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Old 02-09-2010, 10:05 PM   #61
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Yeah you are right I got held up by some "more lower poly stuff" But i'll have the lowpoly with normals by tomorrow.

I wish i could know more about cars, so i could say something useful but its just complex enough for me to shut up look great still
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:13 PM   #62
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No worry dude :-) I know nothing about cars, I am just fascinated by the technical look of the inner parts (like engine :-D ). I like the design too (mostly these 30s-50s cars), but rarely I see some car nowodays that catches my eye

Anyway, I am happy to announce that the hi-poly of the Tatra is finished. Whee!

Now I am going to create low-poly model. I decided to use two separate textures - one for engine+gear+wheels (1024x1024) and other for the rest (interior+exterior - 2048x2048). It will help me to preserve all details I want, so that the car could be viewed from all angles, with everything opened (as on image) and still looking good

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Old 08-09-2010, 12:14 AM   #63
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I have been somewhat wanting to play mafia 2, but heard mixed reviews on it.

I love the detail you tossed onto the car, and that you modeled in insides. The mobster is turning out great as well.
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:32 AM   #64
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Looks great! Very thorough work indeed... Let's see how the low poly turns out
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Old 08-09-2010, 09:26 PM   #65
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I am sorry guys for so long without any update or word - I was just feeling really sick, not able to do anything and when I was, I couldn't concetrate). Luckily, I am almost fit, so I can start pumping things out

And to start with something small, I made low-poly of the gear. As I said, I want to use two maps and one will go for this part. I will first unwrap and texture this part, since it's going to be a bitch and then I will do the rest

The polycount is 20 408, which is number I never achieved and I was terrified at first, but I read through few articles and found out that today technology can handle much more than before and poly limits aren't as tight as they were. Plus, I always planned to make this model highly detailed even at low-poly, so I guess it can be considered as something current/next gen :-) (hopefully I will achieve the quality of Mafia II models and textures)

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Old 09-09-2010, 03:22 AM   #66
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looks really coool!!!
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Old 09-09-2010, 10:35 AM   #67
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Looks cool thats for sure!
I'm wondering if its possible the make the cylinders use less edges on the sides. Maybe some more work left to the normal map wont hurt!

Could you link those articles? I'm wondering whats possible with the engines nowadays.
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:42 PM   #68
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This looks great. 20k seems pretty high for the undercarriage, unless this is a Gran Turismo racing game where the car is everything.

A few suggestions to optimize it some.
Silhouette is the most important thing for game art today. So, cylinders like the wheels need alot of sides to maintain a good round silhouette. However, there are alot of cylinders in this model that have no silhouette and yet have alot of sides. For example, the axles and driveshaft both appear to have about 16 sides. Here's a hint: Vertex normal interpolation will make the side of a 4-sided cylinder and a 64-sided cylinder appear almost exactly the same. So, if you cant see the end of a cylinder, it can be cut down alot.

Example:
One of these cylinders is 4-sided and the other is 64-sided. Can you tell which is which?







This is an extreme example. But the axles and driveshaft could easily be 6-8 sided with no problems.

Another place to reduce polys is "inside" the engine. There is a lot of detail underneath parts of the engine that no one will ever see. And if they do see it, it will probably be mostly black from your AO.

There are alot of other little spots where triangles can be reduced. None of them are going to save you alot, but when combined, i think you could cut 5k triangles pretty easily.
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Old 09-09-2010, 03:31 PM   #69
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Cordero: Thanks :-) I reduced some, but I payed most attention to the silhouette and there is no way around :-)

The articles - well, none specific, but I was going through polycount threads and most of people were saying that polycount isn't as important as texture size. Nowoday hardware can handle hundrends of thousands tris without much affection on FPS. Texture size and post process are things that affects FPS the most.

Also I recently saw a gun here on 3D total, labeled as next-gen, having 20k tris. At first I was wtf!, but it's probably not a big deal these days. That's why I am not afraid of doing full car, with everything openable and animable. But of course, still I am trying to get as low as possible :-)

Buzzy: Hey, thanks for tips and pointing out, they helped me. As you can see, I reducted the polycount to 16 707 tris. It's not those 5k you were talking about, but I am not really sure where I can save more. I attached new wireframe, maybe you can find something more

I am slowly preparing for unwrapping and was thinking of using some new unwrap tool. Do you know some good plugin? I have seen few, but can't remember their name

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Old 09-09-2010, 04:01 PM   #70
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Yeah, I wouldn't get too hung up on poly counts. As you mentioned before, modern game engines can really handle alot of triangles. I wouldn't worry about getting it much lower than what you have. It looks great.

For unwrapping, I've always done all of my unwrapping in Max. I've never really seen a reason to go to anything else. It has a good set of relax tools, which when combined with soft selection and pelt mapping, is generally all i ever need for characters.
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Old 09-09-2010, 05:17 PM   #71
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Zlatovous: Keep up the amazing work. I agree with Buzzy that Max has some great unwrap tools, however, I find Headus UVLayout to be an incredible tool. (www.uvlayout.com). The trial version is great and you can keep re-installing the new trial each month, little annoying but free. Give it a go and if you like it, and if you have the funds I'd highly recommend picking it up.

I bought a full copy just after DomWar last year and I use it almost exclusively. The only time I don't use it is for super low poly work, cause there is really no need.

Looking forward to seeing more.

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Old 12-09-2010, 07:22 PM   #72
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Cool Zlat! Its nice that you managed to reduce the polycount a bit.

I'm currently messing with the normal / ao baking, and I ran into a problem, I can't solve.

What the problem is, that if I zoom out, a black seam appears (right where the uvw seam is) but if I zoom in, it vanishes.
And somehow my print screen button doesn't work so I can't post any pictures.

It appears both in normal max material, and with the Xoliul shader.
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Old 13-09-2010, 08:41 AM   #73
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@Zlatovous:
The Vehicle looks great, some awesome modeling skills you've got there.

@Cordero:

Correct me if i'm wrong but I think the black seams appear due to mip-mapping. If you zoom out the texture is scaled down, because the model itself is smaller, and not so much detail is needed. This saves processor time and allows the model to be rendered more quickly.

Made a pic to describe what i mean. It also shows, why you get black seams at your UV seams.




In Max there is a option in the Render to Texture Dialog box called Padding.
It adds pixels around your UV Shells, this will help to solve your problem.
Increase the number to add more pixels around your shells.



hope this helps, and keep up the awesome work.
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Old 13-09-2010, 10:33 AM   #74
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Awesome! Thanks for the help.
I'll try it out after I find all the normal and ao problems, so I only have to rebake once.
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Old 13-09-2010, 01:57 PM   #75
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Great explanation Smoke91! That's exactly what causes it.

Flaming Pear also has a free photoshop plugin called "Solidify C" which will help with those black seams. You can use it to fill in all of the blank space around your UVs.
http://www.flamingpear.com/dl/freebies.zip
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