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Old 03-07-2011, 01:48 PM   #31
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true.. the cost of living is better in the uk...

but at the same time.. if the people in europe where it dont cost a lot to live.. were earning UK prices... lets face it.. it would have a positive effect on their community.. as all of a sudden their salaries would jump for not a lot to squat loads..
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:56 PM   #32
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Living in the Netherlands isn't cheap either. And I don't only have to support myself, but have to take care of my wife and daughter also.
And isn't it a fair and normal thing to do to ask for the money where you have studied for for years? And you have to pay for the programs somehow, don't you?

Really, I wonder how people on bidding sites agree to do things for $200,- and manage to work with expensive 2D and 3D programs. And by that I mean, how did they ever pay for such software, besides the fact that they also have to live and eat.
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Old 03-07-2011, 11:54 PM   #33
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indeed. the start-up costs are just so freakin high. i think the amount of money you would ask per job/hour should be based on your skill. if you're good, you cost more. it's that simple, imho.

for example, a friend of mine worked at a company where they would charge €90 per hour for his work. he would keep something like 25 or 30 and the rest would be used for the company. and not to be harsh towards him or anything, but he isnt the world's greatest 3d artist.

what i'm trying to say is, you should easily be able to ask 20 to 30 per hour as a good artist.

the cost of that car example would be 640 to 960 euro's. sure, that might be a lot, but it's either that or a crappy model. make sure to inform your client why the costs are that high(licences, food etc). so yeah, im gonna stop rambling, since you prolly already know all this and i'm really tired
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:45 AM   #34
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thats where you get into the relms of what makes a good artist..

but i totally agree with both of ya..
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Old 04-07-2011, 01:24 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil_F01 View Post
but i do appreciate everyone coming along and having an opinion on the subject...
Thanks.
I appreciate everyone opinion too, no matter if I agreed, or no.

However, I always gets myself confused when looking in the treads like this.
For Gods sake! You live in the UK. How's that you can't find some, even small studio, and get salary better then Freelancing?
I mean.. man.. try to live in some of the post-communist east Europe country, where 3D is still science fiction. Only several studios, that mostly employ people on strictly defined period. And again, it's not a certain thing that you will get payed. Even law can't help you, because processes in the court for even simplest charges can go up to 2-3 years, and pretty much everything is corrupted.

That's why I am doing Freelancing. Why are you doing it? I have no clue.


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Really, I wonder how people on bidding sites agree to do things for $200,- and manage to work with expensive 2D and 3D programs. And by that I mean, how did they ever pay for such software, besides the fact that they also have to live and eat.
They don't.
Pull your head out of the sand Nukie (no offense mate).
I will never approve using pirate software if anyone can afford it. However, to get you started, how much you think someone should work (and never spare a cent from the work) in order to buy, for example, 3DS Max?
Let's say, 3DS Max is 4000 euros. In Serbia, average salary is about 300 euros per month. So, 4000/300=13 month of work, without buying anything else.
However, Serbia is not that pirated, not much then everybody else, but look at the India for example. People work.. I don't know... for 30$ per months, for examle. How someone can afford original software to get him started?
Ofcourse, if someone made money from the software he use, he should, no doubt, pay for the software, and many people I know, buyed the original software once they made money with the pirate software. And I think that's Ok, because, otherwise, they would never buy the software. They would never do what they like.
I don't hate people from India (neither I hate anyone), but they are mostly responsible for the price down in Freelance marketing. It's a bad thing, for sure, but it's also something you gotta accept, and go forward.
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Old 04-07-2011, 01:41 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobi View Post
Thanks.
I appreciate everyone opinion too, no matter if I agreed, or no.

However, I always gets myself confused when looking in the treads like this.
For Gods sake! You live in the UK. How's that you can't find some, even small studio, and get salary better then Freelancing?
I mean.. man.. try to live in some of the post-communist east Europe country, where 3D is still science fiction. Only several studios, that mostly employ people on strictly defined period. And again, it's not a certain thing that you will get payed. Even law can't help you, because processes in the court for even simplest charges can go up to 2-3 years, and pretty much everything is corrupted.

That's why I am doing Freelancing. Why are you doing it? I have no clue.

me.. why i'm freelancing... first i can work from home.. second i can pick it up and put it down as i please.. and third.. i have had no amounts of problems getting work.. since being diagnosed with scitzophrenia.. its seems people just dont wanna sit next to a scitzo in the office...

they say i'm not allowed to discriminate.. and call coloured people this or that.. or women this or that.. or idiots this or that... but it seems that as soon as the term scitzo comes out.. its all fine and dandy..
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Old 04-07-2011, 01:55 PM   #37
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Sorry to hear that, mate.
If it means, anything to you, I wouldn't mind working at the same office you do.

Cheers!
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Old 04-07-2011, 02:18 PM   #38
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cheers
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Old 05-07-2011, 12:39 AM   #39
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box, label, blargh. stupid people. who needs em
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Old 05-07-2011, 09:36 PM   #40
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They don't.
Pull your head out of the sand Nukie (no offense mate).
I'm not offended . Of course I know they don't do that (heck. They have almost every program in their portfolio that I know of while I am already glad I can buy myself a copy of 3DS Max and the Adobe products). I just don't understand why companies hire these guys from bidding sites, except that they have a product for not so much money, while on the other hand I read on other CG forums that other (more expensive) artists receive the products that are produced for little money in other countries, to fix all the problems. And in the end they pay sometimes more than if they had hired that person in the first place.

It just annoys me, and I know I shouldn't have to bother about it. I have my projects, my clients and I can provide for me and my family. So I am not complaining. I just don't get it.

Why I am freelancing?
Because I always wanted to be independent. Do the things my way, don't worry about other people (except my clients off course). And in stead of making another fellow rich by working for him, I rather work for myself.
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Old 06-07-2011, 03:21 AM   #41
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I'm not offended . Of course I know they don't do that (heck. They have almost every program in their portfolio that I know of while I am already glad I can buy myself a copy of 3DS Max and the Adobe products). I just don't understand why companies hire these guys from bidding sites, except that they have a product for not so much money, while on the other hand I read on other CG forums that other (more expensive) artists receive the products that are produced for little money in other countries, to fix all the problems. And in the end they pay sometimes more than if they had hired that person in the first place.
Simple.
Most clients don't wanna bother with that things.
It look cheaper? Take cheaper!
That's the whole filosofy.

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It just annoys me, and I know I shouldn't have to bother about it. I have my projects, my clients and I can provide for me and my family. So I am not complaining. I just don't get it.
Again, no offence, but personaly, for me, looks like the most kind of you "westerns (or, in your case.. northerns))" are just spoiled. Man. Neitherlands. I bet I know more of your history, then you know of mine. It's a great country. Civilized. The origin of Vikings. Pagan culture!
You have the all of the opportunity to make success in your life. You have schools, studios, place to begin, place to finish... and you're still complain?
As I've said, you're just being spoiled.


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Why I am freelancing?
Because I always wanted to be independent. Do the things my way, don't worry about other people (except my clients off course). And in stead of making another fellow rich by working for him, I rather work for myself.
I don't want to be independent.
I wanna work for the guy, for the fellow that got himself rich, and I won't complain as soon as I have money just for simple life. The life, when I don't feel rich when I am going to the sea, once a year.

Hope you grab my point.
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Old 06-07-2011, 08:40 PM   #42
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I get your point .

And yes. We are spoiled. We have everything we need and more. And believe me. I don't think its a good thing.
Civilized? Not so much. People ignore each other. People don't talk to much to strangers. Life is inside the house here, between the four walls that make them feel save. And that is because we are a spoiled country. Spoiled enough to thing that the only ones that matters are themselves.

I am not apologizing for the fact that I know is true. I am born here. I don't know any better. Can't help it, thats just the way it is. Fact is also that I have to provide a living for me and my family and I can not do that if I receive only $200,- for a job that is worth over a $1000,-. I know what I am worth. I want to be paid accordingly.
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Old 07-07-2011, 12:50 PM   #43
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I get your point .

And yes. We are spoiled. We have everything we need and more. And believe me. I don't think its a good thing.
Civilized? Not so much. People ignore each other. People don't talk to much to strangers. Life is inside the house here, between the four walls that make them feel save. And that is because we are a spoiled country. Spoiled enough to thing that the only ones that matters are themselves.
Yeah, I've heard about that, and that the people are not too relaxed and socialized, as it should be. It's not like that in the southern countries. People here are pretty emotionally involved between them self (maybe too personally), and they pretty much share every good or bad things with the friends, or neighbors, or family.

Quote:
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I am not apologizing for the fact that I know is true. I am born here. I don't know any better. Can't help it, thats just the way it is. Fact is also that I have to provide a living for me and my family and I can not do that if I receive only $200,- for a job that is worth over a $1000,-. I know what I am worth. I want to be paid accordingly.
I never said you should work for 200$
I don't work either, and I get pretty hi prices for the work I do. Very reasonable prices, even for westerns. Notice, that I am still not very good in 3D, and you'll understand that I even get better prices then the work I deliver deserves (imho).
I was just pointing that it is the market.
If someone want something for 5$, and he get's it for a 5$, then it worth 5$.
Simple as that.
And I was pointing that some people just have no choice, then to accept it. And I was trying to explain the overuse of pirated software.

Sorry about "spoiled", I've not meant anything rude, it's just my poor english, and I didn't find similar (but less rude) word to describe.
I gotta lots of friends from northern-western countries, and they're not spoiled at all. I was pointing on rather "bigger picture", then individual, neither I wanted to address you personally.

Cheers mate!
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Old 07-07-2011, 01:10 PM   #44
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Ultimately the job is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. It might be worth $1000 of your time but if they only want to pay $200 then that's all the job is worth. Yes it sucks, but that's the way things go. You can always try to make money in other ways with your models such as getting them on to a model selling site (Turbosquid sucks but at least it's popular) or getting them on to a 3d printing retail site (Shapeways for example) and try to make extra money that way

Of course, explaining to a potential customer exactly what they will get for $200 is another option and it can lead to a conversation along the lines of "if you want these extras then this is the cost per extra" giving them the option to relax their full design requirements with an increase in the base cost that both you and the customer find to be a reasonable amount. If someone wants to do the whole thing for $200 then you will still lose out on getting the customer but at least you know they will be getting something that sucks and you might pick up money from them later for fixing the shoddy job or for the next project they need down the line
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:09 PM   #45
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im gonna have to jump in and rant a little too...all i have to say is **** THE POLICE! ( like the clients trying to pay least ammount possible. )
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