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Old 17-04-2017, 02:21 AM   #1
asdronin
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Issue in UW after applying smoothing if skin is in stack

Hi all,
Im using 3DS Max 7 (I cant afford getting other version also it feels really confortable, please understand) and I have a certain issue with a character, it has UW coordinates set and map is perfect, then I applied skin, assigned weights etc and while its not totally tweaked (it takes me a lot to paint weights) I check how it looks with meshsmooth or turbosmooth, most of times it looks good like that, but this time I found the UW coordinate of certain face got bad and off-place making a triangle look black (background of map is black) and manual fix make it look odd, surprisingly I could collapse all the stack and then directly over edit mesh apply meshsmooth and it works but I need the skin modifier of course, I think I can live without the smoothing, but I would like to know if there is a certain known fix for this kind of trouble, I stumbled to similar situation long time ago and I think I just found a workaround. Thanks for any help beforehand =).

PS Forgot to add that I tried in a friends 3DS Max 2017 and problem is the same
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Old 18-04-2017, 11:39 AM   #2
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That's a bit odd, skin shouldn't be affecting UVs. Are you sure it's not a duplicate face or something similar?

Also, is the glitch visible when rendering? The viewport display of meshes does tend to screw up in max once in a while, but usually just adding an edit poly modifier on top fixes those.

In worst case scenario, you can have unwrap uwv modifier on top of skin if you want, the two don't conflict, since skin only deforms geometry while unwrap only edits UVs.
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asdronin (24-04-2017)
Old 19-04-2017, 08:52 PM   #3
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Sorry I think I posted the reply yesterday but maybe browser crashed and it was not posted.

Well first of all thanks a lot for your help Insect, the ideas of placing unwrap on top of skin didnt work, it should have worked but it didnt work dont know why. Also the effect is visible in viewport and render too, and there is not hidden or dissconnected faces, I tried that and there were none like that, but as you said it was a good idea, many times it causes strange results.

The overal thing seems to be in a quqad that got split in the moment of unwrapping and later when meshsmooth is applied each triangle becomes a quad and one vertex fall off the expected area in the map, I know its senseless as this has been working always like that and with no trouble but somehow here causes that, I have screenshots before and after applying smoothing havin unwrap on top of skin if that helps, but maybe I cant post them right now being a new user still.

Im open to any new ideas, Im a bit lost, as said I could go on without smooth this time but it would be cool to know what happened here and how to go around the issue.
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Old 23-04-2017, 05:03 AM   #4
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maybe an extra vertex or a vertex that is not welded. try hitting remove unused vertex
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Old 24-04-2017, 01:43 AM   #5
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Thanks Tyree, you mean "Remove isolated vertex"? I only found that, well I hit that and the ammount of vertexes remain the same, however its strange... I applied Edit Poly just under Skin in the stack and the black triangle appeared there, before I had Edit Mesh instead and triangle was not visible, then being it before skin means its probably bugged in the UW maybe, actually I managed to have the lowpoly with no skin and the black triangle then its not about skin but I thought it was ok to convert to edit mesh and apply skin on it, was it wrong? I mean I use edit poly many times but when I have to collapse the stack I tend to convert to editable mesh instead of editable poly so I wonder if thats a mistake somehow
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Old 24-04-2017, 06:07 PM   #6
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your better off using edit poly. instead of mesh. mesh is there for legacy reasons. try going into vertex sub object. selecting all the vertices control plus a. then remove isolated vertex. if this is just an unwrap problem. turn off the unwrap or delete and do another one
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Old 24-04-2017, 11:43 PM   #7
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Thanks Tyree =), well it will take me some time to rebuild this until a point before I applied the unwrap, but will do as you said and update when its finally fixed (tomorrow surely). And on the EditMesh issue... then are you telling me that Editmesh could be the cause of all this? I thought it was almost the same as EditPoly just it has less functionality in some areas but also I find some advantages in using it, then maybe I could use EditMesh only on these particular tasks I tend to find it handy but when I have to collapse always do it to editable poly as you said
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Old 25-04-2017, 07:23 PM   #8
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mesh tends to be triangles. I may be the only one here that builds everything from splines, patches or nurbs. why its faster, I convert the object to polygon once I am thru. I edit as a polygon
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Old 26-04-2017, 05:02 AM   #9
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Thanks a lot Tyree, you solved the trouble perfectly, I converted to EditPoly then rebuilt the UV and applied skin over it, and it looks perfect now (so the trouble was EditMesh then), in fact studying the area the quad that before was split in two tris now is a quad in the UV but forgetting inner details the result is perfect now, and even applying smooth on skin it looks good too, so it was as you said, thanks a lot =).

Speaking about your method, I think you sound like a wise person and modeller so Im sure modelling like you said its faster, I have to confess that I only use splines or patches from time to time and on very specific type of objects, not only revolution objects but other types too of course with loft mainly but I will consider your method and see if I can addapt to model like you said, thanks for mentioning this too =).
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Old 28-04-2017, 07:13 PM   #10
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you have most likely never seen one. so I will show one. here is a patch head, took 15 minutes. I go straight to head shape with a single spline. the whole head is made from that single spline takes a minute. the rest of the time is adding eye, lips and nose. since this is a loose object you can adjust the shape. to whatever you want it to be.
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Old 29-04-2017, 01:41 PM   #11
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Awesome, thanks for showing, I never thought it could be like that, really fast method indeed, I will try to learn that to speed my workflow, seems like you can get a fast shape with just one spline, I read long time ago about a guy (at Comet Studios maybe, memory is weak) who used to make face with a combination of several lines, unfortunately the version he said he was using was different from mine and I couldnt find the right way to incorporate this knowledge but almost surely is the same method you use as it was also really fast to obtain the whole face
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