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Old 17-01-2011, 07:45 PM   #61
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The problem is not that they dont take it down, the problem is there is too much data. So much data that is also wrongfully or code named, like some file called h5t99bc23x9hkd.rar will actually contain the 3dt material and is linked in some forum with the real name in the post. if you find a way to link the posts to the material (google has an algorithm for this) they will simply find another way.
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Old 17-01-2011, 09:50 PM   #62
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The problem is not that they dont take it down, the problem is there is too much data. So much data that is also wrongfully or code named, like some file called h5t99bc23x9hkd.rar will actually contain the 3dt material and is linked in some forum with the real name in the post. if you find a way to link the posts to the material (google has an algorithm for this) they will simply find another way.
could it be possible to target these forums, and report files - go all out for a month to show some initiative, give people a reason to think twice about uploading or to basically make it impossible to upload it to have it last on the different shares... i think it's worth a shot. i am willing to pursue this path perhaps some conclusions would come out of it
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Old 17-01-2011, 10:06 PM   #63
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could it be possible to target these forums, and report files - go all out for a month to show some initiative, give people a reason to think twice about uploading or to basically make it impossible to upload it to have it last on the different shares... i think it's worth a shot. i am willing to pursue this path perhaps some conclusions would come out of it
Whenever you find something of the sort, report the links. That will certainly help.
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Old 18-01-2011, 06:05 AM   #64
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proactive fighting of forums sounds horrible, do you really want to be that guy? I for one am not ratting anybody out. even if they would be pirating 3dt stuff. its up to 3dt to deal with it, not its members if you ask me. honestly you are thinking of targeting torrents one by one, by joining other forums, scanning them and so on so forth? how about private trackers, you wanna get an invite for those too? and rape them from the inside? its a horrible idea. just because you don't agree with their ways is no reason to infiltrate and ruin them. except for serious matters involving bodily harm. this attitude of hunting them down is disgusting. would you rat out drug users? squatters? or any of these kinds of petty crimes? these aren't the real criminals, the real criminals are the people saying software should cost 40.000 bucks for 1 unlimited license. don't you get it? 3dtotal should be the wiser one and offer their stuff for sale like everybody else but not hunt for people who are curious about what they have to offer. and seriously consider the alternative, use these readily available systems to your advantage... you cant stop this mass behavior of sharing thats what people do. if it wasn't for the companies music would be shared and only shared.

if you would go out, on your own to do just that rat people out get their IP's or even MAC adress and report them your nothing but a no good petty snitch. i can see someone telling on a rapist or a murderer or something aggravating but not this.

im not saying that i you stumble upon it you cant say 'hey you should have a look over there' but proactive searching for bootleggers of stuff thats not yours. yugh.

at first i thought i might had reacted to strongly to you predrag suka but your way of thinking truly disgusts me. and now your trying to use the information i give you to trace these people? you sir are gross. predrag stay in zagreb. autodesk author? you studied algebra. and you give gnomon classes, what the **** do you care if someone is pirating 3dt content? do you just want to get some recognition? let 3dtotal deal with this and stop trying to gain points by sucking up and or snitching. that goes for everyone... nobody likes a snitch, not even the people benefiting from him/her.
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Old 18-01-2011, 06:18 AM   #65
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you misunderstood me, i wasn't aiming to rat people out, but the files distributed themselves. if we can report at least 50% of the files out there and get them off the servers it's a step forwards.

I don't care about the people that are doing this, what possible gain is there to me, or to 3dt none. I was just saying if we cut the process down to size, perhaps people would get demotivated and just give it up with 3dt materials
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Old 18-01-2011, 06:40 AM   #66
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Very sorry to hear this, this is a one off case as usually our customer service is excellent as many will vouch for, products that are made for download are sent instantly and it sounds like yours is a special request such as a DVD that we usually only post. (fair comment though they should be made to download too so you can get them from us as quickly as you can get them from a torrent, so I will work to push this through and thank you for the feedback) To make up for you waiting I would like to compensate you with another DVD of your choice from our shop if you so wish. Also we don't work on Sat or Sun and delays can be exaggerated by time differences so asking a question on friday and getting a reply on monday can be expected. Emailing in is also quicker just so you know for future reference, forums aren't used much for customer support.

Thanks Tom
I must say that I was floored with your reply, that was not what I was expecting at all. I won't go into details as to why I needed it asap other then saying that I had some free time to spend on my hobby (game dev) which is a rare occurance, and I was quite eager to get the product I ordered. I guess my eagerness made me unreasonable in that I expected a quick reply to my mail. On the other hand, as you said yourself, the DVDs should definitely be made available for direct download after purchase (technically it is easy to do, and bandwidth is cheap these days, even for renting space on server clouds). I really hope you will start implementing this, but in the meantime I can live with what you already have.

Back to your reply, thank you for showing me the professionalism of true customer support. I would like to thank you for your offer, but I decline. Judging by your previews I think your products are worth purchasing, and doing so is both for my own gain (using them in my games) and for supporting you in the hope that you produce more.

As for the case in question, I've mailed Jo again as the DVD still haven't been made available, but I will show more patience
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Old 18-01-2011, 07:56 AM   #67
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you misunderstood me, i wasn't aiming to rat people out, but the files distributed themselves. if we can report at least 50% of the files out there and get them off the servers it's a step forwards.

I don't care about the people that are doing this, what possible gain is there to me, or to 3dt none. I was just saying if we cut the process down to size, perhaps people would get demotivated and just give it up with 3dt materials
well said and well done for keeping your cool whilst someone ranted directly at you, I think pretty much everyone else got what you meant from the start.
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Old 18-01-2011, 12:24 PM   #68
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I guess I'll stop sharing 3dt_entire_tutorial_collection.rar then. Sorry guys.

How about you sell more 3DT-clothing: t-shirts, bras etc. I mean, do you picture pirates scanning a "take me to your renderer" t-shirt and make it available for download? That wouldn't work, would it?
There is your new business plan.
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Old 18-01-2011, 12:28 PM   #69
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I mean, do you picture pirates scanning a "take me to your renderer" t-shirt and make it available for download?
Actually, that gives me an amazing idea. Brb, gotta buy scanner.
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Old 18-01-2011, 03:52 PM   #70
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Okay so what we have noticed in all of this debate is that the prime elements are basically availability and exclusivity...

So you basically can't compete with the sharing community and "the scene". What they suffer from though is how fast they get the files out on the web, that's what the scene is all about.
Thing is that once your content is prestigious and visible enough they will get it out almost as fast as it is released. Thing is a lot of people out there (in the cg community; hobbyists and professionals), especially newcomers who don't know what is a good tut or not, what programs to use and basically where to find it all. So what to do?
Do we make it even more secluded and exclusive or do we make it easier and available?

To do this and still make money out of it, and perhaps to make even more money, then one would need to give the community something special and combine that with low consumer costs, availability and finally something that retains that coolfactor.

So again what to do?
I would say that students (not just people studying at a university or high school but simply people who are getting into cg or want to learn more) would greatly appreciate some form of bundle. Something that gives you a bit of customization and at the same time a pretty broad open selection. Say that you take a bit of every starting out tutorial in each sector, some picks like "after you have read this you can choose these programs or divisions to learn more from" (like autodesk's student thingy).
This could be funded and co projected with the program developers as they want people to use their applications from the start as that in most cases means that they will continue using it...
Furthermore this would give more attention to the site as each bundle could contain a link to the forum and perhaps a preset custom tag (all with a nice little message). This would generate an influx of users, more work shown, an easier time for the users and in the end mean more publicity and thus more money for the site!



PS: This would make it a bit of a hype as well, branding basically, which can be furthered with the t-shirts, events and what not
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Old 18-01-2011, 05:21 PM   #71
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finally constructive comments :P

i think the amount of effort is equal to the anti piracy effort but this is actually effective. the harder you work to make you stuff difficult to crack the greater the bragging rights for cracking it. so counter attacking makes th beast stronger, instead of colliding with it you should use its power to your advantage.
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Old 18-01-2011, 08:33 PM   #72
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@Hula that is a really great suggestion
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finally constructive comments :P

i think the amount of effort is equal to the anti piracy effort but this is actually effective. the harder you work to make you stuff difficult to crack the greater the bragging rights for cracking it. so counter attacking makes th beast stronger, instead of colliding with it you should use its power to your advantage.
Well that and the anti-crack measures usually end up annoying the paying customers more than the pirates, just take Octane for example. The development came to a halt because the developer wanted to make the software hard to crack and if my memory don't fail me he even made it so that working offline is impossible.

Another one is cmiVFX where offline viewing is not possible either. Pirates came up with a way to download the video for offline viewing but the paying customers don't even have that opportunity.

Not trying to bash on anyone, I just mentioned some examples of overly paranoid companies.
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Old 18-01-2011, 08:40 PM   #73
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Hi, I don't know if it's the best place to bring up this or not, but do you think it's possible to share some insights on ways to prevent the piracy you speak of for folks that are thinking about selling digital contents online. Speaking about people illegally downloading your product directly off of your server is a bit scary. You mentioned you implemented programs from CA that prevent piracy. Is this something that smaller studios or individuals can get their hands on to prevent their assets from being stolen? I know once it's out, it's harder to control, but what are ways to prevent this from the start? Anyway, I just have to ask being not so knowledgeable of the subject. And I think sharing this knowledge will help protect more law abiding people.
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Old 18-01-2011, 09:09 PM   #74
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There's some good suggestions there hulahuga and I especially like the idea of a bundle of the first chapter or two of our ebooks for free, so like a sampler so for a full character modelling ebook, where they would get to make the head for example and then choose if they want to buy the rest for $10.

But with all the ideas posted so far to work along the pirates to make them happy, make it 100% free etc etc they all revolve around using sponsors to pay for our expenses instead of the customer and what everyone doesn't get is this is just incredible difficult to do. We do work very hard and make it work for all the website content but we also want to produce a whole range of products and expand your choices and our company, so make mags, video training, books both digital and printed too, and we are just asking people not to steal these products. If you only want free then search for the content that is offered for free there is a whole wealth of it out there without resorting to taking what is not offered for free.

I know that people like kees are actually trying to help underneath the rudeness and ranting and the ideas are appreciated, it's just you lack an understanding of the finances and cashflows involved in what we do that make your suggestions incredible difficult to do. Maybe they are possible for a business genius to solve but I'm afraid that is above my business skill level. So we are going to fight the piracy as our first option with whatever means we can use, then move onto other options if this fails. All the time whatever happens the web content, and resource libraries will remain free for all and will continue to grow as long as we can survive and flourish as a business too.

Tom
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Old 18-01-2011, 09:43 PM   #75
RHedendahl
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Might already been up, but the best would be to make everything easy. We all like have everything in of a sort in 1 place. Like Steam for games and Spotify for music.

So the best would be (might not the easiest for you guys) to make an program where you can buy/subscribe on stuff you like and have a "you own" tab/space with all the ebooks, mags and tutorials you have bought. And if you lost the something you had th file is in the cloud on the programs servers.

It would be amazing to have a nice looking program where you can find everything and don't be afraid of losing it. Best would be if all publishers of cg would be in a single place.
So you can find everything you might need there. Instead of jumping to different site and searching. People are lazy, make stuff simple and they will come.
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