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Old 07-08-2006, 06:18 AM   #31
Marty_McFly-3DT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkBoost
I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from re. fancy renders. If clay models are what you are looking for then this should be advised in the competition rules as like myself I was not aware of this...
Nah... it's not necessary. Clay renders are not required... and they don't get special treatment either... it's just a preference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freek
Personally I spend the time on lighting and materials to get more experience there aswell. I really am starting to grasp mental ray better becuase of it. ...
Which exactly why we allow all the time in the world for texturing. The more you learn... the better!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClassicGamer
I myself feel personlly that it's ll getting a little out of hand and a little off topic of late ...
Which is why I'd rather they discuss questions here and not in the challenge threads.

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Old 07-08-2006, 07:38 AM   #32
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Just a question, can i for example, submit my entry, and (not counting as a entry) put some links for a full textured version, so people who liked my piece can enjoy it fully textured, and people who do the judgement can see a clearly clay render?
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Old 07-08-2006, 08:35 AM   #33
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Absolutely. There's nothing wrong with that at all!

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Old 07-08-2006, 06:26 PM   #34
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Speed Animation - Gold: Winner of a speed animation challenge! - Issue reason: For Excellence in Speed Animation Speed Animation - Gold: Winner of a speed animation challenge! - Issue reason: For Excellence in Speed Animation Speed Animation - Gold: Winner of a speed animation challenge! - Issue reason: For Excellence in Speed Animation 
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I'm sorry Marty, I do not mean to be so picky or play the martyr but I feel that you are making some major changes to the guidelines without clearly defining them on the main page - it may be also a language issue and i did not understand but it is clear here:
__________________________________________________ ____________
5, Post only one image submission per entry which must be no larger than 800x600 pixels in either landscape or portrait format with a file size of no more than 100k. These images must be uploaded to our servers using the "browse" button on the forum reply page. Do not link to external images Files. larger than the maximum size or posts containing links to external images (other than for reference materials) will be removed and the poster disqualified
__________________________________________________ ____________

and <non-entries> are not wished to be seen in the SMC pages thats why there are WIP and Finished Projects pages...........a lot of entries have been DQ'd in the past for some of these reasons and a lot of members argued tooth and nail with Andy and Black over these very issues.............

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Old 07-08-2006, 08:46 PM   #35
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Sorry Diabolos... but it is a language misunderstanding.

Do not link to external images files. This means, do not make an entry and upload it to a server and then link it here in the challenges with "[img]" tags. That's what is meant by not linking to external images. This was a rule set by Andy a long time ago so we won't have a bunch of posts that are missing images when people change servers, or their images are deleted by a temporary service. So don't worry... I am making no major changes to the guidelines at all.

Now, let's say you make a model... make a clay render and submit it to the challenge. Then you decide to make a fancy render of that same model. There is nothing wrong with putting that model in the Final Completed 3D Artwork or the WIP sections or even uploading it to your own webspace and then linking to it in your entry. As long as you are not posting it in the challenge itself... everything is ok.

I hope this clears things up a bit.

Edit: I just noticed that in rule 5 it also says: Larger than the maximum size or posts containing links to external images (other than for reference materials) will be removed and the poster disqualified.

But... I will revamp that. I'm not sure when that came into effect... although it may have been there from the start... Either way... that part I will fix.

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Last edited by Marty_McFly-3DT; 07-08-2006 at 09:18 PM..
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Old 07-08-2006, 09:48 PM   #36
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Ok, but I just always thought that andy and black still considered that a double post, only while the challenge is running, after the challenge it didn't matter of course - but thanks for clearing that up.

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Old 08-08-2006, 06:15 AM   #37
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Ah, but though you say it is not an issue, it 'is' an issue to some extent when model is represented being textured or not. Alot of the winning models I've seen are textured and have quite good renders, only few actually seem to be clay model renders. I am definetly not saying they have not been reviewed fairly, they have, they are good models, but a textured model, so far, often wins over a clay model of the same quality.

For example, the rocket backbag competition. Alot of great entries, great models, but the two that ended up in gallery are both very detailed texture and material renders, while some great clay models as far as modelling technique goes, like evil-98 one (certainly better 'model' than one of the two winners I doubt anyone would really argue), cannot achieve the top spot without neat textures and materials.

This makes it sort-of a requirement to have any better chance at the competition. Though critiques praise for going with clay render, it will not win. Which means that textures are quite a 'bonus boost' as far as review score goes, even though reviewer might say it doesn't affect the result. Even if subconciously, it does. It is evident from many of the threads I checked through from the recent two forum pages.

As you yourself said, textures are quite good at hiding modelling flaws in modelling competition. So why is it not a requirement to post clay renders and, if one wishes, have textured image as a separate link? As long as simulating work environment with this competition goes, having a week to texture and render it is compeltely out of that environment. Definetly out of that 'speed' and hurried situation. It ends up artist representing an hour work on modelling and hours more, up to week, on texturing and lighting, even environment.

It just seems weird. In my book modelling competition should be on 'neutral grounds' and about modelling, without textures and such hiding models features. Not to say textures should not be allowed, but there should be clay renders as the main entry, and textured image, if artist so desires, as a side-addition with a link.

If the competition 'is' about "to simulate a "real world" environment, working on a project and asked to show a concept model you'll need to be able to get somewhere near the target in the allocated time", then according to this, textures and materials out of that timeframe and deadline have no place in the main submission to the competition.

Of course that's just my opinion, this just confused me a bit. Probably I'm just attached too much to what other forums consider 'speed modelling', and a new guy here asking those questions must seem like crazy, but hey.

I am crazy.

Anyways, I'm enjoying the new challenge. Some good entries there so far, creativity and modelling wise.

Last edited by KV99; 08-08-2006 at 06:29 AM..
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Old 08-08-2006, 06:31 AM   #38
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Well... the galleries are full of textured renders because if you take a look... not many entries consist of clay renders. Textured renders do not have any advantage over clay renders when it comes to judging... trust me.

Also, although textures may hide "flaws"... do you not think we take that into account when judging? As I stated, a pretty render doesn't make an average model, above average. Also... I've to actually see someone spend a whole week on texturing... I just used that as an example.

But.... your suggestion will be taken into account.... it will take some behind the scenes action before some like a "clay renders" only rule is enforced.

Marty
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Old 08-08-2006, 03:02 PM   #39
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Thank you for the reply
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Old 11-08-2006, 02:14 PM   #40
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would be nice to have some indication of what the criteria for judging actually is, many entries that win although good models in my opinion are no better or even not as good as some other entries or better than some of mines, and whilst practise makes you better if you don't actually know why entry A beat entry B and maybe you're entry you have very little chance oof ever getting good enough to win a competition becuase you don't know what you are doing "wrong", there have been many weeks i have looked at the entries and looked at the winners and though huh how and why are they better than this or that, why has that one beaten mine when in my opinion mine is better, so is there any way you "the judges" can give us "the contestants" an indication of what you are looking for in a model ? sorry if this is off topic and in the wrong the place.
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Old 08-09-2006, 10:03 PM   #41
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So... my final question in this discussion... Are allowed wire renders?
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Old 08-09-2006, 10:15 PM   #42
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Read post #17.



Marty
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Old 08-09-2006, 10:49 PM   #43
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Well, I don't speak english too well (and I am not alone) so I expected some yes/no answer, but from your sentence "In the end, just make sure it's a sceenshot" I guess NO.
Just for sure: If anyone post with wire renderer now, he will be DQ. Right?

Thanks for your patience .
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Old 08-09-2006, 11:26 PM   #44
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Yes, you are correct. Anyone with renders of a wireframe, or a wireframe that is difficult to see will be DQ'd. (You're English is pretty good also.)

Marty
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Old 10-09-2006, 01:07 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty_McFly-3DT
Yes, you are correct. Anyone with renders of a wireframe, or a wireframe that is difficult to see will be DQ'd. (You're English is pretty good also.)

Marty
well, Marty, please don't think I'm simple minded... I was asking so stupidly because I see still many wire renderers in the challenge (and it was my demonic plan how to ged out of the game R3D, ClassicGamer and other modelers with much better models than I have! Allright I know i should not get it so serious ) Now I see, that my plan, how to insure before ClassicGamer's win, failed again! time to face it...I'm giving up myself. There is nothing how can I stop you now, Congrats ClassicGamer

(please don't get serious nothing what I said, I'm MAD! )
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