what a bit of decent texturing and post-production can achieve:

The 3rd and the 7th by Alex Roman
http://www.vimeo.com/7809605
And this is the breakdown, showing what textures contributed:
http://www.vimeo.com/8200251

Which brings me to a new challenge type suggestion:

The Virtual Photo Challenge
With the main goal of creating a photo-realistic image.

[ClassicGamer-3DT]

Your opinions will be taken into account and will be discussed with fellow mods as and when we can.

CG.

[anima3d]

Rachel vd M - so true ...

Back, long time ago i won SMC with a default gray matterial model and i have to say how i missed those days. It was just modeling and not Speed Post Production challenge :P

[hammering3D]

I don't like unwrapping, I actually hate to unwrap, I am so bad at texturing and don't have the patience to texture.
But I still like that the rules stay like they are, maybe in an week challenge it is nice just a modeling challenge with only clay models. But in a month challenge with many hours allowed for modeling I will become bored to see only clay models and to see so many great models just in clay.
And more of that I join the speed modeling to train myself and to see nice art not for the prizes, so I love seeing talented people do amazing texture jobs.

Other thing are the normal maps witch I like to not be accepted because they modify geometry and because it could transform the speed modeling in an hybrid low poly challenge and because is not fair for the people that spend so many time cutting in the mesh and keep it clean while they have smooth applied and others just have a low poly mesh then go in z-brush and add the extra details.

This are my feelings.

PS: I celebrating 5 years of 3dtotal and speed modeling such a great forum this is and nice challenges any way they are they are great.

[JAPO]

Hello

I dont like texturing and unwrapping. I am not good at it. BUT... I do like to create nice pictures. With having only one entry per challenge, I dont think texturing is that much of a burden. What I mean is, that if there is month to make the entry, and only one will be allowed to judging, then it really calls for texturing. If I am to make just one picture, let me make it proper. Make it optional, but keep it there

On the other hand, with public voting texturing becomes all the more important. If you were to eliminate all the external influence to public voting, speed modelling would have to have set format for submissions. How the clay should look, and how the wire should look.

But if I were to look for roots of this discussion, I would have to find one conflicting item. Public voting. When I look at it, its all about how to make the public voting as fair as possible by cutting the fun. So my contribution to this discussion would be... cut the public voting, keep the fun

[rocneasta]

I would like to make a gzillion personal entries per challenge - just so i can sharpen my skill while motivated and driven by others in the same work process

this however is not fair since person posting most models has a higher chance of winning if they aren't just rubbish

the same goes for textures if i'm to be asked - you can spend 30 days texturing your one model and win only because of that, extra effort of presentation you gave the audience

To solve this, public vote should seize to exist - mainly because it's influenced by bonds via forums, rl etc; public vote focuses mearly on textured models and feel of it; public vote doesn't bare in mind the RULES that certain models have to have in order to qualify (this happened already with a winning model)

on another hand i had to outsource my renderings since my computer couldn't handle it due to low memory... it's not something you would normally do, but i wanted to see the quality i could get with my first texturing job ever only because od 3dt's challenge. However i wish wireframe and clay was all it took to get things done, and texturing/presentation were after tha winners are announced

[hammering3D]

About public voting,
yes since the beginning of SMC I love the challenges because there was no public voting, so I wish to that public voting is gone. But then I don't wish like in the past to have the winer anounced after half of year .

[rocneasta]

the expectation was a killer, but the biggest thrill was watching CG announce challenge winners one after another. i skipped lunch that day!!!!

[Psycho Mantis]

about texturing: i´d also like to have it removed. the time you spend on texturing is minimum 2 times the time of your modelling, and maximum close to infinite

since those new smcs give you 4 hours modelling time, it became impossible for me to take part, because i dont have that time. if i have to spend another 10 hours for texturing and rendering... well i wont even start, cause it´s just impossible by my schedule. but i said that already once or twice...

if the public voting should be fair (so nobody is unfluenced by his relationship to other forum members) - then everyone should send his pic to the mod, and he sets up an anonymos gallery, and in the end the winner is announced.
but the workload for that seems to be too heavy. so, if there is public voting, it will never be 100% accurate.

why there shouldn´t be textures and normal maps: the original idea of the smc was "what kind of quality can you produce under pressure" and when you hava 60 minutes for moddeling, you just cant spend 2 hours of texturing afterwards, when you boss wants to see a result in 60 minutes.

i have seen lots of concepts by studios, that were made for movies. e.g. the dude from pixomondo showed his concepts he sent in to roland emmerich for 2010 - and it was just a wireframerecording from the viewport, how some buildings collapsed etc.
or the guy from scanline - the showed the studies they made for narnia: prince caspian... it was all clay!

there could be a texturing/rendering contest as rachel suggested. maybee with the models one created for a smc, or what i would like better - a given scene (that can be interoreted by various 3dapps) and everyone that takes part, textures and renderes the same scene. too see in the end, whats better. because the result of the voting is definitivily influenced by the topic.

[Tarik2d]

I havent actually completed a SMC challenge but ive done the others and not having the public vote sounds good. Would be good to get votes from people who are in no way conected to the entries or just like what happens for the top 5

[Freespace-3DT]

Anything to do with discussion about the February challenges.

[InTheClue]

Just listen to the people were in it just as much as you are :

mastein - IntheClue:
I agree with you in 1 point. The vote could be secret.
But not cuz someone else vote will influence other votes...
In my opinion, people have to "think with their own head".
If someone is really influenced by others vote, well....i´m sorry about then.

DE3MOHD - I agree with you. Voting is not fair and sometimes looking stupid.

Dront - I agree with you InTheClue. Remove the public vote even if it´s just an indication for the judges and change it so that it´s just a unbiased judging panel who decides.
This will also speed up the voting process.

berendey - mastein +1

anima3d - Since theres no other reason that bublic voting came, just to speed things up, i have to agree that changing the current system sounds good and fair enough.

Appr_oved - change the dam system plzz. yea its good for building skill but if voting is involved then have a good system, thats all.

Stoneking - Hey Longhi - After reading your post i felt like you are 100% right,
I've already saw this kind of thing in many forums around,
So my conclusion is, it is dificult to make the voting sistem perfect,
Popularity can even interfere in the non public votes, so it is dificult,
BTW: Many thanks for the kind words master, means a lot

Arteyo - I agree so much with IntheClue and Longhi there about the public voting system. I'm new to this forum and I'm not one of those popular ones here. I'm reading what others are saying about this popularity voting system being unfair and I have a feeling it seems true. this does seem to be a very unfair voting system. It seems people vote for people they know or friends with.I agree so much with IntheClue and Longhi there about the public voting system. I'm new to this forum and I'm not one of those popular ones here. I'm reading what others are saying about this popularity voting system being unfair and I have a feeling it seems true. this does seem to be a very unfair voting system. It seems people vote for people they know or friends with.

This should be about voting for an art work that you really like and not voting for something just because that person is your friend like some people are doing I noticed. I'm not saying everyone is doing this but I notice some are this way.

If I have like 10 artists friends here in the forum that can vote and I tell them to vote for me and they did just cause they are my friends. Think about how that would be unfair to you. That's all I gotta say about this.

This should be about voting for an art work that you really like and not voting for something just because that person is your friend like some people are doing I noticed. I'm not saying everyone is doing this but I notice some are this way.

If I have like 10 artists friends here in the forum that can vote and I tell them to vote for me and they did just cause they are my friends. Think about how that would be unfair to you. That's all I gotta say about this.

ChaosDragonDZ - You make a good point Clue, GA seems to have the best voting system for these contests. I like the anonymous system rather than posting who you vote for as it sometimes seems to start a a trend in the following votes

Tarik2d - I dont think their should be a public vote, just a judgin panel who has nothing to do with any of it

D R E A M N T - I am definitely with you.The voting here is down right discouraging to be honest.So much good work put to the back of the bus.
Definitely needs to be changed.

mafida - You are 100 percent right.

TerraBite - As for the voting, I've been reading and also have thought about the voting system here. I admire the work and beautiful entries you guys finished for this challenge, I'd really like to see some certain people win of course, but I feel that this open voting system is unfair. By not voting, I feel I'm not leaving anyone out that I feel deserved a place. If the voting system were private, I'd leave my opinion then, but until that's changed, I cannot vote. I can only hope by luck now that you guys will win! Especially those of you that pushed yourselves beyond to submit a wonderful piece. Luck to everyone, and hopefully meet you again at the next challenge.

[Volta]

To the 3DT staff...

Are there any plans of getting a 3D environment or scene challenge going in the future? I think it would be fantastic (says the newb)! The closest thing is Matte Painting and Digital Painting.

[rocneasta]

speaking of challenges since they are now pushed to one month, would it be possible to let's say make another test run of animation challenge. Even if the prizes were just 3D T-shirt (which is priceless) or a forum insignia until you can see if it's worth continuing...